READINGS ON EZEKIEL (6)
[p. 261] READINGS ON EZEKIEL (6)
Ezekiel 28:11-19; Ezekiel 28:25,26; Ezekiel 29: 21
JT The verses read at the end of chapter 28, and the verse read at the end of chapter 29 show how the people of God are in the mind of God in the midst of all these judgments. What is suggested in these readings that we should look for, is not simply prophetic things relating to future events, but the bearing of the Scriptures on ourselves. So that these nations would correspond with the area which at the present time is being affected by the light of the gospel. The nations mentioned here in chapters 25 to 32 were either on Israel’s territory or within the radius of its influence. Ammon, Moab, Edom, the Philistines, Tyre, Zidon and Egypt, were either related to Israel by blood, or by their immediate proximity to them. They therefore had a great advantage over other parts of the earth; but instead of profiting by this, and being grateful for the gain accruing to them, they were severally hostile to Israel, the Lord’s people, and so come in for special judgments.
AFM Their hostility became the occasion of divine judgment?
JT I think that is what is stated. It says in chapter 25: 3 in regard to Ammon, “Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Because thou saidst, Aha, against my sanctuary, when it was profaned; and against the land of Israel, when it was made desolate; and against the house of Judah, when they went into captivity”. Then in verse 6, “Because thou hast clapped the hands, and stamped with the feet, and rejoiced with all the despite of thy soul against the land of Israel”. Then as to Moab, it says in verse 8, “Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Because Moab and [p. 262] Seir do say, Behold, the house of Judah is like unto all the nations”, etc. Of Edom, in verse 12, it says, “Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Because Edom hath dealt against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and hath made himself very guilty, and revenged himself upon them, therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah: I will also stretch out my hand upon Edom; and will cut off man and beast from it”, etc. In verse 15, it says of the Philistines, “Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Because the Philistines have dealt by revenge, and have taken vengeance with despite of soul, to destroy, from old hatred; therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I stretch out my hands upon the Philistines, and I will cut off the Kerethites, and cause the remnant of the seacoast to perish”.
FL I thought that in the features of these countries brought under judgment: Ammon, Moab, Edom, Philistia, Egypt, Assyria, Tyre and Zidon, that in those features we find characteristics which are affecting Christendom at the present time, and its moral characteristics come out in each of those mentioned.
JT Well, I think that is the truth. The part of the world that has been affected by the gospel is specially responsible. There have been, I suppose, those features of human pride, etc., which have acted against the people of God.
FL So that each one of these would refer to some characteristic which is discernable, do you think?
JT I think so.
FL We might get help in seeing what those features are, such as are seen in Moab, Edom, Ammon, etc.
JT Moab, Ammon, and Edom, I suppose, may have reference to features in Christendom which are more intimately related with those that are true;
[p. 263] Tyre would represent the world in its general features as developed in commerce, reaching up to the god of this world; Egypt would be the world in a general way as the place of human resources; but there can be no doubt that Ammon, Moab and Edom correspond with certain features in Christendom that are more intimately related with the people of God.
FL I thought in discerning that, it would seem as though these things were the traits which affected the present world under the god of it, who is portrayed in the king of Tyre. All those features are things to which we are susceptible.
BTF Would you say that the great point is for Christians to be aware of the principles which are represented in these opposing nations?
JT That is what has been remarked. Each one of them represents some feature of the opposition. Ammon and Moab sprang from Lot, as we know; and Edom was more intimately related, being Jacob’s brother; the Philistines were in the territory of Israel, so that these four, I think, are a set by themselves, being in more immediate contact with the people of God. Then there are two more general features, that is, Tyre, which would be the world in its commerce and pride, reaching up to the god of this world, as the prince and king of it; then Egypt would be the world as representing human resources and independence of God.
DMR Would you say that what you are remarking about the nations in relation to Israel finds a corresponding answer in the seven assemblies in Revelation?
JT Well, I think that may be worked out. The overcomer in each of these represents what is specially of God. There are those that are more immediately connected with us, for instance, called ‘brethren’ but who have not walked in the principles recovered for the saints; and then, to go a little further afield,
[p. 264] we have the Protestant bodies. These are more intimately related to the real people of God, and profit most in that they have more light and enjoy more advantages as knowing God. Then there is the huge commercial system that we cannot exactly regard as religious; it enters into all these features, and the god of this world seems to stand more in relation to that. Then there is the world of human resources in which God is left out. Men go on in all sorts of things: theatres, horse-racing, gambling, and the many things devised to render them independent of God, in which their bodies are satisfied. These things can be clearly distinguished.
FL So I was thinking in regard to Tyre. In itself commerce is not an evil; it is the appropriation of it by the god of this world that has made it evil. Hiram, king of Tyre, for example, was of profitable account to Solomon and David in relation to the building of the temple; up to that point, Tyre might be reckoned as ministering of the creatures of God.
JT The articles of commerce are creatures of God, and in themselves are good; as you said, they were available for David, for Hiram always loved David, and the temple was furnished by him. But when the creatures of God are carried beyond that, and made the occasions of competition, rivalry and amassing of fortunes, there is room only in such commerce for the god of this world.
ANW Does it work out that the nearer the proximity, the greater and severer the judgment? I was struck with Capernaum; I think it is the only town in which the Lord, during His ministry, had a home. He had to say it should be thrust down to hell.
JT So that it becomes very solemn for the Western nations; that is, taking them as a whole, Western Europe, and Europe as including all those countries of the British Dominions, and also this [p. 265] country, where the gospel has been nominally received; these chapters bear particularly on all these, so that instead of these peoples finding themselves in the light, we find, as the result of investigation, their position is worse than that of the heathen lands!
FL While you have been speaking, it has occurred to me that there is a sort of counterpart of this in the Lord’s presentation of things (Matthew 13) in that He discovers for Himself the treasure, and the pearl, as drawn out of this world. Satan also discovers the resources of treasure in men and commerce and the like; they become constructive elements of his dominions to hold men against God.
ANW What has been said about the Western nations is remarkable in the light of the movement from Christendom, which will have the severer judgment, to evangelise the heathen, who will have the lesser judgment.
AFM I was going to ask why it is, that in connection with the judgment of those nations adjacent to Israel, their indictment is so briefly stated; whereas we have two and a half, or more, chapters devoted to Tyre.
JT Egypt too is equally extensively dealt with, I think because these two divisions cover the history of the world as enlightened by the gospel. The commercial system, which has been ever progressive, and then the same system, only viewed in its self-containedness, having the means through commerce, of providing what is for its gratification. Men have made money but use it for the satisfaction of their own lusts; so that all kinds of devices have been invented for the satisfying of their lusts, and God is shut out altogether. These two divisions, I think, run on to open apostasy. The relation of commerce with Babylon in Revelation shows how commerce, with other things, ends in open apostasy.
FL I suppose there is a great significance [p. 266] in the fact that Babylon is not yet brought in. If Tyre be the climax of commerce and manufacture, etc., and Egypt the general aspect of the world abandoned and away from God. Babylon is an aspect of glory in man in ritual and what is connected with religion, don’t you think? Therefore, it does not fit in here at this time.
JT Nebuchadnezzar is mentioned under the title of “king of kings” or emperor, not as a subject of judgment but as an instrument of judgment, so that the Imperial system of the world is not revealed here for judgment at all. It is more the world in certain features with which we Christians have to do — the world of commerce and the world of flesh; these are the things that we suffer from. Government is a thing we are thankful for. Nebuchadnezzar represented God, as His servant, and his title “king of kings” really belongs to Christ in the Revelation, so that Nebuchadnezzar would be a sort of type of government in the abstract, in relation to these things for which we Christians are thankful.
DMR In connection with what has been said about Tyre and Egypt, does it not carry with it the thought that there was found in them the spirit of revolt against Nebuchadnezzar, whom God had established?
JT He was God’s servant in these conditions; it was he who overthrew Tyre, and indeed, it is said here he had to be given wages for destroying Tyre.
FL Egypt was Nebuchadnezzar’s wages.
JT Yes.
AFM Where do you place Roman Catholicism in all this?
JT Well, I think it would come under the head of those that are nearly related to the people of God. As a system, it will be judged, as Revelation 2 shows. The remnant in Thyatira would correspond with the end of chapter 24, where the prophet’s wife died. It [p. 267] is what any person who has been in relation to these systems would feel when awakened to the destruction of them. Men are held by these things, they are the delight of their eyes, religiously speaking; and as God’s judgment is seen upon them, there is a keen sensibility. I think that the death of the prophet’s wife would point to what a godly Jew would feel, how he would take account of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish system; and so relatively today, anyone awakened in these systems would feel the destruction of them, you know. We see in Romans 9 what the Jewish system was to Paul.
FL I was noticing that every one of these sections that come under judgment have, so to speak, had opportunities given them of God, so that when they come to judgment, it is because they have perverted and refused those opportunities. When Israel came through the wilderness, they were not to attack Edom, and not to invade Ammon because of relationship with them. Egypt had been favoured through Joseph and Tyre had been brought into favour through David and Solomon. These were places which had their turn, and had definitely refused any link with God. Do you not think we find that condition of things taken account of today? Practically every one of the things named have begun with spiritual impulses, but the time came when they were captured and perverted.
JT Well, now, it becomes very solemn to consider that the commercial system heads up in the king of Tyre, who is a type of Satan himself. It is right that the people of God, having necessarily to do directly or indirectly with commerce, should be warned as to progressing in it beyond what is necessary. If we aim at anything beyond that, we place ourselves within the range of the god of this world. In handling the creatures of God commercially for a livelihood, you can give God thanks, but going beyond [p. 268] that into the spirit of Tyre in competition and ambition is dangerous; it means we are brought under the influence of the god of this world.
FL Most important. I had a long talk with a Christian young man this past week who had certain lines in which he could extend from a very unsatisfactory position into one with great prospects. It is very important that we do not put ourselves within the range of the god of this world.
ANW Why does the scripture go so far as to say that “the love of money is the root of every evil”, 1 Timothy 6: 10?
JT Oh, I think on the same lines of which we are speaking. Tyre represents that as set forth in these chapters. It would not represent that when its products were used for the building of the temple; that was a very different matter. If I can supply, through commerce, the means of helping the people of God, as Hiram did in David’s and Solomon’s day, that is a justifiable thing; but when I go beyond that, and amass the means of living in affluence and leave God out, I put myself within the range of the god of this world.
DMR What has just been remarked about Tyre commercially, would apply specially to New York today, do you not think?
JT Yes, that is why this subject is of such importance to us. It is a time of great cities. Revelation contemplates cities. In many respects cities have acquired a greater place than ever before, because of the world of commerce. Those of us who live in these large centres do well to be warned, because opportunities are great, and the god of this world is not slow to afford them to us, you know. He took the Lord to an exceeding high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; these were available to him, and he [p. 269] would give them to the Lord, and would give a slice of them to any Christian now.
AFM If we do him homage?
JT Yes.
FL I was wondering whether we could apply any lesson from Hiram’s day to ourselves. There came a time when he expected what he had done to buy him a great place in the land, and I think we are sometimes in danger of having the sense that we might buy a place in the spiritual sphere, and by reason of that, seek a place to which we are not entitled.
AFM Would you say a word to distinguish between the prince of Tyre, and the king of Tyre?
JT I suppose “the prince” would be historical, but “the king” is a further thought taken up in chapter 28: 11. You will notice that there is a difference in the address to him. In the first verse it says, “the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyre”; then verse 11, “the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyre”. He became the subject of a lamentation, showing that it was a more serious matter.
FL Do you think it would cause a profound sense of grief in the spiritual sphere, that he who has sealed up the measure of perfection, apparently the greatest of all God’s created beings, should be found fallen, delivered over to darkness and turning the world against God. Do you not think that in the spiritual world, principalities, powers, and angels as well as saints, have grieved over the fall of Satan?
JT I think so; the more you know God, the more you take account of, and take to heart, the things that have happened. We are not told much of the history of angels, but still we have this word from the Lord: “The devil ... was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth ... he is a liar and its father” (John 8: 44); so that we [p. 270] have in this statement enough to show that he is the author of evil; but then he was not always that; and as you say, this chapter doubtless alludes to the fact that he was once in favour, the “anointed covering cherub”, whose covering was “every precious stone”, that is, he represented responsibility as standing before God to reflect what God as Creator is. I suppose every item in the creation in some sense reflects God, but it is not all covered with precious stones; this great creature was, so that he represents some feature in the creation that was superlative. He had only nine precious stones. In the breastplate there were twelve. The foundations of the heavenly city were adorned with every precious stone known, in that Christ has come out; but every precious stone then known in Eden was Satan’s covering; he stood out as representative of creation in the most exemplary way. The precious stones represent and reflect what is of the Creator in the creature.
FL It is most interesting to see that God reserves, as it were, a surplus that should apply to Christ, I mean the twelve stones are reserved for Him.
JT Yes, the complete idea of administrative representation is seen in the twelve. The heavenly city is said to have in its foundation “every precious stone”.
FL We get Satan’s glory, as before his fall. In Isaiah 14, as identified with Babylon, he is designated there as “Lucifer, son of the morning!” saying in his heart, “I will ascend into the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, and I will sit upon the mount of assembly, in the recesses of the north”. It is a remarkable picture as connected with Babylon.
JT Just so, the position would be more religious in character.
AFM The stones in the breastplate had engraven [p. 271] on them the names of the twelve tribes, which I think would be suggestive of the saints now as reflecting the light of God.
JT It seems to represent the measure in which the creature can reflect the Creator; so that in the heavenly city we have got a perfect reflection of God, I apprehend administratively, and being in the foundations of the city, as you might say, it is intrinsically the city, the idea enters into the whole of it. She shines as a jasper.
AAT When the Lord says of Satan, that he was a liar from the beginning, that goes back a long way.
JT It does. Very early in the creatorial ways of God, no doubt.
TA Did the Lord infer that Satan was dissatisfied with the place appointed to him by God?
JT Yes, his heart was lifted up because of his beauty, and he aspired to the highest position. We are told in 1 Timothy 3: 6, that the overseer in the house of God must not be “a novice, that he may not, being inflated, fall into the fault of the devil”. Satan must have been a very wonderful being according to this passage.
FL So here it was his vanity; in Isaiah, his ambition.
Ques This scripture views Satan as the king of Tyre; as prince of Persia, under what figure would Satan come in there?
JT The prince of Persia would, I suppose, stand in the way of some governmental movement of which Michael had charge.
Ques. Was it Satanic?
JT Yes. It shows how Satan can operate against any governmental movement of God.
Rem I was thinking that the description of the king of Tyre would be the exact opposite of what is said regarding the Lord in Philippians 2.
JT Yes. “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus; who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God; but emptied himself, taking a bondman’s form, taking his place in the likeness of men; and having been found in figure as a man, humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of the cross” (verses 5 - 8). It is the exact opposite; so that we are saved from the Satanic influence of commerce by retaining the mind of Christ, and what we are doing commercially is just to provide things honest; and to have to give to him that needeth.
AAT Commerce seems to have quite a big place today; Satan has taken advantage of it, and dominates the situation. But in the world to come, is it not the thought that conditions will be so entirely changed that commerce will not have a place?
JT I do not think it will have a place as a competitive element. Rivalry now lends its character to the world of commerce, and gives the name designated by the Lord, to the currency of it: “the mammon of unrighteousness”, Luke 16: 9. It cannot be “the mammon of unrighteousness” as a mere matter of exchange for convenience, but as representing the spirit of rivalry, competition and pride.
FL So that one can trace the root of it to Cain, “am I my brother’s keeper” Genesis 4: 9. As in competition, a man will ruthlessly destroy the business of his fellow-man, if he cannot get it for himself. Every man for himself! is the motto of today. Men will in rivalry overthrow and destroy men who have wives and families. That will not be so in the millennium.
AFM In the list of the merchandise of Babylon, given in Revelation 18, we have named, the “bodies and souls of men”. Which substantiates your remark [p. 273] as showing the lengths to which this commercial spirit will go.
JT In the prince of Tyre, we have represented the wisdom of the world; it is said of him, “thou art wiser than Daniel”. It is remarkable the great sagacity, etc., brought in to contribute to the world of commerce at the present time. Everything is bent in that direction; man’s brain is taxed to the uttermost to provide means of building up this system of commerce. I think the prince of Tyre represents that at the present time. It is said of him, “Because thy heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of God, in the heart of the seas (and thou art a man, and not God), and thou settest thy heart as the heart of God: behold thou are wiser than Daniel! nothing secret is obscure for thee; by thy wisdom and by thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and thy heart is lifted up because of thy riches”. It is a remarkable description of present day enterprise, of how science is taxed, and everything is bent in one direction, to build up a system of commerce.
FL I think in connection with what you were saying, in Isaiah 14 we have a description of the king of Babylon, and the prince of Persia of Daniel 10 would be suggestive of a kind of trinity of evil in which Satan works. He lends his wisdom to the beast, so that we see him religiously in relation to Babylon, as the prince of Tyre in relation to commerce, and then as to political or governmental power, it is suggested that in connection with Daniel 10 he lends his wisdom and support to the one who has the imperial power.
JT Quite.
BTF Would you say it was just on the line of the king of Tyre that Satan tried to tempt the Lord, saying, “All these things will I give thee if, falling down, thou wilt do me homage”, Matthew 4: [p. 274] 9?
JT Well, I think that is right. What you see in these two scriptures read is that the people of God are under the eye of God in all these things. God is going to deal with the world in these features, but His people are under His eye in all that is going on. In chapter 28: 25, 26, when Jehovah recovers the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered. He shall be hallowed in them in the sight of the nations. “Then shall they dwell in their land”. That is a very beautiful touch in the midst of all this. It is a word, I think, for the people of God now, as to how they are in His mind pending the judgment that He is about to execute. Then in chapter 29: 21, it says, “In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them”. We may have to get a permit now from the authorities, if we would preach the gospel out of doors, but the time is coming when God will give the opening of the mouth to His people. They will have every opportunity to speak in that day.
AFM Verses 18 and 19 of chapter 28, I suppose, would have reference to Satan being bound for a thousand years.
JT I think we can understand that now. The book of Revelation gives the normal development and correction of all these evils. It carries us on to finality, which the Old Testament does not. The Old Testament deals prophetically with Israel, and what happens on the earth; but when we come to the New Testament, one of the books which deals with the government of God is the gospel of Matthew; it carries us right on to the end, where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (see chapters 13 and 25). It is final, and so in the book of Revelation we have all these evils brought to finality. Satan is bound for a thousand years, and then comes his final consignment to the lake of fire.
[p. 275] FL At the end of chapter 32, there is a suggestion of all these elements that have been in opposition to God being held, so to speak, in abeyance for final judgment, which I think comes up and is disposed of in that way: “He shall be laid in the midst of the uncircumcised, with them that are slain by the sword” (verse 32). All these different things are named and a disposition is made of them in that way as awaiting final judgment. If we appreciated these things, it would help to clear us from the present power of this world.
JT I think so. The end of these two chapters read shows what is in the mind of God about His people.
WT “They shall dwell in safety”.