READING

^[p. 64] READING

Acts 4: 23 - 37; Acts 13: 1 - 3; Acts 14: 23 - 28

JT These scriptures show us the place the assembly had in relation to the three leading servants in Christianity — Peter, John, and Paul. I think it might help us if we consider how these servants, and the Spirit working through them, recognised the company in relation to their work. It is well to take account of this, because distinction in service or success in service naturally tends to give prominence to those who serve, and unless there be a full recognition of the place the assembly has in this connection, there is the danger of personal influence becoming unduly pronounced among the people of God. Recognition of the assembly as seen in these passages would have an equalising effect. In the first scripture read we find the company is resorted to by Peter and John, and there is an equalising process, if one may so speak, in the prayers of the company, for all the apostles come into view again, not only Peter and John who were distinguished, but they all come into evidence and are seen in active service. “With great power gave the apostles witness” (verse 33). Not Peter and John only, but the apostles. In 1 Corinthians 12: 28 it says, “And God has set certain in the assembly”. They are all set in the assembly, and the thought is that each should shine in his own place, and Acts 4 shows that it was so in that company. Whilst there are those who are particularly distinguished, for God in His sovereignty must have His own way, yet the other apostles, whose names are not given in this chapter, are also mentioned as working.

EJMcB In that way the value of the assembly as a whole would be that the servant in his activities ^[p. 65] would keep in touch with, and hold himself in relation to all the thoughts of God in regard of the assembly.

JT And it would put him in his own place in the assembly. “God has set certain in the assembly”, we are told, “first, apostles; secondly, prophets”, etc. (1 Corinthians 12: 28). Now, if He has set them there, His thought is that they are all to shine there, and they are not to overshadow one another.

EJMcB Was that the Corinthian difficulty? “I am of Paul, and I of Apollos”.

JT They were setting up local leaders, one against another, and that was taking the matter out of God’s hands. The equalising vessel is the assembly. So God maintains through the free action of the Spirit in the whole company the place for each gift. In the heavenly city the apostles are all seen in their own positions; there are twelve precious stones; and in this first great gathering, which we may call the Pentecostal church, they are all there, and any one coming in would see the shining of them all. They were specially fitted to shine, for being precious stones would indicate that they were the special handiwork of Christ, and He would have every ray of light reflected, each stone in his own place. So it would seem as if the Spirit of God sets things down here in such wise that we may see, that while Peter and John were distinguished in the special service committed to them, yet as coming into the company, they do not overshadow others. It does not say they led in prayer, or in anything that took place on this occasion.

PL Does not the word of Peter, “Look on us” (Acts 3: 4), indicate how he in mind was found in relation to the assembly? Does that word ‘us’ correspond to the Lord’s own word, ‘ME’, in speaking to Saul of Tarsus; Acts 9: 4?

JT Peter and John were the best, so to speak, that God had to put forward. That is surely worthy ^[p. 66] of God, to put forward the best He has; and they were that, specially as viewed together. “Look on us”, they could say. This is probably linked on with chapter 2: 47, “The Lord added daily those that were to be saved”. The word ‘assembly’ is not there; it is the principle of being put together. Peter and John would represent that supremely; so in chapter 3: 1 we read, “went up together”. They would represent the principle of unity in a supreme measure, and they are the ones that are put forward. It is due to God that in approaching men He should have the right to ornament the testimony (though in a certain sense it needs no ornamentation) with the very best He has. Indeed, His love requires that He should commend the message — what He has for man — in the vessels through whom it is presented. So that what heaven was ministering for man was enhanced in these two servants. They were the very best, now that Christ was gone, and it was due to God that they should be put forward; they were the reflex of Christ here. In the presence of the beautiful gate of the temple, the very sight of which was so attractive to the religious mind, they say, “Look on us”. Something was there that eclipsed that gate; great and imposing as it was, it did not come up to these two men. “Look on us”.

PL The Lord says of Saul of Tarsus, “This man is an elect vessel to me”, Acts 9: 15. Is that His sovereign right to put forward the best?

JT Yes. There seems to be a movement forward, and if a comparison may be made, Paul, as alluded to in that scripture, was heaven’s best; so that the testimony of God has come to the Gentiles in a vessel that enhanced it in every way, and it is the Lord’s right that it should be so. Paul was the last, according to his own record, to whom the Lord appeared. “And last of all ... he appeared to me also”, 1 Corinthians 15: 8. I think Peter, John, and Paul may be taken ^[p. 67] to be personally representative of the Lord, each in his own connection. He appeared to Peter personally, He appeared to John personally, also to Paul, and to James. It may be these personal appearings were intended to stamp those who were to represent the Lord, each in his own connection.

PL Would you say the Lord’s appearing to Peter was in regard to the kingdom, to Paul in regard to the assembly, and to John in regard to the family?

JT That is how it stands, pretty much.

FSM And though the apostles have passed away, the principles you have been speaking of continue in the thought of “vessels unto honour”, in order to be serviceable to the Master?

JT I think so. It is due to God to have the very best, and you do not want to stand in the light of what God is doing. He must have His way, and He puts forward that which is most likely to enhance the testimony to men. He wishes to recommend it. He is so considerate of man that He would make it acceptable. The Lord Himself preached in such wise as to make it acceptable; it was enhanced through His lips. We read, they “wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth”. With us, alas! there is often something that detracts in the way we preach.

Ques. Why is that?

JT I think it is because the vessels are not formed. The Lord had expended great care on Peter and John; we know how these great vessels were with Him on special occasions, when others were not. He intended that they should be the best in the house, if we may use that word, and I think we may, for the Lord knows all the vessels and the value of each, for in the Master’s house it is due to the Lord that nothing but the best vessels should be put forward. They all hang on the nail in a sure place; Isaiah 22: 23. He supports every one, but there is a variety of them. When He says of Saul, “This man is an elect vessel to me”, you may be sure he was that. He was the first one of whom the word ‘vessel’ was used.

FSM With reference to the vessels of the temple, they were all made according to the divine pattern; would you say that now vessels are formed by the Spirit according to the sovereignty of God?

JT I am sure that is right. So the idea of gift is to enhance the truth and enforce it. Any Christian might unfold the doctrine of the gospel, but that would not be preaching. We find in Acts 2 that those who received the Spirit were all heard speaking, as it says, “the great things of God” (verse 11). But it does not say there were any convictions, or conversions. There were Jews there present from all nations, and proselytes, and they heard them speak the wonderful works of God, but you will note it is “speaking”. It is quite right to speak the wonderful things of God, but when Peter stood up with the eleven and preached there were three thousand converted (verse 41), showing how gift enhances the truth, and enforces it, even as it is intended for this purpose. So the lesson to be gained from that is, that while every Christian should speak about the wonderful things of God, we should be careful that those who preach are suitable and able to preach; and we should not stand in their way.

Ques Are there more conversions amongst the systems than there are amongst us?

JT I do not think that throws much light on what we are speaking of. What we want to recognise is the divine thought, so that we may work things out from causes to results and not from results to causes, and that we may learn to distrust all results which are not the product of divine causation. Gift is designed of God to enhance the truth. God may use any instrumentality He wishes. We have to learn by seeing what God used to enforce the testimony at the beginning.

^[p. 69] Ques Would you say there is not much to be added to the assembly?

JT There ought to be converts, and I think there are too. Our great concern primarily should be to work out the divine thought, as I have already said.

EJMcB One can recognise the beauty and seemliness of every believer speaking the wonderful things of God, and can see the distinction between that and the preaching of Peter. What is gift?

JT Well, it is a power similar to that in which Christ rose. “Having ascended up on high, he has led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men”, Ephesians 4: 8. There would thus be here a power relatively similar to that which is exercised by the Lord Himself in heaven — the power of the world to come, in other words. It is akin to what was seen in the Lord when here. He gave power to the apostles over all the power of the enemy, so that no other power could compete with it. Gift in that way is, as another has said, “power from Christ”. Anyone who has a gift has it relatively, some more and some less. The fact that I can speak or unfold the truth does not necessarily mean that I have gift. I think that full opportunity should be given for the development of gift. If a brother has a gift, he should have an opportunity to develop it; room should be made for it, because it is divinely provided to enhance the truth and to make it attractive.

PL Would you say it is the spoil of the ascended Man?

JT It is that kind of power; it is power from an ascended Man — from a victorious Christ, and it cannot be withstood; it brings everything down. That is not mere speaking; Anna spoke of Christ; it does not say she preached Him. Jonah preached; and surely everyone should speak of the Lord, and the Lord would bless what was said, but that is not gift exactly. The best evidence of what I say is ^[p. 70] that when those in Acts 2 spoke of the great things of God we hear of no conversions, though they had an attentive audience; the conversions were when Peter preached.

FW Gift would set free what is in the assembly. “They spake the word of God with boldness”, Acts 4: 31.

JT No doubt. It really affords the Lord an opportunity. “Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me”, 2 Corinthians 13: 3. Gift is no less than that. A gift is like a commission. I only refer to that by way of illustration; a commission represents the king; it is his commission. There must be the presentation of Christ here, and gift is for that. The Lord has direct access to men through the gift.

FGW What would help to bring a gift to light amongst the saints?

JT It is for each local company to discern what there may be, and to make room for it, not to stand in the way of it. You would put your very best forward to present the truth to souls, because that is God’s way.

FSM Would a readiness to bow to God’s sovereign movements contribute to the development of gift?

JT If God is putting a man forward and you want to make room for him, it will soon become apparent; he will not give out that he is some great one. One would covet the gift, covet the power, but not for the prominence it might give one; that is not the thought at all. But if we are alive to what God is doing, we shall bow to it. The Lord has His own way of calling attention to gift; and moreover, if local gift is not evident, we can pray for it. The Lord has got abundance by Him, and He will answer.

The assembly does not teach or preach, nor should the assembly provide a preacher, nor select a preacher,

^[p. 71] but it is its province to be sympathetic, and to pray, and to lay hands on those who are sent.

FW How should those matters be arranged amongst us?

JT Preaching is on the principle of gift, and therefore whatever responsibility is attached to it should be in the hands of those who have gift. No responsibility should be placed in the hands of those without gift. The Lord selected twelve that they might be with Him before sending them forth to preach. The apostles were all taught for their service; they were chosen and sent out; they were really furnished from on high. Having ascended He gave gifts; and that included them all. Their service was carried on in the power of the Spirit, come down from an ascended Christ, and there is no power great enough in the world to compete with it.

Ques In Corinthians we are exhorted to earnestly desire the best gifts. What are the best gifts?

JT That would depend on the need, whatever it might be at any given time, but evidently the gift of prophecy is the one specially commended; that is, the power to bring in the mind of God in such wise that it carries conviction — it is the word of God.

EJMcB One takes it that in a place where there is not very much gift, we are well off if we have the mind of God.

JT In Acts 21: 9 we read of Philip, the evangelist, who had four daughters who prophesied; they did not preach, but they prophesied. The evangelist would feel the great need of bringing in the mind of God when souls were converted. What greater need for any convert than to know the mind of God about him? In regard to the exercise as to the one in whose hands the responsibility of the gospel should be, the thing is to find out if there be a preacher in the company. He is the one to be chosen, but not merely as an official to appoint preachers. He takes ^[p. 72] the responsibility, and as a matter of fact the saints lend the room, and attend the preaching and have sympathy with him, but they are not undertaking it. It is the mind of God that the preaching should be by preachers who have gift. Peter stood up with the eleven, we read, but previous to that he had stood up in the midst of the hundred and twenty. But when it comes to preaching he stands up with the eleven, and there were results on that occasion; there were three thousand converts, and it is all recorded to impress us with how things stood at the beginning.

FW I fear the matter has become rather formal with us in choosing a preacher for the next Lord’s day evening.

JT I suppose the most difficult thing amongst us is to maintain things on a living basis. There is a constant danger, and it is easy to settle down in an arranged order of things, such and such a one to do this or that, but it does not imply that such a one is in the power of the Spirit. In the beginning all service was carried on in the power of the Spirit; so that the person responsible for the preaching should be a preacher, and be in the power of the Spirit, even as at the beginning. We know how weak we all are, but it is a question of having the right ideal before us.

FW What is the position of the company in relation to the preaching of the gospel?

JT It should give sympathy and moral support; that is all, but of course it is a great deal. The assembly is “the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth”, 1 Timothy 3: 15.

Ques Do you think the saints have a balancing effect in the way of judging what is said?

JT Yes, and that is right. The assembly being the pillar and base of the truth, the company would look after the truth. The preacher would be amenable ^[p. 73] to the assembly if his preaching were not in accord with the truth. As the Lord says, “Thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not”, Revelation 2: 2.

EJMcB Aquila and Priscilla are an illustration. They would represent the interest of the assembly in looking after Apollos; they instructed him in the way of God more perfectly; Acts 18: 24 - 26.

JT Apollos represents the Lord’s sovereignty in selecting His servants. We should have thought that Paul would be the one to instruct him, but no! Aquila and Priscilla were the ones, and they do it in such wise as not to discredit what he was doing. He was a distinguished man, so they spoke to him privately; it would not be suitable that he should be corrected publicly.

Ques Is there a gift in every gathering?

JT Gifts are not connected in Scripture with gatherings at all; they are not local, they are in the assembly; it is a general thought. So if there should be no brother with gift in a local company, room should be made for gift from some other locality.

PL Coming from heaven, gift could not be local.

FGW What would answer now to Peter standing up with the eleven?

JT The principle is they — that is, the eleven — were all gifts, all specially gifted. The ascended Lord gave gifts; first apostles; they were the first-fruits of the Spirit in connection with gift. There are no apostles now; we have not that which would answer to Peter and the eleven, but the point is that the preaching is connected with gift. Then the next chapter (Acts 3) shows that there were two distinguished ones among the gifts, who were fitted to represent heaven more than others, and God puts these forward, so that Peter says, “Look on us”. They were ornamental.

Ques In what way did Aquila and Priscilla help ^[p. 74] Apollos in the truth? Were they versed in what Paul brought out?

JT Yes. They had lodged with Paul at Corinth; they showed Apollos the way of God more exactly. It was an important thing, a man and his wife, a brother and a sister, doing this service, and it shows how the assembly may be used to help and equalise things.

These two servants — Peter and John — were distinguished, as we were saying, but when they come to the company they all pray (verse 31). The priestly side is now in evidence, and all are in the presence of God. As drawing near to Him in prayer, in the sense of need, each gets his own place, because it is not a question of gift then, but of spiritual stature and power. I do not need gift to draw near to God; in prayer we are all brought face to face with God, and that is how things are adjusted in the assembly. That is what tells, and what equalises things.

PL In writing to the Corinthians Paul says, “Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas ... all are yours; and ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s”, 1 Corinthians 3: 22, 23. Is that the thought of gifts belonging to the assembly?

JT That is right. They were for the assembly, and the most distinguished preacher or minister as he approaches God, as he prays with his brethren, finds his level; he finds just where he is with God, because there is no question of gift there. The priestly side embraces all the saints — the whole company.

Rem The tribe of Levi answers to the priestly service, Godward and manward.

JT Every controversy and every stroke was to be by the word of the priest, therefore one of the greatest things to know is the principle of merging in the company. The rights of God are maintained there, because it is not the assembly that is operating, though it is the sphere of His operations. These ^[p. 75] two distinguished men, being let go, went to their own company. They were not above the company, they were of the company; they were just two of them. If the company were to be counted they would be just two, but what they were relatively came out in the power they had with God. The gifts merge in the company, before they emerge. So they all pray, not just Peter and John, and heaven answered, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. Now when the Holy Spirit begins to fill, it is a question of the size of the vessel. “Borrow thee vessels ... borrow not a few”, 2 Kings 4: 3. The Spirit indwelling saints is a question of how much they can contain; it is not a question of gift, but of capacity, of the size of the vessel. You will see therefore how this mode of procedure makes room for every one of the Lord’s people, and hence a sister may have more spiritual capacity than some of us who may have ability. When you draw near to God all depends on spiritual capacity.

Ques Philip’s daughters would answer to that, I suppose?

JT Well, I think these four women at Caesarea are mentioned specially by the Spirit of God. If we had been there, we should doubtless have been thinking of Philip. These four daughters, we read, were virgins, and prophesied. It does not say they were prophetesses, but that they prophesied, for the point is not to bring in anything official or fixed formally, but what is active; so it says, “who prophesied”; they were active.

EJMcB Is not the normal effect of a true evangelical gift to bring to light soil in which the mind of God can be made known?

JT I think that is right.

FSM I should like to ask a further question as to merging. On any given occasion on which saints come together, if all the gifts were merged, would it ^[p. 76] give the Lord an opportunity of using His sovereign rights in making His own selection?

JT That would make room for the Lord and His sovereign rights in the company.

EJMcB Would that preserve us from arranging meetings beforehand? If a meeting is going to be held, and the subject is fixed up and everything arranged, such leaves no room for the Spirit of God.

JT I think the Lord would bring us back to the assembly. I am sure that He would emphasise that the assembly is the sphere of the Spirit’s operations; and the gifts are set in it, so as to be available for the Spirit at any time.

EJMcB We should not lose anything He has set there.

JT It casts us upon Him to restrain the flesh, and we receive support from Him. If we are cast upon Him, there is no reason under these circumstances why we should not have meetings for edification, for the Spirit can use whom He will, and He would do so. The apostle says, “When ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm”, 1 Corinthians 14: 26. If I have something to give, but no opportunity to give it, I can keep it till another time. Note the scripture says, “each of you has”, not two of you have. It is a mistake for two to come in with something fixed; if one has a psalm, or has a teaching, and the Lord gives an opportunity, that one can give it out, but if not, he can keep it for another time.

RR Is being filled with the Holy Spirit something special here?

JT Yes, and the shaking of the building too. If the saints are cast on God, as here, there is sure to be an answer from heaven, and corresponding results; not anything like this, of course, for we are in the day of small things, but if we have the right thing before us God will act for us.

Ques How ^[p. 77] is capacity acquired?

JT Capacity is produced by self-judgment. When Elisha was about to die, king Joash came to see him (2 Kings 13: 14 - 19), and the prophet told him to take bow and arrows, and to open the window and shoot eastwards, and he shot. “And he said, The arrow of the Lord’s deliverance”. The east suggests the resurrection power of Christ — a power we can reckon on. But then Elisha told him to smite on the ground, and he smote three times and stayed. The man of God was wroth and said, “Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times”. Smiting the three times meant he would only have three victories. The point seems to be self-judgment. I think that is where the lack is; that answers to the smiting on the ground. The one arrow shot eastward pointed to the coming in of Christ; there is no need for more on that line, but as regards myself there is a great deal to be effected. If the power of God is to be operative in me, if I am to gain the victory, then there must be deep self-judgment — not holding anything in reserve, so that room may be made for the Spirit.

FSM It is said that the capacity of a ship is measured by its displacement, so capacity with us is according to self-judgment.

JT The more we smite the ground, that is, judge ourselves, the more room there is for the Spirit.

FW Is that illustrated in the empty vessels in 2 Kings 4? Was it a question of capacity in filling them?

JT Every empty vessel is filled. The more self-judgment there is, the more room for the Spirit.

Now in Acts 13 and 14 we see the place the assembly had in relation to Paul. Peter was not sent out from the company, but Paul and Barnabas were. They remained in Antioch for a year, and the result is, that they with others are distinguished as ministering to the Lord and fasting. Ministering to the Lord ^[p. 78] and fasting! Here we have two suggestions that are most important, if there is to be success in service. And so, as knowing them thus, the assembly — the saints in Antioch — lay their hands on these two servants and send them away. Then later we read, when their journey was completed they returned to Antioch, “Whence they had been committed to the grace of God for the work which they had fulfilled”, chapter 14: 26. That is to say, the work was done.

Ques Would you say a little as to ministering to the Lord and fasting?

JT I think as they ministered to the Lord they were made conscious of the need for fasting. Waiting on the Lord impresses you with the sense that the flesh is in your way. I believe most of us would bear witness to the fact that we are conscious in our approach to God, in our priestly and levitical service, of the great intrusion of the flesh. How present it ever is. The thing is to starve it, because the more it is starved, the weaker it becomes, and the less trouble we shall have from it. Fasting is the habit we acquire of starving the flesh.

RR Is that making no provision for the flesh?

JT Yes, quite so; the habit has to be acquired.

EJMcB There is no doubt that in waiting on the Lord the flesh takes occasion to bring itself into evidence.

JT Yes. But now we find that these two men going forth under such circumstances were successful. “The work which they had fulfilled”, it says. The question comes up as to how much one has done, or whether one is working without a purpose. If I were to ask you, what are you doing, what are you aiming at, what would you say?

EJMcB I would not like to say very much on that line, but one would seek to promote the interests of God, and to desire that the saints should be set more intelligently in relation to Christ.

JT ^[p. 79] That is it; you have something before you. The great thing is to see what God is doing and to have our part in it. Paul said he had laid the foundation. There is not a greater thing than that one should be one of God’s workmen, and to be intelligent as to what one is doing in it. Paul and Barnabas set out to do something, and they fulfilled the work.

EJMcB It is a very good exercise for servants to view themselves as those who through grace have part in what God is doing. God has something before Him, and it should be before His servants.

JT Yes. Otherwise we do not finish anything, like those in Sardis. The Lord has to say, “I have not found thy works complete”, Revelation 3: 2. If one undertakes a piece of work it is a great thing to finish it.

EJMcB Have you any thought as to the apostle’s second visit to a place?

JT In returning from their first journey it speaks of Paul exhorting the saints and encouraging them. And then they chose elders in each assembly and committed them to the Lord (chapter 14: 21 - 26), so that the work which they had effected should stand. But in regard to the second visit (chapter 15: 36). Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us return now and visit the brethren in every city where we have announced the word of the Lord, and see how they are getting on”. On the occasion of revisiting the places there is not a word about preaching or teaching. That is a very remarkable thing; some of us might think. Why should I go to visit the brethren if I have not gift to help them, but there is not a word here about Paul’s gift or the exercise of it with Silas in this journey; nor does the apostle propose to minister, but they went, as he said, “to see how they do”. That is another piece of work! At the same time it is work that is within the range of any Christian; and it is definite service to go and see how they do. It is not ^[p. 80] going to spend a holiday in a place, but having a definite object in view, and it might very well be to see how the saints are getting on. There are many gatherings in the world which are rarely visited by brethren, and there are many pieces of work that Christians without gift may undertake.

WHC Is there any principle in the two going together, as in the case of Paul and Barnabas, and Paul and Silas?

JT The principle of adequate testimony. God would always present the best, to make the truth conclusive. The seventy were sent out two and two.

WHC How far would that apply now; is there any answer to it?

JT I doubt if there is an application today, as this is not the time for sending out to new ground. There was no one associated with Timothy. In a day of declension it is a question of what one man can do, rather than what two can do. James shows that in his reference to Elijah. He says that Elijah prayed that it should not rain, and it did not rain, and again he prayed that it should rain, and heaven gave rain; James 5: 17, 18.

EJMcB In 2 Timothy Paul says at the close of his history, “No man stood with me”. He evidently was alone then.

PL James remarks on God’s operations in individuals — Rahab, Abraham, Job.

JT It is worthy of note that these two — Barnabas and Paul — fulfil their work, and then they call the assembly together to make known the results of their service. The results of their work would greatly enhance the assembly.

Ques I should like to ask a question as to gift in individuals. Would service begin spontaneously, apart from any commission?

JT It did in Paul’s case. We have that word, “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might”, Ecclesiastes 9: 10. Barnabas helped Paul when he first went to Jerusalem from Damascus (Acts 9: 27), and also in bringing him to Antioch (chapter 11: 26), but that was not his commission, it was the work of a sympathetic brother bringing in another. But Paul’s commission was received at Antioch; chapter 13: 2.