(3) PRIESTHOOD BASED ON RIGHTEOUSNESS
(3) PRIESTHOOD BASED ON RIGHTEOUSNESS
FER In the first chapter we get the thought of Apostle and in connection with that, the throne. In chapter 2 we get the Priest, and in connection with that “all things” — “Thou has put all things under His feet”.
DLH That is as Head, I suppose?
FER Yes. He tastes death for everything. But then He is crowned with glory and honour and that brings in the thought of priesthood, therefore in the beginning of chapter 3, it is “consider the Apostle and High Priest”.
PRM Why does “crowned with glory and honour” bring in the thought of priesthood?
FER I think the Priest is the One who is Son of man. He is taken from man. In chapter 1 He is the Son of God (much more) but the priest is taken from men — He is the Son of man; He has to accomplish redemption; then He is crowned with glory and honour. That carries you on to Psalm 110. Then it is, “Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek”. It is the One who goes up who is crowned with glory and honour, who is constituted a Priest.
JSP Psalm 8 would be more a present kind of Melchisedec priesthood?
FER I think so.
JSO And the point in both chapters is His superiority to angels.
ED Then it goes beyond the Psalm although that is alluded to.
FER It does. There you get “Thou hast put all things under his feet”, only this gives its construction [p. 205] to it. The world to come is here identified with the whole system of things that comes under the Son of man.
ASL Is there any reason why “crowned with glory and honour” comes in here, it does not come in after tasting death for everything?
FER That of course connects with the first part of the sentence “We see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man”.
ASL You do not look upon it as crowned with glory and honour on the way to death?
FER No. The last part of the verse is linked up with the first part.
JB Was there not a sense in which He was crowned with glory and honour in John 11 and John 12?
FER No; crowned with glory and honour is above, that is He is put in the place of Head of the entire system. The Psalm runs, “Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet”, Psalm 8: 5 - 6.
Ques Could not that be said of Adam?
FER No, I think the psalm applies to the Son of man in distinction to man. What is said of the Son of man could not be said of Adam. Adam was put over the inferior creation, but the point of the Psalm is that “all things” are brought under the Son of man. “In that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him”.
PRM Does that relate to, “Who hast set thy glory above the heavens”?
FER Yes, in virtue of what He has accomplished the Son of man goes to the right hand of [p. 206] God, and is set over the works of God’s hands. It is the great answer to what Satan did down here. Man is corrupted by angels and the Son of man is God’s answer to it all. The Son of man goes to heaven and Satan is cast out as lightning from heaven, God establishes the Son of man over all the works of His hands upon the ground of redemption. I look upon it as being the great triumph of God.
JSO So “crowned with glory and honour” would be in respect of redemption.
FER I think so.
JSO Mr. Darby gives a note, ‘But we see Jesus who on account of the suffering of death was made a little lower than the angels crowned with glory and honour’.
FER That is it. Man lost the place which God had put him in to a large extent and the thing was never redeemed until redemption was accomplished and the Son of man exalted.
SLJ But you do not mean Satan is cast out of heaven yet?
FER No, what I mean is, he is cast out of heaven consequent upon the Son of man going into heaven. The man-child is taken up to heaven and war takes place, and Satan is cast out of heaven with his angels. It is the fact of the man-child being caught up to God and His throne which is the prelude to Satan and his angels being cast out. The Lord, I think, foresaw that in Luke 10.
HCA I suppose the lowest point must be touched before the highest point can be brought out?
FER Yes, I think it has been rightly said that the exaltation is commensurate with the humiliation.
Ques What relation has this to the world to come?
FER It is the world to come that is in view. The world to come means everything put under the Son of man. It is not yet displayed but what we [p. 207] do see is Jesus crowned with glory and honour. The moment has not yet come for display. The latter part of the chapter explains that for the moment God is bringing many sons to glory. The world to come is not put under angels but under the Son of man. Then it goes on to speak of Psalm 8 which does not simply mean the world to come but “all things”.
Ques Did the Jews understand the expression? They said, “Who is this Son of man?”
FER No; I think it was an enigma to them, though they ought to have known.
ASL What is the meaning of the expression in Romans 3 — that “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” in connection with this question of glory?
FER I think the whole universe which God intends to display will be lighted up with the glory of God. God is making that now the standard of everything. It is not the point that men have failed on the ground of responsibility but they have come short of the glory of God.
HCA I suppose the “crowned with glory and honour” is now?
FER Yes. It says lower down, “For it became him ... in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings”.
HCA How do you understand that — “It became him”?
FER I think it was what was according to His glory.
JSO Morally suitable. If He was to take this place He should be perfect through suffering.
FER Yes.
SLJ Does not the “whom” refer to [p. 208] God? (verse 10).
FER Yes. The thought of God’s bringing many sons to glory, and it was according to His glory that the Captain of their salvation should be made perfect through suffering.
ASL What is the idea of glory — a place?
FER Not exactly place — glory is the climax. Perfection connects itself with glory — the perfection of His purpose. You could not get priesthood without suffering, because all priesthood must be based on redemption — on righteousness. Mr. Darby pointed that out over and over again — priesthood must be founded on righteousness. The Priest must stand on the basis of redemption, because he has not to say to us about our sins — that point has to be entirely settled before you can touch priesthood.
HCA Do you take the word “perfect” to mean that it was necessary that He should go that way of suffering, so that He might come into the place?
FER Yes — being made perfect, He could take up the position.
JSO He was to do all that was required to be initiated into the office.
FER That is the idea.
Ques Does the word “perfect” refer to salvation?
FER It has reference to our salvation, because He is the Captain of our salvation. The Captain of our salvation had to be made perfect through suffering. He has not got to say to us about sins now, but He brings us into salvation.
ED What is the force of the word “Captain”?
FER Leader. The point is, it is impossible for anybody to realise salvation except in Christ Himself. The more we become attached to Christ, the more we grow to salvation.
JSO Would there be a shadow of difference between leader and high priest; is leader more like Joshua?
[p. 209] FER Yes, I think so. Christ is the only One outside the condition of things in which the devil operates — hence salvation is only known in Him.
Ques What are the sufferings referred to in verse 10?
FER They are connected with the atonement.
WB Would you exclude all other sufferings?
FER I think so. He “was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death” (verse 9). It is all based on that. Then it is, He became perfect through sufferings.
WB It also says He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
FER That is Himself. Priesthood must be based on righteousness. That is what I understand by, “It became him, for whom are all things”. It would be impossible for God to bring many sons to glory without laying a foundation of righteousness. Therefore it became Him to make Him perfect through sufferings.
JSO I thought of His suffering in connection with His being able to sympathise, but perhaps you get that later.
FER Yes, but then it says “to make propitiation for the sins of the people”. I think that the prominent thought is that the priesthood should be based on righteousness.
Ques Has the crowning with glory and honour any reference to Aaron being clothed with the garments of glory and beauty?
FER It may have. It has been sometimes said that Aaron never put those garments on — he was forbidden to go into the holiest. The fact is, until Christ, no one could put those garments on.
Ques. Why were they made?
FER You get a perfect setting forth of the divine mind in every part of the tabernacle and its furniture, and the clothing and dress of the priests.
[p. 210] Moses had to make all those things for a testimony. God gave a testimony of things that should come afterwards.
SLJ It says they were put on Aaron on the day of his consecration.
FER Then they were never put on afterwards. Everything must be on the ground of righteousness. God has got to consult Himself in regard to the universe, and there would be no security for permanence of anything except on the ground of righteousness.
WB Of course, you must connect righteousness with God’s acts.
FER It is not only that, but divine righteousness is really the first principle of the universe. What can possibly be right if God has not got His rights? Any universe must be based on God’s righteousness. The abstract principle of righteousness existed long before God made the world. Angels must be governed by the righteousness of God.
HCA That is the basis of the exaltation of Christ — Thou “hast loved righteousness and hast hated lawlessness” (chapter 1).
FER Yes, because that is the basis on which the throne is established. Any one can understand righteousness if they put it in contrast to lawlessness. In any universe where lawlessness exists, things must be put out of gear. It would be a very poor thing if lawlessness existed in the solar system. The psalmist said, when he looked up to heaven — the heavens declare the glory of God.
DLH So it brings in the thought of rule?
FER Yes, what I understand by righteousness is the rights of God, and the rights of God rule. God is entitled to the supreme place in the affection of any intelligent creature. Who could gainsay that for [p. 211] a moment?
ASL Does it necessarily suppose the existence of evil to speak of righteousness.
FER No, not at all. Righteousness implies the rights of God. I would speak of lawlessness as a relative term, but if sin or lawlessness had never come in, righteousness would not have been relative. Who can doubt for a moment that before ever this world was made at all, holy angels had regard to the righteousness of God. They fulfilled beyond all doubt the principles of the law — “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God ...”.
ASL Was the question of righteousness never in the garden of Eden before the fall?
FER I think it was. It did not come into prominence until sin came out.
JSO It is very important to notice that there must be either righteousness or lawlessness.
FER Sin is lawlessness — departure from rule. Man passed out of the moral rule of God. Then you can very well understand that the first thought of God has been to bring back man under His moral sway, therefore the first principle of the gospel is the kingdom of God.
DLH If sin or lawlessness is departure from rule, that shows that rule must have been before the departure.
FER Quite so.
ASL In the eternal state righteousness will ever be prominent. It will dwell then and there will be no evil.
FER Quite so.
HAA I suppose lawlessness means a man is out of attachment.
FER Yes, like a wandering star.
HCA That characterises the present day.
FER I do not think anybody can look abroad at the present day without seeing it.
ASL When it says, “Thou hast loved righteousness” and “anointed thee ... above thy fellows” (chapter 1: 9) does that refer to His place amongst His own before the work was finished or in resurrection?
FER I think it is the place He has in His system of “all things”. I take it that the Lord will have companions in heaven and it is possible that He will have companions upon earth. You get the elect company who follow the Lamb, in Revelation.
ER I suppose the cross was the greatest testimony of His having loved righteousness and hated lawlessness?
FER Yes, I think so. Everything was in accord with the cross. That is one of the interesting points in connection with the Lord. Every act of the Lord’s ministry was in connection with the cross. The great end of the cross was to establish righteousness. He gave full place to the rights of God. But then on the other hand He himself took the place of the lawless man to abolish lawlessness, because He hated it. He had to take the place of what He hated.
ED Is it summed up in that petition in the Lord’s prayer — “Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven”?
FER I think so. By coming in to assert the rights of God, He takes away the sin of the world.
Ques He undoes the works of the devil?
FER Yes, because the works of the devil have been to a large extent to entangle the world. Take any man, there are things that are very beautiful. One must be very blind if he does not trace in man something of the creation of God. Look at the affection of a mother for a child — man and wife — that is not the devil, it is of God; but the terrible thing is that what is of God has been mixed up with lawlessness. The whole thing is spoiled by man having passed from under the moral rule of God.
[p. 213] JSO The Lord recognised it in the young ruler.
FER Yes. The point of recovery was right there before him, but he was not prepared to follow Him.
Ques How do you understand the 11th and 12th verses?
FER We are the ones set apart for holy use and evidently Christ is the One who sets apart — the Sanctifier and sanctified all of one, that is the most remarkable part of it — “all of one”.
HCA There must be the exclusion of lawlessness there.
FER I think so. Properly speaking, the moment a person is brought into attachment there is an end of lawlessness in principle. I mean attachment in the sense of bond, but it works into affection.
WB How does the figure of the heavens come in where it says “Abide in me”?
FER Well, I think you must accept the responsibility to abide as long as things are as they are down here. “Whosoever abideth in him” (you get that remarkable word) “sinneth not”.
ASL Do you take this “all of one” to be on the same line as abiding in Him?
FER It is the same principle, but the best thing I know is the figure employed in Scripture — Aaron and his sons — they were all of one. You can take a man up on the ground of his profession. A man may profess to be in Christ but the abiding is the test of it. For instance, we read, “You ... hath he reconciled ... if ye continue in the faith”.
ED Also in 1 John 2 it is “He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked”.
FER Yes, we must allow responsibility as long as we are down here.
ER The great point is to be kept in the spirit [p. 214] of dependence.
FER I think so. We are brought into attachment to Christ and the object of it is that we might bring forth fruit unto God. The object of the Spirit is to create affection.
JSO That is a very important point.
FER All affection is dependent on the Spirit because the Spirit makes us so sensible of the attraction in Christ. I suspect there are very few christians who have any adequate idea of the attraction that is in Christ. I think we so poorly appreciate Christ because we are so little aware of the attraction that is in Him. To qualify you for service, you want what is spoken of in Ephesians — “to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith”.