(1) THE TESTIMONY OF THE CHRIST IN ROMANS

(^[p. 459] 1) THE TESTIMONY OF THE CHRIST IN ROMANS

Romans 3: 21 - 31; Romans 16: 25 - 27

Rem You have said that every epistle presents Christ in some distinct way, and that the sum of these give the testimony of the Christ. We thought it would be nice if you would take this up in detail in the different epistles. You said that Romans presented Him as the mercy-seat; we might take up that tonight, and see the distinction between cleansing by blood and cleansing by water.

FER One great point is that what was kept secret in ages gone by is now made manifest to the nations for the obedience of faith. What was hitherto mystery is now made manifest. For instance, all that was set forth in the furniture of the tabernacle was mystery, it was not made manifest. There were figurative representations of certain things, but all was in mystery. The witness was there in them, but the meaning of them was kept secret. Now we have the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, and all is made manifest.

Ques Made manifest in the way of testimony, I suppose?

FER Yes, in the way of testimony. While the Lord was here upon earth everything looked on to the work He would accomplish, and to the place that He would take; but now all is accomplished, and Christ has taken the place that God intended He should take, and therefore everything is made manifest. Things were veiled while Christ was here in flesh — He was veiled; but now all the work is ^[p. 460] done, redemption is accomplished, Christ exalted on high and the Holy Spirit given, everything is made manifest. The apostle Paul comes in to this end, and he desired the prayers of the saints “that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel”. The glad tidings were concealed in the Old Testament, they were not made known.

Rem And those who wrote the Old Testament knew that they wrote for another age.

FER Yes.

Ques Does it not say the gospel was preached to Abraham?

FER What we get in regard to Abraham was the general idea that in him should all the nations of the earth be blessed, but even that was all mystery.

Rem What is presented today is preached with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven.

FER Quite so. We have now the ark of the covenant and the mercy-seat, and everything is made manifest in connection with the place which Christ has taken. If you take the sum total of the way in which Christ is presented in the various epistles, you have the testimony of the Christ. Romans is the moral beginning because there we have the ark of the covenant and the mercy-seat. The preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery is the ark of the covenant; and then God has set Him forth through faith in His blood as a propitiatory — a mercy-seat. You could not have the mercy-seat apart from the ark of the covenant; it formed the cover of the ark.

Rem God must secure His own glory before there could be anything for man.

FER Yes. The Righteous One has come in, and has accomplished righteousness, and founded upon that we have the mercy-seat. Christ is not ^[p. 461] only personally the Righteous One, but in Him there is redemption, and the mercy-seat is based on that. God puts Himself in relation to the universe in Him.

Ques Is that what the tabernacle shadowed?

FER Yes, the tabernacle foreshadowed what we get brought out now in the New Testament. It is important to recognize that in Romans we get Christ presented in a way that is peculiar to Paul, that is, as the last Adam. We are told in 1 Corinthians 15 that the last Adam is a life-giving Spirit, and that is brought out and enlarged upon in Romans. He has come in in the value of His own righteousness — in the value of accomplished redemption — every liability has been discharged, and the mercy-seat is founded on that.

Ques Does the expression “in his blood” give you the idea of every liability met?

FER Yes, the Righteous One has discharged every liability, and He now imparts the Spirit; He is the last Adam, the life-giving Spirit. As someone has said, there is excess; it is not only that liabilities have been met, but the last Adam is a life-giving Spirit; He communicates living water. The Lord did not speak to the woman in John 4 about her liabilities, but He said a great deal to her about the excess, He told her that He would communicate living water.

Rem A great deal of preaching does not go so far as that.

FER Well, I am afraid there is a good deal of preaching that leaves Christ out, though that may seem a hard thing to say.

Ques If they do not preach Christ, what do they preach?

FER The work of Christ; but it is the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery that is the testimony.

^[p. 462] Ques Will you say a little about the preaching of Jesus Christ?

FER The revelation of the mystery is the preaching of Jesus Christ as the centre and beginning of the universe of God. The tabernacle was the pattern of all things, as we get in Hebrews 3, but what was the centre of the tabernacle? The ark of the covenant and the mercy-seat. The tabernacle figuratively presented Christ in relation to all things; He is the One who will fill all things. The great point of the gospel is to detach people from this present world, and to attach them to Christ. No one is free of the world or free of lawlessness, until he is attached to Christ. The expression “all things” conveys the idea of a moral universe, and that universe was prefigured in the tabernacle; its beginning and centre is Christ, and the object in preaching is that souls may be detached from the world and brought into attachment to Christ as the beginning and centre of the moral universe.

Ques Is it not important to present His work also?

FER If Christ had not done the work He could not have taken up the position of centre of the moral universe. We must present Him in the value of His work — in the virtue of the blood of the everlasting covenant. People come into the sense of forgiveness, and think they have the Spirit as the seal of forgiveness, but that does not go far enough. The preaching of the gospel is not simply for that, but that persons may be brought into attachment to the One who is the centre of the moral universe.

Ques Would you say what you mean by attachment and detachment?

FER As the effect of sin having entered the world, man has become lawless in regard of God, but he has also become involved in the world system ^[p. 463] like the children of Israel in Egypt. The world is made up of the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life; it is not of the Father. Now the point of the gospel is to detach man from that system, and to bring him into bond to Christ who is the beginning and centre and sun of the moral universe. We come into attachment to Him just as the planets are in attachment to the physical sun.

Ques Do you mean that in mind and spirit you are free of the world?

FER Yes, and brought into attachment to Christ by the Spirit. If a man has the Spirit of Christ, then he is in Christ; if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is not of Him.

Ques Is it possible to get free of the world except by apprehending Christ as the centre of another system?

FER I think not. That brings us to the distinction between purgation by blood and purgation by water.

Ques What is the difference?

FER Purgation by blood is that a man may be free to approach God, but purgation by water is that he may be free of the world. The cleansing by blood gives a man a purged conscience, and sets him free to approach God.

Rem That side has been a good deal pressed that men might get the knowledge of forgiveness, but I do not think we hear much about the detachment side of things.

FER Well, I have grave doubts about the way in which forgiveness is sometimes preached. People get forgiveness at the present time in the witness of the Spirit. Forgiveness may be preached universally as setting forth what is in the mind of God for all men, but as to the individual apprehension of forgiveness, we come into it by the witness of the ^[p. 464] Spirit. A man wants forgiveness that he may approach God, that he may have a purged conscience. You cannot serve the Living God without a purged conscience, and the object of forgiveness is that you may approach the Living God.

Ques On what ground does one get the Spirit?

FER Consequent upon the belief of God’s testimony. God’s testimony has come out to men, and they are being tested by that testimony, and it is a very serious matter to reject it, but the testimony has no particular application to me, or to any other person; it is the setting forth of God’s mind to every one alike. But in believing the testimony we get the witness of the Spirit, and we have forgiveness in the witness of the Spirit. “in whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit”.

In the case of Israel they will get the forgiveness of sins administratively, so that they may have a happy life down here upon earth in the very place in which they were sinners. They will be forgiven that they may serve God without fear in righteousness and holiness all the days of their life, and all will be based upon the mercy-seat.

Ques Is the witness of the Spirit to the forgiveness of sins internal, or through the word?

FER The witness brings home the word to me, but the witness is internal.

Ques Is it possible to have the witness of the Spirit, and not be attached to Christ?

FER No; because the Spirit attaches to Christ, and we are joined to the Lord in that way. We receive living water, and are attached to Christ as the last Adam.

Ques Does the cleansing by water come in subsequently to the cleansing by blood?

FER I think baptism is the figure of cleansing by water; the reality is the moral power of the word in the soul by the Spirit.

^[p. 465] Ques In dealing with troubled souls it is often found that the real difficulty is the question of their sins. How would you meet such?

FER Well, to a timid soul I would say, Why should you be troubled about your sins when God’s mind is forgiveness of sins for every man? Christ is the expression of it; He is the mercy-seat because God is addressing Himself to men in Him, not in prophets nor in any other man. Christ is the pledge of His mercy to all men; in His name repentance and remission of sins are preached. Christ is the last Adam, and the last Adam is the mercy-seat, and the mercy-seat is founded upon the Ark of the covenant.

Rem And now the preaching goes forth with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven.

Ques Might not the preaching be defective, and yet have power with it?

FER I am very thankful that conversions do not have to wait until the preaching is perfect, but if we are wrong I think we ought to desire to be set right.

Ques Do you think that defective preaching dwarfs souls?

FER Well, that used to be said when I first came into fellowship. I am sure that people are very much affected by first impressions. Mr. Darby used to say that to attempt to build on a revival conversion was like trying to build on the edge of a knife.

Ques Will you say a word as to the place of repentance in connection with the proclamation?

FER You present the glad tidings of repentance and remission of sins. The object in preaching repentance is that men may come into the forgiveness of sins. Man is under obligation to repent; I would not weaken that for a moment; but God has opened the door for repentance to man. If there were no forgiveness of sins there would be no door of repentance open to man, God’s mind in regard to every man is forgiveness, and Christ is the pledge of it. If it were not so there would be no door of repentance. You could not preach forgiveness without repentance, but Christ is the mercy-seat, and in Christ God is propitious to every man, and that opens the door of repentance to every man. I would not say that God is propitious to an apostate, but apart from apostasy God is propitious to every man in the world.

Ques Do repentance and faith go together?

FER Yes, they are bound to go together. The goodness of God leads to repentance, and the moment the testimony of forgiveness is accepted repentance comes in. When God approaches man He always comes on the ground of forgiveness of sins, because that is what man needs; then the recognition on my part that I need forgiveness brings me to repentance. There is no true repentance apart from faith. Before the prodigal said, “I will arise and go to my father”, there was evidently faith in his father. Unless he had some idea of his father’s forgiveness he would never have gone home.

Ques Is Christ the subject of the testimony?

FER Yes, Christ is the testimony. Scripture speaks of the testimony of the Christ. It is the testimony of our Lord because He is the Administrator, but the testimony is of the Christ. The Christ is the expression and pledge of the mercy of God towards all men. He is the centre and sun of the moral universe, but He is that because He is the expression of God’s mind for all men. I have been thinking of it in connection with Luke 10. He sees Satan as lightning fall from heaven, and then He says, “Rejoice that your names are written in the heavens” and then afterwards, “All things have been delivered to me by my Father”. The moral universe is delivered of the Father to the Son, and “^[p. 467] no one knows who the Son is but the Father, and who the Father is but the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son is pleased to reveal him”, The Father is revealed by the Son, and then you get what I was speaking about, that Christ is the witness and pledge of God’s mercy. He shows mercy, and then He says, ‘If you have found your neighbour, go and do likewise’. The Good Samaritan has come in, and in result the mercy of God is going to fill the universe. Jew and gentile will both come into blessing on the ground of mercy; the Good Samaritan is the pledge of it. The beginning of the moral universe is showing mercy, and it ought to begin there with us also.

Ques You would say that those whom Christ fills must do likewise?

FER Yes. “Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful”. The Good Samaritan has come in as the pledge of perfect goodness and mercy in God, and if you have found your neighbour, “Go, and do thou likewise”. Christ has come in as man’s neighbour, to give the impulse to mercy, and mercy will yet fill the universe.

Ques Are the glad tidings of the Christ the same as the testimony?

FER It is the Christ presented as glad tidings. The particular way in which Christ is presented in Romans is as the One who declares God. That is the point of the mercy-seat.

Rem And in order to secure man for Himself.

FER God has declared Himself, but in such a way that He secures man for Himself. He declares His righteousness in the forgiveness of sins so that He may gain the heart of man.

Rem So that now everything is open to man.

FER Yes; God has declared Himself in the mercy-seat, and put Himself in contact with man. Then we have to consider another point, and that is, “But that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens”. The One who descended is the same One who ascended. That is, in Him we have the witness that God is declared on the one hand, and of the Priest on the other. He ascended as having led captivity captive, but the epistle to the Ephesians identifies the One who ascended with the One who descended. The declaration of God is perfect in Christ having descended, and approach to God is perfect because Christ has ascended. His priestly access to God is as great as the declaration. We come in as kindred to the High Priest, like Aaron and his sons. “Through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father”.

Rem In having these two things God has obtained all that He set Himself for.

FER Yes; if you look at Christ you have both perfectly; the only way is to look to Christ.

Rem So it says, “Consider the Apostle and High Priest”.

FER You may depend upon it, that is an uncommonly good thing to do; you never get much good from considering yourself.

Ques What is the difference between the gospel concerning His Son, as in chapter 1, and what we have here, a propitiatory through faith in His blood?

FER Everything hangs upon who the last Adam is, and the last Adam is the Son of God, a life-giving Spirit. He came of David’s seed according to the flesh, but He is declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead. It is only the Son of God who could come on that line; He must have the Spirit of life at His disposal, so to speak, if He is to communicate it. Christ is the last Adam, and you must identify the ^[p. 469] last Adam with the Son of God, for only the Son of God could dispense the Spirit.

Ques Can you not find the testimony in Genesis? You have said nothing as to that book.

FER Well, you could not find Christ presented there as the sun and centre of a new system. It is in Exodus, where we find the ark of the covenant, and all that was connected with it, that we get a figure of the testimony of the Christ. Exodus is God’s approach to man, and Leviticus is man’s approach to God. Redemption had not come in even in figure in Genesis, but when redemption came in figuratively in the case of the children of Israel coming out of Egypt, God gave a figure of the whole universe which He would establish. There are hints of what God would do, as in the promise to Abraham, “In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed”, but after all it is only a hint.

Ques Is the testimony always as to what is going to be displayed?

FER Romans all goes on the line of what is going to be displayed. The first part is that the effect of God’s glad tidings in the declaration of His righteousness is to bring the church to light, but in connection with their reigning in life with Him. Then chapter 11 shows how Israel will be brought in again on the ground of mercy. Eternal life will be the reward of those who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honour, incorruptibility; and wrath will come out from God on those who do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness.

God has been pleased to declare in Christ the rights of mercy, and the fidelity of His promises; Christ is the expression and pledge of both. He is the pledge of mercy because He has accomplished redemption, but there shall come a deliverer out of Zion who shall turn away iniquity from Jacob, and Christ is the pledge of that too, it is a wonderful ^[p. 470] thing that God has come out in mercy, and that the testimony is the rights of God in mercy, and the Spirit of God has come to bring men into attachment to the moral centre which God has provided. It is in that way that men are delivered from this present evil world.

There will be a universe characterised by the righteousness and faithfulness of God. Everything will be put under the feet of the Son of man; the moral light of that universe — the righteousness and faithfulness of God — shines forth from Him. All that is declared in the mercy-seat.

Rem In the tabernacle everything came under the anointing, and I suppose that all things will come under the anointed Man.

FER Yes, everything comes under the power of the Spirit. The Lord is the test of the christian; the testimony presents Him as the Christ, but the one who believes the testimony confesses Him as Lord.