THE SPIRIT FORMATIVE OF CHRIST IN US
[p. 298] THE SPIRIT FORMATIVE OF CHRIST IN US
Ques I would like to ask why the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Christ.
FER As far as I understand it, the expression is characteristic. There is another expression in the same verse which may be compared with it — “Ye are not in flesh but in Spirit, if indeed God’s Spirit dwell in you”. It is the same Spirit, presented in different connections.
Ques Would you say that the Spirit is formative of Christ in the saints?
FER Yes, He is the formative power.
Rem What I think is remarkable with regard to the Spirit is that He did come down upon man here, and He was connected with man in perfection in Christ, and now He can be formative of Christ in us. It is wonderful that He came down in connection with man in Christ. Everything that could be from man to God was there. The Spirit did not add anything to Christ, but He came upon that Man.
Rem If there is anything in us of Christ, it is by the Spirit’s work.
Rem You could not have Christ without the Spirit, and in the same way you could not have the Spirit without Christ. Here we have the Spirit as life, in Colossians Christ as life. You cannot have life apart from the Spirit or Christ.
Rem The tenth verse follows the ninth — “If Christ be in you, the body is dead on account of sin, but the Spirit life ..”..
FER Quite so. The Spirit came down upon the Man before God, and could link Himself with every thought and expression in Him.
Rem The Spirit identifies Himself with every part of the delivered condition. In the second part of [p. 299] Romans 8 it is the Spirit as distinct from us — the Spirit of life and liberty in Christ.
Rem The Spirit of sonship and liberty.
Ques How is it that the Spirit carries on the formative work in us?
FER That leads us to the body or the collective thing. The church expresses that in which Christ is seen.
Rem You do not get that in Romans 8.
Rem But it is leading up to that.
Rem That would not be formed in the church collectively if not in individuals. “The Spirit life”. “The perfecting of the saints; with a view to the work of the ministry, with a view to the edifying of the body of Christ”. The “perfecting of the saints” is the first thing.
Ques What does “sealed” mean in the expression, “Him hath God the Father sealed”?
FER There was only one Man before God who could be sealed. A great many came to John’s baptism, and there man (as such) went out of sight, and God immediately put His seal upon Christ. He was the only Man before God.
Rem It was a mark of God’s delight.
FER Yes, my impression is that man (as such) went out of sight completely before God.
Ques Would the blood on the leper in Leviticus 14 bear the meaning that one goes out of sight before the oil is applied?
FER Certainly. God cannot seal the flesh. It involves practical displacement in the case of believers.
Ques Is ‘sealing’ for God, or for us?
FER For God. It is a kind of manifestation. It answers to the circumcision in Abraham. Circumcision means the cutting off of the flesh. He got it in consequence of righteousness.
Ques Does not ‘sealed’ give a sense of security?
FER It was a kind of manifestation on the part of God, but it is really my displacement. “Ye are not in flesh but in Spirit”. The very fact of being sealed shews that.
Rem Blood is the witness that man in the flesh has been set aside.
Ques Would you say a word in regard to the flesh in contrast to the Spirit? Will you explain the two conditions?
FER The flesh is the lawlessness of man, while, on the other hand, the revelation of love brings God in. So far as the flesh is allowed, man is lawless, but then it is contemplated that there would be appreciation of God’s revelation. I do not think God declared Himself for nothing; everything for God (so far as man was concerned) consisted in how far God’s revelation was appreciated. God asserts His supreme right to come into the affections of man, but man says, ‘You shall not’. The flesh, that is lawless man, will shut God out.
Ques What is the difference morally between the old and the new?
FER The old man “corrupts itself according to the deceitful lusts”, the new man is “after God”. The old man is governed by lust, the new man is created after God in righteousness and holiness; he is ruled by the law of God.
Rem “The mind of the Spirit life and peace”.
FER Yes. Nothing goes on in the moral universe that is not under the influence of moral laws. It is a principle of divine arrangement universally — everything is subject to law.
Ques What is the difference between “in Christ” and “in the Spirit”?
FER It is Christ in contrast with Adam, and the Spirit in contrast with [p. 301] the flesh.
Rem The two are identified in this chapter.
FER Exactly so. I do not think there is any abiding in Christ except by the Spirit.
Ques Do we get in the expression “in Christ” what is subjective, and “in the Spirit” what is objective?
FER No, they are both subjective.
Ques Is it experimental also?
FER It cannot be apart from experience. Every one that has the Spirit is in Christ.
Ques Is a person that is “sealed” in Christ?
FER Yes, in the sealing of the Spirit.
Ques In the expression, “There is then now no condemnation”, is there reference to the condemnation spoken of in chapter 7?
FER I think so. The ministry of law is the ministry of condemnation.
Ques Is that an experimental condition of things?
FER Yes, condemnation is experimental. There is no condemnation “in Christ”. Law came in as the ministry of condemnation. Chapter 7 is answered in 8 — no condemnation. If you are on Adam’s line, you are under condemnation.
Ques Would you explain the distinction between being in Christ in the eye of God, as true of all Christians, and in the consciousness of one’s own soul?
FER A Christian is in Christ thousands of years before he is born.
Ques Is it “no condemnation” on the part of God, or on the part of one’s conscience?
FER On the part of one’s conscience. It is in contrast with what comes out in 7. There are three great questions in Romans to be met — sin, law and flesh, in 6, 7 and 8 respectively — to all of which man is in bondage naturally, and the answers to these are, “dead to sin and alive to God”, married to Christ, and “not in the flesh, but in the Spirit”.
[p. 302] Rem You get the answer to the latter part of 7 in the first few verses of 8. Sin and law were looked at objectively, in 8 you get the subjective side.
Ques I think you have said that the ministry of condemnation existed before law?
FER Law ministers both condemnation and death; the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Ques Will you tell us the difference between “judgment” and “condemnation”?
FER “Judgment” is more a judicial term, and “condemnation” moral.
Ques Do we get “condemnation” elsewhere?
FER I think in “Has no one condemned thee?” Condemnation morally precedes what is judicial.
Ques I would like to ask a question as to the difference between anointing and sealing in 2 Corinthians 1: 21, 22?
FER “Stablisheth” means firmly attaches us to Christ; the “anointing” means intelligence in divine things; “sealed” is for the inheritance, and the earnest of the Spirit is the pledge of it. You cannot enjoy the inheritance till you get it, but you can enjoy the pledge. Circumcision was a sign or seal to Abraham, and the Spirit is the seal of righteousness, the putting off the flesh, which must be cut off. The Spirit means that to the christian.
Rem Mr. Stoney said that what 2 Corinthians 1: 21 conveyed to him was power, security, intelligence, and enjoyment, all by the Spirit.
Ques What is the difference between Christ being in you, and your being in Christ?
FER Christ being in you refers to the practical condition of the Christian. “If Christ be in you, the body is dead on account of sin, but the Spirit life on account of righteousness” ([p. 303] verse 10).
Ques What is the force of the body being dead.
FER It is held in the place of death. The Spirit is life in view of righteousness, we come under the sway or law of God. Righteousness is the law of the moral universe. You are withdrawn from lawlessness. You cannot separate righteousness and life.
Ques Would you say that righteousness was consistency with relation to God and man?
FER I would not say that exactly.
Rem Practical righteousness is doing the law of God.
Rem It is what is due to God and us in consistency with the relations between us.
FER It is not a question of relations.
Ques “The Spirit is life on account of righteousness”. Does that mean “in order that there may be” righteousness?
FER It is expressed in righteousness — but in the enjoyment of it, you do not get life apart from righteousness. It is the well of water springing up. You love God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself. What lay behind the law was the love of God, though Israel did not see it. He commanded them to love Him and to love their neighbour. We can see the love of God coming out through all Scripture. When man is righteous, all will be fully carried out.
Ques Will that be in the millennium or in eternity?
FER In eternity. There are the new heavens and the new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Ques Do others besides the redeemed, such as angels, know the love of God?
FER I do not think angels know it. All this leads on to eternal life; a great deal hangs on “the Spirit of life”.
Ques Will you explain the difference between life and eternal life?
FER [p. 304] The Spirit is a well that springs up into eternal life — the Spirit brings you into it. You cannot separate life and eternal life. Eternal life lies the other side of death. In association with Christ you reach the other side of death. You cannot bring Christ to this side of death.
Ques Is verse 14 characteristic?
FER Yes. You have the Spirit of sonship before you come into the reality of being sons of God. Sonship brings in the idea of association with Christ. Many a child of God knows it, but has not arrived at it in its reality.
Ques What is the difference between a child and a son?
FER Every Christian is a child, and the Spirit bears witness. Sonship means association with Christ where Christ is. The Spirit of sonship is connected with both, but He is spoken of as the Spirit of God’s Son.
Ques Would you explain verses 9 and 10 — the Spirit in you, and Christ in you?
FER They are two distinct things, it is the Spirit as life and the Spirit as witness to bring in the consciousness of association with Christ.
Ques What is the Spirit of adoption, verse 15?
FER The Spirit of sonship; a Christian who has the Spirit is led on to sonship.
Rem If he does not grieve the Spirit.
FER I think so.
Ques Does Romans lead as far as eternal life?
FER No; but it is on the road to it.
Rem “The end eternal life”.
FER The moral end — it led in the direction of eternal life. If you reach Christ where He is, you reach eternal life. The Spirit has come to conduct us to where Christ is, not to take us to heaven. It is Christ who takes us to heaven at His coming. We [p. 305] are either raised or changed, but, in the meantime, the Spirit conducts us to Christ where He is now.
Rem We are risen with Christ.
FER Yes, risen and quickened.
Ques Would the Spirit be represented by Joshua — to lead into fellowship with Christ’s death, circumcision, and the old corn of the land?
FER Yes. Christ comes to us, but not in the wilderness. He makes advances to us. “In the midst of the assembly ..”.
Rem “I will come to you”.
FER Yes.
Ques That is the holiest?
FER Yes.
Ques Where do we spend the rest of the week?
FER In the wilderness, where you have the help and support of the Spirit. “The kingdom of God is ... righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit”. Priesthood comes in in sympathy and succour of the Spirit. We become conscious of the love of God through the Spirit.
Ques Do we get to Canaan?
FER If you come to Christ, you come to Canaan.
Ques. It is not heaven?
FER No. I am sure the Spirit of God would lead us there. We are in a scene of distance down here. It is no part of God’s purpose, but His ways, as J.N.D. said. We have to come under it. The other side is in connection with the High Priest.
Ques Canaan is not corporate?
FER Well, I think it is. The Spirit brings in the body — “In the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body”. That is evidently corporate.
Rem Romans 8 does not go so far as that.
FER No, it does not go beyond what [p. 306] is individual.
Rem You set immense store upon the assembly.
FER Well, I do. It is the light of God’s purpose. The body is the great subject of the purpose of God for the moment, “the edifying of the body of Christ”. You come into the scene of glory where divine love can rest, in complacency, on all that is before Him.