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SPIRITUAL ACTIVITY

JT In considering these scriptures I thought that we might be led to see that the divine thought is that all the saints should be active. I had in mind, particularly, verses 15 and 16 of Ephesians 4, which contemplate an organism. The earlier part of the chapter indicates what corresponds with the natural or physical creation; there is an order of things established: “One body and one Spirit ... one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all”. We have an order of things indicated corresponding with the physical order of things. That is, God has provided from His side what we may speak of as light, and heat, and atmosphere — everything that is necessary — but these conditions have to be taken up, and each one has to become industrious in order that there should be growth and progression; in a word, spiritual independency. It is in utilising what God has so bountifully provided in nature that men live and provide for themselves what is necessary, and so I think in the spiritual order of things it is in utilising what God has made available so bountifully that we develop and become spiritually rich and independent. It says, “To each one of us has been given grace” (Ephesians 4:7).

HW In view of our finding our place in relation to the whole?

JT Yes.

Ques When you speak of being independent, you do not mean independent of one another?

JT No, it is an independent organism. There is absolute mutual dependence in an organism, but ^[p. 125] verses 15 and 16 indicate that there is independence of what is outside — what is in this world.

HW Is grace given to us in order that we might act in connection with these three circles of blessing, which are mentioned here?

JT Yes, I think these three circles of blessing may be taken to represent the general conditions in which we may become successfully industrious. There is every prospect of success. We all know that in prospecting in colonial life we take into account all the conditions, the heat, and the possible rain, the fertility of the soil, etc., so that, taking account of all these things as favourable, you reasonably decide that by application and industry you are sure to be successful. I think these things which are mentioned, these three circles and the grace given to every one of us, furnish conditions that ensure success if we are at all industrious. Then in addition to these general conditions, you have the gifts as additional helps.

WJY I think we need to be stirred up as to spiritual energy. The lack of balance in the presentation of the gospel, the insisting on the pure grace of the gospel, has led us, perhaps, to think that energy was never required. We say, “Cast your deadly doing down” and we go on these lines for the rest of our lives.

JT That means we are parasites spiritually, of whom there are a great many. And perhaps we are parasites, with the assumption that it is according to God to be a parasite, but the divine intent is that we should be industrious, and contribute to the general prosperity of the assembly.

HW The book of Proverbs will help on that line.

JT That is the reason I turned to it, because it works up to what we get in the last chapter. It points out the sluggard, the lazy man, and then over against that, the faithful, industrious man.

^[p. 126] Ques Would you say the industrious man gets spiritual support — he learns to stand alone?

JT Yes. You have so much in your favour. See how bountifully God has provided for us in the physical system. There is the sun rising every morning, with its light and heat, reaching everywhere. There is nothing hid from the heat of it. And then there is an atmosphere so fresh and health-giving. It is all provided in the most infinite bounty. And then the rain comes down unsolicited, and the earth is fertile. God has created conditions on the earth with which we have had nothing to do. All the conditions are there, but man is to be on the scene, and it is for him to utilise them, and, of course, he does. But how about it spiritually? There is not one of us but has some employment. One of the first things a person capable of working wants to know is what he is going to do, what is to be his work. It is as natural as anything. But does it work this way spiritually?

LBB I suppose if we were industrious we would become contributors?

JT A young believer asks, “What is my employment to be?” that is the first thing. Then the second is that he turns to the Lord about it, and it soon appears that there is plenty of work for him, and that grace is provided, because it says, “To each one of us has been given grace” (verse 7). And then you see how bountifully God has provided spiritual things, corresponding to the things which are in the physical creation: light, heat, atmosphere, and even soil, because one can begin with oneself. If one is to produce a crop, one has to begin with oneself, and begin sowing to the Spirit. As the believer learns to sow in himself, he learns to cast his seed a little further out, and so he becomes productive. General productiveness leads to riches in the “Commonwealth”.

HW We have been led to believe that activity ^[p. 127] with a young soul recently brought into blessing has sometimes been injurious as to the work of God in the soul.

JT I think one begins in oneself, because that is a bit of territory which no one can dispute. You have your own self or body. That is, according to Romans 12:1, the first thing that you are to surrender. “Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable”. One begins with one’s own self, and if you cultivate that little bit, more ground will be available. You see here that the virtuous woman acquires a field. She extends her industry. If I develop the little bit that no one can dispute, then it will soon become apparent that I am able to develop more, that I have some farming ability, so to speak. It says in Isaiah 28:26 of the farmer, that “his God doth instruct him”.

HW Do you suggest that our activities in connection with industry in divine things should be with a view to accumulating wealth for ourselves?

JT Yes. It all leads up to verses 15 and 16, where you have the body in its automatic activity, self-acting.

WC Before we enter into the activities, the last phrase of verse 1 would come in, “Walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called”.

JT Quite. In fact the apostle Paul’s position, as a prisoner in the Lord, is a help, because it suggests that however limited we may be in the government of God, we may still be productive. He was a prisoner. He was a prisoner in the Lord. One may be in circumstances that are extremely trying, as his were, but it is “in the Lord”, and one can reckon that if it is “in the Lord”, the Lord will come in. So that, however trying the circumstances may be, I may still be productive, as Paul was.

WJY The illustration of nature is very helpful, because all the activities of man are connected with ^[p. 128] the gifts of God. There is no activity of man in manufacturing or commerce but what is directly in connection with the gifts of God; even the very breath he breathes.

CSS If there was not this spiritual industry you would say we are on losing ground? “Taken even that which he seemeth to have” (Luke 8:18).

JT Just so, and we are obliged to live on others.

EB Is not this where the wrestling we were speaking of in a previous reading comes to light? The one who has wrestled is prepared to take up the interests of Christ in the assembly.

JT Then there is a word in 2 Thessalonians 3:10, “If any man does not like to work, neither let him eat”. That is literal, but there is this in it, that everyone should be employed. There is something for everyone to do, and if one is not doing it, then he is remiss. Let him admit that, anyway.

JW What would be the general indications of what the Lord had fitted us to do? Some of us spend nearly all our lives in trying to find out what our special line is. We aspire to the showy things. Will you give some indications as to how the ordinary believer can find out what he is fitted for?

JT The first thing would be to get a hold in our souls of the general divine conditions which are indicated in these three circles: “One body and one Spirit, as ye have been also called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all”. There you are set in relation to a universal order of things — an ever-widening circle, and in the very widest sense — a circle connected with the Father who is said to be in us all. I am, therefore, in connection with the universal order of things, and the Father is over it. There is a universal circle over which the Father is,

^[p. 129] and He pervades it, just as Paul said in connection with the physical world, “In him we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28). That was said to unbelievers. But this, I apprehend, has reference to believers. The Father is not connected with unbelievers. God is, and everyone in the world lives and moves, and has his being in God. What a testimony that is! It is brought in in connection with the gospel, but this is not to unbelievers. It is for believers. We are connected with a universal order of things over which the Father is, and through which He is, and He is in us all, so that He is thus brought near to us, and within that there is the kingdom — one Lord, one faith, one baptism, meaning that things are in the hand of the Lord administratively, and baptism introduces me into that. I am in that, in active faith, and then within that there is the hope of the calling, and the one body, and the one Spirit. That is what you are coming to. The two external circles will go on into the world to come. But what he is coming to, is the one body and the one Spirit, and one hope. The other two subserve the inner thing, because that is what gives character at the present time; “the one body and the one Spirit, and the one hope of our calling”. We are brought thus into the midst of these circles that are all serving us. I draw upon them all, the Father and the Lord; and then I draw upon the brethren — the body. God administers these things in infinite freedom and richness, so that I do not need to do anything for them. It is all there, and as to light, it is there. I do not have to do anything for them, but when I come to the brethren, I see that there is much that I can do. The one body involves that I am bound up with the brethren organically, and if I default, I am damaging the whole, so that it is a serious matter. I am depriving them of my little bit, which could be compared to a screw missing in a piece ^[p. 130] of machinery.

HW Is Barnabas an example of what you are speaking of?

JT He came in at a remarkable time, when two great apostles, the most distinguished ones, Peter and John, had been serving, and they went to their own company. All that they were doing was to subserve the company. They went to their own company, and hence, great and distinguished as they were, they were merged as they went into the company, so that they all prayed. They all prayed, and the place was shaken where they were assembled (Acts 4:31). There was one mind and perfect unity, and all they had was in common. It was in entire accord with the principles we have here. There was a circle of unity. And then it says Barnabas sold his land and brought the price and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and was named by the apostles, “The son of consolation” (Acts 4:36,37).

WJY Is your thought here that we should be intelligent in what God is working for, and the resources that we have in connection with what He has provided, before our activities start?

JT I thought that. We see we have plenty of material to use in a general way, and not only that, but each one of us has got grace.

WG What is the measure of the gift of Christ?

JT There should be no cause of complaint, because it is the measure of His giving. He gives liberally. So that we come to what our brother suggests, the thought of each one finding his work.

WBP Does the thought of what our hands find to do come in?

JT I think it does. We soon discover what we can do effectively. The Lord indicates that.

WJY So that intelligence would be a large factor in guiding us as to what we can do?

JT Yes. I am sure you have found that. ^[p. 131] You discover what you are most effective in, and the saints usually afford a place to you.

TP With regard to that Scripture about the hand finding something to do, would you say that what the hand findeth to do would not be beyond the reach of that person?

JT Yes, it is at your hand.

JW It is the idea of the member and the body functioning easily. My feet could not do what my hand could do. In a certain way you do it naturally and easily.

JT It is not forced. The function of the eye is not forced. There is no competitor. That is how it works in the body of Christ. There is no competition. There is no need of competition, for one cannot do another’s work.

WJY No person in building a house would do his work properly unless he had the whole house in view, to change the illustration.

JT Just so.

Ques Would you say the moral conditions in us should be such that we are available for use?

JT Yes. Take an instance in the gospels. Peter’s wife’s mother was sick of a fever and the Lord touched her hand, meaning, that he intended as the fever left her, that she should be active. He touched her hand. I do not suppose it is a medical suggestion. The thought is that as the fever leaves she is to do something. The hand is a symbol of the power to work, so that as the fever left her she arose and ministered to them (Luke 4:39). “To them”. Not only to the Lord Himself, but to those who were with Him. In other words, she is ready to do anything for the saints without discrimination. She ministered to them.

HD Verses 15 and 16 say we hold the truth in love, and grow up into Him in all things. There ^[p. 132] must be a link upwards before there can be the link downwards.

JT In order to see the full bearing of the passage here, as the question of gift arises the Spirit immediately brings in the Lord as ascending and descending, because we should all have a model before us. Think of what it cost Him to bring all this about! And as you apprehend that, you see that love will serve; it is the very essence of love to serve.

Ques Do you think Peter’s wife’s mother was on wrong lines?

JT She describes a state of restlessness and complaining, a complaining person amongst the saints; whereas the thought is that we are to serve one another — “by love serve one another” (Galatians 5:13). And she served them all.

WW The moral conditions which are a matter of exhortation in this chapter were expressed in Acts 4. They were all of one mind, and endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit. If these conditions prevailed at the beginning, we should expect to see the same conditions in evidence at the end.

JT They were well-off spiritually, and otherwise, too.

Ques This would be in contrast to Martha being cumbered with much serving?

JT You mean encumbered with much serving, to the exclusion of drawing from the Lord. If one is encumbered with much serving, he is not drawing from the Head. What you get here is the supply from Christ, from whom the whole body gets increase (Ephesians 4:16). One has to be intelligent as to one’s place and function, and thus there is a continual flow from the Head.

CSS If we were connected in that way, with the Head, and there was intelligence, there would not be the feverish activity you have drawn our attention ^[p. 133] to.

JT No; you know what you should do, and you do it.

WJY I like that thought as to no competition. If each one of us is doing his part, the part God has given him to do, there is no thought of anyone else being able to do it.

JT No; so that when we come to Proverbs, we have the aggregate of the saints in type acting, and I do not suppose you could get any such illustration anywhere of collective activity in dignity and liberty, and with results. She acts in intelligence and dignity, and yet with industry, not recoiling from the most menial thing, and yet her dignity is there, and the results are there.

HW She has her husband’s interests at heart. Is that the secret of it?

JT Yes, she is a woman of worth. The assembly develops in this way in its members, as it were. As we fall in, and know our niche, and fulfil our function, there then appears this feature of worth, which has no peer. She is without an equal, showing that the assembly, from this point of view, in the way of industry, is employing materials that are available.

TP Would you say that she was working up to her full measure, but not beyond it? Should we not all know our own measure, and never seek to go beyond it?

JT That is what should be before us. If we have this before us we have arrived collectively in some measure at correspondence with this picture in Proverbs. The Lord is looking for something in the saints collectively to suggest it. He says, “Who can find a woman of worth?” The Lord scans the whole baptised profession to see this thing working out. This is what He is looking for. He has provided all the material, and all the conditions, but now the thing has to be worked out. The woman is the counterpart ^[p. 134] of the man. It is Christ femininely, as it were. All this came out in Him on earth, and now, “Who can find a woman of worth?”

WJY The natural illustration is that a wife’s activities are in connection with what her husband has provided.

JT Just so.

WG “Her husband also, and he praiseth her”.

JT “Her price is far above rubies”. There is nothing to compare with her, and that, I think, helps us to see that in a little meeting, however small it is, in the Lord’s eye where saints are working together in the things he has provided, there is some little suggestion of this woman of worth. He is looking for this. In the addresses to the assemblies He finds something like it in Philadelphia. There is the suggestion of it there.

HD In Ephesians grace is given according to the measure of the gift of Christ, and in Romans it works out in detail according to the measure.

JT Yes, “the measure of faith” there. It says, “The heart of her husband confideth in her”. It seems to me that these conditions being present in any locality, the Lord would commit something. There would be something committed. I have no doubt we should have more light and development of truth if the Lord had more confidence in us. In John’s gospel it says that the Lord did not commit Himself to certain people. There are those to whom He cannot commit Himself, but the assembly normally is the confidante of the Lord, and wherever we correspond, we come into His secrets. “The heart of her husband confideth in her”. What an immense thing it is to be in the secrets of the Lord! He can give you something to keep for Him.

Ques Would you say the activities of this woman illustrate affection for her husband?

JT ^[p. 135] That is the thought of the assembly. She is a woman of worth, and this works out in localities.

WJY It would imply that our exercises and thoughts are towards the Lord — not on selfish lines.

JT Quite.

Ques Does He give something to each individual to keep?

JT Here it is the assembly itself. It works out through individuals, but I think that wherever the person is who has the thing, He would accredit it to the company. The address to Philadelphia would prove that.

Ques Would this reflect what is in the Lord’s mind?

JT Quite. The heart of her husband safely trusts in her. You do not hold anything back from your wife. “The heart of her husband”. If you take the Romish system, it has proved faithless to Christ. The most precious things that were committed have been allied with idolatry. She had been trusted, but she betrayed the trust. The most precious thought, i.e., the Lord’s supper, is allied with the most idolatrous practices. She has not kept her trust. Many other things, too, which are strictly right in the abstract, are connected with what is bad.

WJY Do you think the root of that lies in the lack of general exercise?

JT I am sure it does.

WJY I think everywhere we feel the need of stressing that. There is such a readiness for some to think they have not much to do, and to look to a few to keep things going.

JT What is suggested in the woman of worth is that it is the company moving as one person; as the Lord addresses Philadelphia, all is accredited to the company. “She doeth him good, and not evil, all the days of her life”. It is a very great challenge to us here as to whether we have been always doing ^[p. 136] good to the Lord, or whether we have done Him any damage. Whether we have dishonoured His name, or interfered with the work of God in the company we are connected with. It challenges our hearts. “She doeth him good, and not evil, all the days of her life”.

EB That exercise should be in connection with every movement in the different spheres in which we live.

JT Quite. You may do Him harm in your business, and in the family.

Ques . Is that why the apostle Paul used the words, “I beseech you” (Romans 12:1)?

JT You are to present your bodies. You are given up unqualifiedly. How easily we may do Him harm by not falling into line with what He is doing in the company! The most fruitful source of harm lies in insubjection. It is quite impossible to have an organism spiritually without subjection, so that we are enjoined to be subject one to another in the fear of Christ. Not only subject to the Lord, but to one another in His fear, otherwise we are not in the organism. We are deranging things.

Ques Is that where authority comes in in connection with what you were saying on Saturday? The twelve were with the Lord.

JT Yes. It says the assembly is subjected to Christ. That is the normal position of the assembly — she is subject to Christ. Without subjection all these things are impossible.

Ques Supposing a brother makes a demand on me that I do not feel happy in fulfilling. I may think the demand is not right, and I might not be free to do it?

JT It would become apparent if a suggestion is made, or a demand as to your personal work, whether it is of God or otherwise.

WJY Brethren, as such, are not often ^[p. 137] wrong.

JT No. They usually have the mind of God, and, therefore, in this epistle much is made of subjection. In fact, the whole book of Proverbs is worked out on that line, because it is really “the kingdom of the Son of his love” (Colossians 1:13). It is worked out in one in whom the love of God is, so that authority is placed in the book of Proverbs, where it is least irritating. It is placed in One who addresses us as “sons”. He has the affection of the Father. But there must be subjection.

EB The thought of subjection is connected with the figure of the woman in Proverbs. All that she does is in the light of what her husband is here.

JT Yes. In Ephesians those in a position of subjection — wives and children and servants — are especially taken account of, because those who are in subjection are most likely to be acted upon by the devil. So the husband is to love the wife, and the father is not to provoke the child, or the master the servant. They are to be considerate, so as to bring about subjection, and shut out the enemy. Where subjection is required the one who is to be subject is apt to be provoked, so that the utmost care is to be exercised in order to avoid undue provocation.

WC What is the spiritual meaning of verse 23? “Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land”.

JT That is the general result. “When he sits among the elders of the land” is a millennial suggestion. That is the general result of her virtue and industry. Christ is known. He is known in the assembly, but in the details you have what is most practical. “She seeketh wool and flax”. Things that may be needed may not be just available. They are somewhere, however. They may not be right to hand, so that special exertions are needed, and she seeketh them. If a certain commodity is needed she is not content — she will get ^[p. 138] it.

JW Barnabas did that when he went to find Paul. He felt there was a need at Antioch. Did Barnabas recognise that Paul was in advance of him in spirituality?

JT I think he knew that Paul was the man for what was needed at Antioch.

JW The outcome of Paul’s work was that they were called “Christians” there on account of the heavenly teaching.

JT Yes, they took on the Lord’s name there. There they were called Christians. Her husband was known in the gate there. The wool and the flax would be ‘raw material’. Saul had to labour a year in Antioch before he was commissioned.

JS Is the wool to produce the warmth amongst the saints?

JT Yes, and the flax produces sobriety. Too much wool would produce too much heat, and too much flax would produce too much cold, but a combination maintains a right atmosphere. You are not unduly exhilarated, and you are not unduly depressed. These are two commodities which are of great importance in the mind of the virtuous woman. She seeks for them. In the assembly there is that which takes account of raw material. All young Christians are raw material. They might as well accept it. They have to go through the processes, in order to be of value to the Lord’s people. Then it says, “She ... worketh willingly with her hands”, etc. She knows how to develop these two commodities.

HW There is a tendency with a local company, whilst we are all very much alive to the conditions and the lack, to be occupied with the conditions instead of putting our hands to it.

JT The first thing is to get the raw material. You may have the most skilled spinner and weaver, but a meeting will necessarily die out and disappear unless the raw material is available. Raw material ^[p. 139] is found by evangelisation. You go out and get souls, and then you get them set to work, so that there is the product which is needed.

HD “She is like the merchants’ ships: she bringeth her food from afar”.

JT The raw material is what every meeting needs, otherwise there can be no continuance, because, in ordinary circumstances, old people pass away — the Lord takes them; and I think a good illustration of raw material is Saul of Tarsus. I do not know of a better. The Lord took him up, knowing him before, and He sought him. She sought out the wool and the flax. He was subject to the Lord. He was what you might call potentially what the saints needed just then. The twelve had worked, and Stephen had done his work, and Philip was working, and others were working, but this one was needed, so that the Lord brings him down. He is not really raw material fitted for the process until the Lord has to do with him. It is a sovereign act of the Lord’s. The Lord does no more; He brings him down; he falls to the earth. He is subject. He says, “Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?” The Lord did not tell him. He had to learn from the brethren first, so that Ananias says, “Arise, and be baptised, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16). He gets the Spirit, but he needs more than that. He has to wait for a considerable time before he is actually employed in a formal way, because he had to go through the needed education.

WJY Would you say the Lord makes the raw material, and we have to seek it?

JT Yes.

HW Is the seeking done by the evangelist?

JT Yes.

HW And the other part of the work is in the assembly?

JT Yes. Isaac smells Jacob, and he says, “See,

^[p. 140] the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the Lord hath blessed” (Genesis 27:27). That is the potentiality of a young brother or a young sister. The crop is not there yet, but you discern the possibility of it.

Ques Does not the fine linen come from the flax?

JT As a fabric, linen is intended as a type of what is sobering, because it is cooling. The priests had to wear linen fabric next their flesh, as they were not to be excited naturally. A priest has to be very careful that he does not allow natural excitement. The use of linen in the house of God is a type of that which sobers us. He was not to wear a woollen garment.

HW It would encourage us to take account of the young people as so much raw material for the assembly.

JT Yes, and “She is like the merchants’ ship: she bringeth her food from afar”. She goes further away. I suppose it is what comes from heaven. The bringing in of the food is by prayer. You get things from a long way by asking for them. Ministry may be had by praying for it. “She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens”. Everyone is provided for. There is no one omitted. The maidens know what they are to do for the whole day. They get the prospectus for the day. You are struck with the order and vigilance of it. Everything is in order. “She planteth a vineyard”. There is something now for God.

CSS Do we get that in John 15?

JT That is the suggestion. It is for God. A vineyard. She acquires a wider sphere of operation, and it is for God. She planteth a vineyard. The wine is to make glad the heart of God and the heart of man.

^[p. 141] WG The wool and the flax was for the household and the company, but this is for God.

JT God does not need the wool and the flax. We do, but He needs the wine of joy which gladdens the heart — the yield of worship from our hearts by the Spirit.

WJY And He cannot get it apart from spiritual energy on the part of the saints.

JT And her candle never goeth out. She is a light always. The assembly is always a light here.

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