THE ASSEMBLY
[p. 60] THE ASSEMBLY
1 Corinthians 11; Matthew 26:6 - 13; Ezekiel 43:1 - 6
JT As it is the first day of the week, it occurred to me that it was due to the Lord that we should be occupied with the assembly.
My thought is that we may see it, as governed by a law; in this chapter in Ezekiel (lower down), he speaks about the law of the house upon the top of the mountain. That is the idea of the assembly. The assembly comes out of heaven, and the law that governs it comes out of heaven. It is set up on the top of the mountain, and what comes out, I think, in the law of the house — which may be taken to be 1 Corinthians — is that the activities which should mark it are those of fully developed men, men — not children. In Ezekiel, where we have more minute detail given of the house of God than in any other part of Scripture, the idea of a man runs throughout — indeed, the book contemplates the Son of man. The term, Son of man, is perhaps found in Ezekiel more frequently than in all the other books of the Bible combined, and the thought links up with the house. “The man”, he says, “stood by me”. The assembly, therefore, is not to be marked by undeveloped activities — it is the intelligence of the man, the affections of the man. Every stage of spiritual growth, of course, is recognised there — but it is to be characterised by men, so that it says, “in your minds be grown men”. And for that reason I suggested the earlier part of 1 Corinthians 11 in connection with the passage in Matthew, because it gives man his place as the representative of God. The anointing in Matthew is the fullest recognition of this. Matthew and Mark record for us the action of this woman, and the Lord directs that what she did was to be mentioned [p. 61] as a memorial of her wherever the gospel would be preached. He says nothing in these two gospels about the memorial of Himself. It is the woman who is to be remembered, because unless there is the memorial of the woman, I doubt if there will be the conditions for the memorial of Christ; so that He says nothing about remembering Himself in regard to His Supper in Matthew and Mark, but He does say that the woman is to be remembered, and I think it is because of the place she gives Him. If her memorial is rightly apprehended I think the conditions will exist for the memorial of Christ, which Luke mentions.
RGD In the woman’s anointing of Him, is there a giving place to the counsels of God, on the line of intelligence?
JT I think in Matthew it would recognise the government of God — that Man to her represented government. She would not look elsewhere for regulation. In Mark, I suppose the anointing represents what is levitical.
JAB Is the thought in your mind that in the three scriptures read there is progressive development in our apprehension of what there is in the assembly?
JT Well, I thought the passage in Matthew fits in with the early part of 1 Corinthians 11, because it shows how the woman took her place, and not only took her place in relation to the man, but recognised by anointing His head, that at least He was her ideal; she would recognise Him, she would have a sign of authority on her head henceforth.
AHC Does she represent the assembly in that way?
JT I think she represents what should mark the assembly, that is, subjection to Christ. The assembly is subject to Christ.
WJY Is it that the conditions of the assembly [p. 62] must be according to God before we can have a memorial of Himself?
JT That is exactly what I thought, and so the anointing in Matthew fits in with 1 Corinthians. It would save believers from turning to any other authority than Christ for their regulation.
AHC Is it the recognition of Christ as being the head of the assembly?
JT Yes. The woman in anointing the Lord, I think, avows her entire recognition of where authority is, and so the early part of chapter 11 prepares for the assembly. It gives man his place. The order is from God to Christ, and from Christ to man, and from man to woman.
JDU So that the whole principle of subjection would come in there, not just in connection with what we would speak of as to the sisters.
JT I think the whole principle of subjection in the assembly is involved, but it begins with the women. There is to be a sign of it because Corinthians deals with what is orderly and comely, and the sign brings into evidence the place that man has. It is in the assembly that God’s idea of man is to shine, the idea of the assembly really involves intelligence.
JDU You were speaking of full development. I was thinking it is in that way that subjection comes in on our part.
JT The great principle of the divine idea in man is worked out family-wise. The exercises on the household side lead to material for the assembly, so that man merges into the assembly from his house; his place is recognised according to God.
RGD It says in 1 Corinthians 10:15 “I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say”. Is that connected with order?
JT Yes. “I speak as to intelligent persons”, is the strict interpretation, and bears out what [p. 63] we are saying, that God is aiming at intelligence in the assembly.
WJY Do you suggest that the conditions of our households have an application to the law of the house of God?
JT I do, and you cannot have divine order in the assembly unless it first exists in the households; hence the selection of elders is contingent on the condition of the households. I do not say that it is a question in 1 Corinthians 11 exclusively of husband and wife, because it is not. It is man and woman, because God would educate the saints into His own idea in the man and the woman, so that it should shine in the assembly. Hence it is not only married sisters, but all sisters, all women as in relation to men, whoever the men may be; because when we come to the assembly, it is no longer a question of husband and wife, but man and woman; hence it is not ‘Let your wives be silent’, but “Let your women be silent”.
JAB So that before you have that which is the expression of our appreciation of Christ, you must have that which manifests our subjection to Him as Head?
JT Yes, and the memorial of this woman ever present would involve that, so that wherever the gospel is preached, it is to be mentioned. The preaching of the gospel would gather out souls, and the assembly is formed historically by the preaching of the gospel; and as the gospel is preached, this that the woman did is mentioned, so that those who are gathered should be rightly regulated. It would save them from looking to any other authority than Christ, or taking any other pattern than that woman, and as she is recognised, there are conditions for the memorial of Christ; that is, His Supper.
JAB Is that suggested when Paul gives it to them; he says, “I received from the Lord”, and then [p. 64] he speaks of the Lord Jesus. There is a recognition of His authority and His place as Lord, and then there is that which touches our hearts in connection with the love of the Lord Jesus.
JT Quite. “Lord Jesus”, I think, is a term of affectionate respect, but it is a great thing to have a model, and I think the woman is a model for us. The memorial is to keep in view what she did; you will notice it speaks of “what this woman has done”, so that it is what every woman, and indeed, in effect, what every Christian should do.
AHC The woman, apparently, had great intelligence, because it was in regard to His burial that she did it. If we had the sense of the death of Christ, and all that it meant, it would mean that a sweet savour would go up from the hearts of His people.
JT Yes.
Ques Does the memorial represent the truth of headship?
JT I think that it leads to that. Anointing Him on the head, I think, means that He was qualified, from her point of view, as indeed He had been from God’s, for the office. All government must come from Him.
JAB You said that the assembly was produced by the preaching of the gospel. As we have responded to that testimony, are there certain exercises of soul before we reach the woman as a model?
JT No doubt, but we are soon confronted with the idea of government, that we are not so many units. We are to be regulated by a law — and the “Law-Giver”. “The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be” (Genesis 49:10). We are confronted with the necessity of rule in the kingdom, and then in the assembly, and we are to look to Christ for that rule, for the directions; so that the apostle here praises them,
[p. 65] because they kept his directions, and he adds further directions in regard to the woman; but when it comes to the assembly, the actual convening, he could not praise them, and I have no doubt it was largely on account of the state of the households; because if parties, or coteries, exist amongst the saints, it is, you may be sure, the outcome of certain family conditions, where subjection is not present.
WJY There was a time, I think, when we regarded our households and what we may call our private lives, as something quite distinct from the assembly; that is, as having very little relationship to it.
JT But the Lord has greatly helped us in the way the believer’s household has come into evidence, and how it contributes to the assembly, so that you see here that they had kept his directions; but he would add more directions, and what he adds has reference to the order of God in regard to the man and the woman, and this is before he goes on to the assembly.
JAB Would you say that what is characteristic of the day in which we live is insubjection and lawlessness in these relations that have been established by God?
JT I think it is very important to take account of that. It is a noticeable fact, historically, that the truth of the assembly made little or no progress in the East, in Asia, in places that observed, or practised polygamy. It develops where there are household conditions according to what was at the beginning, as the Lord says, “From the beginning it was not so”. That is, in the assembly we come back to the primary thoughts of God. There is deliverance from all that has intervened, and this chapter contemplates the relation in which, in the creation, God set the man and the woman. Now that Christ has come in, He is there mediatorially. The idea of man’s headship is [p. 66] known, and carried out because of Christ having come in as the Head of every man, so that every man learns the divine thought in headship from Christ, and hence it flows out in his relationships on earth.
I have no doubt that the conditions that he refers to, in which parties were in evidence — eating before others, rich and poor distinguished, etc. — were largely attributable to the deranged household conditions, so that the entry of the gospel into Europe is connected with the households. We do not get the assembly spoken of at Philippi (Acts 16); of course it was there, but what is emphasised is households.
RGD And yet, when we are in the assembly, family relationships are not recognised, are they? They give place to the spiritual.
JT As we enter the threshold of the assembly, family relationships drop. But we are adjusted family-wise before we enter.
JAB It is very important to have the right conditions existing. “Let a man examine himself, and so let him eat”. That would take account of the exercises in connection with the conditions outside.
JT Quite.
HC Do you make a distinction between the authority of the Lord and the recognition of the Head?
JT Yes, I do. It does not say here that the Lord is Head of every man. The Head of every man is Christ. It is a question really of intelligence, more than of the kingdom. Headship is more that you get direction, and one can understand how this principle has come into evidence, in its perfection, in Christ. You see, now that Christ has come in, you have the idea set out perfectly, the idea of getting direction from the Head. But there can be no such thing as that, without subjection.
HC You must recognise Him as Lord before you can recognise Him as Head.
JT [p. 67] Just so.
JDU And, being perfect, there is nothing arbitrary or harsh about the position He takes up, is there? One feels that in connection with our own exercises as heads of families, in the households, how much we need to take our lead from our Head.
JT That only brings into evidence the place that Christ has now in this divine order in creation. In Eden, of course, it was that the head of every man was God, so to say; Christ was not there, but now Christ has come in, so that the divine idea is fully expressed, and hence every man has to learn that from Christ; and, therefore, order is complete. He maintains in his house what he has learned from Christ.
JDU Many of us are feeling it a very great exercise on that line, in connection with growing families, how necessary it is to rightly exercise the control that should be evidenced in headship.
WJY I suppose your thought is that we cannot approach assembly privilege, and disregard these evident laws that God has appointed?
JT It would surely be a poor thing if the assembly came short of the order in creation. There should be an advance on the order of creation. We must have first settled the order of creation before we reach the assembly, in which the all-various wisdom of God is to be displayed. We must leave nothing behind us unsettled, hence the order of creation should be seen in all family relationships, and that is what God is looking for. He is looking for His order to take form in His people here on earth, so that we approach the assembly on that line, and the assembly takes form under the eye of Christ in comeliness. One has been struck by the references to hair in the Song of Songs. How the bridegroom speaks of the hair of the bride, because it has reference to what is distinctly feminine. It has reference to what is wrought out subjectively in the way of affection and order. The hair is said to be like a “flock of goats, on the slopes of mount Gilead” (Song of Songs 4:1), and again it speaks about the ringlets by which the king is held (Song of Songs 7:5), referring spiritually to the feminine attractiveness of the assembly, as it is formed according to Christ. So that the order of creation must first be respected, and then we approach the assembly.
WJY So that a feature of Christianity is that that which was orderly in creation has been recovered.
JT That is right, so that in Genesis 4 we have the dominance of the woman. The children were named by Eve. It is a chapter of disaster really, but when we come to Seth, we have recovery, because he calls the name of his son Enosh — he respected the actual judgment of God on man, and then it says, “began men to call upon the name of the Lord”. Light had broken in, and then we have God reverting to His primary thought. “This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man ... male and female created he them ... and called their name Adam” (Genesis 5:1,2). There you have recovery, and then Adam begets a son, in his own likeness, after his own image, so that for the continuance of the testimony of God, there has to be the recognition of the departure and the recovery. You begin over again, and that shines out in our houses, so that the children continue. Seth was after Adam’s own image and likeness.
HW Recovery is connected with the recognition of headship?
JT Quite.
JAB The scripture you read in Ezekiel would show the results, the privileges, when God’s order is maintained.
JT That is what I was thinking. There are conditions now with which God can identify Himself, and I think that chapters 11, 12, 13 and 14 of this [p. 69] epistle (1 Corinthians), correspond with Ezekiel. God comes in from the east gate, from the east.
AHC That is the point where the light arises.
JT Quite.
JAB Do we have the light of the east continually before us? If we take account of the conditions around us, we have to acknowledge ruin and breakdown, but we can take up our privileges in the light of that which is coming in.
JT Yes. The reference, I suppose, is to the sun rising, dispelling all darkness and doubt. God is in the light. Now if these conditions, of which we have spoken, exist, we have a memorial of Christ, which brings Him in. “This do in remembrance of me”. If the Lord is thus remembered, conditions being suitable, you have a Man by you. Ezekiel says, “A man stood by me”. I think that all that follows in the assembly is dependent on Christ. The Man stands by you.
GHMcK You mean that the Lord would be revealed to all as a Man at the present time?
JT Yes, that is how He comes in. The memorial is of Him in that way, so the part that you take in the assembly, in apprehending Him thus, is not childish. You do not act as a child. The apostle says, in chapter 13, that when he was a child he acted as a child, but when he became a man, he put away childish things. The “Man standing by” rebukes all childish things. They are unsuitable.
WJY Do you link the thought of the Supper with the light from the east?
JT Well, I think that you may. The Supper is not only what Christ is to us, it is what God is in the covenant. I think that the covenant establishes confidence in one’s heart, which coincides with the thought of the rising sun. So that there is room for God. The Lord’s supper opens up the way for “the Man” in the memorial, and for God. God is there. It says, “the earth shined with his glory”.
GHMcK How do you connect the thought of confidence with the rising of the sun?
JT It is universal that the whole race of man, from the outset, was accustomed to look in the eastern direction for the rising of the sun. But it is right to connect this with the glory; the glory is the shining out of God in His love, and Ezekiel sees that coming in; the God of Israel comes in, and the earth shines as He comes, and the glory fills the house; but then alongside that, you have the Man standing by you, and I think that it is the sense of Christ as Man in the assembly that enables one to be there.
Ques Do childish things set forth what is undeveloped?
JT I think so. You take these chapters in Ezekiel, from chapter 40 — they are extremely complex. I doubt whether any of us has followed them fully, and that fact alone ought to warn us not to be too assumptive that we understand everything about the assembly, dividing it up into two compartments, when there may be more. You look at these chapters, and you see what a variety of things there is; the measurements of the cells, and the broad ways, the courts and the gates and the porches, all divinely measured. As you look at these things, you say, ‘Well, I know very little of the assembly’, and you are dependent, and you are glad to have a Man by you. You see the need of cultivating the senses, so that one should be, as it were, a man in the assembly.
JAB It is very comforting to get the thought that there is One there to support you in these conditions.
JT Yes. He stands by Ezekiel right through with a measuring line, so that everything should [p. 71] be known.
WJY Do you desire to run over chapters 11 to 14 (1 Corinthians)?
JT No. I am only suggesting that the thought of a man runs through them, especially in chapter 14. Chapter 13 refers to the child, and points out that when one becomes a man, one puts away childish things, and so he proceeds to what he calls the more excellent way, or the way of surpassing excellence, and the first great thing after this is prophecy. Can you bring in the mind of God? It is an immense thing to be able to suggest something of the mind of God, because that belongs to the assembly. The assembly is where God would reveal His mind.
JSB How are the childish things put away?
JT I think you judge them and lay them aside. You see how unbefitting they are; the assembly is the place for the mind of God. Ezekiel says that a voice spoke to him out of the house, and a man stood by him. Now we would expect that in the assembly. If I expect God to speak to me in the assembly, I am prepared for it. I have got my bible, and I can refer to it if reference is made.
WJY Do you consider that the prophesying in chapter 14 is linked with the same meeting as we speak, as chapter 11?
JT I think so. There is only one convening of the assembly. The idea runs through. So that, provided we are prepared for the idea that it is God’s assembly, we leave with God what may come about. There are things that we do, as it says, “This is not to eat the Lord’s supper”. It should have been that they assembled to eat the Lord’s supper. They should begin with that, but, having done that, the way is open, for if Christ has come in, God has come in, and, according to Ezekiel, the glory shines. God may speak to us as He did to Ezekiel, and we want to know, because He speaks through someone (God does everything now mediately, and if anyone speaks,
[p. 72] he speaks as the oracles of God), and I want to know this, and my bible is the test. I should have my bible.
WJY I think there has been a thought that our morning meeting, as we speak, corresponded with the ministry of Aaron and his sons in the holy place; that is, it is an occasion in which the consideration was wholly God-ward, and that God’s speaking to us was reserved for other occasions.
JT But I think you will find in Exodus that God proposed to speak to the people from the mercy-seat. He said, “There will I speak with thee”.
RGD Do you suggest that the wideness of the things connected with the name of God may come before us when we meet together to remember the Lord?
JT You see we come together as in assembly, according to this chapter, and that is God’s assembly; and if it is God’s assembly, God must have full rights in it. We cannot prescribe, we must leave it with Him.
RMY Do you regard God speaking to us as being greater than worship?
JT I do. It must be. It must be a greater thing for God to speak than for you to speak.
CB Would you say that all speaking to the saints in the assembly should be the giving forth of the mind of God?
JT I think if anyone speak, he should speak representatively; of course, there is what we may call conversational ministry, such as readings, but the general principle of ministry is authoritative. “If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God”. It is not that he is immune from judgment, because the others are to judge, as it says, “let the others judge”; but from his point of view, he is speaking as the oracles of God, and his thought is to bring in the mind of God, and to edify the assembly.
JAB Would it have a specific character at such a [p. 73] time?
JT I think where there is worship that you should be very careful. He says, “This is ... the place of the soles of my feet”. That is to say, God Himself is there, in nearness, as we see in Genesis 35, where He speaks to Jacob. If one speaks in those circumstances, God is very near to him. He is very near to all, so that in these circumstances it is not merely a question of teaching, or exhortation, but the word, fresh for the moment.
JAB It would not be the occasion for what we might have in our reading meeting, or even in an “open” meeting?
JT No. Ezekiel says here he heard one speaking to him out of the house. He was in the house. I think that is the kind of speaking. “I heard one speaking unto me out of the house”.
GHMcK Would such ministry take account of the needs of the saints?
JT God would take account of their needs, and that is what I mean in seeking to emphasise that it is God’s assembly, and He takes account of what exists. If saints are worldly, you may depend the word will have something to say to them.
We cannot ignore the state of the saints. There is no use in having a theoretic condition. The saints are the house, you know; it is a question of the state of the saints. If there are worldly, or low, conditions, then God has to speak accordingly. The question is whether God is there, whether He has actually come in at all — if there is a low state.
In such conditions, God would speak in another way to you; there would be more distance in it. Here you see, “I heard one speaking unto me out of the house”. That is very near, for he was right in the house.
WJY Do you look on an open meeting as a [p. 74] convening of the assembly?
JT Yes. I think 1 Corinthians contemplates that.
WJY What about a reading meeting?
JT Well, a reading meeting is conversational. I would not be sure but that a meeting such as the present makes room for the Lord in a peculiar way. I do not think that I should suggest anything, were it not that I felt it represented the mind of the Lord; and, therefore, in these circumstances, there is a certain reference to authority. In an open meeting, if a brother stands up, it is not conversational; it is as the oracles of God, and thus he is supposed to represent the Lord; and, therefore, it makes it a very serious matter to say anything.
Ques What of the Spirit in the inner court?
JT That indicates what is possible in the Spirit. In our assemblies, if we are equal to it, the Holy Spirit takes us into the most sacred spot. As the hymn says, “The Spirit’s power has ope’d the heavenly door”. It is a question of the Spirit.
JDU Would it be out of place to ask you to say a word about the cup, and the exercises that there have been recently in regard to one cup?
JT There is only one cup in the institution. “In like manner also the cup”, as it says. In chapter 12 it says, “We ... have all been given to drink of one Spirit”, which I think is an allusion to the cup; so that it should convey the idea of unity.
JDU What do you think, then, of subdividing it at the Supper?
JT It is an acknowledgment of weakness, I think. It seems to me as if the Lord might suggest that the cup should regulate the size of the company. In Mark it says that, “all drank out of it”; and the containing vessel, of course, maintains that, because we all do really drink out of the same vessel, only for convenience we use two or more. The Lord had used [p. 75] a drinking vessel. I think the idea of unity is maintained in one vessel, but if the company were regulated by the size of the cup, or drinking vessel, we should have more assemblies — more meetings — and I believe that is what the Lord is aiming at — the increase of meetings.
JDU In regard to that, the exercise, of course, is as to whether there is the power for such meetings.
JT That is the next thing. I believe there is something in that. The idea is that we all drink out of the same vessel, which makes it very familiar; the Lord breathed into the disciples, which is a very familiar action; and drinking out of the one cup involves familiar relationships, and intimacy; and so, if the size of the cup, as we said, was allowed to regulate the size of the meeting, the meetings would increase, and the income of the Lord would increase.
AJL Do you mean more would take part?
JT Yes. There would be more exercise, more development of men.
JDU You would not look for fully developed men at first — elders, I mean?
JT We do not need elders until we have the assembly. Elders are not the first thought, they are the second thought. The elders were ordained after the assembly was formed; the question is whether there is material for an assembly. I use the word ‘assembly’ merely for convenience, but the great thing to begin with is whether for an assembly there are enough saints who love the Lord, and then the question of elders arises. I think it is quite obvious that you do not need a king unless you have a nation to rule, and you do not need elders unless you have an assembly. So the first thing is to get the saints for an assembly. It is wonderful how God provides when we move on right lines; how development takes place.
JAB So, although we are surrounded by broken [p. 76] conditions, if the order of God is recognised, as under the headship of Christ, we are brought to the fulness of God’s thought and the shining of His glory.
JT It is a very wonderful possibility in days such as ours, that we may come back to the primary thought of God in the assembly. And what strikes one particularly is the importance of development of manhood; that we should be no longer babes, but men; and, in taking part in the assembly, you do so as intelligent persons, not as children.