Reading 2—Friday afternoon
A.J.G. We were considering the name of God this morning, the Name includes the three Persons of the Godhead, but in certain relationships with each other. We know that in their being the three Persons in Deity stand on the same ground. If one were to be inferior to the other two, then He would cease to be God. That is why it is very important that we hold to it firmly that, in their being, the three Persons in the Deity are the same. In order to be known to man, the three Persons in the Godhead have taken certain relative positions, as the Father, as the Son, and as the Holy Spirit. And in these positions the Father is the highest, so the Lord says: “My Father is greater than I”. He also says: “My Father who has given them to me is greater than all”, John 10: 29. Whilst the Son and the Spirit can be apprehended by us in certain positions of service, yet this emphasises their moral glory and brings out too that God is love.
I wondered if we could consider in this reading how the three Persons in the Godhead are seen, while holding firmly that it was always the thought of God to have man before Him. It says in Proverbs 8: 31, “my delights were with the sons of men”. What we call the Economy is the mutual agreement that the three Persons of the Godhead have with one another, in which they are known as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They had in mind to bring man to the knowledge of God, to bring man to God for God’s pleasure, with the effect and result that God can dwell amongst men. The incarnation was necessary for all this. You can say that everything was dependent on the incarnation. As we read: “the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”; that means one Person of the Godhead took up a human condition, and in this condition He moved amongst men, so that man should have a right impression of God imparted to him. Evidently, the incarnation is a glory that belongs only to the Son; that means that the Father did not became man, nor did the Holy Spirit become man. But the Person of the Godhead that we now know as Son, became Man, and He dwelt amongst men, in order that He could be contemplated. And what was contemplated was the glory of an only-begotten with a father; this means a relationship of affection existed, which is brought near to man. God was presented in this light. Then it says: “No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son (which is an expression of intimate love), who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”. God is made known in this remarkable and attractive light.
A.W. Would you say it was love from God that one divine Person should become man, that we could be in relationship with God at all? If we had come into relationship with God as such, then we would have died immediately.
A.J.G. Yes, that is the way which love being the divine nature has taken that He has come into these human conditions.
R.Z. Can we say John’s gospel is based upon the activities of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
A.J.G. Yes, I believe that is the case. Maybe we will reach that to speak about it in a later reading in John 14, where the Persons of the Father and the Son and the Spirit illustrate that in a wonderful way.
Ch.H. What do you think about the Spirit abiding on Christ?
A.J.G. We find that that the Spirit comes to light in this chapter. The Spirit descended here as a dove and abode upon Jesus. There was now a man available in the Person of the Lord Jesus in whom He could dwell and abide, but as the verse read in Psalm 68 shows, as the Spirit was given at Pentecost, it was the divine thought to dwell amongst men, even with rebellious men. We must of course be saved from our rebellion, yet it was in the mind of God to dwell amongst men: “even for the rebellious”, it says. That was met on the one hand through redemption and on the other side through the gift of the Spirit. Atonement was made for our sins, and we as sinners were removed in death. Then the Holy Spirit was given to us, which is life in Christ. In this way we receive part in the life of the heavenly man, and that is an order of man that can dwell with God. That is why you can see the importance of the incarnation of Christ, and then on the other side the descending of the Spirit, so that God should bring out the thought of God dwelling with men. He also brings in Christ as man in relationship with Him in His presence.
L.M. Does this include “grace upon grace”?
A.J.G. I think when we apprehend this, when we mature in the knowledge of the truth, we will be impressed by what grace upon grace means. The incarnation is a wonderful expression of the grace of God. Redemption is an expression of the riches of His grace, and giving us a place in sonship before God in Christ is a wonderful expression of the glory of His grace. It is grace upon grace.
H.H. It is wonderful that it says here: “the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”, according to the note ‘tabernacled with us’. God came so close to us in Christ.
A.J.G. Yes, God came very near to man in Jesus. Everyone could come close to Him. He attracted persons that were in need. There was a woman that said: If I only touch the hem of His garment, I shall be healed. She came and touched the hem of His garment. God came very close to man in this way. So the divine thought for eternity is that the tabernacle of God is with men. This is the same approachability as in the conditions we saw in Jesus when He was here as man.
A.G. It says, “grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”. We have all our blessings in Christ,
A.J.G. That is right. It is grace and truth. The truth is not given up, but grace abounds.
T.A. Do we find the thought of nearness in John 14: 23? “Jesus answered and said to him, If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him”.
A.J.G. Yes, surely that is so. We must consider that the Spirit is here. The Lord Jesus had just said that the Spirit was about to come, to be with us eternally. Then He said that, if anyone were to be in a suitable state and kept His word, the Father and the Son would come to him and dwell with him. In this way we have the whole Godhead there. It shows that God in His fulness as He is now known can dwell with us in these conditions.
H.H. When David suggested building a house for Jehovah, God said that He had been from tent to tent, 1 Chron 17: 5. Does that bring out that God loves accessibility and nearness?
A.J.G. It shows how God loves securing the trust of man so that He can be near to man and dwell with him, even if David had in mind to build a great house, which Solomon built. We saw this morning that the mind of God is a city; and His glory is in it, what God can do comes into expression. But when we come to eternity, He chooses again tabernacle conditions, Rev 21: 3. The thought of a tabernacle is a tent. In a tent, there is no distance any more.
E.C. It says: “I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel, and will be their God”, Exod 29: 45.
A.J.G. Yes, that is the divine thought, that He desires to dwell with them. It is wonderful to contemplate that the Word became flesh and dwelt among men. We have this double thought in Christ as Man. On the one side He has declared God to man fully. On the other side everything that God desires in man, is in Christ for Him. Something wonderful was said about the Lord at the mount of transfiguration in Matthew 17: 2: “And his face shone as the sun, and his garments became white as the light”. His face shone as the sun, meaning that the complete light of God radiated or shone out of Him. But then it says: “his garments became white as the light”. This shows that everything was also in Him as Man, in answer to the light. It is a wonderful glory, that we can have an insight as to Christ as the Mediator. On the one hand God is presented towards man and on the other hand man is presented towards God.
R.Z. It is on account of this that Moses is referred to in verse 17: “For the law was given by Moses: grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”.
A.J.G. Moses came to light in the ways of God in the Old Testament. He secured the rights of God in the law, but the proof was provided that the first man could not come up to it. This shows the necessity of the second man, and that is Christ. That is, one of the Godhead became Man. I believe we will come to this more and more, that we will see that all things are of God, but we are included in this in Christ, as indwelt by the Spirit of God.
L.B. At the birth of Jesus, it says: “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good pleasure in men”, Luke 2: 14.
A.J.G. Yes, the pleasure of God was in men. On the one side God received glory, and on the other side there was also pleasure of God in men.
C.M.M. Would that be men in Christ?
A.J.G. Yes it shows how precious it is, that God’s wonderful thoughts in connection with men could not be realised without one from the Godhead becoming Man, and through the Holy Spirit we even have part in this Man. Of course, we will never have part in deity, but we take part in the life of a Man who in His Person is God Himself.
K.Pf. When the Christ dwells in our hearts by faith, then we will experience this.
A.J.G. Yes, when the Christ dwells in our hearts through faith, then the Spirit creates conditions.
P.Sch. Is that the thought in Colossians 2: 9: “For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily; and ye are complete in him”?
A.J.G. Yes, that shows how wonderful the assembly is, and the assembly has a Head in whom all the fulness of the Godhead dwells bodily. That is why the assembly has the wonderful potential to give an answer to God in a fuller understanding and loving way. And there is also the wonderful possibility of bringing into expression God’s manifest fullness, because she is the body of Christ.
B.M. He is not ashamed to call them brethren.
A.J.G. No, we are of His order. “He that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one”, Heb 2: 11.
K.H. How could the disciples be able to see the glory of the Lord Jesus before the Spirit came?
A.J.G. They did to a certain degree even before Pentecost. But it was certainly greatly enlarged when the Spirit came at Pentecost. We must also keep in mind that God worked in them, before the Spirit was given: only those whom God worked with could receive Christ.
L.M. Do we see the growth of Peter in his second epistle, in the way he appreciated the Lord after the Spirit had come?
A.J.G. Yes, when he was on the mountain of transfiguration with Jesus, he suggested that three tabernacles should be built, one for Jesus, one for Moses and one for Elias. He put the Lord first, which was right, but he also gave Moses and Elias a place too. When he writes his second epistle, he says nothing at all about Moses and Elias; he only says that they, the apostles, were with Christ on the holy mountain. They were so near to God, that they could hear the voice that said: “This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight”. Moses and Elias were on the mountain and spoke with Jesus, to bring into expression what the mind of God was for man. But after the voice had been heard, they saw no one but Jesus alone.
H.C.H. Would you say that while the fulness of God was in Christ, yet both the Father and the Holy Spirit were necessary to bring the saints into full blessing?
A.J.G. The thought of God is in the Father, as known in grace, and also includes that God desires to have man in relationship as sons. Then one of the Godhead became Man and took up the relationship of Son towards the Father, all in view of expressing what the divine thought was. Then we receive the Spirit through redemption, and it is given to us the life of the Spirit in Christ, we have the Spirit of the Son of God in our hearts. Thus the answer by the Spirit to God is suitable to God.
H.L. Why is the glory of the relationship referred to in verse 14?
A.J.G. It is lovely thinking about this. Glory in John’s gospel involves the outshining of what is morally excellent.
R.Z. Paul says in the beginning of Hebrews that Christ is the effulgence of His glory and the expression of His substance. Is that the thought?
A.J.G. What is your thought about it?
R.Z. I thought that Paul was in touch with this glory.
A.J.G. That shows in a way how the Lord outshone everyone else. God speaks now in the Person of the Son, in One that is God in Himself in His Person and yet one who sets out the wonderful thought of sonship for man. Then we also have in this scripture the wonderful fact that the Spirit was seen. The Father was never seen, except as Christ represented Him. The Spirit is not seen now either, but at this moment He was seen. He came as a dove out of heaven. And at Pentecost He was seen as parted tongues of fire that came down. But He was seen here, as He came down on Jesus and abode upon Him, and the testimony of the Father is: “Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit”. That has to do I believe with bringing in the thought of the assembly because it says in 1 Corinthians 12: 13: “For also in the power of one Spirit, we have all been baptised into one body”. This means that the baptism of the Holy Spirit has to do with the building of the assembly to fulfil what has now come in in Christ as Man.
R.D. Do we not see here a great difference: He came here as a dove, but in Acts 2 as a violent impetuous blowing?
A.J.G. Yes, that is a difference in the way He came: “as a dove” shows how God was completely at rest. The Spirit came down in the form of a dove. A dove is a very tender creature, but He came down on Jesus and abode upon Him, showing that there was nothing at all that could disturb the pleasure of God in that Man. But when He came at Pentecost, He came as parted tongues of fire, as there is a lot in us that must be eliminated. It says: “our God is also a consuming fire”. It is in the power of the fire that the testimony of God proceeds. It was a powerful wind in Acts 2: “And there came suddenly a sound out of heaven as of a violent impetuous blowing, and filled all the house where they were sitting”. God came down in testimony in a most powerful way. It was a testimony that continued in men, but in men where the flesh had been set aside through the activity of the fire.
H.H. But it does not say here that He abode upon them as it says in John 1 about the Lord.
A.J.G. I believe it shows that the incarnation was necessary to bring about an order of man according to the thoughts of God. Then we find this wonderful thought that God in His grace gives us life in Christ, and that is through the Holy Spirit. Then you can see the place the Son fulfils, and the place the Spirit fulfils, and the place the Father fills in His supremacy, love and affection. Everything is in perfect unity to complete the mind of God in love.
T.B. God’s plan comes into expression: “Let us make man in our image”, Gen 1: 26.
A.J.G. Yes, that is the case. And this really necessitated the incoming of Christ, as the first man was really a figure of Him that was to come.
R.Z. What the Lord says to Nicodemus is a sign of the Holy Spirit: “The wind blows where it will”?
A.J.G. Yes, that is a reference to the Spirit. It is remarkable how we have, even in the physical creation, what speaks of mysteries. You cannot explain the wind, it blows where it will, you cannot say where it goes or where it comes from. So whenever God makes us aware of the wind, He reminds us of the Spirit and of His sovereign activities.
We find further on, in verse 38, two disciples who were attracted by the words of John the baptist, leading them to follow Jesus. “But Jesus having turned, and seeing them following, says to them, What seek ye?” It is most encouraging to see how the Lord follows up every true exercise that comes to light.
W.Sch. Is not the question most important for us: what do we seek?
A.J.G. Yes, that is most important.
K.H. Can we link this with Colossians 1: 19, where it says: “for in him all the fulness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell”? This was true of the Lord from the very beginning. At His baptism, the Spirit came down, and thus it could be announced.
A.J.G. It could not be seen before the Spirit was given. What is in your mind?
K.H. I thought the descent of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove was a public testimony of it, that the fulness of the Godhead was always there in Him, and that was going to be announced.
A.J.G. Yes, and it was also a testimony because He Himself would baptise with the Holy Spirit. John the baptist says: “And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God”. The Son of God is He that comes in here to do things for God.
C.M.M. Why do the two disciples ask “Where abidest thou”?
A.J.G. They must have had a wonderful impression of the preciousness of the dwelling place of Christ, and they were encouraged to ask where He dwelt; and the Lord said: “Come and see”. That shows that the place He had in the Father’s love should be revealed to those who were drawn to Him.
H.H. They said to him, “Teacher”. Do we need to be instructed as to where the precious dwelling place of Christ is?
A.J.G. Yes, and we must also be instructed in relation to the principle of contemplating. He does not instruct them any further, rather just saying: “Come and see”. The Lord shows that the great principle is contemplation. The Spirit has been given to us so that we should be able to contemplate Christ. We will always learn the truth more when we contemplate Christ.
K.M. It says in the note [in the German Bible]: ‘Come and ye will see’.
B.M. Why is there a reference to the tenth hour?
A.J.G. I think the tenth hour has to do with the end of human responsibility. The time of the law was up. The first man never fulfilled his responsibility, but his failures were taken away in the death of Christ; and what characterises Christianity now is that responsibility can now be fulfilled in the power of the Spirit.
L.M. Could you say a bit more about contemplation? Is it a collective or an individual thought?
A.J.G. It is both, personal and collective.
K.Pf. “But we all”, it says.
A.J.G. “But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed …”, 2 Cor 3: 18. But we must also provide room for individual contemplation; because the writer of Psalm 45: 1 says likewise, “I say what I have composed touching the king”. Then he starts describing Him, saying “Thou art fairer than the sons of men; grace is poured into thy lips.” That is the result of a personal contemplation.
H.M. Then the seeing comes before the hearing?
A.J.G. What do you mean with that?
H.M. Our attention is drawn to contemplating (or seeing) here.
A.J.G. Yes, but before they were invited to come and see, they had heard John speaking. What they had heard in the ministry spoken by John brought them to Christ, and then He encouraged them to come and see.
W.Sch. It says: “In the beginning was the Word”. Does this also indicate speaking?
A.J.G. Yes, the Word is the perfect expression of God.
K.M. In the first epistle of John it says: “which we have heard, which we have seen”, 1 John 1: 1.
A.J.G. It says in the first epistle of John: “which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes; that which we contemplated, and our hands handled”. That is most interesting, it shows it is so important to start with the hearing. Because it says in Hebrews: “To-day if ye will hear his voice”.
H.L. John first contemplates before he speaks.
A.J.G. Yes, “looking at Jesus as he walked” (v 36), and as a result he spoke of Him.
L.B. Would our service on Lord’s day be more effective if we contemplated more?
A.J.G. I believe that is the case, and also when we listen more and treasure it in rest. It says of Mary, “having sat down at the feet of Jesus was listening to his word” (Luke 10: 39); then she served effectively in John 12.
K.H. Did we see that this morning in Ezekiel in the water: water to the ankles following, water to the knees praying, water to the loins combatting, leading to water to swim in, which would be worship?
A.J.G. There is a great inexhaustible abundance in that. It is a great comfort that we never will be able to exhaust the fulness which is in God. We will never get tired in eternity. God is great enough to fill all eternity with His preciousness.
K.W. Is increase the thought?
A.J.G. Yes.
F.R. Do we have something of this in Song of Songs 1: 8: “Go thy way forth by the footsteps of the flock”; the question there is “Where thou makest it to rest”, v 7?
O.H. In Hebrews 2: 9 it says, “but we see Jesus”, and then in chapter 3: 1: “consider the Apostle and High Priest … Jesus”, and in chapter 12: 2: “looking steadfastly on Jesus”.
A.J.G. That is very good, both the ability to see and to hear are most important. John was lifted up to heaven and saw wonderful things, Paul was caught up to paradise and heard wonderful things.
A.T.E. In John 1: 39 it says, “they saw where he abode”. And they abode with him that day. “They saw”.
A.J.G. It is wonderful that the Lord says: “Come and see”. He says: “I am coming again and shall receive you to myself, that where I am ye also may be”. May this be a great help to us, to have in a more definite way in our thoughts that we are united with Christ, and that He is soon coming in view of taking us to Himself; that is our place.
A.W. He does not say: ‘in the Father’s house’, rather “to myself”.
A.J.G. Yes, “to myself … where I am”. In Acts 2: 33 it says: “Having therefore been exalted by the right hand of God, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which ye behold and hear”. The verse in Psalm 68: 18 sheds light on this, that “Thou hast ascended on high … thou hast received gifts in Man” (or as man, see footnote). As Man, He received the Spirit from the Father to pour out, even for the rebellious, in order that Jehovah, God, should have a dwelling. So it is a great thought of God that He desires to dwell amongst men. He will subdue the rebellious ones through the gospel; through grace He will take up His abode even with such, in view of finding His pleasure in Man and to glorify His grace. But I think we can see how the Manhood of Christ, the incarnation, and the descent of the Spirit, were necessary for this, because God could only dwell with men after the order of Christ.
H.L. Repentance is necessary for the rebellious.
A.J.G. We must condemn the rebellious, and the death of Christ meets them all. The gift of the Spirit sets us up in the life of a Man who pleases God.
P.Sch. It says: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and with him that is of a contrite and humble spirit”.
A.J.G. That is a remarkable scripture in Isaiah 57: 15: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and with him that is of a contrite and humble spirit”. God would never have had any man with a contrite and humble spirit if He had not had Christ.
P.Sch. That is why John says in his first letter, “that which we have seen and heard we report to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is indeed with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ”, 1 John 1: 3.
A.J.G. What is on your mind?
P.Sch. John reports this, on this basis we have fellowship.
A.J.G. Yes.
H.H. The verse in Psalm 68 applies to Saul of Tarsus in a beautiful way: being rebellious, he repented and received the Holy Spirit, and then he was made submissive.
A.J.G. Yes, Saul came into personal touch with Jesus, and the result was that he was converted from a rebellious and blasphemous man to a man being fully submissive to Christ.
T.A. Would you say we find the basis of worship in Revelation 1: 5-6? It says: “To him who loves us, and has washed us from our sins in his blood, and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father: to him be the glory and the might to the ages of ages. Amen.” I thought the Lord Jesus had laid the basis for us. He has washed us from our sins, as it says here.
A.J.G. Yes; He also has in mind to make us into a kingdom for the service of God. That is what He desires to secure at the present time in an evil world. The saints are held through Him, they are under His protection, as priests to His God and Father; which means they serve God in holiness.
A.T.E. “Jah Elohim”, the one who dwells with us, is the name of God that will be before us in eternity.
A.J.G. Yes, that is right. “Jah” is actually the name of God in His absolute being: it also shows us His great majesty.
A.W. Why is the Father referred to in Acts 2: 33? It says, “having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit”. Otherwise, the Father is only mentioned in the whole of the Acts in chapter 1, 4 and 7.
A.J.G. It seems to bring in the whole Godhead, showing how the whole Godhead is in accord with this, that man is brought into relationship with God, and that God dwells with man.
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