THE REST OF GOD, THE OBJECTIVE OF GOD’S WORK
MEETINGS IN WEIDENAU
26th to 28th MAY 1959
(TUESDAY TO THURSDAY)
Reading 1—Tuesday morning
A.J.G. I thought that perhaps we could look at God’s activities, having in mind that all the activities were in view of the rest of God. In Genesis 1 we see that God worked to a plan. The first thing He did in connection with creation was that He commanded the light to shine. Now this led to the sixth day, when mankind—male and female—was brought to light. This shows that God works in view of Christ and the assembly. Christ the man, and His fulness, the assembly is the final thought that God has before Himself. As a result of this, He will be served in a perfect way by men, and He will also be represented in a perfect way by men. When He brought this in He is said to have rested. The sabbath is brought in immediately after man has been introduced. It is so touching that the Lord says that the sabbath was for man’s sake. So we see that God had it in His mind from the beginning that we should share in His rest. This is especially what Hebrews 3 and 4 have in mind, that we should enter into His rest, as something present. But then we must also see that, in this kind of activity, God brings in that which is spiritual. God Himself is a Spirit, and He also wants us to be brought to what is spiritual, so that there may be the nearest, most intimate connection between Himself and man. So the verses we have read in chapter 1 show that everything must come from God. The true light came into the world, and the world, as it is called, received being through Him, and the world knew Him not. He came to His own, and His own received Him not. But there were those who did receive Him. The reason for this is that they were born of God: “who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh’s will, nor of man’s will, but of God”. So we must start by saying that if we have believed in the Name of the Lord Jesus, we are the objects of the work of God; and if this is the case, we must ask ourselves what the objective is, what has He in mind, and then we may know what it means to reach His rest. There is something else: even if everything is based on divine sovereignty, the principle of responsibility will nevertheless be maintained because those in whom God works believe in the Name of the Lord Jesus; that is, they believe the testimony that is presented to them. Thus, although it is acknowledged that everything is based on divine sovereignty, yet the principle of responsibility is maintained.
C.deK.F. What would you say about the light? Is it that the light radiates?
A.J.G. God works in the light. He is light. Darkness is completely alien to Him. The darkness was on the face of the deep. Therefore the first thing that God did was that He commanded the light to shine, and that came about when Jesus came into this world.
W.Schr. John testified to the light, but it is said that this was ‘the true light’. It was there in the Person of the Lord.
A.J.G. Yes, the more we look at the movements of Christ in the gospels, the more we can see the true light of God shining. Grace was there, which met every need of man, and yet the truth was maintained in a full way.
C.deK.F. Is this the same light that radiated from the glory on Paul?
A.J.G. Well, that was another thought. Christ in glory corresponds to the great light brought in on the fourth day.
A.S.T. Can you say more about “the true light”? Does this gospel have in mind to bring about what is true?
A.J.G. I am glad that you mention that, because it seems to be something very important, that God is true. At the end of the first epistle to John we read: “And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding that we should know him that is true; and we are in him that is true, in his Son Jesus Christ”, 1 John 5: 20. Well, God as Him that is true means that He wants to have everything in its right moral connection. So, in the end in the assembly, it concludes with God having His right position as God, and man is placed into his right relationship as a man, and yet everything is in accordance with the holy nature of God in love. Thus, in Christ and through the Spirit, we are brought as close to God as man can ever be. God is true. Did you have that before you?
A.S.T. Yes, that is very helpful.
E.B. Can you say something else about the rest that you spoke about? I am referring to Hebrews 4: 10, where it says: “For he that has entered into his rest, he also has rested from his works, as God did from his own”?
A.J.G. Yes, it is good to see that all the activities of God are in view of His rest. This is how we see the works of God, in Genesis 1, and in chapter 2 we see how His rest is brought in. But in the gospel we see the Lord saying, “The sabbath was made on account of man”, Mark 2: 27. It is very touching that when God establishes His rest, He then has in His mind that man himself is brought into His rest. Well, in the epistle to the Hebrews the great objective of the Spirit is that we should now enter into the rest of God. That is what we are already touching in the assembly.
E.E.P. Do you think that in our individual experience and practice, we are to cease from our works, so that we can understand the great works of God?
A.J.G. Yes, and that He has reached finality in Christ and in the assembly. Therefore the end of John 20 tells us that there are “many other signs also therefore Jesus did before His disciples, which are not written in this book, but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in His name”. Well, the name “Jesus Christ, the Son of God” is the glory which belongs to Him. The whole epistle to the Ephesians is needed to open up what Jesus is as the Christ. And then He is the Son of God, that is, it is a great system of affection that He introduces and establishes, and we should have life in all this.
Ques. Do we come to this thought in Revelation 21: 6, which says, “It is done”?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. It is a good thing if we have the consciousness of finality in this day of the Spirit. But then we must all be ready to move on to what is spiritual. This examines us very practically, because we may have a right judgment about the flesh, so that we do not sow characteristically to the flesh, but we tend to be held by the natural. But God is active in view of the spiritual.
E.E.P. Hence the thought of “the true light”, because what is true tests our innermost being.
A.J.G. That is something else—that everything gets tested and revealed by the light. This exposes ourselves. But God wants everything to be marked by truth. It says, “he that practises the truth comes to the light, that his works may be manifested that they have been wrought in God”.
E.E.P. Is that why the work of transparent sapphire should be found in us?
A.J.G. That is transparency like God Himself.
Ques. Do you think that the disciples entered this when they were in liberty to pluck the ears on the sabbath?
A.J.G. That is another feature of God’s rest, namely that it is characterised by liberty. The disciples plucked the ears and ate them; the Lord did not do so, nor had He told them to do so, but they moved in complete liberty. This is a feature of God’s rest, that it is characterised by liberty.
E.E.P. It is said that: “The true light was that which, coming into the world, lightens every man”, John 1: 9. Is this this great expansion that God has before Himself for us to take hold of it?
A.J.G. Yes, He has man before Him. Not that all men are affected by it, but the light shines for all. It is very touching that it is man who has such a place in the thoughts of God. He does not work so much with angels. The sabbath was on account of man. It is so touching that God wants man to enjoy His own rest. I believe that God rests in this, that the knowledge of God is made effective in the hearts of men, and man fully corresponds with this knowledge. Then the light is radiated to others by man. So He is active in the view of the heavenly city as the great vessel that radiates the light in the whole universe.
C.deK.F. Does John have this before him in his first letter in chapter 2, where he writes of the true light, and of the darkness that passes, and then he speaks of love for the brethren?
A.J.G. Yes, the darkness passes and the true light already shines, that is, these things can all be seen in the Christian circle.
A.S.T. The last sentence in verse 13, “but of God”, is probably fundamental to this, is it not?
A.J.G. Yes, it is God as He comes out in His nature and in His wisdom. I believe that we will find that this includes the fact that the whole Godhead is expressed personally: first the Son in John 3, then the Spirit in chapter 4, and then the Father in chapter 5. Thus, in this way, God enters on to our field of view.
C.deK.F. I would like you to say something as to the difference between what we find in chapter 1, “born of God”, and that the works are worked in God, chap 3.
A.J.G. When our works are wrought in God, it means that they are in accordance with the way God Himself has made Himself known to us. So what the Lord had to say to Nicodemus is very challenging for all of us. It makes us very small. It leads us to be totally dependent on the Spirit. I believe that, in a characteristic way, Nicodemus was the best of men, a teacher of the Jews, and yet the Lord must say to him, “Except any one be born anew he cannot see the kingdom of God”.
J.deR. Can you say something more about being “born anew”?
A.J.G. It shows that a whole new source of life is necessary, that my own ability, which I may possess by nature, has no purpose for me in the things of God, although the Lord can, of course, use it. But in terms of grasping the truth of God and any answer to it, we are completely dependent on a new beginning from God.
E.B. Can you say something more about water and the Spirit?
A.J.G. That brings in more the moral element, which is never lacking in the ways of God. Water speaks of the need to be morally purified, and this comes about when we understand the importance of Christ’s death, for we are morally cleansed of the first man when we are fully reconciled in our thoughts with the death of Christ. But this is done in view of the fact that the positive should come in in the Spirit, and so the Lord says, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit”.
A.S.T. Is this the taking away of the first, so that the second is established?
A.J.G. That is exactly what it is. And there can be no mixing between the first and the second. That is why this makes us all very small and suggests to us that we are completely dependent on the Spirit, whether to understand the things of God or to move in them.
W.E. As Nicodemus came to the Lord Jesus in the night, do we see that the Father had already worked in him; because it says, “No one can come to me unless the Father who has sent me draw him”, John 6: 44?
A.J.G. Certainly, that is the case. I believe that when the Lord says to Nicodemus, “Except any one be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”, he really said to Nicodemus that he had already been born anew. Nicodemus just had to understand this.
E.E.P. Could the Lord therefore say here, “he cannot see the kingdom of God”, because Nicodemus had followed these signs of which he had heard? For he said, “for none can do these signs that thou doest”.
A.J.G. Yes, he had been touched by what he had seen; but the end of chapter 2 shows that many believed on Jesus, because they saw His signs. “But Jesus himself did not trust himself to them”. One can trust in nothing but the work of God.
E.E.P. God was about to honour His work here by connecting Nicodemus with Jesus.
A.J.G. Yes, He Himself had started it. Undoubtedly, there was already a work of God in Nicodemus, so that he was born again. But the Lord also wanted him to understand what had taken place in him. This is also so important for us that if we have believed in Christ, we must understand that God is behind it, that He has worked in us and has the perfect end before Himself.
A.S.T. Does it not liberate our souls when we understand this?
A.J.G. That is so, and that brings in a desire with us to follow exactly what God has done in our souls, and in the assembly, He arrives at His final purposes according to His thoughts. There could be nothing greater than a created vessel that is the fulness of Christ, capable of answering to God as Christ Himself answers God, and which is also able to express God, as Christ Himself has expressed God5.
E.B. What is the connection between the wind and the Spirit in verse 8?
A.J.G. The Lord reminds us that we are in the presence of this mystery all the time. No one can explain the wind, and no one can control it, and yet it is all around us. This reminds us that we are in the presence of this mystery. It is also the case with the works of God in us. We cannot grasp it with our natural minds, but we can understand it through the Spirit. All this is intended to give us the impression that we are fully entrusted to the Spirit of God.
E.E.P. And we should be able at every moment to look out for what the Spirit reveals to us, so that we can see the kingdom of God increasingly, as it is said here.
A J.G. Yes.
C.deK.F. What does it mean: “thou hearest its voice”?
A.J.G. We should be careful to hear the voice of God every time we come together. The Spirit is continually present in the assembly, and every time we come together we should look for God speaking to us. It is not a question of a special brother serving, but of whether God really speaks so that we can hear His voice.
C.deK.F. Would you say that we will then see results?
A.J.G. Yes, and this is so important in Hebrews 3 and 4: “Wherefore, even as says the Holy Spirit, To-day if ye will hear his voice”.
R.D. Was this voice heard in Antioch?
A.J.G. That was so. They were ministering to the Lord, and fasting, and the Holy Spirit said, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them”, Acts 13: 2. Thus the Spirit made His voice to be heard, and His rights were recognised, and the assembly was in complete harmony with it.
E.E.P. “The wind blows where it will”. Is it important that we recognise the sovereignty of the Spirit as the original principle?
A.J.G. Yes, it is. We owe everything to God’s sovereignty, and yet He upholds the principle of responsibility. So He bears a testimony through Christ, and those in whom He works believe this testimony, so that the responsibility to hear and to answer to what God says is maintained.
W.E. Do we see in Nicodemus that the work of God progressed, because we find him at the cross?
A.J.G. That is so. We see him at the end of chapter 7 saying something to the Pharisees, so that he came under reproach. And they said, “Art thou also of Galilee?” But in chapter 19 he comes in in a certain way, and then we hear nothing more about him. He found his place in the assembly, so to speak.
E.B. Is hearing the voice of God related, for example, to Hebrews 4: 12?
A.J.G. Yes, we have it there. This is the character of the word of God, and it distinguishes between the soul and the spirit, that is, it distinguishes between the natural and the spiritual.
P.Sch. When the Lord says here, “We speak that which we know”, He is focusing on “know”?
A.J.G. He does. But what do you think about it?
P.Sch. I think what God has done in us is something we have and know.
A.J.G. Yes, that is right. God brings forth something that is tangible. Thus, this is the focal point in Revelation 21, where the dimensions of the heavenly city are given to us, it is a cube. That is to show us the great substance God has wrought in the saints. Therefore it is said that it comes down from heaven from God, and it has the glory of God. It does not reflect it, but it has the glory.
W.M. Why does the Lord speak in the plural here: “We speak that which we know”?
A.J.G. He probably identifies John the baptist with Himself. John the baptist had come to testify of the light. But I believe that the Lord is bringing to light here the principle to which our brother referred, namely that we should speak that which we know.
A.S.T. I refer to the side of responsibility once again. Is it also connected with the fact that we enter into the kingdom of God?
A.J.G. You think it involves subjection on our side?
A.S.T. And that we understand something of what we are brought into.
A.J.G. Quite so. The kingdom of God is an area where God has everything in complete control and everything is characterised by Him.
W.Schr. What are the “earthly things” that the Lord mentioned according to verse 12?
A.J.G. I think the Lord refers here to Ezekiel 37—the valley of dry bones. This is what the Lord refers to. Nicodemus, as a teacher of the Jews, should have known that it was impossible to speak with these dry bones, and yet they are brought to life by the living power of the wind.
W.Schr. Is that why you think it is a word by the Lord Jesus through the prophets?
A.J.G. Yes, the bones were made alive as a result of Ezekiel speaking to the wind. Here the Lord refers to the wind, which is an image of the Spirit of God.
C.deK.F. Nicodemus should also have known that in the preceding chapter in Ezekiel the heart is purified and the Spirit is given.
A.J.G. Quite so. Then the Lord continues to speak of Himself and says, “And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven”. We are once again faced with a mystery; when we are dealing with God, we are always in the presence of mysteries. Here was a Man on earth, we would like to say it with all reverence, who spoke of Himself as the Son of man who is in heaven, and I believe that all this should make us submissive and humble us, for we are dealing with God.
E.Sch. Therefore, does the Lord say: “We speak that which we know”?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so.
O.D. It shows that He is not only the Teacher, but also that He is also Lord.
A.J.G. Quite so.
E.E.P. Do you see a certain contrast in verse 10: “Thou art the teacher of Israel and knowest not these things!” This is actually said about all those like Nicodemus, so that the Lord says, “We speak that which we know”, which carries divine authority.
A.J.G. Quite so. Elsewhere, the Lord tells them to listen to the scribes, because they sat on Moses’ seat; and because they taught what Moses said; authority was associated with it. But He said that they should not do according to their works. But now the Lord speaks of the necessity that the Son of man had to be lifted up: “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus must the Son of man be lifted up”. The children of Israel were bitten by the serpents. Everyone who was bitten was aware of it and knew that the poison of the serpent worked in him; and we must come there, that this is our state in the flesh, that the poison of the serpent is effective in all our being and in our nature.
E.E.P. It destroys in such a way that we do not hear correctly and see correctly.
A.J.G. Well, it shows how necessary it is that this man must end; and therefore the Son of man must be lifted up.
E.E.P. What is on our side has been met by the “Son of man” and has been ended.
A.J.G. Yes, He takes up all that is on man and meets it all by sacrificing Himself to bring in in Himself all that God has in His mind for man.
A.S.T. Thus He is not only the Son of man, but also the Son of God.
A.J.G. And that is so beautiful.
A.S.T. God sent His own Son.
A.J.G. Our condition made it necessary that the Son of man had to be lifted up, but it was necessary for the heart of God, that His only begotten Son had to be sent.
E.E.P. Does this being “lifted up” already contain any reference to the rest that you are talking about?
A.J.G. Well, it is making way for it. It removes all that is against God, so that man may have life in His Son.
Ques. What was included in the lifting up in its full sense?
A.J.G. It included that He was made sin. It was a brazen serpent. It is important to trace things back to their origin in scripture. In Genesis 3: 13 as to the woman, she says, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate”, that is, she came to the root of things regarding the serpent. And God has dealt with things at the root, by God “having sent his own Son, in likeness of flesh of sin, and for sin, has condemned sin in the flesh”.
K.H. Can we grasp the value of His exaltation only when we have Him before us, that He has ascended and is in heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven?
A.J.G. Yes, that is the case, but we must also take note of the depths into which He descended. Proverbs 8: 24 is very interesting in this connection, because it says, “When there were no depths, I was brought forth, when there were no fountains abounding with water”. Well, John 3 gives us the depths, that is, the Son of God enters such a position by being made sin for us, and in this position He stood in relation to the whole condemnation of sin in Himself. These are the depths. But then John 4 gives us the springs, abounding in water.
A.S.T. That is why verse 13 says, “And no one has gone up into heaven, save he who came down out of heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven”.
E.E.P. Is it not helpful that as the heavenly things come before us, the Lord immediately brings in the thought of heaven in verse 13?
A.J.G. Yes, that is very interesting, because God blesses us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ. He brought in the heavens to show us how infinitely greater His thoughts are than ours, and we should have that in our souls, that is, He has worked for us in the light of the best. He has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.
W.Schr. Is it one of His beauties that it says: “the Son of man who is in heaven”—His place is in heaven?
A.J.G. That is so. You cannot limit any Person of the Deity in any way. If a Person of the Godhead has accepted the conditions of manhood and has come down to earth, then we cannot limit that Person to the earth, and therefore He can speak of Himself as the Son of man who is in heaven. That is why God says in Jeremiah 23: 24: “Do not I fill the heavens and the earth?”
E.E.P. Is this principle important for the believer, that the more he moves in dependence, the more he understands this ascension in verse 13, we also get a deeper impression of why He descended?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. I understand it to be a principle in construction that the higher you build, the deeper you have to lay the foundations. And the more God opens up His great thoughts to us, the more He wants to give us an impression of the depths into which Christ has gone. The two things have to go together.
E.E.P. It is similar to the ladder that Jacob saw in his dream. The angels ascended and descended.
A.J.G. It is very interesting to read Proverbs 8, for it speaks of a time when there were no depths and no springs abounding with water; but all these things have now come forth in Christ and in the Spirit. God has shown in Christ how far He can go into the depths in love, and in the Spirit we have the springs, abounding with water, a spring that springs up into eternal life.
H.G. Was Paul filled full at the end of Romans 11: “O depth of riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!”?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so, and the result is that he breaks out into a doxology. It is the impression he has of the wisdom of God that produces it. It is not only the love of God, but His wisdom. And that is the important thing in Proverbs 8.
W.E. The Spirit searches the depths of God.
A.J.G. Quite so.
C.deK.F. Why does the Lord speak of faith in connection with the Son of man, and then again of faith in connection with the only-begotten Son of God?
A.J.G. The Son of man is the one who came in on our side. We must believe in Him so that we may understand how He has met our side of things. But the only-begotten Son of God has come in on God’s side to express His love. We must believe in the Name of the only-begotten Son of God in order to really get an impression of divine love.
The last verses 18-21, which we have read, show that these things have a certain moral significance, so that those who do not believe in the only-begotten Son of God show that they prefer to go on in evil. In Christ it has come to light that there is a way out for us to leave evil and to come into the good. We accept the judgment of evil on the cross, and we get life through the only-begotten Son of God in the Spirit.
K.Pf. Do we see this in the one born blind in John 9: 35? When the Jews cast him out, the Lord says to him: “Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God?”
A.J.G. I think so. But it is not only that the Son of God brings us the light of God’s love, but in the power of His own Person He opens up to us another world beyond death. For it was impossible for the Son of God to be kept in death. Thus the Son of God has opened up a different world beyond death, and that is the spiritual world.
H.G. And that introduces us to rest?
A.J.G. That is right. If God is to have His rest, then He must rest in conditions suitable to Him. And He is a Spirit and works in us on the line of that which is spiritual.
E.B. Is the life eternal mentioned here in verse 15 and 16 of the same character as in 1 John 5?
A.J.G. Yes, it says in 1 John 5, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. It is the character of a life that cannot be touched by death.
E.B. We often say that eternal life as we understand it is something collective. But here it says: “Every one”, that is more personal.
A.J.G. Well, we have to enter into eternal life individually, but the realm of eternal life is really among the saints.
E.E.P. Is it perhaps the case, as verse 20 says, that if we hate the light we do not submit to the truth?
A.J.G. It shows that we are not prepared to be exposed. Anyone who really has had to deal with God is marked by transparency.
C.deK.F. Then it is the case, as it is said, that he is practising the truth.
A.J.G. Yes, he practises the truth.
H.G. Do we see the practical side of it in 1 Corinthians 13? Love “rejoices with the truth”.
A.J.G. Yes, that is so.
Rem. Peter mentions the spiritual things in his letter. He had got an impression of it when he was with the Lord.
A.J.G. Yes, he says, “a spiritual house”, 1 Pet 2: 5.
E.E.P. So our movements in practising the truth are in accordance with verse 21?
A.J.G. “But he that practises the truth comes to the light”.
C.deK.F. Please say a little more about the meaning of “come to the light”.
A.J.G. We do not hide things. We are not trying to make things appear in a way that they are not. We cannot deceive God. We sometimes tend to maintain an external appearance and thus deceive each other; but the Lord wants to encourage us to have to do with God habitually. This makes us transparent; for God is light, and there is no darkness in Him.
E.E.P. If this were not the case, God would hold back what He has for us through the Spirit.
A.J.G. Quite so.
C.deK.F. Do you think this refers to a believer?
A.J.G. Certainly.
C.deK.F. I thought of Ananias and Sapphira in the Acts of the Apostles. They can be considered as an example of this.
A.J.G. Yes. It is very touching that God wants us to share His rest with Him. It is not possible for God to rest in conditions that do not correspond entirely to Him; and that is why He works with us in the line of spirit and truth.
E.E.P. “That they have been wrought in God” means that we are then close to God, that we understand this and that we are influenced by what came from God?
A.J.G. Quite so.
W.E. Have the people of Israel never entered into this peace of God?
A.J.G. In a way, they came in. Joshua brought them in. But the epistle to the Hebrews shows that they had never actually entered into the rest of God, so that the apostle said, “For if Jesus [Joshua] had brought them into rest, he would not have spoken afterwards about another day”. That is why the Spirit says, “To-day, if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts” (Heb 4: 7), which shows that only in Christianity can we truly achieve the peace of God.
Ques. In Christianity or in Christ?
A.J.G. Well, it is in Christianity, it is what is actually formed as substance in the saints. First of all, of course, it is in Christ; for when the Lord was here, the heavens opened above Him, and a voice said, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight”, Matt 3: 17. But then we must always remember that the assembly is the fulness of Christ; it is nothing less than that, and in it God really finds His rest.
K.Pf. “This is my rest for ever; here will I dwell, for I have desired it”, Ps 132: 14.
A.J.G. Yes. “This is my rest for ever; here will I dwell, for I have desired it”. That was said of Zion.
K.H. It is said of David that he was a man according to God’s heart, because in truth he was before God and did not hide his iniquity, Ps 32 and 51.
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