REST
Reading—Lord’s day
24th May 1959
A.J.G. The preceding section seems to indicate the necessity of the forgiveness of sins and also being set up in power. This is also public. It says, he “went out before them all”. Then when the Lord says in verse 14, “Follow me”, it involves direction. This is how our public position is regulated. It is not to be left to us to determine how we move.
W.Schr. We have seen that the Lord appears in this gospel as the perfect Servant, and in the previous section we saw that He was in the house. Here He goes again to the sea. Do we see wisdom in His movements?
A.J.G. Yes, and there is no doubt that the sea here means people in general. I was struck by the moral power in the words of the Lord, that He only had to say, “Follow me”, and Levi immediately followed.
H.G. Can it be said that, morally speaking, this is a continuation of the previous section? The paralytic in the previous section was healed and “went out before them all”. But now there is one who follows the Lord. It is not only necessary for us to be set up, but also to follow.
A.J.G. I thought that the Lord was giving instruction to us as to where to follow, and what this leads to is fellowship, for many tax gatherers and sinners were at table with Jesus and His disciples. It is a question of the public position. Thus the first epistle to the Corinthians, which has the public position in mind, immediately brings in the idea that we have been called to the fellowship.
K.M. You said yesterday that we must go from followers to believers. Do we have persons saved here who are to become disciples?
A.J.G. Yes, and their public position is that they are devoted to the fellowship. That is, we do not move on independent lines.
K.M. The disciple is called a follower, and the Lord Jesus indicates the direction.
A.J.G. Yes.
H.G. This leads again into a house. Do you think that fellowship is being realised there?
A.J.G. Yes.
W.M. We will find expansion right here. Levi was obedient. It reads: “He rose up and followed him”.
A.J.G. Yes, and then we find at the end of verse 15, that “they were many, and they followed Him”.
W.M. The Lord calls the individual in view of many.
A.J.G. Yes, and He puts them all together in the fellowship. The Lord Jesus is our bond, but the fellowship includes certain responsibilities to one another.
E.E.P. “They were many”, is it like, “I have much people in this city”, Acts 18: 10?
W.Schr. We have here first, following and then they that were at the table with His disciples.
A.J.G. The ‘lying at table’ is an expression of this fellowship. Thus we have the Lord’s table and the Lord’s supper, and they are related to the public position. Psalm 23 says, “Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies”.
H.G. The enemies show themselves immediately.
A.J.G. I noticed that.
E.E.P. The enemies will surround him immediately.
A.J.G. Do you think that the enemies surrounded Jesus and His disciples?
E.E.P. Yes.
A.J.G. The religious world looks for people with a good reputation. It is said in Luke 7 that the Pharisee was astonished that the Lord spoke to a woman who was a sinner. But the fellowship really consists of sinners who have come to repentance.
W.Schr. Why do the Pharisees not turn directly to the Lord? They speak to His disciples.
A.J.G. I think they were afraid to speak to the Lord. But it is important to bear in mind in the gospels when the enemies turn to the disciples, that the Lord always answers them.
H.G. Does that not put the disciples and ourselves to the test?
A.J.G. I think that is how it works out.
H.G. When Peter was asked if the Lord was paying tax, Peter answered “yes”, but he needed adjustment.
A.J.G. If the Lord brought in someone locally who has a bad reputation, we would also be tested. People might say, why do you have fellowship with such a one? The answer would be: He has come to repentance.
E.E.P. Does this indicate that we are all equal when we have come to repentance?
A.J.G. This is what the fellowship is actually composed of—sinners who have come to repentance.
E.E.P. Is it often so difficult to repent?
A.J.G. Well, if we truly follow the Lord, we will come to repentance; for if we follow Him, we will see that He leads us to the cross, where sin has been judged according to God. Then we come to a correct assessment of sin. Repentance means that we acquire God’s assessment of sin and judge it accordingly.
W.Schr. This is also how we see that there must be those who are called here to the fellowship, because the Lord says: “They that are strong have not need of a physician, but those who are ill. I have not come to call righteous men, but sinners”.
A.J.G. Thus, in the days of David, those who were afflicted and had debts came to him.
E.E.P. Does this also show that we must rely entirely upon the Lord if we come into contact with those who are considered tax gatherers and sinners, and we want to help them? The Lord then shows us what we have to say.
A.J.G. Yes, that is so.
W.M. We can see how the Lord handled things in a different way from how it was done before. The Pharisees always ask, “Why?”
W.Schr. Surely it was a great test for the Pharisees when the Lord said, “I have not come to call righteous men”?
A.J.G. The Lord introduced the grace of God and true freedom.
E.E.P. Could the disciples understand what was going on?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. Because they followed the Lord, they learned to understand everything as He guided them. In John 6 there were some who no longer walked with Jesus, and the Lord said to the Twelve, “Will ye also go away?” Then Peter said, “Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal”. I do not believe that Peter understood everything about what they were to be led into, but he had the impression that what the Lord spoke was life eternal. They would never have had an impression of this if they listened to the scribes and Pharisees.
H.G. So this “follow me” is always important for us.
A.J.G. Yes, it is. We see and recognise the movements of the Lord in the service He gives us.
H.G. I also thought of John 1: 39: The disciples abode with Him that day.
A.J.G. Yes, the thought of following is immediately found in the first chapter of the gospel of John, just as it is in different chapters throughout the gospel, and it is also the last word at the end of the last chapter. The Lord said to Peter, “Follow thou me”.
H.G. It is encouraging to see that John followed already.
A.J.G. In the next section we see that our position here is to be influenced by the Lord. While the Lord was with them it was not the time to fast, but because He now is no longer here, fasting is appropriate.
W.Schr. Would there be great pleasure from hearing the teaching direct from His mouth when they were at table with Him?
A.J.G. Yes.
K.M. The disciples of John and the disciples of the Pharisees are mentioned here together.
A.J.G. John’s disciples should have been found with Jesus, but because they stayed with John, they were in danger of being connected with the Pharisees.
K.M. They must have had John before them and not the Lord?
A.J.G. Yes. But the ministry of John pointed to Christ.
K.M. So we should never hang on to a servant, but follow where his ministry leads to.
E.E.P. When the Pharisees fasted, perhaps it was just a ritual?
A.J.G. There was no life in it.
H.W.O. Can it be said that the disciples of John had missed the opportunities that were mentioned in John 1 when John pointed to Him? That is why they did not get in touch with the true bridegroom, as we read in John 3.
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. In the first chapter of the gospel of John, we have two of John’s disciples who heard Him speak and who followed Jesus. Then later in the gospel of John, John the baptist says, “He must increase, but I must decrease”. Thus we see that John’s ministry was directed to Christ. Nevertheless, here we find some of John’s disciples in connection with the Pharisees.
W.Schr. The Pharisees also wanted to make the baptism of John a ritual, but the Lord says: “ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light”, John 5: 35.
A.J.G. When Paul came to Ephesus, he found some disciples who knew only the baptism of John, and he said to them, “that they should believe on him that was coming after him, that is, on Jesus. And when they heard that, they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus”.
H.G. Does this then give us freedom so that we are able to judge for ourselves when fasting is appropriate, and also if it is appropriate to stand in all the joy that we have as the assembly in relation with Him?
A.J.G. I think so. In the assembly we have a wealth of joy. It is like the bride chamber. But in the world outside, where the Lord has no place, fasting is appropriate.
K.M. Have we the privilege of being in the assembly only on Lord’s day mornings?
A.J.G. It is in a special way then, but I think that whenever the saints are together and the Spirit is free to work among them, they get a taste of the joy that does not belong to this world.
W.Schr. Is fasting appropriate when we feel that the Lord’s rights are not being granted to Him?
E.E.P. So it was quite right that the disciples did not fast?
A.J.G. Fasting does not mean that we deny the flesh, but it is a renunciation of things which we are legitimately entitled to.
H.W.O. Does the question: “Can the sons of the bride chamber fast while the bridegroom is with them?” test us as to what the bridegroom means to us?
A.J.G. Yes, and do we feel His absence? But in the position when He is with us—that is, when the Lord comes into the assembly, it is, of course, not an occasion for fasting; but if we then go out into the world where He is not, then the matter of fasting is appropriate.
E.E.P. Is then the power of the Holy Spirit available to us especially?
A.J.G. Fasting is needed to bring strength in. It is said in Acts 13 that “they were ministering to the Lord and fasting”, and then the Spirit spoke. Verse 2 says, “And as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said”, and then again in verse 3, “Then, having fasted and prayed, and having laid their hands on them, they let them go”. The sovereignty of the Spirit wanted to test them. The Spirit chose the first and last of those mentioned. The aim of fasting is to set aside all these natural thoughts and intentions. Would it be right to say that the fasting has resulted in allowing the Spirit freedom among us?
H.G. I wondered about this passage in Acts 13: “And as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said”. This led to an expansion of the work; they sent out Barnabas and Saul.
A.J.G. And Mark with them. That was the beginning of his story, as being devoted to the testimony. I think he came to acknowledge that he had not fasted enough; otherwise he would not have turned back to Jerusalem and left Paul and Barnabas.
H.G. So it is certainly very important that we understand the necessity of fasting at the right time. Mark had much to learn in the course of the later years before he was able to write this gospel.
A.J.G. Quite so.
E.E.P. So fasting makes us free from everything and we come without any hindrance under the influence of the absent bridegroom?
A.J.G. Yes, the Lord is absent, but the Spirit is here. Fasting makes room for the Spirit to come in. So we should be alert that every exercise becomes an opportunity for the Spirit to speak.
K.M. It was emphasised that fasting is important at the right time. Do we find this in verse 21, which says, “No one sews a patch of new cloth on an old garment”?
A.J.G. The Lord pointed out that Christianity is something completely new, and it should not be associated with the old system at all.
H.G. Is not this also confirmed in Antioch? There was such a spiritual state that the disciples were first called Christians there.
A.J.G. Quite so. Mr Taylor has often said that in Acts 2 they continued in the doctrine of the apostles and in the assembly; they did not go back to Moses, they continued in the teachings and fellowship of the apostles. It was something completely new, of which the apostles were the authorised representatives.
W.Schr So there is nothing to improve on this old garment, it has to be done away.
A.J.G. Yes, that right.
H.G. When we have the bridegroom, and when we think of the bride, the assembly, should we remember that each family has its own glory? You mentioned Moses. The saints of the Old Testament or John the baptist were before this time, and then the assembly came later.
A.J.G. Yes, and the assembly is so great that the Lord says that the least in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than John the baptist, even though John the baptist is the greatest of those born of women.
H.G. I thought we should be taught in this way to understand better the character of the assembly, the bride, and the greatness and glory of the Bridegroom.
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. So Elisha took up the mantle of Elijah, which fell from him. This is the mantle of the man who went to heaven. Thus Christianity is to take on character from the Man who has gone to heaven. It is not like an old garment that has been repaired.
E.E.P. This example in verse 21 should have been enough in itself, but now we get a supplement in verse 22, so that we understand it even better.
A.J.G. We must have a new vessel to enjoy this new joy in.
W.Schr. Is this more inward, while the garment shows more the external?
A.J.G. Yes.
E.E P. Why is the external here first and the inward afterwards?
A.J.G. Well, the Pharisees were occupied with what was external.
E.E.P. The new is always brought first. It says: “new cloth on an old garment” and “new wine into old skins”.
A.J.G. Yes. We read at the end of Hebrews 8: 13, “In that he says New, he has made the first old; but that which grows old and aged is near disappearing”. This is characteristic of Christianity, which God has said is “New”.
H.G. John the baptist had fully understood this, and that is why he was probably the greatest of those born of women?
A.J.G. Yes, that is so.
W.Schr. Can we say that the new one is no longer growing old?
A.J.G. No, never. It is then said in Hebrews 12: 24 that we have come to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant. The word means “fresh” there. It is the thought of fresh and youthful, which will never grow old.
W.M. The new wine was better than the best old wine.
A.J.G. Yes, that is right. Does this next section show that a great feature in Christianity is liberty?
H.G. “The law of the Spirit of life … has set me free from the law of sin and of death”, Rom 8: 2. We are not subject to commandments and statutes, but all this wealth is at our disposal, so that we can move in liberty where the Lord Himself is.
A.J.G. The Lord was always in complete liberty in His movements. It is very touching that the Lord said, “The sabbath was made on account of for man”, for originally the sabbath was intended by God for His own rest. But now we see in what the Lord says that men were in the thoughts of God from the very beginning.
H.G. And the old system has not entered into the rest: “If they shall enter into my rest”, Heb 3: 11.
A.J.G. No. In Genesis 2 we have the first reference to the sabbath. On the sixth day we have the type of Christ and the assembly, that is, God created man, male and female created He them, so that as soon as God brought in this thought, Christ and the assembly, we will find the thought of His rest introduced.
E.E.P. The rest serves to enable us to enjoy all this.
A.J.G. Well, it is wonderful that when God establishes His own rest, He has man in His thoughts; for the Lord says: “The sabbath was made on account of man”.
H.G. Was David the man according to the thoughts of God, because he is mentioned here in this context?
A.J.G. It was particularly pleasing to God that David could move in such liberty. It shows that he had a real knowledge of God.
K.H. It is said here: “The sabbath was made on account of man”. Do we gather from this that God rests in the blessing of man?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so.
W.Schr. This new wine cannot be kept in the old skins.
E.E.P. Do we find this patchwork in what is called systems, among those who do not have Christ in this way?
A.J.G. Yes, they all have it before them, making much of the first man by always putting something new on the old man.
E.E.P. Therefore, “to be born again” means ‘to be born from above’.
A.J.G. Yes, it is a wholly new origin.
H.G. Is it not also very encouraging here, that David and those who were with him ate? Thus we should be in the same liberty as the Lord was free Himself because He is the Lord of the sabbath.
A.J.G. Is this not seen in the way that the disciples went and picked the ears? It is not said that the Lord did it, but they did it, and without any instruction from Him. This shows the liberty in which they were.
E.E.P. What the Lord said here was for the Pharisees’ sake, was it not?
A.J.G. Yes.
W.Schr. The ears of corn were food that was a nourishing of the believers, just as David also ate the shewbread, which speaks of the saints?
A.J.G. Yes, it is remarkable that David fed himself from the shewbread just as he was preparing to enter the time when the people of God treated him so badly. In the times of conflict, it is always good to feed on shewbread, that is, of how the saints appear before God in Christ.
H.G. If we see the saints in the presence of God as here, we will be able to move in the light of this, even in difficult circumstances.
W.Schr. It is said here that this happened under the high priest Abiathar. It was a priestly matter.
A.J.G. Yes.
E.E.P. Can one perhaps think of Paul when he was in captivity and wrote all the prison epistles, so that all the letters he wrote from captivity show how he was nourished by the saints?
A.J.G. Well, he certainly received impressions and revelations directly from the Lord in prison. Mr Taylor pointed out a few years ago4 that the time Paul was in prison in Rome, was not so much the suffering of the testimony, but more that the Lord prepared him to be restful and free from the activity of ministry in order to receive the full light of God’s thoughts on the assembly, and to communicate them. Thus the richest letters of Paul were written from Rome.
W.M. It is said that we walk by faith and not by sight. Can we link this?
A.J.G. What are you thinking about?
W.M. I think we have liberty in faith, because David was able to accept spiritual help.
A.J.G. Yes. It is worth noting that the Lord says: “how he entered into the house of God”. This shows how things take on a spiritual character in our minds through faith and by the Spirit.
W.Schr. The house of God was probably completely forgotten publicly?
A.J.G. Well, it was not built yet, the tabernacle was there, of course.
E.E.P. Was David here really above the high priest?
A.J.G. Yes, David seems to be in control here.
E.E.P. Thus the Lord must be in control: “the Son of man is Lord of the sabbath also”. Is that not encouraging?
A.J.G. The Son of man comes in so that man can receive all that is for man.
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