Reading 6—Thursday afternoon
A.J.G. We all recognise that this chapter is unique because the Lord was not under any restriction when He spoke to the Father. When He spoke to the disciples, He was under certain restrictions, for He said that there were certain things that He could not speak to them. But when He spoke to His Father, He was under no limits. That is why His prayer gives us an impression of the relationship that existed between the Father and the Son. And this prayer applies all the time, where Christ is above and the Spirit is here.
The Lord says, “Father, the hour is come ...”. Before, He had said, “the hour is coming and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth”. Therefore, this day of the Spirit was in the thoughts of Christ long before, and now He says, “the hour is come”. He asks to be glorified so that He may glorify the Father, and He immediately speaks of wanting to give eternal life to those whom the Father had given Him. This shows how much the idea of eternal life was in the Lord’s thoughts, namely that the saints, in the presence of death, should enjoy what cannot be touched by death; and thus, in the power of the Spirit, should anticipate what will be fully established in the day of Christ.
C.deK.F. The Spirit could not come before the Lord Jesus was glorified.
A.J.G. We have that in chapter 7, that the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus was not yet glorified. But when the Lord took His place above and poured out the Spirit, a day was brought in when all the thoughts of God were made available to the saints.
E.E.P. How it must have moved the heart of the Father when the Son spoke to Him, as He Himself comes to the completion of all that was necessary for Him to do in order to bring forward this glorification.
A.J.G. Yes, it is about this wonderful hour: “the hour has come”. What deep feelings were in these words, and I believe that this would also help us to get an ever-increasing impression of the present time. Therein lies a certain triumph for God, that He is already establishing His thoughts in the presence of evil in the world, and in a relatively small number of people. But God always establishes in testimony what He will later bring out in public. It is therefore important that the saints fully know what eternal life means before the day of eternity comes.
E.B. Could you say something about verse 2: “as thou hast given him authority over all flesh”?
A.J.G. This refers to the fact that the Lord has won His rights over all through redemption. Through redemption He now has the right to give the Holy Spirit as He pleases. Thus it is the Father’s thought that the Lord should give the Spirit to all those whom the Father has given Him, for eternal life is understood and enjoyed in the Spirit in the present moment.
A.S.T. What does it mean when He lifts His eyes to heaven?
A.J.G. It is an attitude that speaks of His links with the Father. At the tomb of Lazarus, it is also said that He lifted up His eyes.
A.S.T. I wondered if the heavenly thought here is particularly before us?
A.J.G. Surely that is the case. God’s greatest thoughts are connected to the heavenly. It has often been asked why God maintains the thought of heaven and earth in eternal conditions. One can understand that heaven and earth are connected to His ways, but in eternity He has a new heaven and a new earth.
E.E.P. Would you say that this looking up and lifting up His eyes to heaven is for our sake because He, as a divine Person, knows exactly what is in heaven and what is going on in heaven?
A.J.G. This directs our thoughts to heaven and a heavenly Father, so that on another occasion the Lord speaks to the Father as Lord of heaven and earth. But God seems to take up the heavens as opposed to the earth, to give us an impression of the immense greatness of His thoughts and ways. Yesterday we referred to Isaiah 55, where verse 9 says, “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts”. If we look at heaven in relation to the earth and see how immensely higher it is than the earth, then we should get an impression of the immense greatness of God’s ways and thoughts.
Here in verse 1, the Lord speaks as one who recognises His place in this Economy. Thus He says; “Father … glorify thy Son”. The Father is the highest, the Son is in a subordinate place in relation to the Father. But when we come to verse 5, the Lord speaks in a way that shows personal equality. He says, “and now glorify me, thou Father, along with thyself, with the glory which I had along with thee before the world was”. This should always be as a light in our souls, that while we know God only in the Economy into which He has entered, which includes mutual relations between the Father and the Son and the Spirit, at the same time the Persons of the Godhead are personally equal.
E.E.P. The 16th chapter ends with: “I have overcome the world”, and now the Lord Jesus takes this attitude and reveals to us all that He has to say to the Father. In order to understand this, we must also maintain and preserve this attitude.
A.J.G. He is now free to open up to us the thoughts of God in relation to this wonderful time. But what you draw our attention to is very important, that the Lord ended by saying to the disciples, “I have overcome the world”.
E.E.P. I thought this was the key to the thought of rest, because here we arrive at: “I have overcome the world”.
A.J.G. We must be conquerors of the world if we want to have a full share in these precious things that can be known by the Spirit. The Lord went out of the world after He had overcome it. I believe that many of the exercises that are now emerging among us are destined so that we become complete conquerors of the world before we are taken out of it.
E.B. In verse 3, eternal life is associated with the knowledge of God and with the knowledge of Jesus Christ. Can you say something about the nature of this knowledge?
A.J.G. I think that is to be preserved in a practical way while we are in testimony here. Mr Taylor said many years ago6 that the knowledge of the only true God saves us from idolatry, and the knowledge of Jesus Christ, whom He sent, frees us from lawlessness. We must be freed from these things in order to have an effective part in the testimony.
A.S.T. “That thy Son may glorify thee”—what is included in it, for in verse 4 He says, “I have glorified thee on the earth”?
A.J.G. The Lord refers to what immediately follows, that is, the giving of eternal life to those given to Him by the Father. When the Lord was cast out of the world, I think, the enemies of Christ were surprised to find that there was a company of disciples on the earth who received power through the Holy Spirit, and that the Name of Christ continued in power; and increased; and so far it has been continued.
A.S.T. They were elevated to a heavenly position of things while they were still here.
A.J.G. Yes, I think we can see that it is in the thoughts of the Lord that everything that appears in Him personally in a perfect way, should also be seen characteristically in His own. He was the heavenly One, but it is said: “such as the heavenly one, such also the heavenly ones”.
W.T. In the first epistle to Timothy it says: “Lay hold of eternal life”, 1 Tim 6: 12. Do you have that before you?
A.J.G. Being continually in the enjoyment of eternal life is the secret of victory over the world. In the enjoyment of eternal life in our own soul and among our brethren, we are completely superior to the world, and this is essential if we want to be in the world for God, whether for His service or for His testimony. Thus the Lord constantly reverted to the Mount of Olives, which shows that His life was in the spiritual realm while He was publicly engaged in the testimony.
C.deK.F. I thought you might say something about how everything here in John is brought to a conclusion. In the fourth verse, the Lord says, “I have completed the work which thou gavest me that I should do it”, and in the 19th chapter we read that He said, “It is finished”.
A.J.G. Yes, God attaches great importance to completion. We have already referred to Genesis 1 and to the activities of God there, and at the beginning of Genesis 2 it says: “And the heavens and the earth and all their host were finished”. Then it goes on: “And God had finished on the seventh day his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day”. That is why completion is something very important with God. The Lord said that it was His food to do the will of Him who had sent Him, and to complete His work; and in the second epistle to Timothy, Paul says, just before he leaves this scene (in chap 4: 7): “I have combated the good combat, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith”. The Lord has sorrowfully to say about Sardis, “I have not found thy works complete before my God”.
E.E.P. Do you think that we should see how God has operated and has completed His works, that we too, should be exercised regarding completion on our side?
A.J.G. Well, if we see that God works in view of completion and does not rest until He has reached completion, then I think that will help us practically to bring things to completion. That is why we must listen attentively to everything the Spirit says and see that we are in line with the truth that is being presented to us.
E.E.P. Is this how we are built upon the teachings of the apostles and the prophets, and is that what is accomplished?
A.J.G. The Lord gives gifts, including the apostles and prophets and evangelists and shepherds and teachers, with a view to a perfect end. It says: “until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ”, Eph 4: 13. Thus, in any service to the Lord, in which we can all have a part, we should always have in mind a perfect result for God.
I think we should see that we have finality before us from verse 24 to the end. But before we get there, we see the Lord expressing His desire for us in relation to two particularly striking features, one is sanctification and the other is unity. These two things that the Lord emphasises are important while we are here, namely that we should be sanctified by the truth and that we should be one, just as He and the Father are one.
A.S.T. The glory of God’s activities is seen in the fact that they are all worked out while we are here.
A.J.G. Yes, that is so. Thus God overcomes all the apparent wisdom of the enemy, if one can call it wisdom at all, and sets up His thoughts among the saints in the victory over the world in the presence of evil.
A.S.T. Do we need to understand what the Lord says in verse 16: “They are not of the world”?
A.J.G. The Lord presents them with a perfect standard: “They are not of the world, as I am not of the world”. I believe we must always remember what we started with in the first reading, that we are not born of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, that is, according to our derivation, we are of God. Much may come in with our flesh, but when we have come to a judgment about it and learn how to make ourselves available to the power of the Spirit, then we can be here in accordance with what we are in our derivation, namely from God.
C.deK.F. Is it significant that the Lord Jesus first speaks to the Father as a “Holy Father” before He speaks of sanctification?
A.J.G. That is very telling. It expresses the deep feelings of the Lord that He was able to address the Father in this way. It shows that the Lord certainly wants us to stand completely aside from any defilement of this world. Hence Jude says at the end of his letter: “But to him that is able to keep you without stumbling, and to set you with exultation blameless before his glory”. God is able to do that.
W.E. When it says, “They were thine, and thou gavest them me”, can we think of God’s purpose before the foundation of the world?
A.J.G. Yes, we belonged to the Father before the foundation of the word according to purpose, but in time, I think we were given Christ. In any case, it is about, “They were thine”. The Lord says, “and all that is mine is thine, and all that is thine mine”. I believe that nothing should bring forth more sanctification in us than when we read these words of the Lord.
H.G. Is this to be associated with the inheritance of God in the saints?
A.J.G. Yes, God has His inheritance in the saints. It is precisely the word “saints” that means those who are sanctified, who are set apart for God. But here the Lord shows that the name of the Father is the great power by which He had kept the disciples; and He asks the Father that they may be preserved in His Name.
H.Mö. Does the Lord not have the full extent of His work here before Him?
A.J.G. Quite so, He has. I think the great value of this chapter is that the Lord has the full scope of the testimony in His thoughts, and what is essential for the saints to be preserved in relation to it.
E.O. The Lord says, “… I sanctify myself for them”.
A.J.G. Well, that is such a very fine word. That is, He set Himself apart. Of course, as to Christ it was not moral sanctification, He did not need to be morally sanctified in any way, but He separated Himself personally and in His position, by taking His place outside this world in the presence of the Father.
E.E.P. Can one say that the expression “They were thine” is related to the Father, and that when He says, “and thou gavest them me”, we see the activities of the Son? When we see the activities of God, we see the activity of the Father, but also the activity of the Son, and the activity of the Spirit.
A.J.G. That is the case. The Lord does not mention the Spirit in this chapter because He does not need to, for the Father knows the Spirit, and He knows the place He fills. In chapters 14, 15, and 16, it was necessary for the Lord to speak to the disciples and to us of the Spirit, so that we may learn to appreciate the Spirit and honour Him.
E.B. He says, “that they may be all one, as thou, Father, art in me and I in thee”. Can you say anything about this oneness?
A.J.G. Before this oneness, however, we see how important sanctification is, because it is so essential that this sanctification should be something real with us. To the extent that the enemy succeeds in bringing in any element of the world among us, he breaks that unity apart. True unity can only exist in the power of sanctification.
E.E.P. You should not apply this to your brother or to your sister in the locality, but you apply it to yourself.
A.J.G. We must always remember that the Lord says, “my assembly”. He says, “… hades’ gates shall not prevail against it”, Matt 16: 18. But the fact that He says, “… shall not prevail against it”, shows only too clearly that they are always trying to get in. That is why we must be so vigilant, because each and every one of us can become the means by which Satan comes in.
W.Schr. The truth has a great place here.
A.J.G. Yes, it has.
W.T. Verse 23 says, “That they may be perfected into one”. Is this going a little further than being one?
A.J.G. This is looking ahead to the final result in the heavenly city. But our brother was referring to the truth. In verse 17 we have: “Sanctify them by the truth: thy word is truth”. This is the truth concerning God, as God is known. Thus the Lord makes much of the Name of the Father. We find in the first epistle of John in what He says to the young men in chapter 2 that the Father is contrasted with the world. It reads: “If anyone love the world, the love of the Father is not in him”, chap 2: 15. Then it goes on: “because all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father”. When we are taught in this way in the Name of the Father, we learn to love what the Father loves and to hate what the Father hates.
E.E P. Should not this title and phrase “Holy Father” in verse 11 touch us deeply as the name of love that includes the service of love?
A.J.G. Yes; but it is the Father as He was known by Christ as a Man who was in this world. The Lord says, “I am no longer in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee”. There would be no point, reverently speaking, of referring to the Father as a “Holy Father” if the Lord had been in heaven. But the Lord was in the world, and He knew exactly what the world meant, and from this point of view He speaks to the Father as a “Holy Father”.
C.deK.F. It was necessary that they should be preserved because He says, “I also have sent them into the world”.
A.J.G. Quite so.
A.S.T. Surely being sanctified through truth must include the service of the Spirit?
A.J.G. Quite so. Please say a little more about it.
A.S.T. You said earlier that there is no reference to the Spirit in this chapter, because it is not necessary.
A.J.G. But everything that actually matters in the saints in connection with these expressed desires of the Lord is indeed effected by the Spirit.
A.S.T. So it is important that we understand how these things are effected.
A.J.G. As we said earlier in a reading, the consideration of God’s activities shows us very clearly that God finds all His resources in Himself, be it in the Father, the Son or the Spirit. God does not need to go outside His own self to bring His thoughts to fruition.
Rem. God is all in all.
A.J.G. We will finally arrive at this, then men will be brought in, and God dwells with men. “God himself shall be with them, their God”, Rev 21: 3.
W.E. The word tells us what we have to do with regard to unity: “… using diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace”, Eph 4: 3. The Spirit has come and baptised all into one body.
A.J.G. That is true, and that is why we must, as it is said, use diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit with all long-suffering. But on the other hand, when we move on this ground, it saves us from not maintaining unity. But unity can only be brought about if we all have the same object before us.
A.B. Did John touch sanctification when he fell dead at His feet in Revelation 1?
A.J.G. Well, there was something very serious in what he saw, that the Lord was moving in the midst of the seven golden lampstands, His eyes like a flame of fire, and He had a great zeal for God. Perhaps we do not know enough of this sight of Christ. What do you think yourself?
A.B. I thought that is why he could be shown Philadelphia.
A.J.G. Yes, that is so. John was in complete harmony with the thoughts of Christ, and yet when he saw the Lord in this attitude, that He was walking in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, he fell at His feet as dead. But the Lord laid his right hand upon him and said, “Fear not”, Rev 1: 17. It must have been a great joy for John to find that the Lord in Philadelphia has an assembly that is entirely in keeping with His thoughts. It is remarkable that the Lord introduces Himself to the assembly in Philadelphia as ‘the holy, the true’, and He truly comes before us in this character in the 6th and 7th chapter of this gospel. In chapter 6 Peter professes Him as ‘the holy one of God’, and in chapter 7: 18 He says, “but he that seeks the glory of him that has sent him, he is true, and unrighteousness is not in him”. Therefore, the only way in which we can maintain conditions in the assembly suitable for God is to keep Christ before us as the holy, the true, that is, by fully corresponding with all that God looks for in man on the one hand, and being faithful to the Name of God in our testimony on the other.
A.S.T. When the Lord says, “I sanctify myself for them”, is that related to chapter 10; 17, where he says, “I lay down my life that I may take it again”?
A.J.G. Yes. The Lord has taken a place in the presence of the Father through His death, and we must learn our place, and what we are in Him; but the moral element of death must come in on our side.
Rem. This is in a way connected with Ephesians 5, that He loved the assembly and gave Himself for it.
A.J.G. Yes, so the Lord has before Himself to present the assembly to Himself glorious.
E.E.P. John 17 often mentions “giving” and “given”.
A.J.G. It shows that the whole thing is purposed. There is nothing random about divine activities.
But now we are talking about unity, which is so important. The Lord says in verse 21, “that they may be all one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us, that the world may believe that thou hast sent me”. I hardly believe that any testimony is as effective as the testimony of unity among the saints. As it is said in Acts 4: 32: “And the heart and soul of the multitude of those that had believed were one”. Immediately thereafter, we find in chapter 5 that Satan tried to break the unity by bringing in an element of corruption through Ananias and Sapphira.
W.E. Verse 13 says, “And now I come to thee. And these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in them”. One of our brethren wrote about this: If a person is converted, he can rejoice. But if this converted soul continues to have closer links in the Spirit or in love with the Person of the Lord Jesus, the joy that is associated with it is immeasurably greater.
A.J.G. Yes, and the Lord desired that His joy in us is complete, namely the joy of being here in fidelity to the Father and of fully conforming to His heart.
E.E.P. Would what the Lord says: “I have given them thy word” (v 14), and in verse 22: “And the glory … I have given them”, lead to this unity?
A.J G. Yes, “thy word” is the word of God in testimony. This is the light in which God has now been made known, in order that He might be represented and carried on in testimony. Then the Lord gives us the glory of sonship, so that here, strictly speaking, we are not servants, even if we can also in a sense see ourselves as servants of the Lord; but here we see that we should stand in the testimony, and in freedom as sons, and also with the affections of sons.
C.deK.F. Do you think that the apostle Paul has before him the fulness of this part of the chapter when he writes to the Ephesians at the beginning of the first chapter?
A.J.G. Of course, there we have a complete representation of the Father’s purpose. But in Paul’s letter to the Galatians, he says that God had revealed His Son in him, so that Paul not only proclaimed that Jesus was the Son of God, but in the movements of Paul we can see all the freedom and dignity of a son. We may have the awareness that our measure is very small, but I believe that the Lord here desires that we stand in the testimony as those who have the same affections for God that also characterised Him.
C.deK.F. I thought of the words of the Lord Jesus here: “that the world may believe that thou hast sent me” (v 21), as if the special witness is given here in the position they occupy.
A.J.G. Yes, I think we can see that in the initial chapters of the Acts of the Apostles. We see the saints in wonderful unity, and a testimony was presented in them, which could not be contradicted. It may be that in the days near the Lord’s return that the Lord may bring us back to the characteristics seen in the early days of Pentecost.
E.E.P. I wondered if verse 21 did not test us very much inwardly, for there is a oneness there, so to speak, on the inner side, and then, as has already been said, towards the world in the testimony. If one is missing, then the other cannot be.
A.J.G. No, we have that in Ephesians 4: 4: “There is one body and one Spirit”. The Spirit brings forth the feelings of the body among the saints. That is the inner side. Then we have: “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”, that is more the side of the testimony and may include suffering. When the sufferings began in the Acts of the Apostles, we find that this only brought forth greater unity.
But now the Lord speaks in verse 24 of His desire that He has concerning us. He says, “Father, as to those whom thou hast given me, I desire that where I am they also may be with me, that they may behold my glory which thou hast given me, for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world …”. This is a glory that we behold; we do not share it with Him, but we only behold it. It is a glory that is connected with Christ as a Man, and yet we understand that He was loved in His person before the foundation of the world. From all eternity there was love between the persons of the Godhead. But now here One is seen as a Man and in sonship, loved by the Father, so that we may learn in Him what the Father has in His mind for man, even though the Lord always stands out distinct as One who is unique and always has precedence.
A.S.T. Does this have a current application, or will it be in the future?
A J G. It will be in its fulness in the future, but I believe that it is already now known in the assembly, that is, it is possible for us to behold Christ in this way by the Spirit.
K.Pf. Does this link with 2 Corinthians 3: 18?
A.J.G. It says, “looking on the glory of the Lord”. Yes, I think that is included. The verse shows that we should all be in it. It says: “But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed ... from glory to glory”, so that we pass from one to the other. I believe that this includes the fact that we grasp Christ as “the Christ” to whom God has entrusted to bring to pass His purpose, but because He is one of the Godhead, He has come into this position as a Man, so that these thoughts may be for our benefit. That is why it includes for us that we apprehend the whole structure of this dispensation.
H.G. Can this be combined with Ephesians 3, that we are able to apprehend with all the saints?
A.J.G. Yes, “the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts”, v 17. If this is the case, we are able to apprehend with all the saints in our hearts what the breadth and length and depth and height is, and then we know the love of Christ. That is what keeps us in the centre of these things. Thus we have the love of Christ in expressing that we should be with Him where He is.
E.E.P. I was thinking that what we see here in these chapters is that the divine Persons support each other so that this is achieved and that it depends on us?
A.J.G. All divine activities are done in the view of man, and the Spirit is essential, even if He is not mentioned here, in order to consciously introduce us to all this.
W.E. Should the light and glory that are in the city of the living God already shine in the assembly according to the thoughts of God?
A.J.G. That should be the case. Things are small and weak in our eyes, but this is how God works, for it is His glory, His honour, to hide a thing. He works very great things among the saints in conditions of external smallness and weakness, and thus He hides things from the world around us. But we should keep our eyes open so that we may see the moral glory of what God does in the saints.
A.S.T. And that opens our eyes to the active love that existed before it was even expressed.
A.J.G. Yes, that is so.
E.E.P. Are there deep feelings here when the Lord says, “Righteous Father”?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. But now we come to the finality in the last verse. The Lord says, “And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them”. There are two things here; first of all, that the love, with which the Father loves Christ, should be in us. This is not exactly what we have in verse 23, which says: “... loved them as thou hast loved me”. It is a precious truth that the Father loves us as He loves Christ. But now the love that the Father has for Christ should also be in us; and this is possible through the Spirit of the Father. It is wonderful that the Spirit accepts the character of the Spirit of the Father in order to bring the affections and feelings of the Father into our hearts, so that we, as true sons, can be in complete accord with the thoughts of the Father. What a wonderful grace that the Father brings us so close to Himself. Then the Lord continues to say, “and I in them”. This shows that there is something in the saints that is in agreement with Christ for the pleasure of the Father. So the Spirit is also ready to carry out the activity of the Spirit of God’s Son, so that the feelings of the Son towards the Father may be expressed in our hearts in the power of the Spirit of God’s Son. This gives us an idea of how close God has brought us to Himself, that we may, through the Spirit, share in the Son’s thoughts of love in relation to the Father.
C.deK.F. Therefore, does the Lord say: “my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”, John 20: 17?
A.J.G. Yes, the Son says, “My Father and your Father, and my God and your God”, and the Father says, “This is my beloved Son”.
Ques. Do we share the joy of the Father in this way?
A.J.G. Yes, and also the joy of the Son. What were the feelings that were included when the Lord said, “Abba, Father”? We too should take on this language, not as a mere saying, but we should enter into these feelings.
E.E.P. How this should affect us when we see how the Spirit has knowledge of all that is in this prayer between Son and Father here, and He is now working to make this available to us in our hearts.
A.J.G. I think so. We can see that the last verses (vv 24-26) show very clearly that finality is reached in the saints, and also the conditions in which God can find His rest.
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