WALKING (4)
[p. 243] WALKING (4)
John 1:29 - 42; John 5:5 - 15; John 6:16 - 21
JT We are now about to speak, not of types, but of antitypes, that is, what answers actually to the types in the Old Testament of which we have been reading in Numbers; for Numbers is the book which brings out this matter of walking and moving. It seems as if John is particularly fitted to treat of this subject of the Lord Jesus here on earth, and he brings in John the baptist first to set out his thought in him. John the apostle would be especially affected by the testimony of John the baptist, so he speaks of the latter’s testimony, saying, “And this is the witness of John”, John 1:19. That is to show us how John the baptist witnessed, and that that witness was in regard of Jesus. He came in for that purpose — to be a witness; and so in verse 26 he further speaks of the Lord as One already there, standing: “In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know, he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to unloose”, John 1:26. He had not yet seen the Lord evidently; in fact he says, “I knew him not”. And so he tells us how he became acquainted with the Lord by the Spirit coming upon Him as a dove. The word to him was: “Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit”. And then he says, “And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God”. So that it is the walk of Jesus, the movements of Christ, that are before us now. On the next day (verse 35) it speaks of the Lord as walking and John seeing Him: “And, looking at Jesus as he walked, he says, Behold the Lamb of God”. These two paragraphs are I think intended to affect us as to the walk of Jesus, being in the first instance a sacrificial walk. That is, if we are to carry it out in our own lives it is a question of being [p. 244] sacrificial or unselfish, moving in relation to others and for the good of others.
LES Would all these days have a bearing on the encampments as we were looking at them this morning?
JT That is a good suggestion. Perhaps you will enlarge on it.
LES I was wondering if they did not in some way correspond with the movements of the Lord. We get constantly the idea of the morrow, the Lord taking up a new position which calls for the attention of those who were listening.
JT The Lord standing would not suggest any idleness or want of occupation but would coalesce with the encampments of Israel. They were never idle, as it were; there was always something for God going on. And this word for ‘standing’ in verse 26 indicates that one has taken his place and stands; that is, it is for a purpose, not casual. Allusion is made to Genesis 18 and other such passages where Jehovah stood. The brethren will remember in Genesis 18 the visit of Jehovah with two others to Abraham. It is said, “And he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, three men standing near him” Genesis 18:2, and the note says, ‘stationed themselves’, not simply standing. Indeed this very verse is alluded to in John 1:26; it is the same Jehovah really, but the point it not that so much as the standing for a purpose. It was not any casual matter that Jehovah and two others came to Abraham and stood there; it was for a purpose. So the Lord was in the midst of Israel for a purpose, not yet acting but standing amongst them, waiting His time, for it is a question of time in these matters; everything has its time and the Lord is there ready for action.
LES The reference to Revelation 3 in the note is interesting too, showing the different encampments [p. 245] in that section, do you not think? And then it says, “Behold, I stand at the door and am knocking”, Revelation 3:20.
JT It is the attitude of the Lord outside the door of the believer, an active attitude, a gracious attitude, for it goes on, “If anyone hear my voice and open the door, I will come in unto him and sup with him, and he with me”, Revelation 3:20. So it is very touching that the position here in John’s gospel has reference really to the whole outlook that heaven had in mind in the incarnation, because John opens that up: “And the Word became flesh” John 1:14, that is the incarnation. It was an act of His own; He was standing, having become Man, for the evangelist John does not give us the actual birth of the Lord but the incarnation. A great deal opens up before the Lord, we may be sure, but first John is seen as witnessing to Him. In the next paragraph, commencing at verse 29, the Lord is acting or moving, and He is seen as coming to John: “On the morrow he sees Jesus coming to him”. And then John names the movement that he noticed, namely that it was a sacrificial movement. It was a Lamb he saw, and coming to one who would represent, as it were, the one who acted in Exodus 12 where the little lamb in the house was slain. The time of slaying would come. John the baptist of course would not do that, but at the same time the sacrificial action was seen, that the Lord was taking on sacrifice. It is important to keep that before us because we now have in mind to make application of the truth of walking and we are learning that the Lord’s walk implied sacrifice. The thought of sacrifice enters into all these meetings. Some people do not attend them, they keep to their own lives and miss a great deal because these are what may be called universal gatherings. We cannot afford to miss them and generally it involves sacrifice to attend them, but it is worth while.
[p. 246] RRT Is there an increase of intensity in what was observed in Jesus on the part of John? Initially he says, “In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know” John 1:26, He was not recognised. But then on the morrow he sees Jesus coming to him, and in the next incident it is, “looking at Jesus as he walked”. There would be increase in intensity of observation in regard to Him.
JT There was one anyway who was interested in the Lord. It is a great matter, as we are now applying the truth, if we are really interested, intensely interested in the Lord. What a movement there was in heaven in the incarnation! What a movement there was when the Lord ascended! He was received up, we are told, received up in glory. So it is that Luke says, “When the days of his receiving up were fulfilled” Luke 9:51. Heaven would be aglow with the thought of the time of the Lord’s return. As He ascended to heaven what a reception He received!
EGMcA Would the thought of “In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know” indicate the presentation of the truth, and the next two passages bring one into the good of knowing the Person?
JT John, I am sure, was not behind heaven in the way of interest, and certainly he was not behind heaven in the sense of humility. There is a thought of humility connected with heaven for Jehovah is spoken of as the One “who humbleth himself to look on the heavens and on the earth”, Psalm 113:6. The Lord expresses that attitude here below.
HB What would be the thought of the sandal in John the baptist’s mind? Is it in keeping with our subject?
JT I think it is. John was a wilderness man where sandals would be very needful, not shoes but sandals. Travelling is the idea, I suppose, but especially in the wilderness. John was to be in the deserts ([p. 247] not one desert but deserts) until the time of his showing to Israel, and of course the idea of the wilderness involves travelling.
Ques What connection would the standing of the Lord in John 20 have with this? Would this be the general position and John 20 the inside position, “in the midst”?
JT Quite so. It says He “came and stood” John 20:19, whereas in Luke it does not say He came but “he himself stood in their midst” Luke 24:36, as if He would be there where they were. He “came and stood”, shows more interest and dignity.
CCT Would the standing call to our minds One in authority?
JT What is more in mind is the attitude of taking up a position with a view to a certain purpose, just as in Genesis 18; Jehovah came and stood there, but He stood there with a purpose. As a matter of fact He was going to Sodom and took in Abraham’s position by the way, showing that it was really a friendly call, because Abraham was His friend. God came to him as His friend, but He came and stood first as if to come within Abraham’s vision, and Abraham knew what to do. Jehovah knew he knew what to do and he did not fall short.
GMacP It is a judicial matter here: “Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”.
JT Quite so. It is a sacrificial position involving what is judicial. The judgment of God entered into it, and John really suggests that because he is the baptiser. He baptised men; he administered death, that was his mission.
TS The fact that the sacrificial matter is brought forward in the religious setting is important; many priests and Levites were asking questions of John. All that would be instructive because in religious [p. 248] conditions there is no thought of sacrifice; in a general way it is shut out.
JT They were ready to make much of John religiously, sending from Jerusalem to enquire about him. They were Jerusalemites. The paragraph opens: “And this is the witness of John, when the Jews sent from Jerusalem priests and Levites that they might ask him, Thou, who art thou?” John 1:19. It was as much as to say, You are a great man and we believe you are, and we are ready to acknowledge you and give you a degree; all that you deserve we will give you.
HAG “He must increase, but I must decrease”, John 3:30. What a testimony!
JT John is not willing for any elevation at Jerusalem at all. They would fit him into their line of things, which was to give people titles: D.D. and LL.D. — there is a good list of them; but John was not willing for that at all.
LES Isaiah in speaking to the heart of Jerusalem says: “All flesh is grass” Isaiah 40:6. Does that link with this section?
JT That was John’s mission really.
RRT John indicates the right line. He says, You are occupied with me, but there is One greater than me standing in your very midst and you do not know Him.
JT But he knew Him, at least he had a right judgment and that is the point; and he was qualified to deal with these priests and Levites. They were not true priests and true Levites but religious people from Jerusalem, the centre of religion, ready to honour people on their own line, but John was not an applicant for that at all. He was not eligible for it, nor did he wish to be. So they say, “Thou, who art thou?”. That would stress the thing, that he was a great person in their minds. They felt themselves to be the people who were able to designate great persons. But “he acknowledged and denied not”, meaning that he was not taking on their suggestion of being a great person at an. He “acknowledged, I am not the Christ”, John 1:20. It was a sacrifice for the flesh; here was an opportunity to be a great man in the world, a great religious personage in the world, but John says, I am not going in for that at all. So it says further: “And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he says, I am not”, John 1:21. Elias was a great person, though if he had been alive then in Jerusalem he would not have been for he would have been the same as John in their minds. And then, “Art thou the prophet?”. That would mean ‘the Messiah’; the prophet is the promise in Deuteronomy. “And he answered, No. They said therefore to him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to those who sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness” John 1:21 - 23; you win find a record of me in the Old Testament if you search. He was a wilderness man, and what he called himself agreed with that. Then he added, “Make straight the path of the Lord”. The word ‘Lord’ here has no article; the translator says, “’Lord’ has no article here, which is irregular in Greek, but I do not doubt it is in place of the name ‘Jehovah’, as in other Gospels”. It is the same Person that was before Abraham’s tent door, so to speak, standing, waiting for some purpose. So John says, “Make straight the path of the Lord, as said Esaias the prophet. And they were sent from among the Pharisees. And they asked him and said to him, Why baptisest thou then, if thou art not the Christ, nor Elias, nor the prophet? John answered them saying, I baptise with water. In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know, he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to unloose”, John 1:23 - 27. That is his witness. The idea of witness [p. 250] is prominent with John the evangelist, and so that should be before us in what we are talking about.
FRA In chapter 3 John disappears in the greatness of Christ, when he says, “He must increase, but I must decrease”, John 3:30.
EGMcA Why does John leave out the baptising with the Holy Spirit and fire which is found in Luke?
JT “I baptise with water”, John 1:26 he says. He is minimising what he is doing; water is just a figure.
EGMcA Is he emphasising the Person rather than His work?
JT I would say that: “I baptise with water. In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know, he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to unloose”, John 1:26 - 27.
RRT What is involved in those words you just read: “He who comes after me”?
JT That means John was coming in historically before the Lord; but then he says, “He was before me”.
RRT In verse 30 he reiterates and enlarges on it.
JT It would mean that he discerned a divine Person. Here was Jehovah of the Old Testament; that is the truth.
AB It would be something like what was said in regard of Joseph: “They cried before him, Bow the knee!”, Genesis 41:43.
JT Quite so. Zaphnath-paaneah means ‘Sustainer of the life of the world’. Well, that was Jesus.
Ques Was it time to call attention to Christ in view of those following? In the second incident two disciples followed Jesus. Is it time for that now?
JT That is what we have come to. The Lord returns to that thought in John 8:12. He says, “I am the light of the world; he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life”, John 8:12. The followers come into life. The light of life [p. 251] is a great thought with John; thus it is said of the Lord in John 1:4, “In him was life, and the life was the light of men”, John 1:4. The follower gets that light, the light of life.
CJ What was there that John observed in the Lord’s walk that caused him to refer to Him as the Lamb?
JT That raises the question of naming, and how we are to name things and persons. We should learn to do that. God gave ability to Adam to name the creatures, not the things but the creatures, whereas Solomon named creatures and things. Now John here has the ability to put a name on the Lord Jesus as he sees Him coming to him. “On the morrow he sees Jesus coming to him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”. That is, this is the Person that he is naming, and he is naming Him “the Lamb”.
GMacP Is that in relation to the lamb in the household in Exodus 12?
JT Quite so; only this is not a diminutive thought, it is a great thought. It is not simply the sufferer, but the great thought of sacrifice.
FRA Is this the answer to Isaac’s question, “Where is the sheep”, Genesis 22:7?
JT Quite so; The Lamb is here, and in the type presently the Lamb came into view, caught in a thicket; but it was a ram.
CCT Did John perceive that it was a Man come down? We are able to name things because we are in touch with heaven.
JT God gives us things. How are we to be assembly men unless we are conversant with heaven and heavenly things? — not only heaven and Persons in heaven but things in heaven. So things are to be named and understood.
JMcK What is involved in the position of which John the evangelist speaks? “These things took place in Bethany, across the Jordan, where John was baptising”, John 1:28.
[p. 252] He indicates that the Lord came to John in that position. Was John still there?
JT That was the position. It is characteristic of John’s position that he was the baptiser. Scripture calls him John the baptist; it was his commission. But this is not the Bethany referred to later in the gospel; it is beyond the Jordan, showing that it was a distance from Jerusalem.
JMcK Would it suggest a place of exercise rather than rest?
JT Just so.
RRT Does John’s word to the Lord here cover quite a range when he calls attention to Him as “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”? He goes on to say, “A man comes after me”, involving His incarnation and, “Who takes a place before me, because he was before me”, involving His deity.
JT He is a man full of great thoughts. He is a wilderness man, dwelling in the deserts, where all that appeals to the flesh is broken down. The wilderness tends to break down the flesh, although it did not with Israel for the flesh remained in them and they lusted, but with John it was broken down.
FT Would you say John looked at things from God’s side, the Lamb of God moving to take away the sin of the world in its entirety, so that there might be a world pleasurable to God?
JT Just so. John brings God in. He brings God into the world, whereas Paul brings the saints into heaven. John keeps us down here with God, but Paul normally brings us up to where God is.
TS Do we have to be real men to be able to speak as John does?
JT God saw to it that he was kept in the deserts, where the flesh would be broken down in him so that he should be a vessel for God. He was girt with a leathern girdle and camel’s hair was his garment. He was fitted for the desert where there is nothing to minister to the flesh. That is the idea God is bringing before us.
FRA Is it at this point the Lord enters the sheepfold?
JT Quite so.
FRA He identifies Himself with the remnant.
JT Just so, that is the next thing. It is a question of the followers. John is not presented as a follower at all; he is a testimony by himself and the Lord recognises him. In the other gospels the Lord waits until John is cast into prison before He moves out in service; when He is presented as Man John is first; the Lord acted that way. But John the evangelist presents Him as exercising His own service before John the baptist is cast into prison, which is just in keeping with his line, for John cannot get to the Person quickly enough. He must get to the Person as soon as possible, like the writer of the Chronicles who, you will observe, reaches David in chapter 3. He is in a hurry, as it were, to get to David.
CCT Would you say that the voice of John is the opening of the door for the followers to come in?
JT That is the way it is put here. The paragraph from verse 29 is John’s meeting with Jesus and naming Him; he knows Him by His walk, so to speak, His manner, His gait. The idea is seen in Adam naming the creatures, but Adam was not called upon to name Jehovah; He was not a creature nor in a creature’s place on the earth, He was altogether apart. But the Lord Jesus came down and was a Man among men. The question then is, Did John know Him? He did. Others did not know Him, but john did. He says, “And I knew him not; but he who sent me to baptise with water, he said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God”.
[p. 254] He had indications by which he was to know the Person.
HB Is it in a way like Abraham? He speaks to a certain One of the three and calls Him Jehovah.
JT That is right. All the men of faith after Adam knew how to name things, especially Noah. He is the first one who discerned unclean creatures.
GMacP Is that what Paul had in mind when he said in 1 Timothy 3:16, “God has been manifested in flesh”? 1 Timothy 3:16.
JT Yes, and “justified in the Spirit”, meaning that the Spirit justified all He did, made it plain to us. It is a question of the Holy Spirit showing what the manifestation meant, and so here.
FT John is really introduced to the person here in a sense. Is that necessary for us in a way on account of the greatness of the Person? He says, “And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God”. He was no doubt familiar with the Lord as being His relative.
JT We cannot be sure. It says here, “And I knew him not; but he who sent me to baptise with water, he said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit”. He may have known the Lord Jesus but God did not leave it that way, He furnished John with knowledge. So I think we have to go by what God did, furnishing John with the knowledge he needed. He became acquainted with the Lord because God made him acquainted.
LES In spiritual matters we should know by way of spiritual observation, not natural, should we not?
JT That is what is suggested here. John is not governed by Jerusalem. We are not governed by geographical things or historical things but by spiritual [p. 255] things; we are to learn to know things by spiritual means, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 2:13, “communicating spiritual things by spiritual means”, 1 Corinthians 2:13.
LES This matter of naming things in the locality ought to be a concern to us; there should be some correspondence to the idea of the spirit of sacrifice worked out locally.
JT The brethren should all have the spirit of sacrifice, and that includes entertaining. The writer of the Hebrews points out that we are to be marked by entertaining.
LES Is it something like the Lord in Luke saying to Simon, “Seest thou this woman?”, Luke 7:44. There was something to be observed in that woman, and would not the Lord in that way draw attention to what is in each locality? If the Lord is seeking to add to a locality He would point out what is there substantially, something spiritual.
JT To make the thing very concrete, suppose there is someone in the locality who is to be gifted, something will happen to call the attention of the brethren to him. God will do that. It may be providentially, but it will happen, and then it is for the saints to tax their spiritual power to see that it is so. Is the brother really furnished to be a minister, a representative of God? The brethren will be on the look-out for him, and I am sure they will find the thing that God has put there.
RRT You mean we should be on the look-out for such a one in the way the Spirit is pleased to identify Himself with him? We have the greatness of the Lord in mind here, but applying it to a brother we would look for the evidence of the Spirit identifying Himself with him.
JT Just so. All who are in a locality who have these marks will be discerned. The brethren ought to be on the look-out for them.
Ques Does a man’s gift make room for him?
JT I think so.
EGMcA Is there the element of sacrifice in entertaining?
JT I think it goes with it when a man opens his house. The Lord opened Lydia’s heart and she opened her house to the brethren.
GMacP Is it the same thought as in Hebrews 13:1: “Let brotherly love abide. Be not forgetful of hospitality; for by it some have unawares entertained angels”? Hebrews 13:1.
JT Just so. That is the verse I was thinking of.
CCT Would you say a little more as to the opening of our houses?
JT It costs money to buy food and to house the saints, but what are we if we are not equal to that? We cannot expect to build up an assembly without that. It is seen frequently in the Scriptures as a mark of those who were really with God. Abraham was God’s friend, and he was visited by the angels.
JMcK Is the thought of manhood stressed here? John says, “A man comes after me”. It had been said of John, “There was a man sent from God, his name John”, John 1:6 but then in regard of the Lord it says, “Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him”, marking out the manhood of the Lord Jesus as distinctive in that way.
JT He is distinct as the Son of God, not yet alluded to as the Son of man here.
JMcK John speaks of Him as a Man.
JT Identifying Him with what is always carried forward in John, His deity. “A man comes after me who takes a place before me, because he was before me”: that is Deity. I only refer to that because John would build us up in the idea of the deity of Christ to make us worshippers.
LES Referring again to the sacrificial thought, it would enter into all our commitments, for example [p. 257] the matter of meetings and being ready to avail ourselves of any opportunity to be together.
JT Yes; it may be a wet night: put on a heavier coat, but anyway sacrifice to get to the meeting! One is not trying to accuse the brethren, far otherwise, but it is shameful that we are so afraid of a little drop of rain or flake of snow in getting to the meeting, because it is a question of Zion. The Old Testament saints were joyful as they entered Zion; it was a great matter with them. It is a question of overcoming, whatever the difficulties.
Ques In Luke 11 the man in bed with his children bears on this thought of entertaining, and the end of the passage runs on to the giving of the Holy Spirit to them that ask for Him. Is the giving of the Spirit just historical, or has it a moral thought that we might be able to have something for one who has come on a journey, as Abraham had for the visitors?
JT You mean we must have the Spirit or there will be nothing for the visitor? Just so.
To return to John 1, the second day mentioned brings out the walk of Jesus. The previous incident spoke of His coming to John, but He is not coming to John now; John is standing. The idea of standing is now passed on to John. The time of tarrying is over for Jesus and now He is walking and John admires the Lord walking. “And, looking at Jesus as he walked, he says, Behold the Lamb of God”. And then we are told that “the two disciples heard him speaking, and followed Jesus”. That is, John’s speaking must have greatly accentuated the idea of the walk of Jesus. The persons who heard him say, “Behold the Lamb of God”, followed after Him; they were affected. John is a model for us at this point, for we are to be affected by what is being presented to us, what ministry brings to us by the Spirit as to the attractiveness and glory of [p. 258] Jesus.
HB Would this be a rebuke to dumbness in the morning meeting?
JT You do not mean sisters, of course, because they are not supposed to speak, but the question is whether they are moved in their inward affections by what is presented to them. The brothers can give expression to their feelings in words, and if they do not you might say they are dumb priests.
CCT John sees as Man here the One who was in the form of God, but looking on Him as Jesus there is a following taking place.
JT Just so. One of the followers is John the evangelist himself. “The two disciples heard him speaking, and followed Jesus. But Jesus having turned, and seeing them following, says to them, What seek ye?”. This is a challenge. What is in your mind? What is affecting you? I believe this is all to bring out how we are being affected by the ministry of the Spirit of God.
FRA So those coming in from the outside would be attracted to the brethren first, as to John the baptist and those with him, but as the brethren are convened and the Lord comes into view then they would be attracted to the Lord personally.
JT I think what you are saying would have confirmation in Revelation 1 where the same John says, “I heard behind me a great voice”. Then he says further, “I turned back to see the voice” Revelation 1:12, not to hear it but to see it, meaning that he thought it was a Person, which of course it was. But what he saw first was the seven golden lamps, that is, he saw the saints first, but then the Lord Jesus was seen there in the midst of them, If I want to see Jesus I must be where the saints are because that is where He comes.
CCT Mary had to turn to see the Person in John 20.
JT He called her “Mary”; “and he calls his own sheep by name ... and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice”, John 10:3,4.
CCT I was thinking He takes her off the thought of His death and connects her with His own Person. We may be taken up with His death and not with His Person.
JT And do not forget the brethren because He is to be found there. He came where the disciples were. Normally that is where He is to be found.
Rem Does this find enlargement in 2 Corinthians 3 where we get the surpassing glory of the ministry of the new covenant? It finishes up with the words, “But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit” 2 Corinthians 3:18. It is “we all”.
JT Quite so. It is a collective shining out; just as in speaking of the cup the Lord says, “Drink ye all of it”, Matthew 26:27. It is not an individual matter. I do not know how christians get on without partaking of the Lord’s supper. Christianity is sustained by eating and drinking.
AD Does John give us a sense of this in his first epistle? He says, “That which we have seen and heard we report to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us”, 1 John 1:3. Is the matter of fellowship linked with walking?
JT You are stressing the idea of the ‘us’. Do you mean that the saints should have fellowship with the apostles? Quite so. There is another point in the same chapter: “God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not practise the truth. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another”, 1 John 1:5 - 7 not simply with the apostles but with one another, “and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin”.
[p. 260] That is, the blood keeps us right in relation to one another. The cleansing is there to keep us right.
JMcK The way in which they address the Lord as Teacher would indicate the inclination of their mind and heart to learn more of the Lord in that way.
JT That is good. It is a teaching time; we need teaching, every one of us, and especially those brought up in man’s organisations, human organisations. You will never get church truth in human organisations; hence the necessity of teaching. That is why John comes in at the last. The Lord says of him, “If I will that he abide until I come, what is that to thee?” John 21:22. I believe the Lord had him in reserve all the time for what is needed now; what is needed is teaching. They called Him ‘Teacher’ here: “And they said to him, Rabbi (which, being interpreted, signifies Teacher)”.
JMcK That is very helpful. If I come to the Lord in that spirit there is a further invitation from the Lord: “Come and see”.
RRT It speaks in another place of those who followed Him for the loaves and fishes. It is a very much deeper reason here — “where abidest thou?”.
JT Undoubtedly these two were allowed to visit; it is as if they qualified for it. I believe they belonged to the apostolic set. It is a new order of things that is in mind, so Peter comes into view in this section. It is said that one of them was Andrew and the other’s name is not given. “Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, was one of the two who heard this from John and followed him. He first finds his own brother Simon, and says to him, We have found the Messias (which being interpreted is Christ). And he led him to Jesus. Jesus looking at him said, Thou art Simon, the son of Jonas; thou shalt be called Cephas (which interpreted is stone)”.
[p. 261] Now we come to the last Adam, the new order of humanity really. The Lord is putting a name on it, not on the cattle but on the persons, for it is a time of naming the persons and every one of us comes into that, for each has his name.
TS In John speaking and the two disciples following is it like the setting forward of the camp; and then would the encampment be where they abode that day?
JT Just so; it is a sort of mature order which is soon to take form in the assembly at Pentecost.
TS Is it like a levitical touch that John the baptist gives?
JT I am sure that is right.
FRA What is the difference between the position here and in Luke where He is said to have nowhere to lay His head? Here they saw where He dwelt.
JT Well, we have already spoken of Capernaum being His dwelling place, according to Matthew. The Lord had some place there. He had a home; where it was we are not told but there must have been something of the kind, and they stayed there a certain number of hours. It was to bring out that He had a dwelling place. In Matthew the word ‘house’ is used; the Lord waited to be in the house to take up the matter of sonship with Peter for that belongs to the house. So here the dwelling place of the Lord is where teaching is to be found, because they call Him Teacher; the teaching is in the assembly really.
CCT As we sit here under this ministry, the Lord would ask each of our hearts, “What seek ye?”. We would find the place of abode.
JT “They went therefore, and saw where he abode”. Well, He dwells in the assembly now though corporeally He dwells in heaven, as Acts 3 says: “Whom heaven indeed must receive till the times of the restoring of all things” Acts 3:21.
[p. 262] But He is known here by the Spirit in the assembly now.
GMacP John says the Spirit of God abode upon Him. He is the only evangelist who says that. On that line the thought of abiding and the thought of teaching would bring out the kind of material of which the assembly is composed.
EGMcA “He says to them, Come and see. They went therefore, and saw where he abode”. That would really mean that the effect of where He abode would be seen in their walk, and would teach them to walk in the same way.
JT That they should follow in His steps.
EGMcA Peter makes much of what John should do: “Lord, and what of this man?” John 21:21 — but the Lord’s answer to Peter is, “Follow thou me”, John 21:22. That would be occupation with the Person, would it not?
JT We are likely to make too much of the brethren, and if we do they will fail us. The Lord is looking out for us and He will give us our work.
LES Do we get the thought in 127:1?
“Lord, we do not ask the question,
Where abidest Thou?
Well we know where Thou art dwelling,
Well we know it now”.
JT Well, that is the use of language in the hymn, indicating that we profess to know where He dwells; it is in the Father’s bosom. We have to look into that. Is it so?
HAG Do you think we have in this portion of Scripture what we find in Joshua 5:13 - 15? “And it came to pass when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, there stood a man before him with his sword drawn in his hand. And Joshua went to him, and said to him: Art thou for us, or for our enemies? And he said, No; for as captain of the army of Jehovah am I now come. Then Joshua fell upon his face to the earth, and worshipped, and said to him, What saith my lord unto his servant? And the captain of Jehovah’s army said to Joshua, Loose thy sandal from off thy foot: for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so”, Joshua 5:[p. 263] 13 - 15.
He was in the presence of the Man who stood.
JT Do you mean that John’s gospel is ‘God with us’? Matthew is that too but it is more emphasised in John; the Deity is there.
HB We see how the Spirit helps in matters of interpretation in this section.
JT That is another thing, the need for interpreters. I suppose in these last days we who cannot read Greek depend upon translators. We cannot read the original in which the Spirit of God wrote, we are dependent upon the translators and the translations. Thank God for the one in our hands here because it is a very accurate one. We can safely use it publicly in a Bible reading like this. If we did not have it we should have to use the Authorised Version which would be very uncertain, and we should be making mistakes very often. For instance, we should call a man ‘Rabbi’, we should make much of a clergyman, whereas such are not deserving of anything at all. It is not a man with a reputation for earthly education, a degree, that counts, but what the man is. Jesus was “the Teacher”, that is what He was — a Teacher come from God. That is what Nicodemus said: “We know that thou art come a teacher from God”, John 3:2. These men discerned that and called Him “Teacher”. We have to learn from this good translation, although the Authorised Version helps us a little, but not very much.
EGMcA Would you say that in John He teaches by His walk as well as by His [p. 264] words?
JT I would say that. It has already been noted how Ephraim was taught to walk by Jehovah. This gospel teaches us to walk by the walk of Jesus Himself.
EGMcA “Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”. You said, I believe, that that was not a diminutive thought of the Lamb but a great thought; then you spoke of the incarnation. Did you mean that it called for the incarnation to set forth the walk that was so pleasing to God?
JT Just so. It was seen in this kind of Man. Some people say the Lord got His humanity from His mother but that is an entire mistake; He got it from God; God was His Father.
EGMcA That gives a great impression of the incarnation.
JT Yes, it does. That Person intended to use John for this purpose because Jesus loved him, as we are told. He was one to be relied upon and was able to write this wonderful gospel. It does not say that Jesus loved Matthew or any of the others, although no doubt that was true, but Jesus loved John.
Ques Is there any suggestion in the interpretation of the disciple’s name here?
JT Do you mean Cephas? It is to show that a structure is in mind. Of course there was a structure in Israel, too, but it was only a type, whereas the structure in the counsels of God that we are speaking of now includes all the saints. It is not a stone building as in Israel, nor a building made by human hands, but “whose house are we”, Hebrews 3:6. The saints form it. I would be ashamed of myself if I could not say I belong to the assembly. Cephas was a stone, meaning a part of, or an element in, or a person that could be used in the assembly.
GMacP Is this what the apostle Peter has in mind when he speaks of the living stones, a spiritual [p. 265] house?
JT Just so; but as noted, what is said of the matter in Matthew is a question of the material for the building whereas this is the person himself, meaning that the assembly is formed of persons. It is not exactly the idea of material but of persons.
Rem You were saying yesterday that Moses and Aaron were men of influence. Would you say the holy influence of this Man is seen in a special way in John?
JT You mean the Lord. Quite so. His influence pervades the universe. As it says, “He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens, that he might fill all things; and he has given some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints”, Ephesians 4:10,11. He has sent the teachers, apostles and prophets down from beyond the heavens.
FRA At the end of the gospel His garment is divided into four parts. The idea of four means that it involves the whole moral universe.
JT The Roman Catholics claim to have everything, the garments which Christ wore here on earth including the vest which was woven throughout in one piece without a seam. The soldiers parted them among them. I think the allusion would be to the fact that the Roman Catholics claim everything: they claim Christ, they claim the Bible, they claim to be the assembly too, and that they only are the assembly; but it is all false. The assembly is a spiritual matter.
RRT Would it indicate here that when we come to Paul he is leading on to something that is to be a fixed matter in our souls? Their attention here is called to the Lord; there is the following and abiding with Him, and then this one becomes a stone, — the matter becomes fixed and [p. 266] abiding.
JT Quite so. You can see in the idea of the Lord’s standing that He has all this in His mind; He is ready for work. When the time comes here is a man whom He names, meaning that He has in mind the thought of assembly formation — those who form the assembly.
FT That would be a spiritual name. Do we not see the thing evolving? Later it says, “Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal”, John 6:68.
JT Just so. Cephas is the same word as Peter, of course, only in another language. It suggests that the structure is in mind.
EGMcA Is it going ahead in your subject to ask what you had in mind in chapter 5?
JT I think we will have to leave that. It seems we should have another reading in John on this subject. We shall find it pursued in John 5 because there the man who is raised up not only walks but is able to carry his bed. He is a man who is able to do things and carry things in walking. And then the Lord Himself is seen walking on the water, that is another thing. And then in the last chapter we have something further about walking.