WALKING (5)
[p. 267] WALKING (5)
John 5:5 - 15; John 6:16 - 31; John 12:35,36
JT This fifth chapter records one of the signs in John’s gospel and it is read because it makes so much of walking. The Lord said to the man, “Arise, take up thy couch and walk. And immediately the man became well, and took up his couch and walked”. It was walking with a load, but it brought out the character of the power that was used, especially as the man had been there so long and had had such an experience of disappointment; for he said, “Sir, I have not a man, in order, when the water has been troubled, to cast me into the pool; but while I am coming another descends before me” (verse 7). The man had a remarkable experience in that way, and no doubt the Lord will help us to apply the incident, for there are many such now in a spiritual sense. The passage would indicate that the entrances, the five porches, imply various circumstances whence men have come to be healed. No doubt there is an allusion to the current conditions of christendom in these last days and the evidence of the applied resources of mercy. It was a house of mercy, or supposed to be that, as the word Bethesda indicates. But it comes very short, in the idea of mercy, of God’s merciful services to men, what there is for men now. The Lord coming in and speaking and acting would indicate what is available even now in a spiritual way for the relief of men in those circumstances, whatever they may be connected with.
FT Is there something significant in the thought of ‘the Man’? John speaks of the Man that comes after him and was preferred before him. This man at the pool says he has not a man. The Man is needed, is He not?
JT Quite so. There were men there but they were all cripples, no doubt. The angel was there too,
[p. 268] but very sparingly. He came down according to what is recorded: “For an angel descended at a certain season in the pool and troubled the water. Whoever therefore first went in after the troubling of the water became well, whatever disease he laboured under” John 5:4. There was a suggestion of divine mercy, and divine intervention, but in a very limited way.
FT Would that suggest that in spite of the confusion that exists in christendom things are still within divine control? God operates sovereignly, as seen in the angel coming down.
JT Oh yes, there is something of that kind in christendom, even in eastern Europe, and now perhaps we shall see it in a little way in Russia; but certainly in the body of christendom this sort of thing exists. But I hardly think it exists in heathendom or judaism or mohammedanism. God is nevertheless very favourable and is acting in a certain area.
RRT Would it represent what the religious system in the hands of man had come to? It is distinctly mentioned that “there is in Jerusalem, at the sheepgate, a pool” John 5:2. The gate is connected with Jerusalem.
JT Quite so. John would imply that he knew about it; he had first-hand knowledge and was a true witness of the conditions. It is well, I suppose, if we are at all occupied in service, that we should know of conditions as they are and where they are, so as to be intelligent in what we are doing.
RRT I was wondering whether the sheepgate would link with what we were speaking of as to the Lamb of God? It was the proper place, in that sense, for the Lord to appear in His mercy.
JT It was, according to what He said of Himself in chapter 10. You would expect to find a sheep there and in truth there was one.
[p. 269] Ques Why does the Lord single this man out and ask him a question?
JT Well, it is His way. It is one of the instances in which we may learn levitical ways. We were touching on that as to those who are in the position of levites, that we should be acquainted with the state of christendom geographically and climatically and in other conditions, observing whether God has been accustomed to act for man in certain sections, whether there have been any of these movements and whether there are any places on the earth that are particularly favoured. We ought to know all these things if we are at all in the service of God, and ought to put ourselves in touch with universal conditions where the Spirit of God has any scope at all, because if we have assembly ears we shall hear about things that happen even if we are not there. We do not want to miss them. The Lord was governed by His own principles, of course, but it was right that He should enquire about this man although He knew; for we are told, “Jesus seeing this man lying there, and knowing that he was in that state now a great length of time” (verse 6). These are things to be noted if we are at all in the service.
Rem I thought this case was very encouraging for the present time in that God is not moving in mass conversions but here and there He is signalising those whom He would have and asking them the question, What are you doing about it?
JT Some of us who are in the service have more opportunity than others who do not move about, and therefore we do know conditions as they are; what conditions prevail in South America or Australia or New Zealand or this country or Europe. It is a great advantage if we are in the service. It may be of interest to others, but it is more than that to the servant because these are the conditions in which he has to work if there are to [p. 270] be results.
LES I was thinking of the conditions in Nehemiah’s day. There is a link with Nehemiah in the condition here in regard to the sheepgate. Eliashib the high priest built it, and evidently Nehemiah had ears to take into account what was happening although in circumstances of captivity.
JT You remember how Nehemiah arrived at Jerusalem and went out by night and certain persons with him to view the conditions of Jerusalem, and that led of course to viewing the wall and the gates. So that undoubtedly the names applied to the gates in Nehemiah’s day were intended to come down to the Lord’s day; these gates were not set up in the Lord’s day; they had been set up long before. The sheepgate was an important gate, and the Lord made reference to the sheep.
EGMcA Was it not the only gate in the wall in Nehemiah’s day that had no lock on it?
JT Some make a great deal of the fact that there were not any locks or bars on it. The question is whether if there were locks and bars they might not be shut against the sheep; there is just that possibility. But Eliashib did not turn out too well, although he was the high priest. These are things we have to notice because we are in the last days and things need a lot of repair. We need to become conversant with facts.
LES It shows how the Lord is able to fill out every position, does it not? He takes up the position that is set out in Nehemiah and fills it out.
JT Quite so.
EGMcA Would you say that the sheepgate was made available for this man so that he might enter into the flock in chapter 10, though he did not walk that way?
JT That is another thing to note. He did not turn out too well, so that the Lord said prophetically as to him when He found him afterward in the temple, “Behold, thou art become well: sin no more, that something worse do not happen to thee” (verse 14). He did not turn out too well, he was not reliable like the man in John 9. This man is to illustrate how certain persons today are available where mercy is supposed to be, right near to the work where the help is, and they get help, for the man was helped. The point in the Lord’s mind was illustrated in that the Lord said, “Arise, take up thy couch and walk”, and the man did it; he not only took up the couch, but he walked. He did what the Lord said. But what did he do afterwards? We see what time brings out, for time has a great deal to do with the work of God; it has a great effect, aside from any other influences. What time brought out in this man was that he was not reliable; he brought the Lord into trouble.
HB He went away to the Jews. He was still walking, but in another direction.
JT Yes, it says he went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus. He did not stay where the Lord was; he did not become a disciple at all, because a disciple should follow. He did not do that, and he got the Lord into trouble. Distance from the Lord makes us trouble-makers.
LES Would there be a link here too with John 8 in regard to the woman? The Lord says the same words to her, “Go, and sin no more” Then He says, “I am the light of the world; he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life”, John 8:11,12.
JT So He did not have confidence in her either. We cannot tell just what the sequel was in her case, but evidently the Lord did not have confidence in her, whereas He kept His eye on the man in John 9 and when He found him He put the question to him to bring out where he was: “Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God?” John 9:35.
FT [p. 272] This man went into the wrong place; he went back into the temple.
JT Quite so; he should not have expected to find the Lord there. But did he want to find Him? It does not seem so.
RRT Would this man represent the lack of the very thing we began with in this series of meetings? He had from the Lord now the power to walk but he had not learned how to walk; he had not come into the teaching of it. Like Ephraim, he needed to be taught how to walk.
JT Just so.
Ques Do you think the matter of definiteness enters into it, so that if we have been helped with regard to moving out of our position we should be clear of all?
JT Just so. I believe that is the lesson to learn from this incident. It is a sign, and the Lord builds truth on it. He had performed this sign but the subject of it did not gain by it; he failed the Lord in that sense, and many are like that today. We get the blessing that is available but we do not go any further; and we become trouble-makers as surely as possible if we get away. The man went away and became a trouble-maker. He brought the Lord into trouble.
FRA Do we get an illustration here of the Lord following up the initial work? We very often do not follow up the work in souls in that way.
JT The Lord followed the man up, even going into the temple, because it was an important sign as others were. The incident of the man in Acts 3 for example, was an important sign bearing on the dispensation at the moment. And so this case was the same, but the man failed the Lord and brought persecution on Him, which is a very sorrowful thing, that the Lord may benefit us and yet we bring trouble [p. 273] on Him.
LES The point seems to be that there was no spiritual reaction in the man’s soul to the Lord’s touch. He did not even know it was Jesus.
JT Just so. You would think he would have known. Think of the Man that did so much for him! The facts are mentioned to show how much he was indebted to the Lord, and yet he failed Him.
AD Would you say a little more as to what you have in mind as to the character of the power here?
JT It is power connected with His word. The facts are that the man said, “Sir, I have not a man, in order, when the water has been troubled, to cast me into the pool; but while I am coming another descends before me. Jesus says to him, Arise, take up thy couch and walk”. It is a matter of the Lord saying the word. It is not any act of His hand, but His word, and that is the point with us today. There is much made of physical things in the service, but the point is the word, the power of the word of Christ and what it can do.
Ques It says, “After these things Jesus finds him in the temple”. Would that imply He was seeking him?
JT It shows that the Lord followed up His work. When he heard the man was cast out in John 9 He found him and said, “Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God?”, John 9:35 showing He was watching over the subject of His work. But then we might get out of hand. After being benefited by the Lord we get out of hand and become trouble-makers. It is pretty nearly certain we shall become trouble-makers if we get out of hand. It is like the staff of Moses; when it got out of his hand it became a serpent.
EGMcA Would you say that this man availed himself of the power now given him and walked in the wrong way? He took up a right position without any reality. If he had been in the temple he should have had the reality of [p. 274] the thing.
JT The Lord said, as we have already read, “Arise, take up thy couch and walk”. It does not say He told him to go to his house. I suppose the Lord did with him according to what He knew of him sovereignly. But the power was there nevertheless, and the word of Christ retains its power, and it is good for me. If this man missed it, I do not want to miss it. We want to get the good of what the Lord says.
FRA What is the application of the man carrying his couch? It is an unusual thing for a man to carry his couch.
JT I think the point would be that there is a burden. Peter says to Aeneas in Acts 9, “Rise up, and make thy couch for thyself” Acts 9:34. It is one thing to make your own bed on which you lie, but it is another to show that you can carry it, meaning that you can carry your circumstances. The thing that carried you, you now carry. That is the idea here: the Lord has set the man up in superiority to his circumstances, but he fails Him nevertheless. The Lord says to the man in Mark 2, “Child, thy sins are forgiven thee” Mark 2:5. And then He tells him to take up his couch and go to his house. There is more in that; it is more interesting to see what happened in the house. This man’s house is not in mind. There is very little made about the house now, but it is important that the gospel that we preach should bring in the house; not only that the person is saved, but the person’s house or family. The Lord is stressing that now: “Thou and thy house”, Acts 16:31.
TS Do you think that this man never came into the land? I was thinking that he was just thirty-eight years in this state, and the thirty-eight years would be like the duration of the journey of the children of Israel in the wilderness.
JT They were in wilderness circumstances and these circumstances would be the same. Being an [p. 275] invalid in these conditions for thirty-eight years would bring about a certain formation in the man that was not good. He was not a house man, he was not a family man, and the house and family must be kept in mind because God operates in that connection.
FT Is the idea of stagnation seen here? The thought of the pool and the man lying there would suggest stagnation.
JT Quite so. There is a great deal of stagnation spiritually around.
RRT I was wondering whether this would raise a question with us as to why we tell things, what the object is; and a question as to the ones to whom we tell them. This man went away and told the Jews. It was evidently not a right testimony in regard to Christ. Would it raise that exercise with us?
JT Yes. There are certain incidents where the Lord enjoins that things are not to be told. The two blind men in Matthew 9 were enjoined by the Lord not to publish their cure. It would seem as if the witness must be real, so as to impart reality to the persons who hear, and this man was not that.
RRT So that the result is, as you said previously, that he really brought the Lord into difficulty. We bring the Lord and the brethren into difficulty if things are not right with us.
HB I was wondering if it would be something like Doeg who went and told Saul about David.
JT Quite so. The next walking we read about indicates that the Lord is above circumstances. He is above the agitation of the waters, meaning that this miracle and its result did not disconcert the Lord. The truth goes on; the testimony goes on. In chapter 6 it says, “And it had already become dark, and Jesus had not come to them, and the sea was agitated by a strong wind blowing. Having rowed then about twenty-five or thirty stadia, they see Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the ship; and they were frightened. But he says to them, It is I: be not afraid” (verses 17 - 20).
[p. 276] I think this next miracle or sign shows among other things that the Lord is not really deterred or affected by results. There was trouble, but the Lord was above that and He would teach us to be above it and not to be disconcerted by what might be disappointments, because there are such.
LES Would this link up with Luke 13 where it says, “The same hour certain Pharisees came up, saying to him, Get out, and go hence, for Herod is desirous to kill thee. And he said to them, Go, tell that fox, Behold, I cast out demons and accomplish cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I am perfected; but I must needs walk today and tomorrow and the day following” Luke 13:31 - 33.
JT Very good. There were foxes in the Lord’s path as there would be in ours, but the Lord sends a message. He does not go near him; He never says anything to Herod, but He goes on. He says, “I cast out demons and accomplish cures today and to-morrow, and the third day I am perfected; but I must needs walk today and to-morrow and the day following, for it must not be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem”, Luke 13:32,33. I think that illustrates what we have here. The Lord is not deterred by the troubled sea. Note that it is not simply water but the sea. The sea is a wide area, and it was troubled, yet the Lord was walking on it. There is a certain elasticity in the measurement of the distance, “about twenty-five or thirty stadia”, but the Lord goes on and comes in, as it were, on the situation in which the saints are. The Lord was in it Himself in chapter 5, and they were not with Him, but here they are in the trouble, on the sea; the sea is troubled: “whose waters cast up mire and dirt”, Isaiah 57:20. The Lord comes into all that and is seen walking above the [p. 277] circumstances. It fits with the allusion to Herod who would try to deter the Lord as He was carrying on His work. Herod was a politician. We are often troubled by politicians; certainly the draftees are affected by politicians, as they are now in Canada, very much. Herod would make trouble, and foxes are worse than politicians; it is very difficult to follow up a fox because he doubles back on you. But the Lord goes on, that is the thing to see. The huntsmen know the traits of the fox and how to catch him in spite of his doubling back. The Lord knew how to deal with the fox.
LES Would that help our young brothers to pursue the course in spite of the difficulties that confront them?
JT That is the thing that has been in the exercises of some in this Canadian trouble. It is a real trouble and the brethren have allowed themselves to be troubled by it; the brethren have not been of one mind, they have not taken a straight course. It is a question of a good conscience before God. Watch that! Keep a good conscience.
EGMcA This expression, “It is I”, would indicate the kind of Man referred to in Luke 13 who was not turned aside by any threat. He said, “It is I”; He did not have to mention His Name. They knew that kind of Man. He was the kind of Man to look to in this case.
JT We can rely on Him; He inspires confidence. If we can only get the Lord into all these matters it will settle us and we can take a straight course.
LES Would “today and to-morrow and the third day” Luke 13:33 involve different encampments in relation to what might be transpiring? We must not think that we have the whole matter every day, but we must be alert as to every day.
JT Just so. So that in each sign in John the course is pursued; they are not isolated items. The [p. 278] signs in John stand in relation to one another, and the Lord pursues a straight course in relation to them: He knew what He was going to do, that is the point, He knows what He is going to do; he is not going to allow the foxes or the storms to hinder the work going on, so that He walks; He walks in any circumstances. He does not teach the disciples to walk in this gospel; Matthew does that. Matthew contemplates the early days of christianity in which we have the assembly. Christianity is built up on the principles of the assembly; it is not only that the things are done, but how they are done; and the book of Acts carries on the thought, showing how the things are done and who will do them. So that is the beginning of christianity. But John in contemplating things omits the teaching of walking on the water, and omits how the ass’s colt is found. The Lord finds the colt Himself. In these last days the Lord has to do so much that He should not have to do at all, as in Nehemiah’s day; you are impressed with what Nehemiah had to do. Subordinates ought to have done it, but Nehemiah had to do it because there were not others available. So it is today, that servants have to do so much that they would not have had to do in earlier days. Paul tells the Corinthians he did not have to do a certain thing, but he did it nevertheless; like the Lord Himself he was ready to do anything. So it is now, the levites must be ready to do anything, because men are short. There is a shortage of certain skilled men. There are a good many coming on now, but at the same time there is a great want of skill in what is done.
T.S. Why is that?
JT It is just the circumstances. We are in the last days, you know, when “difficult times shall be there”, 2 Timothy 3:1. We are speaking now particularly of the want of skilled men, and how Nehemiah had so much to do. He was the governor but he had to do many [p. 279] other things for the people that ought to have been done by themselves, so that he says in one place that he took counsel with himself, as if he did not have anybody else to take counsel with.
LES So that the care of all the assemblies should really have been the care of the elders.
JT Quite so. That was brought out in Acts 20, where Paul exhorted them to take care of the flock.
JMcK There is an allusion in verse 17 to what you have been saying about the dispensation: “And it had already become dark, and Jesus had not come to them”. Is that the present moment?
JT Quite so. What darkening conditions there are, apostate conditions! Think of Germany as it is today, once the cradle of the Reformation, where light shone so resplendently! It is darkened by apostasy and the whole of Europe is darkened.
FRA We have an illustration of skill on the part of the Lord in knowing just where each disciple is, each one of His own. Knowing where souls are ought to be a point with us.
JT Quite so.
EGMcA It says in Mark, “And seeing them labouring in rowing” Mark 6:48 but in John it says, “They see Jesus” (verse 19). Is that because they were acquainted with the one who introduced Himself as “It is I”?
JT I suppose it is what John represents himself. He is the writer of this gospel, and he said in a dark time, “It is the Lord”, John 21:7. That is a great matter. If we are near to Him we shall know Him when we see Him. There is someone like that who can recognise Him in all these times.
NB Was it right for the disciples to make this move? They move eventually without the Lord at the end of the gospel; should they have remained with Him [p. 280] here?
JT Let us see what the facts are. “Jesus therefore knowing that they were going to come and seize him, that they might make him king, departed again to the mountain himself alone. But when evening was come, his disciples went down to the sea, and having gone on board ship, they went over the sea to Capernaum. And it had already become dark”, John 6:15 - 17. Let us see how this incident compares with Matthew 14. Matthew records the same incident and if you will just look at chapter 14 you will get some further facts as to the disciples. It says in verse 22, “And immediately he compelled the disciples to go on board ship, and to go on before him to the other side, until he should have dismissed the crowds”, Matthew 14:22. Well now, that has to be read with this, that they went into the ship under the Lord’s compulsion. The Lord had something in that, because He was going to carry this matter out and show what walking on the water meant. Therefore we get much more about it in Matthew, because Matthew is the assembly gospel.
NB That helps.
EGMcA Would you say that administration in Matthew leads to the same end as in John here? They arrived at the land where they should be; that is the end in view, is it not?
JT Quite so; and the rowing is important: “Having rowed then about twenty-five or thirty stadia” (verse 19). They had experienced the rowing; it is not walking but rowing. There are very few who can row. Nearly everyone can walk, but rowing is a skilled matter and they were able to do that. We are told how far they went, showing that they could get along a certain length. The Lord knew that; He knew what they could do, but then He was going to teach them in the rowing and on the sea what He could do in these circumstances; and He would teach us, because we are in these circumstances and we have to learn how the Lord will come in to us in them. We might [p. 281] struggle along and say, Anyway the sea is not very large and we shall get to the port; and doubtless they would have reached the port; but it says, “Having rowed then about twenty-five or thirty stadia, they see Jesus walking on the sea and coming near the ship; and they were frightened. But he says to them, It is I: be not afraid. They were willing therefore to receive him into the ship”. That is a point to notice, that they were willing to receive Him into the ship. The Lord comes into view as a Benefactor to them, and then it says, “And immediately the ship was at the land to which they went”.
NB Why was Capernaum their objective? Was it not the place where the Lord did not do many mighty works because of their unbelief?
JT We have already had before us that Capernaum according to Matthew was the place to which the Lord went from Nazareth. That is, He was unselfish in His selection of a residence. The brethren generally go to a hillside or a seaside or wherever there is physical benefit in selecting a house, but the Lord went to Capernaum. Apparently He had a house there and that would make it all the more interesting, that He was going to that point.
FT Does it not suggest the present dispensation, the Lord going up to the mountain suggesting His being on high and then our being down here amid all the circumstances the enemy brings about?
JT It is not only that He intercedes; His intercession does not need His coming down. He is on high to intercede for us, but besides interceding He comes down to where we are. That is just the point. The Lord says, “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”, John 14:18. Not only does He intercede for us, but He comes to us.
FT Is this in line with John’s ministry? He takes up that which is going through, and the Lord is going [p. 282] to help His people to go through in spite of all circumstances.
JT Quite so.
Ques How does this work in connection with the crowd? It says they were coming to make Him King.
JT The Lord is not going to let them make Him King. The point they had in mind was that He would be a Benefactor as King. It was not that they loved Him, but that He would do them good. This chapter brings out what He could do for them. What a thing it would be if we had a Man in this country that could feed millions of people! The Lord could have fed millions if He wished to, as He did thousands.
Ques Is this position a result of the Lord refusing to let them make Him King?
JT Quite so. He is not selfish; He is not operating for royalty or a crown, or for greatness in this world. He has His own which are in the world, that is the point. He comes to them, and He intercedes for them above. That promise of the Lord is what we are working out now, perhaps more effectively than they did fifty years ago: “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”, John 14:18. Not only does He intercede for us today, but He comes to us.
RRT In order to get the gain of it it is necessary that we be found with willing spirits; there must be willingness to receive Him into the ship.
JT The Lord looks for that.
Ques Does the land immediately reached suggest settled conditions?
JT It is a fixed place, it is terra firma. At times we reach positions of security and firmness; when the Lord is there we get to land. So with Paul and his ship, it was a long, troublesome voyage of very great disappointment and loss, but they got to the land, some of them on pieces of the ship, it says, but they got to the land. So Jonah got to the land.
[p. 283] It is a question of getting to the fixed position in the service of God. At the present time it is only temporary because it is the millennium where we get fixedness permanently. We shall get fixedness permanently in the millennium and in heaven.
Ques I was thinking of conditions which come up like unionism which stir us up to reach this firm ground. Do you think that is right?
JT Just so.
RRT What is in your mind about fixedness permanently in the millennium?
JT The Lord has control of it. He has not got control of the earth now in the sense of being Ruler, but God “has set a day in which he is going to judge the habitable earth in righteousness by the man whom he has appointed”, Acts 17:31. Judging there is not judging in the sense of judicial dispositions, but judging in the sense of ruling. When He is in that position, He whose right it is, things will be fixed. Capernaum is Capernaum, and the cities will be known and have a fixed place, you can designate them. We who are heavenly, who will come out to rule five cities or ten cities, will know where they are and it will be our business to rule them. But not now, we are not ruling yet. It is our testimony that we are not ruling the world yet; we are praying for the rulers, but we are subject. We are aliens; we are strangers and sojourners on the earth. That is what I meant by fixedness in the millennium; now it is in heaven.
RRT How are we to understand anything being permanent in the millennium? It comes to an end, does it not?
JT Well, it does come to an end, but not in the sense of destruction. It comes to an end in the sense of merging, for millennial conditions will merge into wholly spiritual conditions. There will be judgment, according to Revelation 20, but not to dislocate the [p. 284] position, save that it is a merging into another condition; that is what I understand. Flesh and blood do not inherit the kingdom of God, so that the millennium must cease in some sense, but the work of God is there and the inhabitants will merge into some further relation. That is a matter which would take a great deal of explaining, or perhaps we cannot explain it. It is not much explained; it is just left. But the position is fixed. It is God’s territory. I am just contrasting the present time with the future time; the millennium will be a fixed state of things, the five or ten cities are known and certain rulers of them come down from heaven.
Ques I would like to ask in regard to the disciples’ experiencing this strong wind blowing. A little later in the chapter we find others going across the water and they do not experience this trouble. Would you tell us a little about how this strong wind blowing is affecting the disciples?
JT That would be the devil.
Ques. Locally?
JT It was the sea of Tiberias of course. The epistle to the Ephesians explains it, I think, that the prince of the power of the air was active, and it was against the disciples. How the devil stirs up things even now to disturb the meetings and the service of God!
EGMcA Is there the same satanic attempt here to turn back the disciples as there was by Herod in Luke 13 to turn back the Lord? But the disciples kept on and the Lord came to them. There is nothing said here about the Lord speaking to the winds and the waves, nor about “What sort of man is this?”, Matthew 8:27. It is a matter of being acquainted with the Lord and arriving at the point they wanted to arrive at in spite of their difficulties. It was a difficult situation, but they finally arrived at the end. He [p. 285] overcomes any difficulties brought in by the enemy, but He has the end in view.
JT What answers to that is the land. There is no disturbance on the land.
RRT Essentially, the strong wind blowing was really contrary to the Lord’s command. As you were saying, in Matthew He commanded them to go down to the ship, so that really the opposition was directed against the commandment of the Lord.
JT It was His matter and the devil was against it. The Lord could have quieted the elements, but there was no necessity for it here because the land was there.
TS Just what is meant in the presentation of Himself: “It is I”?
JT It is no other. If He said that to any of us one million years from now, we would know Him. There is only One who could say that in this sense. What a comfort it is that there is such a One as that! If all the world was to go out from under your feet the Lord would say, “It is I”. He is the Maker of it and of the winds and everything.
EGMcA You would hardly say that if you went up to a stranger’s house. It would require acquaintance, would it not?
JT Very beautiful! There was only One who could say that and they would understand.
FRA It is something like Rebecca’s asking who the man was. The servant said, “That is my master!” Genesis 24:65 and she sprang off the camel.
JT She understood. The camels would take her to that man; they were a provision. Isaac, typical of the Lord, was looking for the camels; that is what he was looking for. The type is perfect in that sense.
FT Would the land suggest the peaceful quiet conditions that should exist in the hearts of the saints as allowing the Lord to come into these [p. 286] circumstances?
JT That is just it. We are in known circumstances of certainty and we cannot be disturbed there. The Lord is there: “For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them”, Matthew 18:20 So that if we are willing to bring the Lord into the matter, the agitation by this strong wind need not necessarily go on for months and years. It will be immediately settled, will it not?
JT That is very good; bring the Lord in. The solution of everything is that.
EGMcA I think your remark just now is most helpful. You said the Lord was looking at them. We sometimes look at the circumstances and forget that the Lord is looking at us.
Ques Peter says in Matthew, “Command me to come to thee upon the waters” Matthew 14:28. Why is that omitted here?
JT John is not dealing with the assembly as such, but more with individuals, the persons who form the assembly, however many or few. It is the persons, living persons; the idea of life is developed in John more than in Matthew.
FT You have something definite in mind in regard to John 12.
JT Well, one thing to be said now is that chapter 12 is the turn in the testimony. That is, chapter 12 is the sequel to what we get from chapter 9 to the beginning of chapter 11, these chapters forming a group. We have in verse 36 of chapter 12, “While ye have the light, believe in the light, that ye may become sons of light. Jesus said these things, and going away hid himself from them”. He disappears out of view but He sets us up as sons of light; as believers in the light we become sons of light. We can be left, and that is another principle in John. He says in chapter 11, “Loose him and let him go” John 11:44. Who is let go? The son of the resurrection!
[p. 287] He is a son of light and you can trust him. You can leave him, as it were. The Lord can afford to leave him, knowing that things will go well with him. If there are more such it will go all the better. That is what we get in John 12. “Jesus therefore, six days before the passover, came to Bethany, where was the dead man Lazarus, whom Jesus raised from among the dead. There therefore they made him a supper, and Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those at table with him. Mary therefore, having taken a pound of ointment of pure nard of great price, anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair, and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment” John 12:1 - 3. There is a disturber here, that is Judas, but things go on nevertheless. Judas intervened, as it is said, “One of his disciples therefore, Judas son of Simon, Iscariote, who was about to deliver him up, says, Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor? But he said this, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief and had the bag, and carried what was put into it” John 12:4 - 6. He was another fox, a disturber; but he does not interfere after all, because the Lord was there to settle everything, and the settlement was, “Suffer her to have kept this for the day of my preparation for burial; for ye have the poor always with you, but me ye have not always” John 12:7,8. That is settled. He could have done much more to Judas but He did not; He did not need to. That was all that was needed for the moment; Judas was silenced, put out of the way, as it were. The Lord was then free to open up wonderful things in this chapter and among them the two verses we read: “Jesus therefore said to them, Yet a little while is the light amongst you. Walk while ye have the light, that darkness may not overtake you. And he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes” (verse 35). I think the brethren will see [p. 288] at once that there is a word for us as to light and darkness, as to whether we are walking in the light or in darkness. God is in the light; God is light, and our fellowship is in that: “But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another”, 1 John 1:7. That is where the fellowship lies, where the sons of light are. And our point would be at the present moment that if we are not settled, if we are not sure, we are either cloudy or dark. Being on the land would mean certainty. While we remain questioners we are more or less in the dark, whereas the Lord says in verse 36, “While ye have the light, believe in the light, that ye may become sons of light”. That is to say, the darkness passes. John says in his epistle, “The darkness is passing”, 1 John 2:8. It has not passed yet; it is passing; it passes in the soul of the person who is believing. He may not be too sure but he is on the way to it and as soon as he is surely on the way he is a vessel of light, a son of light. We must not stop halfway but go the whole way to become a son of light; the word is not ‘children’ but ‘sons’. So that we have so to speak a cluster of stars in this chapter, sons of light, for the company in Bethany is really a group of luminaries. Judas would disturb that; Satan would disturb that, but it went on. The Lord saw to it by His word that it did go on. That is a point we should finish with, I am sure. Are we sons of light or not? Are we sure or not? If we are not sure, why not? Scripture is to make us sons of light.
FT It is noticeable that it says, “That ye may become”. Does that suggest an end to be arrived at through a process, so that we may become characteristically that?
JT It is the end of a process, as you say. It is not merely luminaries or stars, it is persons in that relation with God, sons of light; persons who [p. 289] are luminaries.
FRA With the stars there is no speech nor language, they just shine; so in this incident in the beginning of chapter 12 no one says a word.
JT That is good, because Lazarus is never said to have said anything, but he is a luminary. Is that what you mean?
FRA Yes.
TS While some persons may think that a word is necessary and often speak about wanting a word from the Lord to tell them what to do, yet do you not think that in what is presented here there is light in God’s operations, and we come to understand what to do from that?
JT That is pretty much what we get from the book of Acts. Luke is the writer; it is his second epistle or treatise, and what you will notice is that it conveys not exactly what the disciples are told to do, but what they do. They know what to do, hence they are the directors, and there is the apostles’ teaching and fellowship. There must be the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and breaking of bread (of course, that is not the apostles’, that belongs to us and all the saints), and prayers; they belong to us too. Hence we know what to do; we have our prayer meetings and our meetings for the breaking of bread, and we know what to say. Therefore Paul says, “I speak as to intelligent persons: do ye judge what I say”, 1 Corinthians 10:15. We ought to know how to judge things as to what they really are. That is what this passage means in relation to sons of light.
LES Is not this one of the passages that helps us to understand how faith operates? “Believe in the light”.
Ques Would these sons of light correspond to the lights that are spoken of in Genesis 1? It says they are for signs and seasons and days and years. Would that help us in regard to the encampments which we have been speaking [p. 290] of?
JT As God sets man up he is wonderfully provided for, with these luminaries over his head. So that it says He made the stars also; the two greater lights and the stars also. They also are beneficial, and “star differs from star in glory”, 1 Corinthians 15:41. But what we have here is sons, that is a moral idea; a son represents the relation in which we are with God because we walk in the light.
Ques In Acts 22 it says, “But they that were with me beheld the light, and were filled with fear, but heard not the voice of him that was speaking to me” Acts 22:9.
JT You are referring now to Saul’s conversion? Yes, there were those there who did not get all that Paul got. I think he was stressing what a time it was, speaking of it himself in Acts 22. Those with him did not get all that he got; he got all there was. So with the brethren here today, some of us know what we are saying, others know that what they hear is right, but there may be some here who do not get all there is. We do not want to be like that. We want to take all there is available and not stop short of the idea of being a son of light. And it is not simply that I am a son of light, but I belong to the “sons of light”.
Ques It says, “Light is sown for the righteous”, Psalm 97:11.
JT It is a remarkable thing that it is sown. That is a word that fits in with Matthew: “But having heard that John was delivered up, he departed into Galilee: and having left Nazareth, he went and dwelt at Capernaum, which is on the seaside in the borders of Zabulon and Nepthalim, that that might be fulfilled which was spoken through Esaias the prophet, saying, Land of Zabulon and land of Nepthalim, way of the sea beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations: — the people sitting in darkness has seen a great light, and to those sitting in the country and shadow of death, to them has light sprung up” Matthew 4:12 - 16.
It does not say ‘sown down’, but ‘sprung up’, meaning that it is not Christ come down but sprung up. It is not Christ come down, and heaven on earth, but light radiating around as from an Object on earth instead of from heaven. That is Matthew. What a great thing it was! It was light springing up, a remarkable fact!
HAG I thought in regard to “Light is sown for the righteous” Psalm 97:11 that we might trifle with the light and it become darkness to us.
JT Yes; and if it is sown for the righteous, the righteous will get the benefit of it. The sowing is by some other hand. God may have used your forefathers for that purpose, or your immediate father, but it comes up in this time for you.
HAG If the light in you becomes darkness, how great is that darkness!
FT The idea is a crop; is it not?
JT It is an agricultural figure instead of an architectural one; light springs up like a seed.
AD John speaks in his epistle of one who hates his brother being in darkness and not knowing where he goes. Sons of light would walk together in love.
JT Quite so. So that the apostle refers to “an old commandment, which ye have had from the beginning”, 1 John 2:7. That is what the Lord spoke, as we see in this gospel and in Matthew. The new commandment is a present thing: “Again, I write a new commandment to you, which thing is true in him and in you”. And then he adds, “because the darkness is passing and the true light already shines”, 1 John 2:8. I suppose this would refer to any who are coming into the truth, laying themselves open for it and ready to receive it; the darkness is passing in them. We cannot say it is passing in the governments of the world, although some beneficial changes [p. 292] are taking place now, but we cannot say the darkness is passing actually among the nations. When this war is over they will revert pretty much to what they were, whereas the darkness is passing in the christians that are left here. In the millennium all will have passed and the Sun of righteousness will have arisen with healing in His wings, whereas now it is just passing in people who believe. The sons of light are persons in whom the darkness is passing.
EGMcA Is there a responsibility in this that leads to being sons of light? “Walk while ye have the light”, and “While ye have the light, believe”. You have a definiteness in your walk and the result is sons of light.
JT That is the idea. And what we said earlier should be kept in mind, that in verse 36 the Lord is able to go away and leave the sons of light; they are left down here.
EGMcA He seems to say that those of us who have experienced this and taken it on are that characteristically. That is not assumption, is it?
JT I am sure it is not. You just thank God for what you are. Why should you not?
RRT Does believing in the light really involve recognition of the Person, as you were connecting it with Him? The great light and the light sprung up would involve believing on the Person?
JT It would. The Lord was the light Himself. It needed not only that persons should be there physically in His presence but it needed faith. That is the point that is made in the gospel; the blessing comes to you through faith; faith comes through hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
FT The Lord is going away and leaving the light here.
JT It is the position in the Acts. He went up and the light was here.