READINGS IN JOHN'S GOSPEL (2)
READINGS IN JOHN’S GOSPEL (2)
JT You will notice the movements of the Lord here. It says, “as he passed on”, as if to indicate that it is deliberate from His own side; and then it speaks of what He saw. It is not simply that His attention is called to it but it says, “He saw a man blind from birth”. The disciples enquire as to this, assuming that there must be some cause for the blindness either in the man himself or in his parents. That is to say they conclude that what happens here in relation to the government of God must be causative, whereas God may act sovereignly in these cases; and in this case it is clearly to bring out what God can do for man in these conditions that are found in the race. As we consider the extent of the race, how numerous it is and what happenings there are! The Lord is indicating here that He can act sovereignly without regard to the parents’ history. It is a question of what God can do, what He is entitled to do if He wishes to. It is a question of the sovereign works of God which are beneficial, for it is said the Lord went about doing good for God was with Him.
JTJr Would the works of God be a subjective idea?
JT I suppose that is what we are bound to conclude because it is the subject really of this chapter. This matter is great enough in the divine mind to develop into the subject of the chapter. The Spirit of God tells us certain things that happened and what moral effect the happenings had on the man. The moral effect is that he becomes a believer, not like the woman in the previous chapter; it is not said that she became a believer, but he became a believer for the Lord said to him, “Dost thou believe on the Son of God?”. It was in the Lord’s mind that this should be brought out. So the question now is [p. 324] as to believing, whether we believe what we are saying this afternoon, or whether unbelief is something that may mark ourselves. Does what is said bring out what is of God and faith? Are we developing faith?
SMcC Is it suggestive that in the body of this great gospel we should have two incidents that are arranged for a certain purpose in the divine mind — in this chapter in view of the works of God and in chapter 11 in view of the glory of God? Is there something significant in the selection of incidents with these things in view?
JT Just so. After this chapter we have the question of the sheep, the outcome of faith being to make one a sheep, constituting a believer a sheep. And then in chapter 11 we have the glory: the sickness was not unto death but for the glory of God. Is that what you have in mind?
SMcC Exactly. Certain things were operative in view of divine thoughts being worked out, not just occurring in any haphazard way.
JT You see spiritual regularity throughout the book. It is remarkable to see the subjects brought out as they are and how they are placed spiritually.
RWS In the first reading we were engaged with the women and the basic way the Lord met the sin question in being lifted up. Are we now to free our minds of the sin question entirely and see what God is doing apart from it?
JT Just so. It is said, “Neither has this man sinned nor his parents, but that the works of God should be manifested in him”. Not simply the work of God, as is frequently stated, but the works of God; the whole subject of the works of God enters into the matter. The works of God are greater than the creation, as having a moral bearing. Jesus is the One accomplishing the works of God, He is [p. 325] the Operator.
CAM I wanted to ask whether there would be a parallel with the first chapter of the Bible, occupied as we were with light in the first reading, that now there would be these works following, such as a man able to see.
JT Just so. It is a question of God doing such works, not what He did in creation. We can hardly say much about that because it is so far back. John says, “In the beginning was the Word”; John 1:1 but then subsequent to that (I mean subsequent as to moral sequence), “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”, Genesis 1:1. We have something definite that He did; but before that, “In the beginning was the Word”. It is “was”, without saying what He did. Now here we have works; it is a question of God still but we have works. The man did not sin nor his parents, “but that the works of God should be manifested”; that is, not simply that they should be done but manifested. The thing should be seen.
CT Is there urgency attached to this? It says, “that the works of God should be manifested in him. I must work the works of him that has sent me while it is day”.
JT Just so, because it is daytime. “The night is coming, when no one can work”. God works in the day and therefore it is said, “God called the light Day”. “God said, Let there be light ... And God called the light Day”, Genesis 1:3,5. That is to say, the first day it was a question of light and things were to happen in the light, not in the dark.
JLP Would the passage in Philippians 2 fit in here, “For it is God who works in you both the willing and the working according to his good pleasure”? Philippians 2:13. Mr. Darby has a note in regard to “God who works” which says, ‘internal operation of power, though seen in results’.
JT Well, quite so. I would say that this actual incident can be classified in that sense. Of course [p. 326] this man was not a christian yet; this was in the Lord’s own lifetime here, but Philippians refers to what is happening since the Spirit of God has come down. The Lord speaks of this time as greater than when He was here: “And he shall do greater than these, because I go to the Father”, John 14:12. That is what is going on now in this dispensation; it is a question of what God is doing through the Spirit and it has in mind what is to work out in the assembly. Here it is what the Lord does Himself to manifest the works of God. I am trying to stress the idea of manifestation, what a place it has in the divine operations, that is to say, what God’s works are. As to the creation — we cannot say it was the beginning as to sequence, because before that, “In the beginning was the Word”, John 1:1. The next movement is more the actual creation according to the facts of the case and the details given. The facts are that “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”; Genesis 1:1 but here it is a question of the moral character of things and that it is to be manifested; as if God had peculiar pleasure in what is to be done now; it is the peculiar time for the works of God.
FS Does this blind man form a suitable background for the works of God in view of the Lord presenting Himself as the light of the world?
JT Well, it is man that is the subject of the works. We have to wait until the sixth day of the days in the first of Genesis before we get man. The works of God in man is the idea here.
SJH It says in Genesis 2: “But a mist went up from the earth, and moistened the whole surface of the ground”, Genesis 2:6. In John 9 the Holy Spirit had not come yet; it was the Lord, and He spat on the ground. Is there some suggestion in that?
JT The mist arose, as if something had to happen; it does not say that it rained. The idea of rain, of course, came in especially at the flood, but the [p. 327] mist was something that you might say was more subjective. It arose from the ground, and it was needed for the divine operations in all that happened before the flood.
SJH Chapter 8 would show the dryness of the ground; there was no mist in evidence. It was so dry that the Lord wrote on the ground. But here in a limited way He moistens it and accomplishes something. Would that be right? He spits upon the ground; He has come into Manhood; He has brought something in.
JT The Lord spits, just so, it is a remarkable thing; it is what comes out of the Lord Himself. It is a remarkable background for the way He is going to work, how He is going to operate. He made clay of the spittle. Now there was no rain on the earth before the flood as far as we know, but there was a mist that rose up and of course that would make way for the creation of man. The Lord created man out of the ground and evidently the formation was there before the breath was there. He “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and Man became a living soul”, Genesis 2:7. But all that was in the time of the mist, and the mist would refer to something subjective to make the ground suitable for the divine operations.
AB It says that it moistened the whole surface of the ground. Is there something in that?
JT That is what I was thinking; it moistened the earth, made it suitable for divine operations. But then there is something here that corresponds. There is no mist, because the Lord here Himself makes the spittle. It is a product, as it were, humbly speaking, reverently speaking, of the Lord’s own humanity; He had taken on that condition. He took on the condition of humanity so that He could make the spittle. Now this is a very particular thing that we are dealing with because it refers to the Lord’s incarnation,
[p. 328] but it is a divine Person nevertheless. The spittle is from a divine Person and therefore the work is extraordinary.
Ques Is that indicated in John 10 where He says, “I am come that they might have life, and might have it abundantly”? John 10:10.
JT Just so.
AR So that it is called ‘mud’, but then it is also called ‘ointment’ in this verse.
JT Yes, it is dignified. You can see that the Lord Himself, His own deity, entered into it.
JRH Is this the same as what Paul speaks of as the working of life in the saints? “Death works in us, but life in you”, 2 Corinthians 4:12.
JT Well, if there is death, but there is no death implied here. It is a living situation. It is what comes out of the Lord Himself and therefore it is a question of His deity but His deity in incarnation. So that you have material that can be made into spittle and then can be dignified as called ointment. The cure of this man is through an anointing, a very dignified word.
AR Why does He tell him to go to the pool of Siloam and wash?
JT To put him under responsibility to do things, to do what he is told, which is a very important thing. We all should learn to do things; we are not here to be idle. He is here to be doing things, and so you get throughout this gospel and, in fact, throughout all the gospels, the idea of man being put to work. As someone was saying to me yesterday, everybody should be doing something; even if he is defective it is wise for him to be doing something and, of course, doing what is right, not doing evil but doing what is right.
AR It is remarkable that in Genesis God tells Adam to till the ground.
JT [p. 329] Quite so, He gave him work to do. He told him to till the ground, gave him something to do.
AB Paul says, “If any man does not like to work, neither let him eat”. 2 Thessalonians 3:10.
JT Exactly, “If any man does not like to work”; there are those who do not. It is a wholesome thing that it is obligatory on every one of us to be doing something.
AP Do you regard the action of the Lord in making the spittle a deeper matter than His writing on the ground in the previous chapter?
JT It is a deeper matter, I should think, because it brings about something positive. The man becomes a christian; I mean to say he becomes a believer, and that is a great thing. If a man’s work is not a product of faith, what is it? There is nothing good in it, really. It says, “Whatever is not of faith is sin” Romans 14:23; therefore the importance of doing things rightly, doing them well. It is said of one, “She hath done what she could”. Mark 14:8.
SP In chapter 3, verse 35, it says, “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand” John 3:35; does “in his hand” suggest that the Lord shows how things are to be done with exactness in all these incidents in John?
JT I would say that fully. Things are in His hand. So it is said of the Lord that He was weary with His journey, which is a most touching thing; He was wearied with His journey but still He went on working. He did not take a holiday, as it were, He proceeds to work, and therefore we have the Samaritan woman, a believer and a worker; a real worker in the service of God because men believed through her.
ABP It says here, “I must work the works of him that has sent me”. There is a compulsion, “I must work”.
JT Just so, “I must work”.
AR Does that enter into this man’s mission? Siloam means ‘Sent’.
JT It is that he is under orders, I think. “Here am I”, said Isaiah; “Here am I; send me”, Isaiah 6:8 and He sent him immediately. We are all under orders and that is the point in John. I believe in chapter 13 the Lord stresses the idea of being sent.
RD Would this spittle be somewhat in line with the breath in the end of the gospel where “he breathed into them”? John 20:22.
JT It might be so regarded, only that in the type used, ‘breath’ is from the lungs and we have to couple it with Acts 2; we have to connect it with the mighty and powerful breathing there. They heard a powerful breathing, as if the lungs of God, so to speak, speaking reverently, were active to bring about something. John 20 links on with that. It is a question of breathing, and the Lord breathed into them the breath of life, very like the action in Genesis 1 when God breathed into Adam. The Lord breathed into them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit” John 20:22; something is to be received and then they are to do something consequent on that, that is: “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained”, John 20:23. So that in the breathing we have something from the Lord, it may be in view of what is judicial, or it may be positive in the sense of blessing. But now we are dealing with spittle which is a somewhat different thought, that the Lord uses something of Himself that brings about the ointment and this ointment is used to heal the man. But he has got to do something; he has to go to Siloam, and he does what he is told.
CHH Is it not important that all these characters that come out in John’s writings are put in movement? You were speaking this morning of the astronomical idea, as to planets abiding in the influence of the sun, that there is no such thing as a planet [p. 331] being static; they are all moving. The Lord is moving and everything He touches moves.
JT Very good. You can see, too, how the works of God enter into that, how that God Himself is moving. He is behind all these things. It is a most touching thing that the blessed lungs of God, so to speak, are active; and then the Lord breathes into the disciples, which is the same idea. Then in this chapter we have what belonged to the Lord Jesus, so to speak, in anointing spittle; this shows that although we are to be very reverential and holy in all that we say, yet these things are brought before us to instruct us, because it is a time of instruction, of getting to know things. The apostle says, “I speak as to intelligent persons”, 1 Corinthians 10:15 those who know.
BW Would the idea of moving in obedience be followed by the reward of having sight? That is, he was obedient, and we are told that “if anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him recognise the things that I write to you, that it is the Lord’s commandment”. 1 Corinthians 14:37. This man was rewarded in receiving his sight. Would it be that way for us if we move in obedience to the truth?
JT Just so. It is just what we have been saying, that God has pleasure in us, pleasure in His children, in those who move in His will. All these incidents are to bring that out. God has pleasure in this man as moving to Siloam.
JRH In these references as to the spittle and the breath of the Lord had you something before you as to the Lord imparting something of Himself to the persons?
JT Yes, it is so different from what must be said as to the creation in the first of Genesis. On the fifth day He created the fish and the fowl; on the fourth day He created the sun, moon and stars: “And God made the two great lights ... and the stars” Genesis 1:16; the word is not ‘created’ but ‘made’, although He does use the word ‘created’ too. On the third day it was a question of the vegetables and the like, and on the second day it was the expanse, but it is not said that it was very good. God is the speaker, but it is not said that it was good. Still it is the expanse, something that God could utilise in His operational ways. On the first day it was light; so that is how the matter stands.
JRH I was wondering if what the apostle Paul says in Corinthians about the life of Jesus being manifested in our mortal flesh would have something to do with this? It speaks about the works of God being manifested in this man.
JT Well, there is something in that. The works of Jesus are manifest in our mortal flesh; it is a question of the usability of flesh in a moral sense, not in a physical sense. Our flesh can be used of God for something, perhaps to show how Romans 8 works out the question of flesh, whether we are speaking of it morally or physically. “For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, good does not dwell”, Romans 7:18. Paul says; but then the flesh may be used in a good sense too.
JRH It is a marvellous thing that what is of God should be manifested in man.
Ques The man said, “It is I”, John 9:9. Is that the work of God appearing?
JT That is the next thing. It is a question now of who is going to speak about him and criticise the whole matter, because criticism brings out the truth very often. The Lord says, “I must work the works of him that has sent me while it is day”, showing what He is doing, giving us a lead; and then, “The night is coming, when no one can work”. So that it is a question now of what the Lord is doing, He is ready to do things so that God should have pleasure in them. He goes on, “As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world” — again we [p. 333] have the assertion that He is the light of the world, that is, as long as He is in it. It is not something that flows from heaven exactly, but as long as He is in it He is the light of it. “Having said these things, he spat on the ground and made mud of the spittle, and put the mud, as ointment, on his eyes. And he said to him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, which is interpreted, Sent. He went therefore and washed, and came seeing”. What a great change there is in the man! But then the Lord is working; it is His own work, and all this enters into it before the man sees.
JTJr The Lord Jesus is working on the principle of being sent, as He says, “I must work the works of him that has sent me”. The principle is that He is sent.
JT Hence if we are undertaking to do anything in the name of the Lord, whatever we do, it is said, “Do all things in the name of the Lord Jesus”, Colossians 3:17. Whatever we do is to be done in that way and therefore there is divine pleasure in it. That is what enters into the chapter I believe; it is the pleasure of God in the workmanship of Christ.
ABP Is He leading up to the thought expressed in the end of the book, “As the Father sent me forth, I also send you”, John 20:21 that they are persons who are trustworthy, that can be sent?
JT Well, they were constituted that. They showed themselves to be constituted suitable to be used of the Lord.
ABP I thought possibly this incident had that in mind. The Lord stresses the fact that He has been sent, and He sent this man. I thought He might be developing material that would be trustworthy, that could be sent.
JT So that He says, “As the Father sent me forth, I also send you”, John 20:21 But then, having said that, He breathed into them and said, “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them”; John 20:23.
[p. 334] that is to say, He is setting them to work to remit sins and to retain sins if necessary. He is constituting them suitable for assembly service, whether it be positive for good, or for disciplinary work. We have to do disciplinary work, that is, to retain sins if necessary.
AR Should those who are asked to preach or give an address have a sense in their souls that they are sent?
JT I would think so, but why do you say that?
AR You were asked here, were you not?
JT Yes, I was invited to be at these meetings and I had therefore to decide whether I had any commission in coming here, because the idea is commission. It is not simply that a brother is taking on something of himself, but is he commissioned? The Lord had a commission; He was sent. The word ‘sent’ means a commission, that you are given something to do. I must decide whether I have anything to convey to the brethren; it is not a mere matter of the meeting, it is a question of whether there is any commission in those who are carrying on the service, whether we can say God is in it, whether the works of God are being manifested in it.
CT Do we see great intelligence in this man after he does wash? He is able to answer them and says, “A man called Jesus made mud”. Is it the intelligence of a man who is now growing?
JT Well, that is the next thing, the remarkable intelligence that is brought about by conversation and questioning. His intelligence is brought out by questioning; he is not volunteering. “The neighbours therefore, and those who used to see him before, that he was a beggar, said, Is not this he that was sitting and begging? Some said, It is he; others said, No, but he is like him: he said, It is I”. That is to say, he is identifying himself as the man in question. Somebody is in question for good or for [p. 335] evil and he is identifying himself as the man. He is an out-and-out transparent man; he is ready to answer the questions and he is favourable to the Lord in answering. He has the truth in his heart, he is a believer. He is consciously benefiting by the service of the Lord Jesus.
Ques Would that be like the end of Romans 7, “I myself”, the man identifying himself?
JT Well, he is identifying himself there; it is the inner reaction of the word: “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of this body of death?”, Romans 7:24.
L Is the first thing that comes to light what the neighbours make out of it?
JT Well, that is the thing. What we want to see now is what comes out of an honest brother, a man in cross-questioning and criticism, because criticism is very common among us and in a certain sense it is wholesome. We want to see what comes out of it and how a man stands his ground and witnesses to Christ.
CHH In verse 11 he says, “I saw”, but in verse 15 he says, “I see”, and then again in verse 25 he says, “I see”. Would that mean that it was not only historical but continuous in the process?
JT Just so. I think he is considering the neighbours too. We have to consider the questioners, who they are, whether they are morally right, whether they are morally entitled to be questioners. There is honest questioning so that the truth comes out here as a result. The first question is that of the neighbours, and then the Pharisees question; but when the Pharisees question he says, “I see”. When the neighbours question he says, “I saw”, it is merely a historical matter; but when the Pharisees question it is moral, they are not reliable, just as in the beginning of chapter 8. There the Pharisees question to get something to accuse the Lord of. So it is here [p. 336] with the Pharisees, as always, the questioning is not reliable, it is not transparent. We have to decide whether questioning is really transparent or whether it is dishonest.
CHH I was only noticing that it is put in the present tense in verse 7, “and came seeing”, and then in reply he says, “I saw”. Then to the Pharisees he says, “I see”.
JT “Came seeing” is a historical fact, and then he says, “I saw”, meaning that he is honest about it, he has actually gone through it experimentally. Finally the Pharisees want to know about it and he says, “I see”, not that he “came seeing”, as if he said, I see now, I can show that I am cured; you can see that I am cured, I can read a book to show it. He is an honest man in his confession.
CHH Is it anything like what Peter said to the Lord, “Thou knowest all things”, John 21:17 as though there was something in him that could be seen?
JT Quite so, you are referring to the last chapter of John. Peter challenges the question really; the Lord allows it. Peter has to say to the Lord, You can see that I am honest about it, that I love you. That is the idea, the Lord could see that Peter loved Him.
RWS The work of God can thus be tested in any environment and be found to be the work of God. Is not this man therefore a model to us? It is not hard among ourselves as meeting here to act like christians and speak of these things; but at home or at the office or the shop or school — it is in these circumstances where the reality of the work of God is brought out.
JT That is very good. The outside confession is very important in persons seeking fellowship, as we use the word. How can you tell about them? We have had persons we were not sure about. Sometimes you cannot be sure whether a person has the [p. 337] Spirit, for instance, or there are other things in which we are tested. This chapter therefore is of great importance as to persons seeking fellowship, whether we can be sure that they are really christians, that they have the Spirit of God and are constituted fit for the assembly. That is what enters into this chapter.
JK The man is able to say what the Lord has done and then he is also able to say what he himself has done, so that in that way he brings forward the fact that he has moved in obedience, does he not? “A man called Jesus made mud and anointed mine eyes, and said to me, Go to Siloam and wash: and having gone and washed, I saw”.
JT Very good.
JRH Do you attach any moral significance to the washing?
JT Only that it is a matter of carrying out the Lord’s wish.
JRH It is a matter of the obedience of faith.
JT That is right, that is just what it is. Then we have to pursue the subject as we have it in verse 13. “They bring him who was before blind to the Pharisees. Now it was sabbath when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes. The Pharisees therefore also again asked him how he received his sight. And he said to them, He put mud upon mine eyes, and I washed, and I see. Some of the Pharisees therefore said, This man is not of God, for he does not keep the sabbath. Others said, How can a sinful man perform such signs? And there was a division among them. They say therefore again to the blind man, What dost thou say of him, that he has opened thine eyes? And he said, He is a prophet. The Jews therefore did not believe concerning him that he was blind and had received sight, until they had called the parents of him that had received sight. And they asked them saying, This is your son, of whom ye say that he was born blind: how then does he now see? His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; but how he now sees we do not know, or who has opened his eyes we do not know. He is of age: ask him; he will speak concerning himself. His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone confessed him to be the Christ, he should be excommunicated from the synagogue. On this account his parents said, He is of age: ask him”.
[p. 338] Now what we have already said is plainly stated in this passage, and it brings out the idea of the man’s wisdom in answering the questions of the Pharisees. He says, “I see”; as if he would say, It is not simply that a certain thing happened to me historically, but you can see that it is in me too; you can see that my eyes are capable of enabling me to see. So that all that is confirmed in the passage up to verse 23 and then we have in verse 24, “They called therefore a second time the man who had been blind, and said to him, Give glory to God: we know that this man is sinful. He answered therefore, If he is sinful I know not. One thing I know, that, being blind before, now I see. And they said to him again, What did he do to thee? how opened he thine eyes? He answered them, I told you already and ye did not hear: why do ye desire to hear again? do ye also wish to become his disciples?”. Well now, what strikes me is what a product this man is becoming, what a suitable person for the service of God and the companionship of the Lord’s people! He is a man to be relied upon as suitable for fellowship, and ready to go on to anything the Lord proposes to him.
Rem He is bearing testimony now.
JT Quite so, he is bearing testimony and the result shows that he is suffering for it and ready to suffer for [p. 339] it.
CT In bearing testimony is there the thought of reproach attached to it? “They railed at him”.
JT That is what comes out. “They railed at him”; that is suffering. They said to him, “Thou art his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses”. What a boast that is, an empty boast! How easily that sort of thing comes out in the service of the Lord in our local meetings! So it goes on in verse 29, “We know that God spoke to Moses; but as to this man, we know not whence he is. The man answered and said to them, Now in this is a wonderful thing, that ye do not know whence he is, and he has opened mine eyes”. So that we are now in the presence of the Lord Jesus, and this man is true to the truth he has received so far. He is going to be a full disciple of the Lord Jesus, a full believer.
SMcC In chapter 8 we had the thought of the truth setting free and the Son making free. Do we have both things in this man, the truth as you are now referring to it and the knowledge of it setting him free so that he is aggressive even in the presence of his adversaries, and then comes under the bands of the Son?
JT Do you not think the man is in the making, you might say? We have so many different angles by which to view the persons in whom God is working. This man is in the making and what is happening to him is the Outcome of examination, of criticism and suffering and he is true to the light he has. Therefore he is one we can commit ourselves to fully, and we are very much in need of men like this who stand by the truth as they have experienced it. Finally the Lord challenges him. He is cast out before that, that is, a brother is ready to go as far as that, ready to be cast out, to be excommunicated as it were from the fellowship he is connected with; he is ready for that, and then the Lord finds him.
AB The parents more than once say, “We do not know”, whereas the man keeps to the point, “One thing I know”. He is holding things rightly, so that development comes in relative to that “one thing”, does it not?
JF What would be the significance of the man saying, “We know”, in verse 31?
JT That is, you might say, the ‘we’ of experience, the dignity of knowledge by experience. There is such a thing as the outcome of experience. He uses the word ‘we’ not ‘I’ because it is common; that is to say, what he says is an axiom. “The man answered and said to them, Now in this is a wonderful thing, that ye do not know whence he is, and he has opened mine eyes”. There is a man really affected, like the little maid in Naaman’s house, a man affected by the truth. He goes on, “But we know that God does not hear sinners” (that is the ‘we know’ that I am enlarging on), “but if anyone be God-fearing and do his will”, (that is the point of the chapter) “him he hears. Since time was, it has not been heard that anyone opened the eyes of one born blind. If this man were not of God he would be able to do nothing. They answered and said to him, Thou hast been wholly born in sins, and thou teachest us? And they cast him out”. That is, he is a sufferer for the truth. You might say he is a martyr for the truth. That “they cast him out” was a very serious thing among the Jews. Now the next thing is how the Lord is governed by this action, and how fellowship takes place, how he is brought into the flock of chapter 10.
HB They use the word ‘thou’ to him quite frequently. Is he acquiring a distinctive personality through all this?
JWW Does the consistency of his testimony involve the admission. “Thou art his disciple”?
[p. 341] Then the Lord Jesus taking him on says, “Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God?”.
JT The Lord is taking him on as sincere, which of course He Himself was, infinitely so. He is taking him on, and what the Lord must have felt about it! The man himself is affected by the truth; he is like the girl in Naaman’s house; he was affected by the truth. He uses the words, “a wonderful thing”. But then the Lord is waiting for all that, He waits for the man to be cast out. He waits for us to suffer, to be martyred; though there are very few martyrs for the truth, but the Lord is waiting for them. If there is anyone ready to be a martyr, He is waiting for you, to dignify you, to glorify you; that is the next thing. “Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him, he said to him, Thou, ...” The ‘thou’ is emphasised, it is definite. The Lord thinks of this man as a man to be spoken to definitely, so that the pronoun is to be made very definite.
ABP Have some of our brethren been tested on this line in regard to the union? The naming of the name of the Lord and the expression of conscience has meant that they have been put out of employment in some cases. The Lord would take them on as suffering for the testimony, would you say?
JT That is the idea. There were eighteen of them in New York the other day who were retaining their place in the union in spite of the truth, disregarding the truth. They were brought down to ten, that is to say, God had wrought with them. I suppose the Lord had said to them, Thou, art thou to be affected by this? And I believe those eight who were saved were affected. Now He says to this man, “Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God?”. That is the challenge. Do you want to continue on in the union and disregard the fellowship, the enjoyment of the fellowship? That is what they were [p. 342] doing, but some of them relented and came back and have been restored so far. So now the next point is to show how this man is brought into the fold, or into the flock as I might say. It is a question of the Son of God, of a bold confession of the Son of God.
CT Does he then answer as a man under subjection? “And who is he, Lord?”: is that a man under subjection now?
JT He discerns the Lord’s proposal; he discerns what the Lord is about to say, so to speak. He says, “Who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him?” that is, that I may go the whole length of the truth, and the Lord sees that. “And Jesus said to him, Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he”. He is the One you want! The ‘he’ is emphasised, as the ‘I’ was when He spoke to the woman in chapter 4, “I who speak to thee am he”, John 4:26. Here He says to this man, “He that speaks with thee is he. And he said, I believe, Lord”.
JF Would that be the answer to the man’s saying, “It is I”, in verse 10? He identified himself with the testimony and then the Lord said to him, “He that speaks with thee is he”. He identifies himself with the One who is doing the work of God.
JT Just so, and he is ready for it; the man is ready for what the Lord is going to say to him, and the Lord says to him, “Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he”. It is not like the ‘He’ that we get in Isaiah, “I [am] HE”, Isaiah 43:13 this is just the identification of the Lord Jesus as the Son of God. The word ‘He’ in Isaiah is a title of the Deity, a title of God, but this is simply that the Lord is disclosing Himself happily and freely and joyously to this man who is a believer.
P You have been mentioning the thought of the Lord receiving this man into the flock; but then I suppose there would be the thought of retaining such a one. I was thinking of those affected by the [p. 343] union; it is a question of retaining them for the fellowship. David subjected Ittai to a test, but he would not have any fear of losing him, nor would Naomi of losing Ruth.
JT You used the word ‘retaining’. What is in your mind?
P I was thinking of the brothers in the New York area. They had been received some time prior to the union matter, but it was a question of retaining them when the test came.
JT You mean it is a question of keeping them in fellowship in the proper sense? Quite so, that is what we are aiming to do and we reduced them to ten from eighteen and we hope to reduce them more, to keep them.
RWS Is there something distinctive in confessing the Son of God as over against, shall we say, confessing the name of Jesus? Is there some feature that attaches to that title?
JT There is; we are on a higher level than the mere confession of Jesus, it is a question of the Son of God. The idea of confessing the Son of God is spoken of in John’s epistle. “Who is he that gets the victory over the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”, 1 John 5:5. That is a great matter; we are on a higher level than the mere confession of Jesus, it is a question of the Son of God. It is a victorious matter and we want to be in the victory. The word is, “Thanks to God, who gives us the victory”, 1 Corinthians 15:57 and the victory is the confession of the son of God. The question is whether we are all in that confession, not simply that we are believers in Jesus, but the confession of the Son of God is the point we are at now.
Ques Does that go beyond the confession of Jesus as Lord?
JT It does. The title ‘Son of God’ gives the dignity that belongs to Him, the One whom God has [p. 344] chosen, and the confession of Him as the Son of God is the victory, there is victory in it. “He is the true God and eternal life”, 1 John 5:20 we are told, to complete the matter.
AR Do John’s epistles suggest that you are fit for another world?
JT Well, I think they do. It is a question of sonship, God is bringing many sons to glory where glory is; it is a question of the glory that is in mind here. We shall see in chapter 10 that it implies the flock, being brought into the flock.
WWo He becomes a worshipper here, does he not?
JT He does. That is just what it says, he comes into the service of God and is a worshipper.
JRH This seems to fill out what it says in chapter 20, “These are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God”, John 20:31. You referred to chapter 4 where we have a person believing that He is the Christ, and here we have one believing that He is the Son of God. How would you compare the two?
JT Well, it is to show how the work of God is progressing amongst us. If we are confessing the Lord Jesus as the Son of God, we belong to another world really; we are fit for it.
RWS If any one of us is challenged, should we not discriminate as to how we will confess the Lord Jesus? Would not the opposition indicate the kind of testimony we should render, whether we should confess Him as Saviour or as Lord or as Christ or as Son of God? Does not this testimony seem peculiarly designed against the Pharisaical world?
JT I think, we might reserve that for a future reading. You are raising a question that implies the power we ought to have of distinguishing divine Persons, who it is that is speaking or being spoken [p. 345] to; and that is a very big subject. It will come in later in relation to the Spirit.
CHH Is the process in this chapter necessary in order to come into Paul’s line and understand the assembly?
JT We shall have to wait for your question too. It will come in later. It is a question of distinguishing divine Persons.