READINGS IN JOHN'S GOSPEL (1)
READINGS IN JOHN’S GOSPEL (1)
JT Within recent times the Lord seems to have made a great point of John’s gospel in view of the service of God. We shall consider it not as a whole but from the 8th to the 15th chapters. It is known to most of us that John’s gospel is peculiarly divided into chapters and subjects. The divisions into paragraphs and verses in the New Translation are usually accurate, so that this section may be treated as a special section by itself. The subjects are distinct; this one is very distinct. The previous chapter closes with the words, “And every one went to his home. But Jesus went to the mount of Olives”, John 7:53 and then we have an incident of great importance morally and God doubtless would help us as to the significance of it. The significance of John’s gospel cannot be overstated at this time. These sections lead up to the truth of the Holy Spirit, who is introduced in chapter 14, but the thought now is to look into this chapter because of its moral significance.
SMcC Would this chapter help us in relation to things being clear on the moral side before proceeding further? It is essential the moral side should be clear, is it not?
JT Well, it is. The position the Lord takes up is significant. In regard to the generality of the people, every one went to his own home; that is to say the Lord is left, as if He were not of special importance. But then He Himself takes up a position, “Jesus went to the mount of Olives” John 7:53; as if He were, for the moment at least, in relation with His Father. The mount of Olives denotes a spiritual setting, and the Lord intends to say something about what was to happen. He knew what would happen and in view of it we have, “And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him; and he sat down and taught them. And the scribes and the Pharisees bring to him a woman”.
[p. 308] Now this incident so well known to the brethren is questioned by many critics, but it is clearly the truth; it is clearly Scripture. The Lord’s attitude is what is in mind because it implies the moral side of the truth, how grace deals with incidents as they arise in the human family and especially among those who are professedly the Lord’s people.
CHH Is there anything in the fact that in chapter 7 He walks no longer in Judaea but enters into Galilee, and then in the next chapter we have the mount of Olives? Would it indicate that there was a change from what was of the law to what was spiritual? The mount of Olives was to supersede what the Lord spoke of in the moral question.
JT I think that is the point, that the Lord makes His own selections as to position. These paragraphs are not accidents. It says, “Jesus went to the mount of Olives”. If we take that up in a geographical sense there is not much in it, but if it is a spiritual matter there is a great deal in it. In a literal sense it was just a mount on the east side of Jerusalem to which the Lord was accustomed to go; but undoubtedly it is of spiritual significance and that enters into what is related in the following passages.
JF Would you say that the Lord’s ministry as coming from the mount of Olives would be definitely against what was merely formal or legal as represented by the Pharisees?
JT Very true; and they did not tell Him to go there; it was His own doing. Others went to their own homes, but then they came again to the temple in the morning, showing that there is some interest which the Lord sees. Then it says, “The scribes and the Pharisees bring to him a woman taken in adultery, and having set her in the midst, they say to him, Teacher ...”. These are the facts and it is a question [p. 309] of our being able to deduce from them something spiritual. These meetings are intended to be spiritual; they are not intended to be casual occupations for any one of us. What is said is to be spiritual and the Scriptures are to be authoritative in them; the scribes afford the Lord an opportunity to open them up, which the Lord does. The first thing they say is that she is taken in adultery, a humbling thing, but the matter is so common! It is humbling to have to speak about it at all, but at the same time the Lord acts in the matter. The Pharisees act in it too: they set the woman in the midst; but then He stooped and wrote on the ground. It is one of the writings that was written by the Lord Himself. He did not write the gospels or the epistles but He writes what is written here and we do not know just what He did write. It is a very suggestive thing that He did write and stooped down to write. It opens up this great subject, this terrible immorality that is prevalent in this country and in other countries. But then there is the spiritual side that the Lord brings out and that is what we are aiming at.
SP Is that how matters are to be handled, as Paul handled the Corinthian matters from an elevation above the Corinthian level?
JT That is it, I would say; it is a wider matter than what is local, the place of responsibility. It bears on the Jewish position and what was about to be opened up through the Lord’s death. The Lord’s death had to take place to effect our entrance into it, otherwise we should never have 1 Corinthians or the gospels either. The great fact of the Lord’s death is the thing to press upon our spirits. That had to happen.
ABP Does the Lord have in mind the day of the Spirit? I had in mind verse 39 of chapter 7: “But this he said concerning the Spirit, which they that believed on him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified”, John 7:39.
[p. 310] I wondered if that shed its light over this, that the Lord Jesus was anticipating the day of the Spirit.
JT Well, it is more than that in the death of the Lord Jesus. “The Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified”. The coming in of the Spirit depends on the Lord’s being glorified; but that again depends on another thing, and that is His death. He must die.
SJH What is involved in the stooping down?
JT It is wonderful! The Creator of the universe is stooping down! And there are certain accusers, certain accusations made by persons who themselves were not morally clear. So the whole position of judaism is involved and the Lord’s death is meeting it all.
CAM Is it right to connect the thought of the temple here with the reference to the temple as the Lord’s body earlier in the gospel?
JT Quite so, the temple was His body. He said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up”, John 2:19. It is a question of what He would do. But now these men are assuming that they can accuse a person of this type, and the Lord answers them; He stooped down, we are told, and He did not make any great haste to rise up. He lets the thing have full effect.
CHH Would that involve Philippians 2?
JT Quite so, the Lord’s own stoop. He was on an equality with God, yet think of it, think of Him stooping down here! He humbled Himself and made Himself of no reputation and was obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Think of that!
RWS Does not this give point to your allusion in prayer to Peter’s word, “that God has made him, this Jesus whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ”? Acts [p. 311] 2:36.
Is that not a complete answer to this stooping down?
JT It would be if you made much of the word ‘Lord’; the first title is Lord and the next is Christ, and God is related to them both. The Lord’s position in that sense is given by God. But this passage in John involves what He is in Himself; that is to say, if He dies, He dies; He has title to do it. The Father gave Him title to do it, to give Himself up, to give His life for the sheep. But it is Himself in John’s gospel generally; it is not what He is made, but what He is. He is the Creator of the universe. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”, John 1:1. All things were created by Him and nothing was created without Him, so that He is the Creator of the universe and yet He is doing this. He is going to deal with sin but He is stooping down to do it; He is stooping down to expose what men are and bring conviction into men’s consciences as to sin so that there might be room for the Spirit to operate. The point in John’s gospel is largely the operations of the Spirit with the Lord’s own. So unless anyone is born of the Spirit he does not see the kingdom of God. Room must be made for the Spirit and that implies that there must be conviction of sin.
Ques What is the point in His stooping down the second time?
JT The first stooping refers to Sinai, that is to say, “by law is knowledge of sin”, Romans 3:20. It is a sort of abstract statement but a very powerful one. They say in verse 5, “Now in the law Moses has commanded us to stone such; thou therefore, what sayest thou? But this they said proving him, that they might have something to accuse him of. But Jesus, having stooped down, wrote with his finger on the ground. But when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up and said to them, [p. 313] Let him that is without sin among you first cast the stone at her”.
[p. 312] That is searching by God through the lips of the Lord Jesus: “Let him that is without sin among you first cast the stone at her”. Not simply the first stone, but let him cast it at her. Is there anyone to do it?
JTJr You have the law given in Exodus 20 and you have the Hebrew servant in the next chapter to show how the law was to be carried out; but there is the basis for taking up these things in such a one as we now have in this chapter.
JT Very good. So the Lord’s attitude gives light to us, He stooped down and wrote with His finger. “But if by the finger of God I cast out demons”, Luke 11:20 we are told; the finger of God is the thing to notice. “But when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up and said to them, Let him that is without sin among you first cast the stone at her. And again stooping down he wrote on the ground”. That is the second time He stooped. “But they, having heard that, went out one by one beginning from the elder ones until the last”. Picture the scene! They did not go out pell-mell, it began with the older ones, it was orderly; men are orderly in the world but how much is it worth? We are thankful for the police of course, we are thankful for order, but what moral worth is there in it? They went out one by one beginning with the elders. What is that worth? They did not come back; there is no question of their coming into fellowship. The thing is negative, whereas the gospel involves what is positive, it involves the assembly; it is a positive thing that we are in today. First we get the gathering together, according to Matthew, and then we get the assembly, because the assembly is the fine point with God.
AB Is there something in the fact that although He stoops. He lifted himself up before He says.
“Let him that is without sin among you first cast the stone at her”?
JT He lifted Himself up! Just think of the action of a divine Person who created the universe, that He lifts Himself up!
EAL Do you think it is very significant that the Lord does not answer them orally? They say, “What sayest thou?”. “But Jesus, having stooped down, wrote with his finger on the ground”, that is, He answered them by writing. I was thinking of what He said at the end of Luke 16, “If they hear not Moses and the prophets, not even if one rise from among the dead will they be persuaded”, Luke 16:31. Moses was dead and they could not hear him, but the writings have a living voice. Was that the point?
JT Just so. Hence John says, “I write to you, children, because your sins are forgiven”, 1 John 2:14 that is the first thing. “I have written to you, young men, because ye are strong”, 1 John 2:14. What a beautiful thing, a wonderful thing really, “because ye are strong, and the word of God abides in you”. “I write to you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning”, 1 John 2:13. That is the idea of writing, it is positive; it is to regulate.
BW “For I had not had conscience also of lust unless the law had said, Thou shalt not lust”, Romans 7:7.
JT Quite so, “By law is knowledge of sin” Romans 3:20. The matter is down in black and white, so to speak. But then there is positive writing too, according to John’s epistles.
EAL Seeing it was not the mind of the Spirit to let us know what was written by the Lord, would you say this chapter teaches that there is much in the Scriptures that we can understand only spiritually and cannot get from the letter of the word?
JT Quite so. Look at the writings we have! The four gospels, the epistles, the Acts and the book of Revelation; and then the word in John’s gospel [p. 314] that if all the things Jesus did were written down the world itself would not contain the books. There is plenty written down: every scripture is inspired of God and profitable; and then the ministry of the Spirit of God has been going on day after day through all these ages and centuries. Day after day the Spirit of God is operating. That is expressed in what the Lord says, “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”. That is going on now; it is what the Spirit says to the assemblies now. The Lord has said things and the Spirit says things and this ministry of the Spirit is written down in such wonderful books as those we call the Collected Writings, and many others like them.
CHH In Luke when the Lord answers the tempter He not only says, “It is written” Luke 4:4; Luke 4:8,10, but “It is said” Luke 4:12. Would that be the combination of what we have today, what is written and what is said?
JT That is how the Lord read the Bible. It is wonderful how much writing there is! Of course in these meetings that we have today we are attempting to speak to one another, as it says, “They that feared Jehovah spoke often one to another” Malachi 3:16:; and there are those present to confirm what we are saying.
SP Referring back to His having lifted Himself up, which is His own act, in verse 28 we have, “When ye shall have lifted up the Son of man ...” What are we to understand as to the difference between the two liftings up?
JT John’s gospel speaks of three liftings up beside the two in this section, and they are very important to bear in mind and connect with each other. The Lord Himself is lifted up, but here He lifts Himself up. The lifting up of the Son of man means really that He is lifted up on the cross. He [p. 315] did not do that Himself, others did it. They crucified Him.
SP A certain knowledge seems to come with the third lifting up in this chapter. It says, “Then ye shall know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father has taught me I speak these things”.
JT “When ye shall have lifted up”: that is referring to the cross really, but the other two occasions are what He does Himself. The first lifting up is condemnation of the accusers, and the second shows that the accused is left standing there with nobody but the Lord. What would He do with her? It is a question of what He is going to do now. The woman is there by herself and the others are all gone. There is nothing positive in it at all, but it is a wonderful thing to think of, that the Lord of glory should be there in the presence of that woman, standing by her as she was left there by herself. She was in the midst really but now there is nothing to be in the midst of; there is only the Lord Himself. That meant that the basis must be laid for her to be forgiven. The Lord only says to her, “Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more”. What is to happen after that? We cannot have people in fellowship simply because we can say to them, ‘Do not sin any more’. We say more to them than that. The fact is the truth of the gospel and the truth of the church have to come in.
J.R Would you say that spiritual liberty is connected with the second lifting up? I am wondering about James’ epistle which he writes from a general standpoint, and when he comes to this matter of adultery he says, “So speak ye, and so act, as those that are to be judged by the law of liberty”, James 2:12.
JT Well, if you want to add more to what the Lord does. He does not add that at all, but it is quite right to add it and that is what we want to [p. 316] come to. The Lord is there and the woman is allowed to be in His presence. He is not with her nor she with Him, but she is allowed to be in His presence and He says to her, “Go, and sin no more”. That is all He says. That is not the truth that will develop the assembly; we need more than that.
RWS This woman is not up to the level of the woman in John 4, is she? The Lord does not seem to have too much confidence in this woman, whereas in John 4 does she not represent a type of the assembly?
JT Yes, I would say that, because she left her waterpot and went into the city to call the men. He told her that He was the Messiah, but He did not say anything like that to this woman. We have to get at the facts here. This woman is just left there; the Lord says to her, “Go, and sin no more”, and that is all He says. We must have more than that to establish the truth of the assembly and the discipline that is needed to bring out the truth of the assembly.
CHH Is His stooping down and lifting Himself up to establish a new basis, so to speak, from which matters can be dealt with?
JT I think that is just the point, it is a question of the third lifting up, and the Lord does not do that at all, others do it. It is mentioned three times in this gospel besides the two liftings up in this section. So that this whole matter comes up now in view of the assembly, and what there is for us to go in for to have the assembly in a positive way. So verse 28 reads, “When ye shall have lifted up the Son of man, then ye shall know that I am he”; notice that, we do not get the liftings up here; “then ye shall know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father has taught me I speak these things. And he that has sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, because I do always the things that are pleasing to him. As he spoke these things many believed on him”.
Now we have something positive: “many believed on him”. Apparently this woman does not; there is not a word said about what she does in that sense. It is what the Lord is bringing out as a sequence of this incident. We want to get the positive side in this passage; we have a wonderful line of thought here which will be a basis for other things that will lead up to the truth of the Holy Spirit.
RWS So we are sitting down in the beginning at this low level, so that we might restfully and quietly move forward during these three days to the higher levels involving the Holy Spirit. The Lord sat down. Are not we in a similar position, sitting down and contemplating this moral matter restfully so that, as you have intimated, we might move on to the matters of the Holy Spirit, higher matters as we progress in these meetings?
JT That is what I am hoping will take place. Verse 28 helps greatly and gives a basis for what we have indicated as to our meetings, that is to say, the Holy Spirit in chapters 14, 15 and all the chapters that follow. There is no limit, according to what may be needed. But here we have a basis; that is to say, “When ye shall have lifted up the Son of man, then ye shall know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father has taught me I speak these things. And he that has sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, because I do always the things that are pleasing to him. As he spoke these things many believed on him”. Many believed on Him. So that we have a basis now for proceeding in the enquiry as to the Holy Spirit. But here it is a question of the Lord’s being lifted up, which is His death; He was lifted up upon the cross. Jesus died and was buried and the third day He was raised up, and when the Lord is raised up the Spirit of God is [p. 318] given. He goes into heaven and the Spirit of God is given and the truth of the assembly is worked out. So that we have a solid basis for our inquiry as we proceed.
JTJr In chapter 20 the Lord formally turns over a matter like this — as to retaining or remitting sins — to such as would be able to handle it as He would handle it. After He has been lifted up and after He has suffered, He turns the whole matter over, really, to the assembly: “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained”, John 20:23.
JT That is very good. That is what John’s gospel leads up to. In the meantime we have much that we can say about these details up to verse 36; so it goes on to say in verse 12, “Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world; he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said to him, Thou bearest witness concerning thyself; thy witness is not true. Jesus answered and said to them, Even if I bear witness concerning myself, my witness is true, because I know whence I came and whither I go: but ye know not whence I come and whither I go. Ye judge according to the flesh, I judge no one”. That is to say, the Lord is here in grace. He is seeking to assert that. “And if also I judge, my judgment is true, because I am not alone, but I and the Father who has sent me. And in your law too it is written that the testimony of two men is true: I am one who bears witness concerning myself, and the Father who has sent me bears witness concerning me. They said to him therefore, Where is thy Father?”. Well, now you see what the Lord is aiming; at, that He is the light of the world. Much is to come in, the gospel is to come in because the Lord Jesus is the light of the world. He is not simply the light of men as in the first chapter, but [p. 319] the light of the world, and this is all to work out in the details of instruction that we have following this remarkable incident. “Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world; he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said to him, Thou bearest witness concerning thyself; thy witness is not true. Jesus answered and said to them, Even if I bear witness concerning myself, my witness is true, because I know whence I came and whither I go: but ye know not whence I come and whither I go”. That is to say, there is the light of the world and there is the testimony of two men, the great idea “that every matter may stand upon the word of two witnesses”, Matthew 18:16. That all comes into the truth of the assembly.
AP The woman was not the prime object of attack on the part of the scribes and Pharisees, but the Lord Himself.
JT They intended to ensnare Him in His words, so that the real issue was that. It is the scheme of the Pharisees and that is the sort of thing we have to deal with today. But then there is the testimony and the light of the world. What a glorious thought that is!
Ques Does this chapter show how God secures His lovers? They quoted the law of Moses, but it says, “For the law was given by Moses: grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”, John 1:17.
JT Just so. It says in John 1, “No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”, John 1:18. There is the revelation of God in Christ and then the light of the world is in Christ and then there is the testimony of two men as the Lord says here: “Jesus answered and said to them, Even if I bear witness concerning myself, my witness is true, because I know whence I came and whither I go: but ye know not whence I come and whither I go. Ye judge according to the flesh, I judge no one. And if also I judge, my judgment is true, because I am not alone, but I and the Father who has sent me. And in your law too it is written that the testimony of two men is true: I am one who bear witness concerning myself, and the Father who has sent me bears witness concerning me”.
[p. 320] So that there are two Witnesses, the most infinite witness or testimony that can be produced, the Father and the Son witnessing of a matter. The foundation of that witness is behind our dispensation.
SJH In verse 12 it says, “He that follows me”. The Lord Jesus was left alone and He would have continued to be alone unless He had died.
JT The Lord has set down in this whole gospel the great principle that we are to follow Christ. He said to Peter, “Follow thou me”, John 21:22.
AR It says in Matthew 18, “That every matter may stand upon the word of two witnesses or of three”, Matthew 18:16. The two witnesses bring it to the assembly. I was wondering if you had that in your mind?
JT Quite so, “that every matter may stand upon the word of two witnesses”. Then we have much as to following the Lord Jesus in this gospel; it is enlarged on in the last chapter where He says to Peter, “If I will that he abide until I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me”, John 21:22. That is the point for Peter, a meddlesome brother; the point for him was to follow the Lord Jesus. He is the light of the world here and “He that follows me ... shall have the light of life”. It is not simply the light of men, but the light of the world is shining.
FS The Lord presenting Himself as the light of the world is in contrast to the law which condemns.
JT Quite so; not a jot or tittle is written that is not useful; “By law is knowledge of sin”, Romans 3:20. It is useful because it brings about knowledge of sin. But [p. 321] then we come to the light of the world; there is the light of life and the light of men too, but the light of the world is the greatest of all. The light of the world, the great Luminary of the world is Jesus. The whole sun is represented in Him.
JTJr Could you bring in the fourth day here as well as the first day of Genesis?
JT Well, the first day “God said, Let there be light”, Genesis 1:3 but we are not told what it was. The first day is abstract, that is to say, “God said, Let there be light. And there was light”. Then the fourth day is the great luminary that is set in the heavens, the expanse. That must be some substance; there must be something there to cause the shining. It is very much like John 1:4, “In him was life”; that is the substance idea, and that substance is light. “In him was life, and the life was the light of men”, John 1:4.
JTJr I see what you mean, the substantial thought is connected with life in Him.
JT That is right, there must be substance. There must be a substantial idea to convey light.
EAL Would you say belief is connected with light in verse 31? “Jesus therefore said to the Jews who believed him, If ye abide in my word, ye are truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free”. They are in effect those who accepted the testimony and the witness we have spoken of.
JT Quite so; so that He is the light of life, the Son. The Lord Jesus as the Son of God is the light of life. “If therefore the Son shall set you free, ye shall be really free”. That is the idea, it is a Person now, the liberty the Person gives us.
CHH Does that lead up to the truth of His deity in verse 28? The Son of man is beautifully identified with the “I am”. The ‘he’ should not be there. “When ye shall have lifted up the Son of man, then ye shall know that I am (he)”.
JT Quite so, if you make “I am” a title of His deity, because that is really what it is. He is called “I am” in Exodus Exodus 3:14; that is a title of the Lord Jesus.
Ques What is the connection between the Lord here as the light of the world and what He says in Matthew 5, “Ye are the light of the world”? Matthew 5:14.
JT Well that is what saints are in principle; the Spirit has come down to be with us and we are the light of the world, a very great thing surely. It is because the Spirit of God is here; I mean it is implied in Matthew that the Spirit of God is here, and He is here now with us this morning. He is here for the gospel testimony too. It is a question of light; the Spirit is light.
JRH Is this thought of the light of the world like what Paul says, “God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning to them their offences”? 2 Corinthians 5:19.
JT Just think of the magnitude of that! “Not reckoning to them their offences”! Instead of imputing trespasses, it is reconciliation.
ABP Would you explain what is meant by, “If ye abide in my word”?
JT I think the idea of abiding in a thing is an astronomical thought in John. Any element or feature of the universe abiding in a place, remaining in its orbit, is a principle with John; it is really astronomical, that a person remains where he is set.
ABP That would link on then with His place as the light of the world. His word would hold us in relation to Himself as the light of the world.
JT Just so.