THE ORDER MARKING THE CHURCH AT THE OUTSET
[p. 75] THE ORDER MARKING THE CHURCH AT THE OUTSET
JT The chapter is suggested in connection with the second epistle to Timothy, which the brethren had on their minds. It may seem singular that we should read a chapter that presents to us the formation of the church originally, whilst what is in the mind of the brethren is a day of ruin, and what should govern us in a day of ruin. But in order to be for God in a day of ruin we have to see the order which marked the church as established at the outset.
AH I suppose your idea is to show what was God’s thought in the beginning; and when we get to God’s principles it shows us how to act in a day of ruin. It has been said often that it is a great thing to trace things to their source.
JT A remark in the last chapter of the Old Testament is, I think, helpful in this connection, as it was uttered in a day of small things. The people are called upon to remember the law of Moses which was, with the statutes and judgments, commanded to him in Horeb for all Israel I think it is very suggestive that it should be there; such a reminder in the last chapter of the Old Testament.
FL Do you not think that that line of things comes out very much in the Old Testament? I was thinking with regard to the remnant in Ezra, they could not have rebuilt the house if they had not known what Solomon’s house was. They must have had the divine thought of what it was. And, too, in Nehemiah when they kept the feast of tabernacles there was no such feast since the days of Joshua. It is rather on the line of what you were indicating.
JT Quite so. The passage in Malachi is, “Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which [p. 76] I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments”. Malachi 4:4. I think it is very suggestive that it appears there. It might be said the conditions to which the law applied had passed away. Yet the saints are called upon to remember it.
JNH Does that mean the law given at Sinai?
JT That is what is said. It is not a specific law given for remnant days, but the law given for all Israel.
GAT The church having become broken up has not changed the thoughts of God.
JT If there is any building now it is in relation to the original structure as indicated in this chapter.
AAT What are the points that we, in this day, should practically remember took place in that day?
JT I think one great point in connection with the formation of the church was that the saints were to adhere sedulously to the commandments of Christ. In chapter 1 He commanded them to tarry at Jerusalem until they were endued with power from on high. That is to say, they were placed under obligations by His commandments. Following on the stress the Lord laid on His commandments in the gospel of John, I think it is important to note that the church was formed in that connection. It was really formed by those who knew how to keep Christ’s commandments, and undoubtedly that is the thought of God in the church — the assembly. It was to be regulated by Christ’s commandments.
WHF And the material was suitable and prepared by the Lord Himself when He was there.
JT I think its suitability is shown in chapter 1. That is, they abode by His commandments and acting on a specific commandment in relation to the selection of an apostle, they recognised what had already been written. There is no need for repetition in the things of God. They recognised what had been [p. 77] written in regard to the selection of an apostle. That was an acknowledgment of the authority of Scripture.
AH And that apart from the teaching of the Holy Spirit.
JT Apart from what the New Testament discloses. It brings out the authority of the Old Testament Scriptures in the church. I think it shows the place that the Old Testament should have amongst us. But the great governing principle in the church is the commandments of Christ. Therefore the epistle to the Corinthians is of such value to us, because it is specially said there, “If any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord”. 1 Corinthians 14:37.
G.A.T. What are they?
JT The epistle to the Corinthians might be taken as setting forth the commandments of the Lord in regard to the order of the church.
JNH It is said so in chapter 14.
WHF You were saying that in Acts 2 you get the positive thing, the foundation, and that it is well for us to be thoroughly grounded in that, in order to carry out what we get in 2 Timothy.
JT And indeed the principles are the same, because you have to obey. Whatever the conditions may be in which you may be found, the obligation to obey exists.
WHF You would say, that after the church is formed by the Spirit, then the Spirit is the operating power; whereas now in the condition of things in which we find ourselves it is more the Lord’s authority. There was the liberty of the Spirit unhindered in the assembly then.
JT And where the Lord’s authority is not recognised you cannot have that. The authority of Christ and the activity of the Spirit go together. Therefore in 2 Timothy 2 the point is the authority of Christ. “Let every one that nameth the name of the Lord depart from iniquity”. 2 Timothy 2:19. It is as we recognise that which is due to Christ that we come again to the activity of the Spirit.
ANW The case of Ananias would seem to bear out what you say. They lied against the Holy Spirit.
WHF The authority of Christ and the activity of the Spirit go together. You cannot have the latter without the former.
JT I think the place of the Holy Spirit in the earlier chapters was a great point of testimony, that He had come into the midst of Israel. That is, they had put Christ to death and now the Spirit comes in; so that all that happens is viewed as bearing upon the Spirit. Therefore Stephen’s address sums up the whole history. They had always resisted the Holy Spirit, and now they were resisting Him, so that it was sin against the Holy Spirit.
JNH What is the significance of that in the statement where it says, “thou hast not lied unto men but unto God”? (Acts 5:4)
JT I think the enemy was attempting to attack the Spirit at that time, because His presence in Israel involved the great testimony of God for the moment. The enemy was endeavouring to make out that the Spirit was not there. If the sin of Ananias had been successful he would have so far succeeded, but the power of the Spirit was too manifest.
WHF That was one of the conditions indicated through Haggai — “my spirit remaineth among you, fear ye not”. Haggai 2:5.
GAT Is Acts 2 the foundation of the church laid by God?
JT I think so; of what I might call the historic church. It is the church that appears in the book of Revelation. For the moment it was the vessel of the administration of God’s bounty in the midst of Israel.
[p. 79] The first six chapters of the Acts present the church in relation to Israel; the activity of the Spirit in the church as showing God’s long-suffering to Israel.
Ques Does “Repent and be baptised ... for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38) show it is different from what we have today?
JT The great force of baptism is just in that connection. God was delivering from that system, and baptism was the outward confession on the part of the one baptised that he was withdrawing from it. But, nevertheless, God was, in patience, bearing witness to Israel in the church by the activities of the Spirit.
FL And that is the connection of the reference to the prophet Joel.
JT I think so; that the prophecy of Joel was actually fulfilled in their midst.
FL The fulness waits for a coming day, but so far as God was concerned there was a fulfilment of what was promised in Joel.
JT So the testimony of Peter’s sermon in chapter 3. In chapter 2 Peter says that Christ is ascended to heaven and the result is good for Israel; “he hath shed forth this which ye now see and hear”. Acts 2:33. That is for Israel. “The promise is unto you and to your children”. Acts 2:39. So the exaltation of Christ at the right hand of God was good for Israel. Then in chapter 3 Peter tells the people further, that Christ is waiting in the heavens till they repent, to come back to them. Chapter 4 shows us the result as to the leaders; that all is hopeless. That wonderful overture of God is rejected; the leaders are banded together against the testimony. In chapter 7 Stephen charges the elders that they had always resisted the Spirit; as their fathers did, so did they. Then you get the world-wide testimony through Paul, and the church in its present form.
RSS I suppose the latter is indicated in the statement of Peter: “the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call”. Acts 2:39.
JT Yes. That passage shows God’s order in regard to things on earth: the Jew first, and then the Gentile. But the present moment is not marked by the Jew first. The fact is, it is not the Jew at all now. Things have changed. God has definitely turned away from the Jew. “The salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles”. Acts 28:28. The testimony is to the Gentiles now.
FL It is very interesting to see that when the Lord came He took things up in connection with the promises and the testimony of the prophets, and when He is exalted and the Holy Spirit has come, the same line is pursued, as the early chapters in Acts show, after the death of Stephen there is a change. The fulness of the blessing flowing out from the One who is exalted comes out in connection with the Gentiles.
JT It is the Jew first all through the Acts; that is, God patiently follows the Jew into every part of the empire with the testimony. I think this brings out His long-suffering, which is a very affecting thing.
FL In going through the Acts we find that in all the places the apostles visit they preserve that order till Paul reaches Rome. God had gone to the full length, and here the testimony of the apostle is rejected.
JT And then, the significant thing is that Isaiah 6 is quoted. It had been quoted in John 12. In both chapters God is dealing judicially with the people of Israel as having rejected the testimony; in the former, the testimony of the Lord, and in the latter that of the Spirit. God patiently visited the different colonies of the Jews and invariably His testimony was rejected by them. In Rome they reasoned in regard to it, and the apostle quotes Isaiah 6 and says, “The salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles and they will hear it”. Acts 28:28. So today it is not the gospel to the Jew first nor, in a sense, to the Jew and Gentile strictly, it is to the Gentiles only. The Jews, as Jews, are under wrath, although as men every blessing in Christ is available to them.
WCR Although the church is in ruins, and so, according to 2 Timothy, the testimony is entrusted to faithful men, yet church order is not given up No. I think, as we were saying, when 2 Timothy days arrived, and separation took place, evidently those who, in faithfulness to Christ, withdrew from iniquity, would fall back on the commandments of the Lord, which were given, as it were, “in Horeb for all Israel”. Malachi 4:4. You do not let any of them go. You seek to walk in the light of them all; and I think that is what is so important now, inasmuch as the commandments of Christ have been violated. We have to fall back on what He commanded for the whole church, and see to it that nothing is violated; because you will not have the activities of the Spirit if the commandments of Christ are not adhered to; and I do not think any Christian can do without the Spirit.
Rem You do not say corporate testimony is in the church now.
JT The question is whether there is any church testimony now; the candlestick is removed. Any Christian with light rejoices in the order of God’s house, and seeks to walk in the light given as regards it; but he has to admit that the corporate body which once had the light of the testimony has become a dark body. If you were to stand outside and view it, you would not view one ray of light, whereas at the outset it was the reflection of Christ.
RSS When was the candlestick removed?
JT I think it was lost in Thyatira. It was threatened in Ephesus, but where apostasy is definitely [p. 82] admitted you could not think the Lord would regard it as any longer His testimony. In Thyatira apostasy is admitted as a ruling principle; the elements were there in Pergamos, but the influence of that had not yet prevailed. In Thyatira it prevailed, so that a remnant is recognised for the first time; and when the remnant is recognised by Christ, the corporate body is given up morally.
B Would you make clear what the testimony is?
JT It has often been alluded to. It is a very large thought, because it takes in all that God is in His nature and all that He would effect in His counsels. We have in 2 Timothy 1:8, the testimony of our Lord. His authority is in question.
B But you do not say it applies especially to the lordship of Christ.
JT I think that is the beginning of it. Peter’s address in this chapter so far as it goes indicates what was in God’s mind. That is, that Christ should be exalted, and the result is blessing here upon earth for men. But then there is a good deal that came out subsequently to that; that is, the truth of the assembly, the mystery.
B It all comes in in relation to the lordship of Christ.
JT I think everything centres around Christ’s present position of exaltation.
WHF The subject of the testimony would be Christ.
JT Yes. He is the great subject of all testimony on the part of God; and the cloven tongues here have allusion to the fact that God would spread the testimony. The testimony would be announced to every creature. God would speak of that Man.
FL I suppose the testimony has one definite line running all through it, but it assumes different aspects according to the day in which it is spoken of. The testimony continues from Abel down, and,
[p. 83] at you say, always had Christ in view in one aspect or another.
JT Yes. God had His testimony in view from the outset, and so spoke of it.
FL So you can see the importance of being on the line of the Spirit.
JT God was speaking all along from the outset. So the tongues here. “God who at sundry times ... hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son”. Hebrews 1:1,2. The Son is the last, and now the only Speaker. The tongues here are really Christ’s; they are under His control. Christ is speaking to men, and the speaking is universal. Therefore you get a universal language. Christ speaks to all, so that you get a perfect testimony now because of the presence of the Spirit here. The Lord has all tongues under His control, and they are to announce what is in heaven. The Spirit is the mode of expression. He came upon the disciples in the character of cloven tongues, showing that there was to be speaking.
GAT If you speak it should be by the Spirit.
JT But really Christ is the Speaker. Of course the Spirit also speaks: “Wherefore as the Holy Ghost saith, To-day if ye will hear his voice”. Hebrews 3:7. He speaks continuously in the house of God.
RSS The Lord seems to make a distinction in the addresses to the seven churches. “To the rest I say”, and then, “he that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith”. Revelation 2:24,29.
JT I am sure He does. What Christ says is a question of His authority. That is represented in what He says; whereas what the Spirit says refers to what is subjective and continues here amongst us. But primarily the great thought to impress on the assembly was the authority of Christ. Divine Persons are distinguished, and the Spirit speaks as a divine Person, but He speaks in a subjective way; that is, as dwelling in [p. 84] the church.
RSS What He says has regard to the authority of the Lord.
JT What Christ says is in the way of authority; He speaks in the dignity of a Judge. It is not communications from the Father. In the addresses to the seven churches the Lord’s authority is impressed upon us; but there is also the continued speaking of the Spirit, which we are to hear.
RSS We are not told what the Spirit said in that day. That comes out now.
GAT I suppose walking in the Spirit we shall be the testimony.
JT I was saying that it is very doubtful that we can speak of testimony in the way in which it was spoken of primarily, though God always gave a light in Jerusalem. God always has a light here, but if you were to stand outside the great professing body you would not see that light. I think that the heathen cannot see any light. We have to come in amongst Christians to find a flickering flame. You could not see it outside. At the beginning you could not fail to see it.
FL I suppose that at the beginning, the testimony was in connection with Israel, although in the church: that is, up to the seventh chapter then the testimony was in the church as the body — Paul’s testimony.
JT Yes, and 1 Timothy shows the form which that testimony took; the saints were to be marked by the character and nature of God; their attitude towards men was to be in accord with God’s attitude toward them.
FL And now it is “the testimony of our Lord”, the character of which is seen in our withdrawing from iniquity and going on with righteousness.
JT Yes, and you are waiting the time when it shall be openly disclosed.
AAT It will not be testimony [p. 85] then?
JT It will be; only, as when the ark reached its resting place, conflict will be past. The world to come will be testimony. It will be the setting forth of what God is able to do.
JNH Why does it say, “Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of the Lord, nor of me his prisoner”? (2 Timothy 1:8) What is the special way that he might be ashamed of it?
JT I think what the apostle Paul was standing for: the truth of the mystery, brought him into reproach, not only among the heathen, but among his brethren. Doubtless, in some cases, because they misunderstood him. A man who is in prison is under reproach, and unless you are walking with the Lord, you will be ashamed of him. So he says of Onesiphorus, being in Rome, he sought me out diligently and found me. The apostle’s remark as to this brother has a peculiar touch: he “was not ashamed of my chain”. 2 Timothy 1:16. Onesiphorus might have gone back and said he could not find Paul.
JNH How does “the prisoner of the Lord” Ephesians 4:1, apply to us at this time?
JT What is under reproach now is the testimony. The prisoner is not here, although there are those who, in measure, are suffering with the testimony. The apostle was so wholly identified with it that he was suffering with it.
JNH “Be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God”. 2 Timothy 1:8.
GAT What do you mean by saying the testimony is in reproach now?
JT Whatever God is making specially prominent at any given moment is in reproach. Now the reproach is in connection with those who profess to be the Lord’s, not among the heathen. Christ when here was under the greatest reproach. He was the Nazarene. In these chapters in Acts it is [p. 86] in the name of Him who was regarded as the Nazarene that the testimony is announced, and accordingly the apostles suffered reproach on account of His name: chapter 4. They did not suffer it from the people in general, for they were more or less interested, but from the leaders. The priestly family and the elders were pronounced in their hatred to Christ, and therefore the apostles suffered. The world being what it is, such a One as Christ is bound to be under reproach, and when the spirit of the world obtains amongst God’s people the same thing appears, so that Paul really suffered from the same element, only it was then amongst professed Christians.
ANW Would you say in the days of our Lord here, when the testimony was maintained in Him personally, that the disciples shared with Him in it?
JT I think so. When you become acquainted with Christ you feel He must be in reproach. The natural man does not like Christ.
JNH Eventually they seemed to have been well formed for it, because it says in Acts 5 that they rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name.
RSS “All that will live godly in Christ Jesus, shall suffer persecution”. 2 Timothy 3:12. I imagine that in Old Testament times there was not much of that. I think the point in 2 Timothy is, “in Christ Jesus”.
JT Still I suppose wherever faith was, it laid hold of Christ from the outset, and it is Christ that arouses the hostility of the natural man. Now it is remarkable that, while sentence of death was passed upon Adam, the first man that died was one of God’s people. Viewed in a physical way, Satan used death first. Satan used death against God in killing Abel, who represented Christ. It was Christ Satan was hostile to. There was a ray of Christ there in Abel.
RSS I suppose that in Old Testament times,
[p. 87] just in so far as Christ was brought in, there was reproach.
JT Look at the persecution alluded to in Hebrews 11. It was Christ that incurred all that. Moses suffered “the reproach of Christ”. Hebrews 11:26.
WCR And then in Stephen’s address: “Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers”. Acts 7:52.
JT Their righteousness and faithfulness incurred the suffering, but it was really Christ that the enemy persecuted.
JNH Abel suffered more than reproach. Paul says, “suffer evil along with the glad tidings according to the power of God”, 2 Timothy 1: 8.
JT Now what is in reproach is not Paul, he is not here, but the testimony.
AC Is it not normal that we should suffer? “Unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake”. Philippians 1:29.
JT I think the tabernacle in the wilderness suggests to us that the saints should come into suffering. Certain colours in the covering, such as the scarlet and the purple, indicated that there should be reproach, because reproach now corresponds to glory in the future. A man that lives godly in Christ Jesus suffers persecution. A man might be godly in a certain legal sense, but the apostle speaks of a man godly in Christ Jesus.
B Would you not say that the godly man is characterised by maintaining, in the face of all opposition, all that has come in from God from the beginning?
RSS Persecution comes in in connection with another Man; that is Christ. If you go on with the first man and his things and recognise him in [p. 88] any degree there is no persecution. It is when another Man comes in that the opposition is raised.
JT Satan cannot tolerate Christ in this world.
FL It is very striking how that came out in Mark 10. That young man would listen with a great deal of interest to what the Lord was saying about houses and lands, but then there are the “persecutions” if you identify yourself with Him.
JT And it is for His sake and the gospel’s.
RSS Was it not the persecution that the Lord Himself endured? It was not in regard to what He was personally, but in regard to the testimony.
JT As an illustration of that in Luke 4, in the synagogue, He reads, and He speaks, and it says: “all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words that proceeded out of his mouth”. Luke 4:22. There was no persecution there. It was His own city, and I dare say they would be glad of such a One there. It would be an honour to any city to have One like that. But then He says, “I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land but unto none of them was Elias sent, save into Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian”. Luke 4:25 - 27. Then it says they “were filled with wrath, and rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong”. Luke 4:28,29. When He began to witness for God there was persecution. Still, while that was true, I think the leaders, as animated by Satan, really hated Him personally. “Now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father”. John 15:24.
AH That comes out, too, in the statement, “Away with him”: “not this man, but Barabbas”.
JT The very sight of Him seemed to draw out their hatred.
FL “They hated me without a cause”. John 15:25.
AC It was because of His being here for God that He suffered; as you see in Psalm 69 “the reproaches of them that reproached thee, are fallen upon me”.
RSS It says, “Jesus increased in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man”. Luke 2:52. That was as in His boyhood, but when He came to manhood and came out in testimony, it was then the hatred began.
GAT Why is it you do not get that hatred in the last verses of this chapter?
JT Because as yet the leaders had not been called into activity. These things were wonderful. It was no small thing that three thousand people should be converted even in a large city like Jerusalem. That was a very great number of people; and the power was evident and could not be denied. It was power for good, and unprejudiced people do not object to this; but when the man in chapter 3 is healed in the name of the Nazarene, the priestly family are set in movement. It means that their day has come. It means, that if God was acting in the name of another than themselves, they were out of commission. They ought to have been the channels of blessing to the people; they sat in Moses’ seat. Now it was evident God had passed them.
AH Does not that come out in John 9:30 “Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes”.
JT And then they cast him out of the synagogue. The tabernacle is a foreshadowing of the order of things which God has in His mind, and the tabernacle witnessed to degrees of privilege and blessing. But it was to be one tabernacle. The idea of unity was [p. 90] to pervade throughout. So that there will be the absence of all rivalry and envy and strife. There will be infinite variety and degrees of privilege and blessing, and yet all will be marked by unity; and I think that every part will be in touch with the others.
WCR If that is to be seen in the world to come and the church is the first item and the present item, ought not unity to be seen in it now?
JT That is the thing that is of the greatest importance for the moment. Everything is witnessed to now in the church. The whole scheme finds some answer at the present time livingly in the church, so that it is not only that God speaks as in the prophets, announcing things, but the peculiar feature of this day is that the thing has taken form in life. It is presented livingly; so, in a sense, all may be said to have come in already. Now we have the substance of things.
WCR You see in Acts 2 men’s wills are subdued, and then the believers had all things in common. It shows that what they were as natural men had been set aside; so that although we have not the church as presented in the beginning, yet its features ought to be here.
JT And I think you have in this chapter the power by which the world is overthrown. The book of Joshua shows the power of God active for the overthrow of the world, and I think the testimony of the apostles has brought that to pass morally. Every feature of the world was overthrown by their testimony. This chapter shows clearly that every principle of the world lost its hold on those who believed. It is in that way a unique chapter: every element of the world was completely effaced in these people. A new order of things, taking character from Christ, had been inaugurated.
GAT They knew what it was to go through the eye of the needle.
JT [p. 91] They had gone through the death of Christ in their spirits; the three thousand went through it in accepting baptism. So that what we see here is really a world out of death in principle.
B What do you think is meant by the foundation of God standing sure? 2 Timothy 2:19.
JT God’s power. That nothing that God has in mind can fail. That ought to be a settled thing with every believer and then, moreover, in the midst of the confusion the Lord knows accurately every one who is His, and that gives you great rest in regard to your brethren. Although you cannot do much for them the Lord knows them and can help them. There are two sides to the seal. The first side is, “The Lord knoweth them that are his”; the second, “Let every one that nameth the name of the Lord depart from iniquity” 2 Timothy 2:19.
B So that we need not have fear at any time.
WHF The foundation of God is connected with His eternal counsels.
JT I think so, and the believer knows that they stand. No work can stand against or affect that.
RSS Is there any connection with the work of God in the soul in the expression, “the foundation of God”? 2 Timothy 2:19.
JT I think “the foundation of God” primarily refers to the sockets of the tabernacle. The foundation of God is laid in righteousness and that cannot be destroyed; that is immutable. It is laid in the death of Christ, and that maintained here in souls is the basis of things. The apostle in writing to Corinth says, “other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ”; (1 Corinthians 3:11) but then evidently it was Jesus Christ as having died and risen. It is Christ as risen who is the foundation in souls. Had He not died you would be unsettled; but He has died and risen, and having Him in the faith of your soul in that character, nothing can shake [p. 92] you.
FL I rather regard that statement as a statement of objective truth; and it is followed on by what is subjective, the effect produced in our souls in consequence.
JT I think so; only as a matter of fact the foundation of things is in the souls of God’s people; that is, Christ is laid there.
RSS And how is that connected with what was spoken of in connection with the purposes of God?
JT It is on that immutable foundation everything stands.
RSS And that the purpose of God has been brought to pass in connection with that foundation.
JT Yes. You see the tabernacle rested on that, It is the pattern of the whole scheme. It rested in redemption in sockets of silver; silver sets forth redemption. Now that is really in the anti-type Christ risen. Christ is redemption; He is made unto us redemption.
JNH In connection with the power of God, is it right to designate resurrection as the greatest expression of it?
JT Yes, certainly; Christ is the wisdom and the power of God.
B Would you say that in the first place the purpose of God was immutable, and then given effect to in the death of Christ?
JT The foundation is laid and laid for ever; nothing can touch it. Men may say and do many things and overthrow the faith of some, but Scripture never contemplates the complete overturning of faith. While faith is here, the foundation is here.
Rem Has the seal any reference to the foreknowledge of God?
JT The Lord knows each of His people. You have the assurance that the Lord knows them that are His, and you have great rest of spirit in regard [p. 93] to your brethren. You may be doubtful as to their identification, but you do not lose your affection for them.
FL The question is sometimes asked, Why cannot we have the condition of things today that was found in Acts 2? Because we cannot find the company. We might be glad to do as they did if we could be in that same moral conformity to Christ.
JT You do not look for all the things that you find in Acts 2 in order to have those to walk with, or you would have none to walk with. You look now for those walking in righteousness, faith, love and peace. There they went beyond these things, selling their lands, etc.
GAT Would you say we think too much of our possessions now?
JT You cannot make the absence of such surrender a test in any way.
FL I think that if there was the company that had the characteristics of Acts 2, we would be glad to join in the spirit of what was done at the beginning, but it is impossible to find that now.
GAH Does the unity of Acts 2 exist today?
JT Not in the practical and concrete way manifested then, because there are many that are not with us. We miss them for they are not in that unity manifestly; still the unity of the Spirit is maintained.
ANW It is remarkable that they were not severed from the temple in Acts 2.
JT God was still witnessing to Israel. The outward breach had not yet come.
GAH But the unity of the Spirit remains and cannot be broken. That is what we should seek to be in.
JT You endeavour to keep it.
WCR You do nothing to break it.
JT The [p. 94] body remains.
JNH I was struck with what you said in regard to our having the substance. Did you think of Hebrews 11 and that faith is the substance of things hoped for?
JT Yes; we have come to the substance. Our faith is in regard to things that have now taken form, whereas they had faith in regard to things that did not exist at all as yet.
GAH Would you state what produces unity?
JT I think unity is formed in the main by Christ being brought to your attention; that is, men unite on Christ. The excellency of the work and Person of Christ make Him an object, thus all who are interested in Christ are united. I think that Christ in that way brings unity to pass among men. The Spirit is the subjective power that effects it in us. The saints in Acts 1 were agreed with one accord; it was the fruit of Christ’s ministry in them. Now, unity is brought to pass amongst the Gentiles by the Spirit leading us to appreciate Christ.
B Do you distinguish between the thought of unity and union?
JT Union is as between a man and his wife. Adam and Eve represent union, whereas unity contemplates a number of persons, two or more, united in mind and affection. The unity of the Spirit ought to be a concrete thing. It is the unity of affections centred in Christ. The Spirit bringing Christ to our attention, He becomes the Object to us, and we are united in that way, and in that way only. If our unity is based on anything other than that, it is not of God.
RSS David is a good illustration of what you say. It was on him that the twelve tribes united. For seven years he was king over only a part of Israel, and then they all united to make David king.
B Would you not say unity is the result of union?
JT Unity existed before the truth of union was [p. 95] known. I do not think the Lord would unite with Himself what was not united in itself.
FL I think unity is an outcome of the calling. “Called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord”. 1 Corinthians 1:9. Those who are true to the calling are united.
RSS Unity no doubt preceded union. Union would come in when God has brought something into existence here.
JT When the man is formed the thought of union appears there. There could not be union with God.
Rem According to the end of John 17, the world will see unity by and by.
JT Quite so. When man appears, then the woman appears, and then you have materials for union; “twain shall be one flesh”. Genesis 2:24. That contemplates only two; but unity contemplates any number of people.
LKM Is not unity effected by the Spirit?
JT Yes, by having our minds and hearts centred on Christ. The Spirit engages saints with Christ.
Rem But the believer is united to Christ by the Spirit.
JT Yes. “He that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit”. 1 Corinthians 6:17.
RSS I think what you see in the religious world is the outcome of not understanding what you are speaking of. The great aim is for union and getting the sections of churches into one. But God’s great thought is unity.
AC Would you say it comes out where it is said, “and I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me”, John 12: 32.
JT Yes. He becomes the gathering centre for all.
B Unity would be the effect of the power of divine affection [p. 96] in the soul.
JT Unity is a very practical thing amongst us.
FL And where it exists there is pretty sure to be prosperity.
JT Where unity exists there you get the ark of the covenant installed in its place. That is the thing that follows on united Israel. Christ gets His place in our hearts, in a corporate way, in connection with God’s counsels: according to Ephesians 3:17; “that Christ may dwell in your hearts”. That is corporate.
WFH Blessing follows unity.
JT Always. Unity first, then Christ in His place, dwelling there, and then you have blessing. The Spirit is then free.
FL And then the final thing: glory to God throughout all ages.
AH As in Psalm 133, there God commanded the blessing.
GH What did David do after the ark was restored?
JT He distributed blessing to the people, and then the psalm was sung. The thought of unity is a very wonderful one, because the Lord delights in it. At the dedication of the temple, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound in praising and thanking the Lord, the glory entered.
RSS That is a beautiful chain beginning with their uniting to make David king, and then bringing up the ark, and then the administration of blessing, and the glory.
Rem Do not the heavenly bodies in relation to the sun suggest the thought of what we are considering?
JT They set forth more righteousness.
Rem I was thinking of the attractive power which is manifested by the sun in keeping and holding them.
JT Each retains his appointed place, which I think does not go beyond the thought of [p. 97] righteousness.
FL Everything is regulated and kept in order by the sun.
Rem That is what we are considering in regard to the thought of unity.
JT Unity goes beyond righteousness. Unity is really in affection.
Rem That is what is set forth in the thought of a centre power: the power of attraction.
JT Yes, but each star must retain its place, and that is an important part of the truth for us, but I think unity is in advance of that.
JNH Righteousness is important to consider.
RSS But righteousness does not necessarily bring us nearer together. It is affection that does that.
B It will be seen in the company all delighting to give Christ the supreme place.