READING MATTHEW 14
[p. 146] READING MATTHEW 14
JB You were speaking of the greatness of Christ as coming out in chapter 12.
JT Yes; as naturally following on the position the Lord takes up in chapter 11. In chapter 12 He occupies the position David occupied as rejected by Saul, and the various occurrences and signs bring out what He was in His greatness. He was Lord of the sabbath, and a greater than Jonas or Solomon; and yet both in the case of Jonas and Solomon the Gentiles had been affected. The Ninevites had repented at the preaching of Jonas, and the queen of the south had come to hear Solomon’s wisdom. These facts would only throw more into evidence the thorough blindness of Israel. And another thing helps in regard to chapter 12; the Lord brings forward the relative value of man; not now of Israel as such, but of man. “How much then is a man better than a sheep?” Matthew 12:12. In view of what God was about to establish in connection with man, I think we can see the importance of that.
EJW It is noticeable that the Spirit comes prominently into view in chapter 12 in connection with the kingdom of God being there; verse 28.
JT That is in keeping with His position at that time. There was the demonstration by power of the presence of the kingdom among them.
GFW It is usually the kingdom of heaven in Matthew, and there must be a point why it is the kingdom of God here.
JT The kingdom of God is ever the exercise of divine power here on earth for man; whereas the kingdom of heaven has reference to the presence of Christ in heaven as ruling those below. The power of the kingdom was exercised here on earth by Christ [p. 147] amidst Israel.
EJW It is helpful to see the way the kingdom has been introduced first in testimony; its great power and its character were set forth in testimony by the Lord Himself in His ministry.
RSS In verse 26 the kingdom of Satan is spoken of and in verse 28 the kingdom of God.
JT The kingdom of God is, according to this passage, as we have been saying, the exercise of divine power in man for the good of men, as against what is adverse to them. I suppose the kingdom of Satan is that which is recognisable by all of us as present here on earth, a sphere dominated by him.
JSG Does the Lord not only show the foolishness of what they have said, but the wonderful fact that God had come in and was delivering man out of the condition in which he had placed himself?
JT And the fact that the Lord cast out demons proved the superiority of the kingdom of God; that is, it was greater than the kingdom of Satan, as He goes on to show. “How can anyone enter into the house of the strong man and plunder his goods, unless first he bind the strong man? and then he will plunder his house”, Matthew 12:29. That is, the testimony of this chapter is that the Lord was in the midst of Israel in the exercise of the power of the kingdom, and that it was such a power as was superior to the power of Satan’s kingdom, in which the Jews really were. There was not only the presence of the Messiah personally amongst them, but also the presence and activity of the kingdom in the power of the Spirit, and they rejected both. The Lord adds, “whosoever shall have spoken a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming one”, Matthew 12:32. What has struck me lately is the inveterate activity of the enemy to set aside, in [p. 148] one way or another, the presence and power of the Spirit here on earth.
JSG Speaking against the Spirit rendered them hopeless. Morally speaking, God, having sent the Spirit, can do nothing more.
JT So that the attack on the Spirit is all the more serious. The Lord distinguishes between speaking a word against the Son of man and speaking against the Spirit. The Spirit has been pleased to come into the lowliest of circumstances in connection with the testimony of God’s goodness to man, and so is exposed to the attack of the enemy, but there is no forgiveness for those who speak against Him.
JSG Even though man placed himself under Satan’s power, God could come in; but if man refuses that, he renders himself hopeless.
JT Following on this, the Lord deliberately refuses all natural relationships. His mother and brethren come; “Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren are standing without, seeking to speak to thee. But he answering said to him that spoke to him, Who is my mother, and who are my brethren? And, stretching out his hand to his disciples, he said, Behold my mother and my brethren; for whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother”, Matthew 12: 47 - 50. That defines the position very clearly, that those whom the Lord owns now as in relation to Him are those who do the will of His Father.
JSG A moral link. The chapter starts with the sabbath, and that was an important thing in connection with God’s covenant, and it ends with the Lord refusing to recognise any natural link. There must be now a moral link, and He would recognise nothing else.
JT Then that gives rise to chapter [p. 149] 13. He has to produce something for God where there was nothing.
JSG Really the Lord’s ministry was not to seek to find anything in man, but to sow seed for the glory of God.
JT He came in testimony among men so that it might be brought to light that there was nothing there. The earlier chapters bring this before us. There was nothing for God, and so He takes the place of a Sower so as to produce something.
JSG I think the presentation of the Lord in the chapter as a Sower is a very important point. A prophet came to recall the people, but the Lord takes the place of a Sower. There was seed to sow which would produce fruit that would be for God’s pleasure and glory.
JT I have heretofore wondered why the kingdom in Matthew is presented first in chapter 13, and again developed after chapter 16, and it occurs to me that the kingdom in chapter 13 is connected with the Lord directly; it is what He brings to pass, and the corruption that ensues is the result of the antagonism of the enemy to the Lord personally. The Lord’s enemy sows the tares, and the result is corruption. Whereas the parables of the kingdom after chapter 16 connect it with human administration. In chapter 16 the assembly being introduced, the Lord says to Peter, “I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven”. Matthew 16:19. Peter could not administer the kingdom here unless he had the assembly, that against which the gates of hell could not prevail, as it were, to support it.
Ques What is the connection between the church and the kingdom?
JT The connection, as I see it, is that the kingdom in its present form depends on the presence of the assembly here. In a sense, the relation of the assembly to the kingdom is analogous to the Lord’s [p. 150] relation to it when He was down here. The existence of the kingdom depended on His presence here. Now the Spirit is here in the assembly, and so we have the kingdom.
JSG And would you not say that while that is true morally the assembly is inside the kingdom?
JT Yes. It is a narrower circle, but the Spirit’s power is in it. The kingdom is dependent on the assembly in a way, in the sense in which a kingdom is dependent on its capital. Take Rome the empire began with the city, and that may be taken as a figure. Things work out from the capital. Looking at it from the opposite point of view, the capital is supported by the power of the kingdom, but at the same time vitality is in the city — the assembly.
JSG That will be the principle throughout the world to come. Everything will go out from the centre. But while everything will go out from the centre, of course all will revert to the centre.
JT The presence of the kingdom here depends on the presence of the assembly here. The assembly is the vessel of the Spirit. It is built by the Lord on a sure foundation (Himself), and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it.
RSS Why is the expression “kingdom of heaven” found exclusively in Matthew?
JT In most of the writings to the Jewish Christians heaven is prominent, and for the reason that naturally their affections would be centred on what had been established in relation to the earth.
RSS The idea was to draw them away from that.
JT Yes.
EJW In that connection it is significant that in Luke, which is written for Gentiles, it is the kingdom of God. Gentiles needed specially to be led into the knowledge of God.
JT Take the light in Genesis 1:3, “And God [p. 151] said, Let there be light and there was light”. It does not say there what the light was, or whence it came. The necessity for the light existed, and God commanded the light. Christ here on earth was the light. When a man is in darkness, he needs light; what kind of light it may be is not the point for the moment. But on the fourth day of Genesis 1 two great lights are made and placed in the heavens; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser to rule the night; showing, I think, that when God has established His order, the source of light and rule is in the heavens. I think that corresponds with the teaching of the kingdom in Matthew.
JB You take that in a moral way.
JT I have no doubt at all that Genesis 1 indicates the work of God in man’s soul; so that on the fourth day in the experience of your soul you come to recognise a great light in the heavens, and it regulates everything. The lights were to be for signs and for seasons. I think that points to Christ in heaven. We must look to Him for the introduction of eras and seasons, not to developments here on earth. What is in the heavens regulates everything. You can never understand prophecy by developments existing at the present moment.
JB Is there not more thought of the Spirit of God in the kingdom of God than in the kingdom of heaven?
JT As we have been saying, in this gospel the kingdom of God is connected with the activity of the Spirit — the kingdom of heaven clearly points to rule being established in heaven.
EJW It is interesting to see that when the Spirit of God presents the truth to people He presents it as adapted to their state of mind and soul. The Jew needed the truth of the kingdom presented to him in a certain form adapted to his form of thought. He was attached to the earth, but God would elevate [p. 152] his thoughts to heaven and what was to be exercised and administered by Christ from heaven. But the Gentile was sunk in darkness and ignorance of God, and the gospel by Luke is written especially for the Gentile; what becomes prominent there is the kingdom of God. God came near to man so that He might be known by man.
JSG Which is necessary for us to learn first?
JT I think it is the kingdom of God, because that is what man requires primarily. He is suffering from the power of evil, and the kingdom of God delivers him. It is subsequent to that that he discovers that he has need of a guiding light in heaven.
JSG That is clear. The first thing he must know is deliverance from the kingdom of darkness.
RSS I suppose the reason the kingdom is established at all is in view of the satanic power that exists.
J .T. I think so. The passage quoted in chapter 12 shows clearly that it is the Stronger than he that enters into the strong man’s house to spoil his goods. That shows it was because of the presence of the power of Satan that the necessity for the kingdom arose.
EJW When you see that, it is easy to understand that the announcement of the kingdom is gospel — it is good news.
JB God coming out in grace and power.
EJW What came out was not only that there was grace, but there was power in activity corresponding to the grace, to set aside the power of evil by which man was dominated.
JB I was thinking of the Acts; the Lord spoke to the disciples the things concerning the kingdom of God.
JSG To return to the parable of the sower; there you get largely the ministry of Christ here on earth.
JT [p. 153] I think so; the first three parables connect the introduction of the kingdom with the Lord’s work. The three closing parables (these were spoken in the house to the disciples) have reference to the assembly.
JSG Leaving out the parable of the sower, the Lord, in the next three, gives a sketch of what the kingdom would be outwardly; and then in the next two, what the Lord finds dear to His heart; and in the last parable, what is the great service at the present time. The servant has to get the good fish out from the bad, and to prepare them for shipment as it were. They have no place in this present world.
JT Leaving aside for the moment the corrupting influence of the devil, the production of such a thing as the kingdom in this chapter is a wonderful thing. The Son of man sows and all this comes to pass as the result.
JSG People often say what is the good of the subject of the kingdom? That is because there is undue occupation with the way it is presented in the first four parables here; and forgetting that there is the true thing, as seen in the last three, which is dear to the heart of Christ. The important point of the chapter is the last three parables.
JT If you did not have the last three you would be hopeless, because you have a leavened mass, and an overshadowing tree which could not be of God. The last three are the secret; they were spoken only to the disciples.
JSG In connection with the leavened mass, is not important to remember that leaven is not necessarily what men would look upon as something wicked? It is largely the thought of the human element working. What has really corrupted God’s things is not what is outwardly so bad, but the mind of man working in divine things, giving a human colour to [p. 154] what is of God.
EJW One set of parables here gives us what is under man’s eye, and the other what is under God’s eye, and the important thing is to have before us what is under God’s eye. What is under man’s eye is a great formal system, but what is under God’s eye is that which is of Himself.
JT And that is where the encouragement lies. The disciples would be the interested ones, and we can only hope that there are disciples at the present time who are interested; by such, the ministry of the truth of the assembly is always appreciated. There are a great many amongst God’s people who have very little ear for it, but the encouraging point of the chapter is that there is the vital and valuable thing, and the Lord speaks of that to the disciples in the house.
WHF Does not that constitute the kingdom under the eye of God? The genuine thing exists at the present moment.
JT Yes. Mr. Stoney used to dwell on these three closing parables; I recall reading his remarks as to how little they were understood. It is only interested souls that get light about the assembly.
GFW Is there any way in which these three closing parables typify the remnant of the Jews, or is it the present period?
JT It is the present period. This chapter is the beginning of the new order of things which the Lord has inaugurated by sowing; but what He sowed resulted in a huge public thing in which there is nothing outwardly to indicate that it is of God. In the beginning of the chapter it says, “And great crowds were gathered together to him, so that going on board ship himself he sat down, and the whole crowd stood on the shore”, Matthew 13:2, Taking up a position on the sea would indicate that He was having to do with the whole of humanity.
GFW Would the last three parables indicate [p. 155] that the kingdom goes on to the end, including the remnant of Israel?
JT It is the history of the kingdom during the time of the Lord’s absence that is in view, but the results lead on to “the completion of the age”, and hence the remnant is involved. Those who select the fish taken in the net are concerned only with the good; the angels deal with the wicked. The Son of man sends His angels, and they take out of His kingdom things which offend. The kingdom goes on, but the offending things are removed.
JSG The period goes on to the public manifestation in more than one instance in the chapter, but those that form the assembly are really the saints (”the righteous”) that are spoken of. The explanation of the parable of the net has reference to the future, but the parable itself is for the present, and contains a word for us. We are to be occupied with the good.
JT It would not be characteristic of Matthew to introduce the heavenly side, because with him it is a question of the continuance of the government of God here in the absence of Christ. We know from other scriptures that the assembly will actually be removed before the Lord appears; and so, the kingdom out of which the wicked are taken, is connected with others. The kingdom is established in Christ in heaven; His being made Lord has reference to all the earth; and His rule, once inaugurated, does not cease until its end is reached. So the Revelation may be inserted here as showing how the scene is cleared of evil when the kingdom appears publicly. What God sets up never passes away, although it may change its character.
JSG The kingdom here is spoken of like the world in John; what is not of God goes out. Christ must become the centre for all, or else they must [p. 156] disappear.
JT In Revelation 10 Christ claims all below. At the present time men claim the earth, but the testimony is that all is Christ’s, and the assembly bears testimony to this fact at the present moment.
JSG We bear testimony by not being overcome by the world, but by overcoming. The world is ours, but the danger is of our being possessed by the world.
RSS I suppose the beginning of the next chapter would show that someone else than Christ was in authority; that is, Herod.
JT It was a sign to the Lord, “And Jesus, having heard it, went away thence by ship to a desert place apart”, Matthew 14: 13. It is not the nation here, but the power of Herod, the false king.
Before we pass from chapter 13, we might look at what the Lord said about the scribe instructed into the kingdom of heaven; “every scribe discipled to the kingdom of the heavens is like a man that is a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old”, Matthew 13:52. One feels one would like to be that. A man of this kind is very interesting. If you have any taste for “things new and old” he can interest you from his treasure.
RSS What are old things?
JT Things that have relation to Israel. All are now found in a man that, is discipled to the kingdom of the heavens.
WHF “New” would refer to Christianity.
JSG In chapter 14 we are taught that they find everything in the Person of Christ.
JT It is a question of education in view of chapter 16. No believer is equal to the truth of the assembly unless he goes through, in his experience, chapters 14 and 15. I think that the first thing we learn is the sufficiency of Christ; that is important if you are going to be here in testimony. The disciples say, “send the multitude away”, but the Lord says, “They need not depart; give ye them to eat” Matthew 14:16. So in result it comes out that the Lord is able to make the loaves and fishes suffice for the multitude.
JSG “Give ye them”.
GFW What is the significance of the five loaves — human weakness?
JT I think five is symbolical of what is small; “I had rather speak five words with my understanding ... than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue”, 1 Corinthians 14:19 The Lord puts the obligation on them. The Lord is anticipating. As if He were saying. ‘I am going away, and you are going to be here, and you have to learn that you are to help men’.
JSG There was abundance because God was with them, though they were weak as far as they were concerned.
JT This gospel insists on what the saints should be, and what they should do, in the absence of Christ. This miracle was to instruct them as to how they might depend on Him in seeking to administer for Him in His absence. However little we may have, the Lord is able to make it abound. They had five loaves and two fishes, and the five thousand were fed, and there were twelve baskets left over.
TA Do the twelve baskets set forth the twelve tribes?
JT I suppose they set forth the abundance of administration. I take twelve as symbolic of administrative power in man.
JSG It is well to compare the two feedings, here and in chapter 15. I have taken the first to refer more to the beginning, to the twelve apostles. I have thought that the second feeding sets forth how the Lord can come in in a divine way, though everything in connection with man may break up. The seven baskets in chapter 15 were larger baskets. In the early days there were twelve apostles; a wonderful [p. 158] moment! Now we have none, but the Lord shows in the second feeding that there is no change with Him. He comes in and cares for men’s souls.
JT And I have no doubt that the seven baskets in chapter 15 point to the perfection of the Spirit’s power remaining here.
I suppose the next lesson that comes to light in this chapter is the Lord going on high. “And immediately he compelled the disciples to go on board ship, and to go on before him to the ether side, until he should have dismissed the crowds. And having dismissed the crowds, he went up into the mountain apart to pray”, Matthew 14: 22. It is a very great thing to see that the Lord is on high for us, for we must bear in mind that all the way through it is a matter of souls being fitted for the testimony. It is not a matter of feeding the disciples, but rather that they should learn how to feed others. Now they are going to encounter rough seas. The Lord says as it were, ‘This is what you will meet with when I am not here. You will have to do things when I leave and I want to show you how to do them. Now you are going to encounter rough seas, and I am going on high and I shall be praying for you’. The mountain indicates the Lord’s present position in relation to those who are contending with the winds and waves.
JSG The secret of their success would be unseen.
JT Yes. This chapter is not simply for ministers and preachers, but for those who are to form the assembly as the pillar and base of the truth.
JSG In Scripture are not all God’s people spoken of as servants? Speaking of certain people as servants exclusively has done a lot of harm amongst us.
JT I never feel free to call myself one as distinct [p. 159] from other saints.
WHF The fourth watch indicates His coming to Israel.
JT And what comes to light is that He is recognised by them. In chapter 11 He speaks of Himself as the Son, but now they recognise Him. “Truly thou art God’s Son”. Matthew 14:33.
GFW Do those in the boat typify the remnant?
JT Yes. The boat was fitted for the water; that was Judaism; but the Lord was in a new position. He was outside of Israel, but superior to all the power of evil. He is outside the whole order of things in connection with this world, and Peter joins Him there. Peter represents the affection in which the assembly is formed.
WHF I was thinking that the fourth watch is connected with Israel. The third watch would be the one in which the Morning Star appears, and is more connected with Christ coming for the assembly. The Lord divided the present period into four watches — even, midnight, cock crowing and morning; so the fourth watch evidently refers to Christ’s public coming.
GFW Would it be that Peter going to the Lord on the water represents the moral action of the saints at the present time?
JT It represents the soul who has affection for Christ, and as seeing Him outside of everything here, but superior to it, wishes to be with Him. “Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee”. Matthew 14:28. The Lord going into the ship, no doubt, refers to His coming to the remnant, so that at the end He is known to them as Son of God. But Peter had an experience which those who remained in the ship did not have.
RSS What would be in their mind when they said, “Of a truth thou art the Son of God”? Matthew 14:33.
JT I suppose what had been indicated in the Old Testament that Messiah should be God’s Son. Nathanael recognised Him as Son of God. The confession is not — ‘Thou art the Son of the living God’ (that was a distinctive revelation from the Father), but “Thou art the Son of God”. John 1:49. Seeing Him superior to the elements of opposition induced the confession.
EJW That was one idea connected with the title Son of God — His absolute superiority to all the powers of evil here. In Romans 1:4 He is “marked out Son of God in power ... by resurrection of the dead”.
GWH Was it the thought of Peter that he wished to be superior to everything here?
JT What we see in Peter is affection for Christ, and that is what one would like to see in everyone. “Bid me come unto thee”. Matthew 14:28. There was affection and there was confidence. Peter felt the Lord could support him. Be the circumstances what they may, you want to be with Him.
RSS What do the waters signify?
JT I think they signify men dominated by the powers of evil. I think the boat is in the midst of that which is unfriendly, and is capable of being affected by what is against Christ — the winds. The winds suggest satanic power; they were contrary. Who was contrary to Christ? Chapter 13 shows that Satan is: “An enemy hath done this”. Matthew 13:28. He does something to nullify what Christ does. And those in the ship were Christ’s disciples, and He was praying for them; but Satan was against them, and so the boat was tossed by the waves.
RSS Then the wind acts on the water; that is, on man, on people.
JT Through them opposition comes. The beasts of the field do not harm the people of God specially.
RSS The question has been asked as to what was the character of the distance between Peter and the Lord.
JT I think the Lord left the disciples in the [p. 161] boat. He did not take them out of Judaism in His dying; but in the power of the Spirit they should leave it afterwards to join Him in resurrection. I doubt not but that the boat was the order of things that had been established, that fitted into the mass of humanity, but the Lord had left that through death and took up a new place in resurrection as superior to satanic power, and the disciples had to learn that they were to join Him there. Historically this never came out fully till Acts 9.
RSS Was not the Lord there figuratively superior to death, and have we not to join Him beyond death?
JT That is true, but the question is what the water symbolises; I think it is that which Satan can act on, and what we have to overcome.
JSG It is important to notice that at first Peter did not look at the water but at Christ. When he looks at the water he begins to sink.
TA If you look at Christ, you can walk on the water.
JT The apprehension of Christ as Son of God enables us to abandon whatever we may have been depending upon in this world. Henceforth we live by faith, the faith of the Son of God.
WHC In the thought of the ship and the Lord walking on the water, do you get the idea of the old order and the new?
JT I think so. Judaism was the old order, but Jesus was leaving this to take up a new position in resurrection. Judaism was an enclosure that fitted in among the nations, but these could be influenced and used against the saints. The Acts show this clearly.
EJW Judaism afforded a measure of protection for those who were in it, against certain evils practised among the heathen: idolatry, depravity, etc.
LTF Does the boat represent that for [p. 162] the Jew?
JSG I think the boat is connected with the remnant.
AC Supposing one left the boat and went forward to join Christ, would not all the power of the enemy used against us mean death to us, unless He put forth His hand and drew us to His side?
JT It would, no doubt.
EJW Moral death, as represented in masses of men capable, as apart from Christ, of being influenced by the enemy.
RSS The Lord becomes the attracting power that draws us, and that is the main point. According to what is natural, we gravitate downward, but we have found another attraction which counteracts that.
JT How complete the deliverance was in the case of Saul of Tarsus when the Son of God was revealed to him! He never went back to the boat afterwards.
LTF Is that like going forth to Him without the camp?
JT In a way, “bearing his reproach”. Hebrews 13:13. But I think the point to be learned in this chapter is that the Lord is outside of all here, and He has become of interest to your soul. You may not be outside of all, but you would like to be with Christ. The consequences may be terrible, but affection says, “If it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water”; and the Lord says, “Come”. Matthew 14:28,29.
WHF It is like the two disciples in John 1. “Where dwellest thou?” They want to be with Him.
EJW On the other hand the consequences set forth in Peter are very blessed. Peter enters into the sense of victory and supremacy with Christ. This sets forth Christianity in a very wonderful way, and in a way we do not know much about.
JT I do not know that there is any [p. 163] experience so precious as the experience of knowing Christ as sustaining you in superiority to every adverse power.
W.H.C. Is it priesthood?
JT That is what it is.
GFW Would walking in separation today answer to that in a practical way?
JT Yes. You find the antagonism of Satan all the time if you are true to Christ. Affection induces separation. The heart is separate on account of Christ being away. You must be separate from that from which He is separated. The real point here is, “Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water”. Matthew 14:28. Then the Lord shows how you will be supported. You can hardly explain how it happens, but it does happen.
RSS “There hath one object been disclosed on earth that might commend the place; but now ’tis gone: Jesus is with the Father”.