READING 2 KINGS THREE
[p. 325] READING 2 KINGS THREE
RSS For those not here this morning we might say that the subject suggested for our readings was “The Establishment of the Reign of Grace”, as set forth in the second book of Kings.
JT In order that we may see the position of Elisha it may be well perhaps to revert a little to chapter 2 again; I refer to the journey he took from Jordan to Samaria. It says, “From thence he returned to Samaria” 2 Kings 2:25; the chapter presents to us Elisha in Samaria, which, I think, spiritually is the scene of testimony. I believe that whilst Elisha represents the spirit of Christ active here in grace, we may also see in him that discipline that marked the vessels of the testimony. He has to traverse the whole journey taken by Elijah and himself, only in the reverse way. He went from Jericho to Bethel, from Bethel to Mount Carmel and from Mount Carmel to Samaria. These afford additional instruction as to the vessel, or vessels, in which the testimony of the gospel was rendered historically.
RSS You speak of discipline. How does discipline come in?
JT In the education of the believer; before he is properly equipped for testimony, he has to visit each of these places experimentally. But then one would speak of it in a very general way, as connected with the presentation of the gospel historically; but these points had to be touched in order that the vessel should be qualified. Samaria was the scene, we might say, in which the king’s influence was felt, and that was adverse. There Elisha’s ministry was to be carried out. The little maid who carried the message to Naaman, chapter 5, said, “Would God my lord [p. 326] were with the prophet that is in Samaria! for he would recover him of his leprosy” 2 Kings 5:3. She seemed to have an intelligent apprehension of the location of the testimony.
JP That is what you meant when you spoke of Samaria as the scene or sphere of the testimony?
Ques Would you say a little more as to the soul visiting these spots experimentally?
JT I think that Jericho points to the place of the curse, which is now reversed; and Beth-el is evidently God’s house; and Carmel signifies the place of fruitfulness. It is very easy to see the application of these in the believer’s case. Samaria, we have been seeing, is the place where the enemy’s influence was, and there Elisha repaired; he went to Samaria.
Ques Is there any connection between that and our Lord’s going through Samaria? “He must needs go through Samaria”. John 4:4.
JT I would rather connect it with Peter’s position in Acts 2. The testimony was rendered in the very spot where the enemy’s power was most felt; where Satan’s power had arisen to its height, there the testimony was rendered by a qualified vessel.
JP I think that we must take all these things in their moral and spiritual bearing and application. I believe that is what comes out in the chapter that has been read.
JT Yes, I think chapter 3 shows the extent of the grace that is presented; that is, the kings of Israel, Judah and Edom are allied together — a most unholy alliance, which merited God’s wrath; instead, God intervenes in grace. So that a set of conditions is presented that offers to God an opportunity to exhibit the extent of His grace.
JP The prophet said to the king of Israel that if it were not that he regarded the presence of [p. 327] Jehoshaphat, the king of Judah, he would not look toward him, nor see him.
JT Under the ministry of Elijah the same kind of combination brought down judgment.
JP If you ever get the idea of grace at the expense of righteousness you have the wrong thought.
JT Elisha’s remark in regard to the king of Israel maintains what you say. God’s rights were really transgressed by him. He had no claim on the prophet. But there was one in the combination whom God would recognise — that is Jehoshaphat.
JP Elisha said, “Were it not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat the king of Judah I would not look toward thee, nor see thee”. 2 Kings 3:14.
JT I connect it in my mind with the conditions in which the gospel was announced. There was that which God abhorred, but mixed up with that there was the fruit of God’s sovereign work, and this He had respect to, and the deliverance comes in in that connection. In the book of Chronicles we are told that there was something good found in Jehoshaphat; this was not of nature but of God; still he was in an unholy alliance. Now in the ministry of Elijah that was reproved, but in the ministry of Elisha nothing is said of it — that which is good in Jehoshaphat is recognised. He on his part, recognised the vessel of the testimony (Elisha); he discovered where the word of God was. God on His part, recognises Jehoshaphat.
Ques Would you say Jehoshaphat had departed from the path of righteousness?
JT The point here is the magnitude of God’s grace.
JP And in connection with that we have to take account of the fact that Elijah had ascended and Elisha had a double portion of his spirit here, and he had come back all that wonderful reverse journey, so that even this combination presents no barrier to [p. 328] the wonderful display of grace; and yet what the prophet says shows that nothing escapes the notice of God. God takes account of it, but He wonderfully demonstrates His independence, so to speak, upon any temporary failure or breakdown on the part of His people. Elijah has gone up and a man is here with a double portion of his spirit, and he has Elijah’s mantle. Jehoshaphat says the word of the Lord is with him, showing that Jehoshaphat is a man of discernment. He knows the word of Jehovah is with the prophet.
JT The great thing to see in any scripture is what God sets forth in it; here there is no doubt that God would present the magnitude of His grace. No condition, however, can hinder the display of His grace. He surmounts every barrier that man can raise up.
Rem And He takes the initiative irrespective of conditions.
JT In Acts 2, while Peter maintains what is due to God in regard to man’s sin; that is, the people had sinned in crucifying Christ, nevertheless, Christ is there for all.
Rem God is going to bless in spite of man.
JT In spite of the fact that “the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth”. Genesis 8:21.
Rem It would not hinder Him now from blessing on the ground of the burnt offering, Genesis 8:20 - 22.
JT Notice the twentieth verse here: in the morning, when the meat offering was offered, deliverance came; that is, in acting thus in grace, God is acting consistently with His nature.
JP Because He was acting in connection with the Man who was ever to His perfect pleasure and delight down here, and who is now in His presence; so that now you could not set any bounds to His grace; there are no bounds, no limits whatever, and the sphere of the enemy’s power becomes the proper [p. 329] sphere for the display of that grace. Samaria is the place.
JT In the proclamation of the gospel, God is occupied with the Man who is represented in the meat offering, for Elisha is in the appreciation of that Man and thus in that condition we get the gospel, and unless our souls are in that line we are not in the good of the gospel.
RSS What were the special features of the meat offering?
JT It refers to the evenness of the humanity of Christ. I think it presents Christ in the entirety of His pathway on earth, according to what He was under God’s eye.
JP And the climax of that in His death. It is the meat offering. There was the mingling with oil, and then the anointing.
RSS The meat offering presents the Lord as going into death.
Rem We generally speak and hear of God coming out in the death of Christ, when atonement was made, but here it is more a question of the meat offering aspect.
JT The meat offering aspect of Christ involves His death; still atonement is not in view. It sets forth what Christ was in His infinite perfection as Man under God’s eye. I believe it would be an immense help for us to see that in Christ as Man God’s heart has found a resting place. The dove in Genesis 8 is figurative of divine love seeking a place to rest. Before Christ, the Spirit was hovering and finding no resting place. But John says, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him”. John 1:32. The heart of God has found a permanent resting place in Christ, and it is on that ground that He announces the gospel.
JP I can see that when we are prepared [p. 330] to believe that, we begin to understand how free God is now to display His grace.
JT I think that the cherubim of glory in the tabernacle in the wilderness pointed to God’s protecting hand over Christ as Man here upon earth; the Object was so precious. That which had been engaged in keeping the tree of life is now engaged in protecting the ark.
FL Did I understand you to say the meat offering included the death of Christ?
JT I think so; it goes on to that. That is where it is shown most perfectly; what He was in God’s eye came out perfectly in His death.
“He ... shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord”, Leviticus 2:2.
FL So He was tested and tried in every possible way.
JT He was the perfect Man under God’s eye from the manger to the throne — death bringing out most perfectly what He was.
Now in these kings we see the natural activity to bring about deliverance, involving an unholy alliance, and having full opportunity to accomplish this end — seven days; and yet nothing was accomplished. So that I think the side of the truth presented is the magnitude of divine grace coming in for deliverance when man had exhausted his resources.
RSS And all these people, the three kings, had some connection with the people of God, the two tribes and the ten tribes and their relatives in Edom, so that it is in the sphere of Christendom the answer to it is found.
JT Perhaps, more strictly speaking, in Israel, to speak of it historically. I think we have to go back to the beginning to see the full extent of divine grace.
FL It makes an interesting contrast with the [p. 331] scene almost parallel in 1 Kings 22 when Israel and Judah had gone up against Ramoth-gilead and where Jehoshaphat inquired for a prophet of the Lord. The point of view there is the hand of God behind it all to bring in merited judgment, and so a lying spirit was allowed so that the judgment of God could come in on all that unholy condition of things. Here, while it is almost a parallel alliance, yet it takes a different turn. I suppose the difference is seen in consequence of the ascension.
JT Yes; the death of Christ has changed things, but the rights of God are maintained in the one case as in the other. One might wonder how God maintains the consistency of His nature in acting thus, but the prophet in speaking to the king of Israel points out where he was, what he was guilty of — that the grace was not in that connection, it was not merited; but still there was something there that God had respect to. In other words, I think that God takes account of His own work among men while everything is opposed, and I think Jehoshaphat represents this.
RSS What does Edom represent in verse 20?
JT God is not acting now in connection with the official order of things. The water came by the way of Edom. It does not come in connection with the established order of things, for God is really acting on the principle of sovereignty, and the water comes in by way of Edom, not by way of Jerusalem or Samaria.
FL It is striking that the inflow of the mighty grace as represented in the water is connected with the total destruction of everything that spoke of the prosperity of man and his protection. Everything in his world plucked up, destroyed and cut down, nothing to be seen but that which spoke of the inflow of grace.
JT And it indicates the complete overthrow [p. 332] of the enemy; the springs of water were to be stopped up.
Ques Could we apply what we have in 1 Corinthians 1:29 “Bring to nought things that are; that no flesh should glory in his presence”?
JT Yes.
Ques Is the water that came by the way of Edom the Spirit?
JT Yes, but connected with the activity of grace — the abundance of it. They were to make the valley full of ditches. There was to be an opportunity for God to show the abundance of His grace.
Ques That is sovereignty?
JT Yes; it did not come by way of the established order of things.
FL It is well to see that the abundance of that grace was to come in ordered channels. There were trenches. It was magnificent in its abundance but it was ordered.
Ques You mean it was not a flood?
FL It was through channels.
Rem God is not the author of confusion.
FL And I think one has to discern in the ways of God that the Spirit of God always takes account of that.
Ques Would the Lord going outside of what was appointed, taking up the apostles, etc., point to what we have here?
FL Another example. They were to go to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the regions beyond. That is, there were channels, and as has been brought out a great deal in recent years, we must disconnect this from the church as independent, running its own course. It took the way of Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the regions beyond.
JT The country was filled with water. It all goes to show the magnitude of grace. So that if we keep that before us we shall see the import of what [p. 333] God is setting forth in this vessel as based upon the previous chapter. You can see readily that the water was sufficient for the host gathered there and for all — the country was filled with water.
FL Do you think it brings out another point — a savour of life unto life?
JT You get that in the Moabites; what was life to one was death to another. Here it is not a river such as we get in Ezekiel, flowing out beneath the altar. The ditches are digged by the people and then you get the abundance of water.
FL The river will flow out after the church is gone.
JT If you go through the Acts you will see how the magnitude of divine grace was evidenced on every hand.
JP When you come to the ministry of Elisha it is the excess of grace. The occasion of this was that there was no water for the horses and the cattle, that is the occasion; but when grace acts it is not simply enough water for them and for the host, but the whole country is filled with water.
JT You can hardly say that now.
JP It was so in the beginning.
JT If God singles out a set of circumstances to exhibit the magnitude of His grace they do not necessarily correspond with the circumstances of our day.
Ques What do you mean by that — the circumstances of the present time?
JT I do not think you get ditches now such as there were at the beginning. Things are hampered and clogged so that there is a scarcity of water. Of course you would not be limited in preaching the gospel at any time. God is not limited.
JP And of course you would preach in the light of what we see here.
FL I think we are privileged to dig; the water [p. 334] is of the same order and quality, and in a sense, the same fulness; but the ditches are clogged, and so its flow is hampered.
JT You can always issue the invitation “Whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely” Revelation 22:17; but here the grace is at its height, so that the whole place is filled with water.
Rem You have to take into account the condition of the vessel in relation to the gospel.
JT Yes. You mean that you have to go back to the beginning to see the conditions under which the magnitude of divine grace came in. There were conditions not only in heaven but also on earth. The ditches here were as channels through which the grace flowed.
FL At the same time we would not want to be hampered in setting forth the gospel, because we are entitled to take it up in the fulness of it as on God’s side. I quite believe that the channels have become blocked, but the quality is unchanged, the order is unchanged.
RSS Is it not important to take account of what our brother spoke of? — the two circumstances, and how they differ; that is, when Jehoshaphat entered into a similar alliance before, he narrowly escaped, but here there is no condemnation on God’s part; He comes in grace and they all receive blessing. I think that in Christendom today you find that because God grants blessing men think the associations they may be in are all right. We know from the other scripture referred to that an unholy alliance met greatly with God’s disapproval, and if it had not been for God’s intervention Jehoshaphat would have been killed.
JT God acts in spite of conditions.
RSS People say God is giving blessing here and things are all right; whereas you may have a [p. 335] feeling that things are not right, and it is in spite of them God is giving blessing.
FL Talking to a man I said, Suppose you could get a crowd of people in the Roman Catholic Church, would you speak to them? He said, Yes. I think there was no sense of the unholiness of the alliance.
Ques Is not the gospel today more Timothy’s line of things; more in the way of instructing people? People generally know the terms of the gospel as well as you do, and they all take the ground of Christian profession.
JT We should keep clearly before souls the magnitude of God’s grace. We need to have our hearts established in grace. We need to have an apprehension of God as having come out in the gospel, and I do not know of a passage that sets it forth more perfectly than this — conditions so adverse to divine order, and yet we see God coming in in a most remarkable way for deliverance.
Rem God at the present time is acting more on the line of sovereignty in the way of blessing. The vessel of testimony has wholly failed.
JT You cannot argue that because you get blessing in places, the association in which it may be found is thereby vindicated; because God is good and works sovereignly, whereas the setting forth of the glad tidings from the beginning was in a regular order. The light came to the Gentiles through an appointed vessel. The Lord had appointed a vessel before He died and no other mouth should declare the truth to the Gentiles except Peter, indicating that the Lord’s rights are seen in the proclamation of the glad tidings.
RSS You refer now to the case of Cornelius?
JT “The Gentiles by my mouth ..”. (Acts 15:7) Peter says. His was the definitely appointed mouth.
JP I thought that the modern system of evangelism is an attempt to make the valley full of [p. 336] ditches; there is a great deal of trouble in making ditches, but the water does not fill the country. Of course the thing that God established in the outset of Christianity was not an experiment; but the conditions that existed then do not exist now. The ditches are opened up by divine appointment, so they are all filled; the whole country is filled with water.
Ques You would say the important thing is to go by the Scriptures?
JP Yes, and you have to go back and see, because the seeing of all these things involves the knowledge of God; and it is only as you come to know God that you get an apprehension of these wonderful things. And it is important that we should be in the light of all that God has appointed and established, because this will preserve us from any human expedients and arrangements in regard to things. In view of the present state of things you must be content to serve in a quiet way.
Ques I would like a little said about the ditches being open now. The young may not understand this.
JP Well, I think if any younger brothers feel called in the direction of preaching the gospel, if they enter into it with all godly sincerity and earnestness, they will soon find out things for themselves. This chapter is to set forth the magnitude of the grace of God — how boundless it is; and its display is superior to the most adverse conditions. The king of Israel represents an element of unbelief. He says, “Alas! that the Lord hath called these three kings together, to deliver them into the hand of Moab” 2 Kings 3:10; whereas, what was marking the moment was grace and deliverance in the overthrow of the enemy.
Yet here is a man so far away from the light that he can only see that the enemy is going to sweep the whole scene. He is the element of unbelief, and that [p. 337] is resented by the prophet. Elisha is in contrast with the king of Israel. One would have entire sympathy with young brethren who have a heart for the Lord and would seek to make known in any little way the glad tidings. One would not discourage that, but one would seek to convey some intelligence to them with regard to the present state of things. I think young brothers have been damaged by being thrust out into service by older ones without regard to the altered state of things. Not that there is any change in the order of divine administration.
JT You have to distinguish between grace as an abstract thing and what is concrete; that is, the water. God remains ever what He is. His attitude today toward men is what it was in the beginning. There is no change in that respect, but there is change in the vessel in which the Spirit sets it forth practically. We ought to make a difference in the attitude of God as seen in the prophet here, and the water itself. The country was filled with water. The grace of God was there before the water. The water only proves the grace. The grace of God is unchanged and it is still on the throne. “The grace of God that bringeth salvation”. Titus 2:11.
Ques Would you say the witness was changed?
JT Yes; the vessel in which the tangible blessing flowed has altered, and therefore the means of relief is limited; but grace is still on the throne, and will remain on the throne until the end of the dispensation.
JP While a man preaches in the face of these conditions he can preach all the good things. You cannot say a better thing than “Whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely”. Revelation 22:17.
Rem That is it. The failure has been on the part of the church and individuals, and not on God’s part.
JT In the measure in which any individual travels the pathway Elisha took after Elijah ascended, he becomes a vessel of [p. 338] grace.
FL I think anyone who has a heart for the Lord can go out with a great deal of confidence, but it depends upon the standpoint on which he is going out. If the standpoint is that he is going to save souls from hell, he will find more or less embarrassment but if it is in the light of the body of Christ, with the desire that souls should find their place, then he is with God in what He is doing. Thus God is with him. Everyone who preaches ought to have a clear sense in his own soul of the body of Christ, because then when he speaks to souls he is speaking in view of that and getting them into their place.
JT When grace is on the throne one has the utmost confidence. The throne is absolute, and grace remains there to the end of the dispensation. So that one need not be in the least hampered in preaching. Still the country is not filled with water, and I think, perhaps, that is the distinction that is to be made. The evidence of grace may not be so apparent; you have the light of it, however.
Ques What would you make of the statement in John 7:38 “He that believeth on me ... out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water”?
J .T. It is one believing really in Christ glorified. It holds good now.
FL The point of view we have here is ascension, and the consequence holds good.
JT It will hold good while the Holy Spirit is here. But then the country is filled with water here. The water is the evidence of the grace, not the grace itself; instead of judgment you have an abundance of water.
JP In the early chapters of Acts you get that evidenced.
FL The evidence of grace was universal.
JP Wherever the ditch was dug it got filled with water. They dug one in Samaria and it was filled with [p. 339] water.
Ques You place the antitype of this at Pentecost?
JT Yes, and what followed.
Ques What do you understand by the Moabites looking upon the water and it appearing blood unto them?
JT It was a portent of judgment to the enemy. What is life to one is death to another. There is life-giving power to those who believe, and judgment to those who do not.
Ques Something like the Red Sea?
JT Yes; the Egyptians were overthrown in that which was deliverance to the people of God.
Ques What is the great hindrance to the activity of the Spirit?
JT It is the condition of the vessel; paralysis has taken place, so that there is not the same evidence of vitality in the church that there was at the outset; but this does not interfere with the principle of grace. Grace is, in a sense, an abstract thought. It is on the throne, and it marks the attitude of God in Christ. God is not now demanding, but giving. In preaching you keep clearly in your soul that grace reigns. This book is a great type of it. I should not be free to preach at all if I did not believe that the elements of deliverance are here.
FL Not a question of quality, but of degree.
JT It is a fact that every thoughtful person can see for himself.
JP It is an immense thing to have in one’s soul the apprehension and sense that grace is on the throne, because then you are not discouraged on the one hand, and, on the other hand, you are not frightened by the opposition of the enemy. Some are frightened and some discouraged, but if one really has made this reverse journey which Elisha makes in his soul’s history, there will be neither fear nor discouragement.
JT What I had distinctly before me in [p. 340] this chapter was that we might see the magnitude of the grace.
RSS And it is remarkable that the ministry of Elisha occurs amidst the ten tribes, where there had been more departure from God.
JT It comes in after the ministry of Elijah, which marks the complete breakdown of the ten tribes.
Now the Moabites make a tremendous effort here to recover lost ground. I was thinking of the energy with which they endeavoured to break through unto the king of Edom, ending with the king offering up his eldest son. That is the religious spirit connected with the enemy’s power, but of no avail. We have to see all this, so as to have an idea of the power of God that was active in the beginning.
Ques Do you not see the ministry of Elijah and Elisha connected with the ten tribes? Does that not magnify the grace of God? He was there to care for His people, although they had departed from the testimony. They had disconnected themselves from Jerusalem.
JT Jehoshaphat’s sphere here was limited. He had no business at all to enter upon the territory of the ten tribes. When God limits the sphere of His people they ought to accept it.
Ques Do you think there is a line of thought here for our guidance today?
JT We see today men going to the heathen, as if the commission to the apostles referred to them, the church being in order. David and Solomon had a perfect right to go into the territory of the ten tribes, but God had limited the territory of Jehoshaphat.
JP I meant that. They are ignoring the fact that limitations have been imposed. Nothing affects the throne, which is absolute; but I feel that a great many do not accept the limitations.
[p. 341] Rem I have a feeling, personally, about missions to the Jews. I have never thought it was right, and yet I never was satisfied in regard to it.
JT I think the last chapter of Acts helps on that point. The apostle there definitely states to the leaders of the Jews that the salvation of God was sent to the Gentiles and they would receive it. The Jews left him. I think what Christendom exhibits is the constant activity of man’s mind; divine order is set aside.
Ques I was wondering whether what has been referred to would increase the test for us as to our service?
JT It does. You discern that God has placed divine limitations about you and that you do not want to break through divine barriers. It was marked enough that God had drawn a line between the ten tribes and the two; but the house of God was with the latter. Still the limitations were judicial.
JP I think one can say this — that you will find the largest, fullest and best gospel with those who accept these divine restrictions, and not anywhere else. That is a remarkable thing.
JT Certainly. You get priestly and Levitical service among them.
JP What frightens many young brothers sometimes is that they feel if they accept these restrictions practically it would somewhat minify the gospel. Not at all. Really a great deal that is called gospel one could hardly recognise.