READING MATTHEW 25
[p. 228] READING MATTHEW 25
JT The phase of the kingdom presented here evidently turns on the Lord’s coming, so that our thoughts are directed rather to the end of things than to the beginning. The other parables, particularly that on which we dwelt this morning in chapter 22 had reference, in the main, to the beginning of things.
RSS Is this the last likeness to the kingdom that we get in the gospel?
JT Yes, except the parable of the talents, beginning in verse 14. Then the following section in the chapter shows the end of things, that is, the Son of man coming in His glory to adjust matters here on earth. That would give us the ending up of the kingdom in responsibility.
WHC When you say the Lord’s coming, do you mean the rapture?
JT It is more the Bridegroom. “Behold the bridegroom”. Matthew 25:6. “Cometh” ought not to be there, but it involves His coming, and that would be His public appearing. “Behold, the bridegroom; go forth to meet him”. Matthew 25:6.
JB What is the thought of the Bridegroom; the meaning of the term?
JT “He that hath the bride is the bridegroom”, John 3:29. I think it is a term of distinction. When the bride appears, she enhances the glory of the Bridegroom. He must be a wonderful personage who has such a bride. So I think the point in Revelation in introducing the bride is not to make her conspicuous; she is introduced as the bride, the Lamb’s wife. The term Lamb signifies the Lord’s reproach here; He was the suffering One. I think the introduction of the holy city as His wife is to show how great the Lamb is. The Bridegroom here [p. 229] doubtless corresponds with the Lamb in Revelation. The Bridegroom is announced so that there should be affection awakened. “Behold, the bridegroom; go ye out to meet him”. Matthew 25:6. Any reference to the bride during the Lord’s ministry on earth would have Israel or Jerusalem in view.
JB The real point in the bride in the Revelation is that the Bridegroom is set forth in her.
JT Rather that she is His wife. First, “his wife hath made herself ready” Revelation 19:7. “I will show thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife”, Revelation 21:9. I think that is the point. She is the Lamb’s wife, and then we get the perfections brought forward. You might read it as having in your mind the greatness of this bride, but the point is really that this bride is the Lamb’s bride: the bride of Him who had been in reproach and suffering.
WHC The great answer in affection to all the enmity and hatred that, as the Lamb, He had received.
JT It is, in a way, testimony to His greatness. He is accounted little in this world, but He has this wonderful bride. John the Baptist said; “He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled”, John 3:29. So that the bridegroom having the bride points to the special joy of Christ in having His people; and His friend rejoices with Him. But the bride is not apparent here. The point is the Bridegroom.
WHF What would be the present application of the truth of it? Does the parable set forth christian profession, that is, the wise and foolish virgins?
JT Yes, I think what the parable presents is the affection begotten, in the saints at the beginning, by the gospel. Affection for the Bridegroom was begotten, for it says, “Then shall the kingdom of [p. 230] heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom”. Matthew 25:1. That is, there was a going forth to meet Christ, so that it was evident that the kingdom in this particular phase has in it affection for Christ, seen in the virgins going forth to meet Him. That is what they did at the beginning, but “while the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept”. Matthew 25:5.
WHF Then what is the midnight?
JT That would point to a particular period since the departure of the Bridegroom when there was a cry. It does not refer evidently to the testimony of His return at the beginning. It refers to a testimony that came in at some particular juncture of the period that has elapsed since the Lord’s departure. The Spirit of God has raised the cry: “Behold, the bridegroom”. It would be the bringing into view of Christ in testimony.
WHF Have we had anything to answer to the cry about the time of Luther and since?
JT I am sure we have.
EJW The midnight evidently refers to the darkest moment during the absence of Christ. It was between the second and third watches of the night, and therefore the beginning of the watch — the third — to which the Lord directs our special attention (Luke 12:38) as the one in which He is to be looked for with certainty. The fourth watch seems to refer to the succeeding period in which He will appear to the suffering Jewish remnant for their salvation, Matthew 14:25.
JT Yes. After Thyatira what comes to light is the coming of the Lord. Doubtless the period described in the fourth church may be taken to be the darkest period; not only the darkness of the world, but Jezebel really had destroyed the prophets of the Lord. There was doubtless light preserved, as in Ahab’s day (the prophets were preserved, fifty in a [p. 231] cave), but Jezebel had accomplished her work, and she here had assumed the garb of a prophetess; so she was adding to the world’s darkness — the darkness of apostasy. I think the testimony of the coming of the Lord, the revival of it, begins there.
WHF I suppose at the beginning what is called the rapture was really unknown to the saints; they were looking for the manifestation.
JT Evidently it was not known until the apostle wrote his first epistle to the Thessalonians.
WHF You only get the rapture spoken of directly in 1 Thessalonians 4.
JT The Lord says to the rest in Thyatira, “that which ye have already hold fast till I come”, Revelation 2:25. He distinguishes the remnant from the whole professing state of things. He says of Thyatira, “she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death”. Revelation 2: 21 - 23. That is the condition of things when the Lord separates a remnant. “But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come”. Revelation 2:24,25. And then the reward is to rule over the nations, and the Morning Star.
RSS I was thinking the truth of the rapture could not come out immediately after Pentecost. In Acts 3 Peter says: “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you”. Acts 3:19,20. That was the testimony then.
JT Stephen sees Him standing. He “saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God”, Acts 7:55. The glory and Jesus both had departed, but were waiting to return. He was ready to return to Israel with the glory on the ground of repentance. So the truth of the rapture could scarcely come in till later.
WHF It is evident that the saints of Thessalonica had no idea of the rapture whatever. Does it not come in there as a sort of correction, as well as being the testimony that those who had fallen asleep God would bring with Him?
JT Yes. What awakens affection in the assembly is Christ. Although at the close of the Thyatira period there was the thought of the coming of the Lord (”That which ye have already hold fast till I come” Revelation 2:25 and He announces that the overcomer should rule over the nations), yet you do not get that which suggests Christ Himself to you in that. I think we have to wait for Philadelphia for that which suggests Himself to us for what marked her was appreciation of Him and His things.
GAT Do you get in the ten virgins the truth of the wheat and the tares? Reality and profession, and both allowed to go on together. You would not know much difference outwardly.
JT Yes. They all professed to be virgins, and have lamps, and they had professedly the vessels that contained the oil which gives the light. All Christians assume to be lamps, but the question is whether they have the oil.
GAT I thought the lamp was more the Bible or the word.
JT It is “among whom ye shine as lights in the world”, Philippians 2:15. The Philippians were lights. There is in Luke 11:36 the word, “having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light”.
GAT That could not be said of unreal [p. 233] professors.
JT Every professing Christian assumes to be a light. If he has no oil he is as dark or darker than the heathen.
TJW Do you connect, in your remarks, the going forth of the midnight cry and Philadelphia? Do you think Philadelphia is produced by the midnight cry?
JT Yes. That is my thought, and the reason for it is that she appreciates Christ and all that belongs to Christ.
WHF So that “Behold, the bridegroom” (Matthew 25:6) would awaken the affections of the saints, and this you get in Philadelphia.
JT Yes.
TJW I suppose the cry, “Behold the bridegroom; go ye out to meet him”, (Matthew 25:6) would indicate a specific ministry brought in by the Spirit, would it not?
JT I believe so. A testimony raised up in the power of the Spirit which called direct attention to Christ, but, I think, Christ in relation to the purpose of God, for if a man has a bride, there is a sphere in which they are to dwell, and in which their glory is to be displayed.
TJW Do you regard that as a prominent thought rather than His own joy, or the mutual affection of the bride and the Bridegroom?
JT No, I think the joy is involved in “He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice”, John 3:29. The supreme joy is in the nuptials, but there is the sphere of display. Every bride and bridegroom have a house, or at least ought to have one.
TA Would you say that, “at midnight there was a cry made” would allude to the time when the truth concerning the Lord’s coming was revived or set [p. 234] forth?
JT Yes, but cometh in verse 6 should not be there, I think. Omitting it intensifies the truth. It was not an event, but a person. If you speak about the Lord’s coming, you speak about an event. If you speak about the Bridegroom, you speak about a Person.
RSS And that is emphasized in the way the Bible closes. “He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus”, Revelation 22:20. It is the expression of affection.
ETW At the same time there would be contained in this ministry and revival of the truth, the truth of His coming and what it involves.
JT The term “Bridegroom” involves display. The marriage is to be public, so if you announce the Bridegroom you really announce the public coming of the Lord.
WHC And the effect is, they go forth to meet Him.
JT To meet Him. It is like a man calling at another person’s house. He is announced: “Mr. So and So”. Here it is the “Bridegroom”. So the Person rather than the event of His coming is before you.
JB You were speaking of the sphere the bride and Bridegroom are to occupy: is not that involved in the cry, “Behold, the bridegroom”? Matthew 25:6.
JT I think if anyone takes in the thought of a bridegroom and bride there must be a sphere for them.
JB And that really brings in the Lord coming and taking His rights here.
JT And all the administration that belongs to Christ, for she is to share with Him in all that is His.
EJW It appears to be presented in that way in the Revelation.
RSS I was going to ask as to “go ye out to meet him”, Matthew 25:6 who are addressed in that way? It does not exactly refer to the bride, does it?
JT I think the figure here has reference to those who, according to custom, went forth to meet the bridegroom on his approach to the scene of his marriage feast.
WHC You do not get the bride here.
JSG They are those who share the joy of the feast.
JT It says, “while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage and the door was shut” Matthew 25:10; the foolish virgins, having had to go and buy oil, were not there when the bridegroom arrived and so they were left outside.
WHC That is what is going on now, is it?
JT Well, I think going forth to meet the Bridegroom means that you leave this present world and everything in it to go to meet Christ. But then what the foolish discovered in this was that they were not sustained in it. If you take up that attitude, you will need to be sustained, and profession will not carry you far. Profession is not vitality. It gives you a place before the world, but there is no moral power in profession. It gives you a place amongst all other Christians. So far as outward appearances went, foolish and wise were on the same footing, but the foolish were not sustained.
W.H.C. What is needed?
JT We need to cultivate the Spirit, otherwise our light will go out.
EHT What do you mean by that?
JT It is maintained in self-judgment.
EJW In connection with the question raised, it appears to me that the parable has in view the great day of Christ’s supreme joy, when the blessed tie between Him and the saints who form the bride will be consummated. The ten virgins appear to represent [p. 236] Christians in their responsible character — not as the bride — who have been called and accepted the call, to participate in this consummation.
JT But what moved the ten virgins at the outset was Christ. There is no doubt that the people alluded to in the ten virgins are those who subsequently form the bride, but it is Matthew, and Matthew goes on to the end on the line of responsibility. He does not deal with the heavenly side of the church. The thought of virgins involves responsibility. The Corinthians were to be presented as a chaste virgin to Christ. Those with the Lamb on Mount Zion are virgins; they are pure and apart. The ten all took that ground, but the test comes and the oil runs out.
That reminds us of what may be called two chapters in the Christian’s history. In Exodus 15 he is typically in the full flush of first light from the gospel, and there are songs. Not only Moses’ song, but Miriam’s song. What Miriam sang was brief. It is not a question of the expression of intelligence, but simply the recognition of Jehovah’s victory. Now that is how every believer, normally, begins, but with many this song dies out. It is not sustained, because the effort is to live on light alone. So that in Numbers 20 it is said that Miriam died. In other words, that which Miriam represents in the Christian dies. So that the Christian has to turn to another side of the truth. In the next chapter you get the Spirit, and another song.
WHF So Miriam’s song did not reach the land?
JT No, and neither does profession take you to the Bridegroom. In Numbers 21:17 you get another song — “Spring up, O well”. There is no cessation to that song. That is the beginning of the end.
WHF That is the Spirit coming out on the believer’s side.
JT It is at that juncture that the believer recognises the Spirit. “Sing ye unto it”. The end of that journey is the land of Canaan. There is no limit to the Spirit, but Miriam dies. That is where the difficulty lies with many Christians. They begin brightly, but the song they sang on the banks of the Red Sea is not sustained, and hence there is death. That leads to the other side, which is the Spirit if you do not touch this other side, your testimony is over.
WHF So there seems to be a distinct turning-point in the history of the believer.
JT It is important to see that, and the reason why multitudes of Christians cease to witness for Christ is because they do not see that the flesh is superseded by the Spirit.
Rem What Miriam celebrated abides, but you cannot live on that.
JT Exactly. There is nothing to sustain it. Miriam did not die like others on account of unbelief. She died a natural death. It is so with every believer; unless you recognise the Spirit instead of the flesh, your testimony is over. You do not cease to be a professing Christian, but there is no light from you and no song.
WHF Caleb and Joshua are remarkable; they continued from the start to the finish - They had the land in view from the outset.
GAT Why is it that I have not the same real joy I had when I first knew my sins forgiven? You see it in so many, the joy has left and there is that long face that does not belong to a Christian.
JT It is Miriam’s death, and the remedy is that there is another spring; so Numbers 21:17 says “Spring up, O well, sing ye unto it”. No more murmuring, grief or defeat. They go straight into the land.
JNH How do you sing unto [p. 238] it?
JT It is a question of recognition; the Spirit now becomes recognised in your soul.
WHC You give the Spirit His place.
JT That is it, and His full place. If you sing to a person, you give that person his full place. The answer to the springing well is Canaan. That is the end in view.
EHT You say we want to cultivate the Spirit?
JT First to recognise the Spirit, and then sow to the Spirit, and we shall reap life everlasting.
WHC And that involves constant self-abnegation.
Ques What does it mean — the princes digged the well?
JT These are spiritual men. They are not officials. It was at the direction of the law-giver, and that would point to Christ personally, but the princes digging the well would refer to spiritual men.
EJW “The princes” and “the nobles” are those who have ability and who labour to help the saints into the good of the Spirit, as God’s present purpose for us. They clear away obstructions by the direction and grace of Christ.
JT A prince is not an official. He is a great man because of what he is.
GAT How am I enabled to continue this song? I do not see why that song should die out. How can I carry it on? The song should get happier and sweeter.
JT It does if you are recognising the Spirit. The Spirit makes you to live, and the living are those who sing. “The living, the living, he shall praise thee”, Hezekiah says. And he does not say it of other people, but “as I do this day”, Isaiah 38:19. He was praising Jehovah, and why? He had been made to live. He had been down to the gates of death and had been made to live.
RSS Is the explanation of what you are speaking [p. 239] of now — that with those at the Red Sea it was a question of light, whereas at the brazen serpent it was a question of life? You cannot go on simply in connection with light and faith.
JT That is the point. Nothing is more helpful than to see that distinction. Light sets you in motion at the outset, but it does not sustain you. In the case of the Samaritans the evangelist first illuminated them, but the light would not have been sustained had they not received the Spirit. The Spirit was given to them in connection with Peter and John.
RSS So you cannot go on simply in faith. You must have the Spirit.
WHC Otherwise it would be going out, like the lamps. “Our lamps are going out”. Matthew 25:8.
JSG There is nothing living in you apart from the Spirit.
WCR Simply having the Spirit is not a warrant that the song will not die out.
JT No; the point is the recognition of the Spirit, because the people really had the Spirit, typically, from the beginning. The Spirit was there, but it was not recognised.
WHC The water was there, but the wells were stopped up. The water was not free to spring up.
RSS Might a person not have faith before they received the Spirit?
JT You would not get Him if you had not faith. We receive the Spirit “after” we believe. But it must be borne in mind that in the Christian faith is the fruit of the Spirit.
JSG Is it not important to remember that this line of things comes in after the man that could not appreciate the purpose of God has been set aside? He could appreciate safety from judgment and deliverance out of Egyptian bondage, but he could not appreciate what was in the heart of God for him.
JT [p. 240] That is it. You see how men accept the gospel at the outset, and what a boon it is for them, but they have no thought at that time of having to die. It is blessed to know forgiveness, and that you are sure you are going to heaven, but it never occurs to them that they have to die now morally. But we have to accept this so as to enter into divine things, and be for God here.
JSG When the light shows me what I am, I see that I cannot appreciate what God has purposed for me.
JT Yes. So after the thirty-eight years of experience is over, the Christian discovers that in the flesh no good dwells, and then what he sees is that he need not be troubled by the flesh, for God has condemned it. “God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit”, Romans 8:4.
WHF I suppose a believer comes to the springing well in Romans 8.
JT Yes. And then when you recognise the Spirit, there are certain obstacles that appear in your way, but they soon disappear. Sihon and Og are seen in Numbers 21.
PAES Are we to understand that there is just that one song, but that the character of the singers must change if they are to sing as the princes did?
JT These songs refer to individual experience. The first is the recognition of the death and resurrection of Christ; the second is the recognition of the Spirit. Songs in the land are collective; they are led by Christ, and refer to the Father.
JSG The Spirit springs up into everlasting life.
GWH What about Sihon and Og?
JT They typify the most formidable obstacles in the whole way into the purpose of God, but fortunately [p. 241] they do not appear till you get the Spirit. Otherwise they would be insurmountable.
GWH Where do they appear in the New Testament?
JT I think, as was said, in Romans 8 you get the antitype of all that section of Scripture. That is, the springing well, Sihon and Og, and the prophecies of Balaam, all are included in Romans 8.
WHF The elect come out in that chapter. “Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect?” Romans 8:33.
JT And then at the end we are more than conquerors. No obstacles are too great for us.
EJW Reverting to Matthew 25, one thing that appears to come out in the parable is that we are not equal to Christ. Christ is unchanged, He does not sleep. His interest and care for the saints do not weaken; but on our side, that is as to the church, great weakness and darkness have come in, so that His greatness and blessed character have been lost sight of. Slumber comes over the virgins, but even when this state of things has come about, He is able to bring about a revival as to Himself in the hearts of His people.
JNH Would you connect the midnight cry with the period within the last century?
JT I think so. I think it alludes to the time when the Spirit revived the truth in regard to Christ. Not only as He in whom there is justification by faith, as in the Reformation, but as He who is the Head.
WHF Was headship not one of the first points of truth that struck Mr. Darby?
JT Yes. If you bring in the truth of headship, the question is, of what world is He the Head? Not of this world. All the developments of truth begin there, so that the saints naturally become interested in regard to all that belongs to Christ; therefore the [p. 242] Spirit has developed the counsels of God for us. Hence in Philadelphia, what you see is affection for Christ, and all that belongs to Christ. What He presents to the Overcomer are things that have relation to the coming age, and the point in it is that they are His things. The “new Jerusalem which cometh down out of heaven from my God”. Revelation 3:12.
EJW And that would involve that they had been brought to some intelligent understanding of those things, because otherwise they would not appeal to them.
JT The Lord knew just where they were, and what they would appreciate.
PAES If you were thinking of the Head, you would not think of Him apart from the body.
JT I was thinking of Him not only as Head of the church, but as Head over all things, for that is really the testimony. “That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth even in him”, Ephesians 1:10. It did not all come out at once. Directly you bring Christ in in that light, interest is awakened; souls want to know all about Christ, The Queen of Sheba was interested not only in Solomon, but in all his things.
WHF The first truth that struck Mr. Darby was the headship of Christ, and then the presence of the Holy Spirit here.
JT And the presence of the Holy Spirit here brought in the truth of the temple where the light is. So that there has been disclosure after disclosure in regard to the things of Christ. Not that there has been anything new, but they have been revived and recovered to us.
GAT Does not this Scripture in regard to the ten virgins bring to us a warning in [p. 243] regard to watching? Is there not a difference between waiting and watching?
JT I think so. A person on the watch indicates intense interest.
GAT Every Christian is waiting. It is another thing to be watching and waiting.
JC Some had not their hand on the handle of the door. All were ready, but they were not with their hand on the handle of the door.
JT I hope we shall not miss the thought of the revival of the truth in regard to Christ and all that belongs to Christ. It is that which sets saints in movement out of this world.
JB It would be the revival of the testimony as regards Christ.
GFW Have you any thought why the talent is used? I think in some cases a talent was a very large sum of money.
JT The point, I suppose, would be that the Lord had committed certain treasure to those who should be responsible, and account would be taken on His return of what use had been made of this.
RSS What is the distinction in the teaching between the parable of the talents and the parable of the pounds? In the parable of the pounds each gets the same amount; in the parable of the talents there are differences in amount, one gets five, another two, and another one.
JSG Is it not an important point to notice in this parable that it is committed to those who have been tried? He called His own servants. They had been serving, and the ability is that which had been developed in connection with His service. Then He commits to them that which really supports His own.
JT What I believe we should endeavour to seize in all these things we have had before us is that there are these varied phases of the present state of things, and doubtless each Christian is connected with each [p. 244] phase; therefore the question should arise as to how we are to answer to what is presented to us; if it be a question of affection for Christ, as in the virgins, or a question of service, as in the case of the talents. In the parable of the “pounds” in Luke 19 the point is more the responsibility of the servants; each receives the same amount, but they are rewarded according to their faithfulness.
JB Is there any thought of gift in the talents?
JT The Lord acted sovereignly and with discrimination in giving His goods. Those to whom He gave them were His own servants, and so He knew their ability. But what to do with the money He left with them tested them. Hence it came to light that one of them did not know Him at all.
DB Would faithfulness as to the light we have appear there?
JT It would, only the talent is more than light. It would be a substance.
JSG Would this not be more general than what was spoken of as gift, as we had in Ephesians 4?
JT I think we should miss the point of the parable if we bring it down too much to individual service. It would be better to view it broadly as covering the church during the whole period of the Lord’s absence, and then the responsibility attached thereto.
GFW What would answer today to hiding the talent?
JT The man who would do that misjudges the Lord. He does not know Him, indeed. What lies at the bottom of this responsibility is affection for Christ. No man who had affection for Christ would hide the talent that Christ gave him. He would not turn to other things that obscure what is of Christ in him.
LTF He would not go on in the world.
JT If you do, you have hidden all that is of [p. 245] Christ, but it does not contemplate a genuine Christian, as you see from the sequel. “And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth”, Matthew 25:30. That man is not a Christian at all. But then, as we were saying, it is general and covers the professing system of things, in which Christ is obscured.
GAT It certainly proves that he was not a Christian, but I was wondering on that account why he got a talent at all.
JT I think it is the Lord’s way of putting responsibility. For instance, take Sardis. It had received and heard, but then “I have not found thy works complete before my God”. Revelation 3:2. The fact is, there was nothing that answered to God in all the activity in service. There was ignorance of God; so the Lord treats Sardis as the world. “I will come on thee as a thief”, Revelation 3:3.
WHC Do you think the talent would be appreciation of Christ?
JT I think it is that which He has communicated in the gift of the Spirit. In Christendom there is something and it is divinely given, too; but the question is, what is the product? The light is there, but there is no real product for God. “I have not found thy works complete before my God”. Revelation 3:2.
WCR In Hebrews 6 you get those who were once enlightened and had tasted of the heavenly gift. Is it like that?
JT It would be analogous to that, only there it is an apostate; but here the Lord is treating of service. He has, I think, in mind evangelical Christendom. Amid all the activity there is nothing complete in it. Nothing complete as to result, and there is nothing that suggests Christ to you.
JSG Even in the parable of the virgins they have oil in the lamps, but the point with the five wise is, they had it in their vessels. It is very simple [p. 246] to understand that the professing thing around us has something, because there is knowledge of things, so that they can speak of them, but there may not be any real life.
JT And I fancy if we were to analyse what goes on in professing Christendom what would strike you is, that it suggests that Christ is a hard Man. It does not suggest Christ in His true character to you at all.
JSG If you take the great object in it today, it is to treat and bring down divine things so that the natural man can take them up.
JT And therefore there is no true thought of Christ.
WB Is that in the form of legal demand — ‘Incline our hearts to keep this law’?
JT Yes, and setting people to work.
RML In regard to affection for Christ lying at the bottom of responsibility, we used to speak of a man with great love for souls. It would make a difference between the man who loved souls and the one who did not,
JT Labour is not on philanthropic principles. God has love for souls. It is right enough to have divine love for souls — “after that the kindness and love (philanthropy) of God our Saviour toward man appeared”, Titus 3:4; but human philanthropy is not affection in service.
WB “The love of Christ constraineth us”. 2 Corinthians 5:14.
JT In all these parables of the kingdom, what works out in results that are according to God is due to affection for Christ in the saints.
JC I would like to ask about Sardis. I thought the Lord spoke to them there, and there was in a sense a divided company; the one company that accepted what the Lord spoke to them turned into Philadelphia, and the others went into Laodicea.
JT Yes. He treats Sardis as the world. “Thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. Revelation 3:1. But He says, “thou hast a few names in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white because they are worthy. He that overcomes, he shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life”. Revelation 3:4,5. That is the remnant in Sardis. What it means is, that there was much in the way of enrolling — church rolls: church rolls called in question the rights of Christ over His people. The Lord alone has the right to enrol people. There is much in the way of church rolls, but the Lord says as it were, ‘Thou hast a few names and I know them’. They may not have been on the church rolls, but their names are in the book of life. I would not allow myself to be enrolled on any register here, because it calls in question the rights of Christ over my soul. God Himself “writeth up” His people, Psalm 87.
RML Do you think as regards those that were real, whom Christ knew in Sardis, that they were the faithful within the bounds of Protestantism?
JT I suppose so. Speaking historically, from the sixteenth to the eighteenth centuries there were those who had not defiled their garments. There is nothing ecclesiastical about them, and they are not spoken of in any other way. The Lord knew them personally. He had taken account of their names, and He says, “they shall walk with me in white for they are worthy”. Revelation 3:4.
RML This is not the present time.
JT No. There you come to Philadelphia, and He addresses them as a company. He does not address those simply who may have taken separate ground, but He addresses the church, and the reason is that there were those who recognised the church and walked in the light of it.
JSG That is, Philadelphia is a company you could not point to in this world. You can look on [p. 248] Sardis and Romanism, but you cannot in the same way look on Philadelphia.
JT If the Lord owns a collective thing now, He could not speak of anything but the church; and He says, “thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name ... Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth”, Revelation 3:8 - 10. That does not mean a few Christians walking apart, but the whole church.
JC Do not the two go down to the end?
JT The last four do: Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.
JSG But there are two great bodies you can point out.
JT Three, I suppose, though it would be difficult to distinguish between Sardis and Laodicea, they are to be distinguished. There is no difficulty about Thyatira and Sardis. Sardis is the world state of Protestantism. It is not to be distinguished from the world, whereas Laodicea is marked by being rich and increased with goods. My conviction of it is that Laodicea is, in a sense, the outcome of Philadelphia.
JC Is that your thought? Mine was that what had not accepted the word of the Lord in Sardis became Laodicea.
JT No, I think what brought to pass Laodicea is that the leaders of religious thought felt themselves eclipsed by the light which God recovered, and what they have set about to do is to imitate, and indeed use for their own ends the truths that were restored.
JSG That is, they used the light, but did not got into the benefit of it.
JT As you said the other night, they did not go to where the light came from. They stay where they are and seek to adapt the truth to their circumstances.
[p. 249] stances. Nearly all the great preachers in the last fifty years have profited by the truth. Which of them has not?
JSG Laodicea is marked by the absence of everything that is real.
JNH You refer to the rich in Laodicea?
JT They have everything. They have the gospel, the counsels of God, etc., according to the letter. They can say, What have you got that we have not got? But it has all arisen from rivalry.
Ques Is it that they make merchandise of it?
JT I believe many men have gone about as preachers who have traded on the light God has recovered, but it is Laodicean.
GFW What do you mean by Laodicea coming out of Philadelphia?
JT It is Satan’s work in order to nullify the revival of the truth. Collaterally with the movement of the Spirit there was great intellectual activity and research in religious centres in the last century.
JSG There were those who got light from Philadelphia, but they never went back to the source of it.
JT The true man traces the light to its source and stays there.
WCR They assume to be able to understand the light without the Spirit.
JT And they accredit it all to themselves. They are wearing feathers that grow on other birds,
GFW You do not think that Laodicea historically is a state into which Philadelphia fell?
JT No, I do not mean that. I mean Laodicea is a work of the enemy — the product of the activity of man’s mind in the church.
JSG It corresponds with 2 Timothy 3 — imitation.
JT Quite so. That is, the enemy could not [p. 250] overthrow the truth brought out by Mr. Darby, but he brought in a lot of men who used that truth intellectually, and they think they have need of nothing. But Christ is outside. They do not need Christ.
JSG In 2 Timothy 2:22 & 2 Timothy 2:25 you get this: “follow righteousness”, and “in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves”; but in chapter 3 there is to be no instruction, but you are to turn away from them. The moment there is imitation of the truth you are to turn away. There is no hope for it.
JT And we can thank God where there are eyes open to see: “they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all”, 2 Timothy 3:9.
JSG It only takes time for the imitation to be discovered.
WB These servants seem to have a great regard for their Lord, because the Lord gives them something very sweet. Not a great place, but entering into His joy. It is different from Luke in that way. There they are given authority over cities; here it is very sweet — the joy of the Lord.
JT It is in keeping with the teaching of the chapter — affection for Christ.
EHT Would you say a word about the joy of the Lord?
JT Whatever His joy may be - no doubt the chief would be the marriage. John the baptist said his joy was fulfilled in hearing the voice of the Bridegroom.
WHC Speaking of what was imitated, do you not think the time comes when the enemy is baffled on that line? He cannot imitate any longer. Jannes and Jambres withstood to a certain point, but they could not imitate life, and I think they will soon all be baffled, and will have to turn to opposition of the truth [p. 251] altogether.
JT So our great exercise should be to sow to the Spirit, for in recognising the Spirit and giving Him His place you get life.
GAT I suppose, what will expose the imitation is, what you get in the first part of the chapter. That time is coming.
JT It is life that exposes it. The finger of God exposed the magicians. The finger of God is life.
JSG The joy of the Lord is His joy on the completion of the work of grace.
JT It is touching, as our brother was saying, we enter into that.