READING 1 CHRONICLES 11
[p. 399] READING 1 CHRONICLES 11
JT I thought of Jerusalem more especially here. 1 Samuel 17 speaks of Christ’s victory over the enemy, and I think that the knowledge of the Lord, as viewed there, is the groundwork of things in the soul of the believer. Following upon that he discovers what Christ can be to him, even though another may continue to be king outwardly; the people recognise here that even while Saul was king, David was their real leader. But then all that is short of Jerusalem. The believer has to see Christ in His true place, the place designed for Him according to God’s counsels; and it is thence everything is worked out for God. So it says that David and all Israel went to Jerusalem after he was anointed king over all Israel.
RSS What do you specially connect with Jerusalem?
JT I think the Lord’s place in heaven is indicated in it.
LTF Is there any significance to be attached to Hebron?
JT That is where he had ruled over Judah alone. It was a step in advance of Adullam. In Adullam he was reigning only over the few who gathered to him, whereas at Hebron he reigned over Judah, but as in Jerusalem his influence is to be universal.
GAT Does this chapter bring before us Israel giving him his true place in their hearts?
JT On the side of the people, it answers to the anointing of David by Samuel. God had given him this place before by the anointing; now the people accord it to him.
GAT The Lord has His place from God, but do we give Him His place today?
JT That is for each Christian to answer for [p. 400] himself. All Israel did not give David his place at once. It began with a few, then Judah, and finally all Israel.
GFW They did not give him his place till Saul was dead.
JT No; but what they do recognise is this, “in time past, when Saul was king over us, thou wast he that leddest out and broughtest in Israel”, 2 Samuel 5:2.
GFW They come to that after Saul was dead.
JT But it is a fact, that he did act thus for them; and what that suggests is that Christ is at the present moment wielding the power of the kingdom, although not outwardly acknowledged king. The kingdom was presented in power in testimony to Israel, as we see in the case of Nabal. I think that the testimony of Christ personally was presented to Israel and then subsequently the testimony of the power of the kingdom. What is said in regard to Nabal was that David and his men had been a wall to his shepherds in the wilderness. They had been a protection to them. But the testimony had no effect upon Nabal because he was a fool. He represents the folly of Israel in not recognising Christ. At that point Abigail comes to light as one who recognised David in the light of God’s counsels. He fought the battles of Jehovah. She did not think of him in connection with herself, but in connection with Jehovah’s battles. So that she undoubtedly points to the assembly. She regards Saul as a man. She says, “Yet a man is risen to pursue thee”, 1 Samuel 25:29. She did not attach any value to Saul, or his kingdom. Abigail undoubtedly points to the assembly as taking a distinct position now as severed from Israel. She had been the wife of Nabal, but she becomes David’s wife. The remnant of Israel becomes detached from Israel and united to Christ. David was fighting the battles of the Lord, and he [p. 401] should be bound up in the bundle of life with the Lord; he would judge his enemies.
RSS Jonathan asks to be next to David in the kingdom; all that Abigail asks is, “remember thine handmaid”. 1 Samuel 25:31. Jonathan is dead when this day comes, but she shares David’s honour and glory. How slow we are to grasp God’s thoughts! We get them very distinctly stated, but it takes a man a long time to get to them. God told Samuel to anoint David, but now it is only at this late date that all Israel came to Hebron to anoint David king. They come to God’s thoughts, but they are a long time in coming to it.
JT So that this chapter is strictly a foreshadowing of the establishment of the kingdom publicly in the future; whereas the intervening chapters in 1 Samuel have reference to the present moment, when Christ in rejection is learned as the One who exercises the power of the kingdom, and is a protection to God’s people. When the Philistines invaded Keilah, David went and delivered the city. Saul should have done that, for he was then king, but David did it. It points to the present state of things. Another is king, and yet Christ is the One who is protecting the interests of God’s people. We do not look to those in office outwardly today for protection.
GAT You would say we are living in the day when both kings, Saul and David, are known, as it were, but our King is Christ?
JT The present state of things is abnormal. When God set up a king the king was supreme, and you would look to him for protection, but the man in authority in this country affords no protection to the Christian, or for the things of God; the protection is hidden. Only the Christian knows it; and when the time comes for Christ to be crowned publicly, the Christian knows why. Even in the days when another was king, Christ was the real King [p. 402] to him.
GAT You would say that we should crown Him in our hearts now.
JT I think if you expect to get any good from Him now that is what you have to do. Jonathan did not get any protection from David. He could not. He never acknowledged him publicly; and so believers who are connected with what is hostile to Christ cannot get protection from Him.
WB How do you understand 1 Timothy 2:1,2, praying for those in authority that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty? The powers that be are in view there, are they not?
JT We recognise the Gentile dominion as ordained of God, but the powers that exist afford no guarantee for divine things. Indeed, Acts shows that the ordained authority was against divine things; Peter has to say “We ought to obey God rather than men” Acts 5:29.
LTF You just recognise their authority in outward things.
JT I would be subject to it.
WB We are thankful for the government that prevails in this country; it suppresses evil to some extent.
JT That is perfectly right. God has given power to the Gentiles, and we are in the times of the Gentiles still, and we do not resist the authorities; we pray for them, but we recognise at the same time that God has set up another King, and that all protection for divine things and for God’s people depends on Him.
FL David recognised that. He would not allow any interference with Saul when one of his followers would have taken advantage of Saul’s weakness and helplessness.
JT He respected what was outwardly of God, but he does not trust it for anything that is of God or moral. The great sin of Christians, at the time of [p. 403] the Reformation was that they allied Christianity with the State. They looked to the State for protection.
FL “There is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God ... . For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil”, Romans 13:1 - 3. I suppose there is the recognition there that power is delegated, and just so far we go with it; but, as you say, in divine things we absolutely refuse every interference.
GAT You are told to pray for them, not to look to them.
JT Yes, you would not ask a policeman to protect you while preaching.
GFW Praying for them was really with God’s people in view, was it not?
JT Moreover you recognise that they are men, and it says God “will have all men to be saved”. 1 Timothy 2:4.
GAT Would you vote for them?
JT I think if you vote for a man you assume, in principle, to be greater than he. You assume authority to put him into office, so that you are greater than he; and then, that is evidently disputing God’s rights, because “power belongeth unto God” Psalm 62:11.
RSS In connection with asking police protection when preaching, some time since we had a tent where we were greatly harassed by boys. We thought of asking for protection, but concluded there was not much faith in that. We looked to God about the matter and tried another meeting. The trouble began again, but suddenly stopped. We found the police had come on the scene of their own accord and apprehended the troublers. One of them said to us: ‘As long as your tent is here you will have no further trouble’. We got relief without asking it from man.
JT [p. 404] I would not depend on that too much.
RSS Do you not think the Lord intervenes in that way?
JT What I think we need in service for Christ is to experience His power, which is spiritual. You feel there is something surrounding you that is irresistible. If you are witnessing for Christ, you feel that His power is surrounding you, and that is what you get in the end of 1 Samuel; the exercise of the power of the kingdom by one who is not outwardly acknowledged king, but nevertheless has the power.
RSS That is on a little higher platform than what we are thinking of.
JT I think it is. You were glad to get relief in that way, but you would rather see them restrained by divine power.
JLJ Would you say the apostle sees that in Hebrews 2, when he sees Jesus crowned with glory and honour?
JT He does not see all things put under Him, but he sees Him crowned. I think that is a wonderful thing for Christians to realise. David says: “with me thou shalt be in safeguard”; and, “he that seeketh my life seeketh thy life”; 1 Samuel 22:23.
JC The kind of power you are looking for would be seen in Peter in the beginning of the Acts.
JT That is the power that the kingdom evidences. And in Stephen: “they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake”, Acts 6:10.
Now another point comes out in David before he is acknowledged king, and that is the principle of recovery. In 1 Samuel 30 everything is lost. The Amalekites had raided the south, and taken Ziklag and burned it with fire, and carried everything off. David appears on the scene and the people are about to stone him, but he “encouraged himself in the Lord his God”. 1 Samuel 30:6. David recovered all; and having [p. 405] recovered all he uses the spoil, first to meet the needs of the people, and then he sends presents to his friends in Judah.
RSS What would you think is the significance of that?
JT I think it is another type of the death and resurrection of Christ; everything had been lost by man and Man recovers everything. And now in resurrection He distributes the fruit of His victory to His friends.
LTF Is it anything like receiving gifts for men?
JT On that principle. He gives things to His friends.
GFW If David had not put himself in the awful position of trying to fight with the Philistines, Ziklag would not have been burnt. What is to be learnt from that?
JT He failed, but the object of our readings is not to see that side, but rather to see Christ in David. His failure only shows how far short the type comes of the anti-type. David went into the land of the Philistines and is willing to fight against Israel. This shows that you could never trust a believer if he gets into a false position. He is liable to do anything.
JC His position with the Philistines resulted from unbelief: he said, “I shall now perish one day by the hand of Saul”, 1 Samuel 27:1.
JT And that in the presence of the most signal deliverance. He lost heart.
Rem We might not have had that wonderful lesson in Ziklag if he had not gone with the Philistines.
JT It shows how God can turn failure into blessing for His people; and what I hope we may come to is that we shall see that David’s failure in connection with the recovery of the ark became the occasion of the most wonderful unfolding of [p. 406] divine order.
GAT We can have confidence in God and wait, and even if failure does come in God can turn it to our good.
JT I think that in any failure that occurs amongst us, if we are really humbled, we get mere light than we had before. I believe that if we really humble ourselves at the present time, as David did, we shall get more light. The very failure becomes the occasion of light.
AAT In that day evidently Jerusalem was the point of God’s testimony not only for Jerusalem and the Israelites, but for the nations.
JT That is what we are being led up to. Jerusalem is the climax as to position; it was henceforth to be the centre of everything for God.
AAT But there is a now departure, is there not? Jerusalem is set aside today.
JT As to the literal Jerusalem it is, but we recognise the place God has given Christ. “Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion”, Psalm 2:6. That is the decree. That is what God has done. But the people have to do it, and this chapter shows that the people will ultimately come to this point, and give Christ the place that God has assigned to Him. Thus you get the working out of divine thoughts.
GFW In principle Jerusalem is not set aside.
JT No Jerusalem is above now. God allows nothing to lapse. Jerusalem stands for the sovereign rights of God. “The Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee”, Zechariah 3:2. Satan was standing as an adversary when God would bless Joshua, but God had chosen Jerusalem. Jerusalem was God’s chosen position.
GH But you do not come to Jerusalem till you recognise the king.
JT No. Jerusalem is not touched till there is universal [p. 407] acknowledgment of Christ.
AAT You are speaking of a future day now.
JT Quite so. The epistle to the Ephesians, I think, answers to Jerusalem.
JHC Would that verse in Hebrews 12:22 have any connection, “ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem”?
JT That refers to the privileges accorded to us.
GFW In going on to Jerusalem we are going beyond the present period. What answers to the present period is those that gathered to David in rejection.
JT That is so, but there is another side of the truth: what answers to Christ’s place publicly in the future is His present place now in heaven, and I think that what the Spirit of God would do for us is to lead us to give Christ that place in our hearts. Then everything is worked out for God. In this book you get a wonderful unfolding of divine order. David does everything in regard to the priests and Levites, and all that appertains to the house.
GFW Our actual position is like the cave of Adullam, but as giving Christ His place in our hearts we anticipate his universal recognition.
JT And this means that Christ is the real King, although others may have that place outwardly.
AAT How do you reconcile what you said as to God having set up the powers that be with the fact that Satan is the god of this world?
JT He is the prince too, but that came out more in regard to the Jewish world. Satan is god of the Gentile world too, of course, as far as God permits it, but he cannot use the Gentile powers today in an absolute way. God does not permit him. But he does use them. God will give up the Gentiles when He reverts to Zion, and then they become the direct agents of Satan, and therefore the beast and the false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire.
WB They do not even come to the judgment [p. 408] seat.
JT They are disposed of summarily by Christ. They represent the whole power of the world, and yet the Lord can deal with them summarily. In this we have a testimony to His power.
RSS I suppose because they are found in open rebellion against Christ.
JT That is it exactly. But that has not come to pass yet.
FL As far as will is concerned, the will exists to do it, but the restraining power of God does not allow it to come to a head. In a sense Satan had reason to say the kingdoms of the world were his. Men are willing to grant everything to Satan, lust, self-aggrandisement and to deluge the world with blood. In that way Satan can put in a claim upon them. They are like him, but the one thing that prevents all coming to a head is the restraining power of God during the working out of His purposes. When that is taken off Satan shows that his claim is well founded.
WJN You were saying, what we get in this chapter really leads on to the truth of headship. Do you mean headship in its broad sense as in the epistle to the Ephesians?
JT More particularly as ordering and directing divine things; so that in 1 Chronicles David’s word is paramount. Even the priests and Levites are under his direction.
WJN In the kingdom it is the thought of safety, but this scripture leads on to the recognition of God’s counsels in Christ.
JT It is the collective acknowledgment of Christ. Following upon this the ark is brought in, and David is seen as giving the psalm to be sung and directing the singers, etc.; all is arranged by David.
AAT It must have been a very hard thing for the Jews to give up Jerusalem as a centre and be taken up with the central point at God’s right hand.
[p. 409] JT Acts 9 is the point of departure in that connection, the Son of God. If you bring in that wonderful Person He must have a city of His own. He cannot take a centre that another has had; so that the Son of God and Jerusalem above are bound up together.
FL It is helpful to see that Chronicles presents things from the divine side according to purpose, and things are seen in order according to God — what the kingdom really is according to God taken up and made good by David. In Samuel you get things historically presented: we have the rebellions, failures and breakdown; things are worked out actually in conflict. If we grasp what is presented in Chronicles it is an immense help in passing through conflicts, exercises and actual tests; we shall not stand very well unless we really do get hold of things from the divine side as here in Chronicles.
JT Yes. I think Chronicles gives you things from the divine side; and you get there also the origin of things. That is the force of the genealogies. You get things traced to their roots. It is well for Christians to have things traced out for them from their origin, and I have no doubt that this is largely the point in the genealogies.
FL And in the same connection both in the genealogies as in the mighty men and others we get moral value according to God. That comes out markedly in this book.
JT You feel it is well worth having genealogies traced if we are shown to be of the same bone as Christ and the same flesh.
GAT You do not want to go back to Adam, do you?
JT No, I do not. Here they say, “we are thy bone and thy flesh”. 1 Chronicles 11:1.
GH They were a considerable time coming to this point, were they [p. 410] not?
JT I think so. So that you must be prepared for advanced truth in this book. It is not elementary.
GAT But you would not encourage us to wait a long time before coming into it.
JT But there is a certain way prescribed by which you arrive at it; you come to the point of acknowledging Christ as the only One qualified to rule, and then you find that you are akin to Him.
RSS It was this that brought in unity according to God, the unity of all Israel, and it will today. What will produce it today is the desire to exalt Christ.
LTF “Thy bone and thy flesh” 1 Chronicles 11:1; they were not considering the blood relationship. It is what will be in resurrection.
JT I think that is what it is. We can only be linked with Christ in resurrection.
LTF All here is on that basis.
JT I think this book is on the principle of resurrection.
GAT Christ traces the relationship to us, does this make a difference?
JT According to Hebrews, we trace our genealogy to Christ.
GAT I was thinking of “Go to my brethren”, John 20:17.
JT He recognises it first and then you recognise it. It says in Nehemiah that certain ones were disqualified for the priesthood, because they could not show their genealogy; they should be disqualified till there stood up a priest with Urim and Thummim. This Priest has now come in, and we, who had no title to priesthood after the flesh, are priests because of our relation to Him.
Rem It is wonderful how David gave character and tone to everything, not only to the kingdom, but also to the house of God.
JLJ Would you say 1 Peter 2 answers to that — — the spiritual [p. 411] house?
JT Only it does not show headship. It shows that we are a spiritual house, but our brother has referred to the fact that Christ as Head gives character to things. 1 Chronicles is a most interesting book in that way.
FL The point is here; “both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren”, Hebrews 2:11. “Bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh”, Genesis 2:23.
RSS Were the genealogies to show their relationship to David?
JT They trace things to their root; but for a Christian it is a most happy thing, because if your genealogy is traced it is traced to Christ. It is a thing you invite. You are not ashamed of it.
J.C. As Head?
JT As the source whence you have sprung.
WHF Are you connecting the headship of Christ here as it comes out in Ephesians, everything standing in relation to Him in the new system?
JT Yes. But that comes out more after the ark is placed in Zion. Here you do not get beyond the thought of Christ being acknowledged universally as King.
WHF Headship is a further thought.
JT I think so. And it depends on the ark having its place in Zion.
JC The first would be lordship, and then headship.
JT That is it. First as Lord He is acknowledged, and then the ark is brought in, and then you get the development of headship.
WB I see there is conflict at Jerusalem with the Jebusites. What does that signify?
JT Manifestly they are not going to give up their position without a struggle. I think it sets forth the place that Satan has held hitherto. He has [p. 412] had the place and the city of authority in the heavenlies, but Christ going into the heavenlies has been the signal for his overthrow. He has not been dislodged in detail and will not be till the end; but he is dislodged for faith, and so the Lord says, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven”, (Luke 10:18) intimating, I think, that the place that Satan occupied in heaven should be the place of the saints. The seventy had returned to the Lord and had said, “Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name” and He said, “Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven”, Luke 10:17; Luke 10:19,20.
GAT Would you say Joab had done here what Michael the archangel will do in the day to come?
JT In a way, but the Lord intimated that He would give them a place in heaven, not only power over the enemy here, but that they should have a place in heaven.
JLJ You mean now.
JT That is our place, and so an occasion of our joy.
GFW I would like to get clear as to the difference between what we had this morning and this. This morning, it was what affects us personally in taking our position in regard to Christ. What we have now is further — His universal dominion.
JT This morning it was Christ’s personal victory over the power of Satan and the gain that has accrued to you through it that was before us; but this chapter shows you Christ in His universal place and you are according Him that place; from this point you may look for the development of God’s counsels. I think that Ephesians corresponds with this latter, because it shows the place God has designed for Christ. He [p. 413] has purposed to head up all things in Christ in heaven and earth. Here they all come to recognise David as bone of their bone; and that, having wielded the power of the kingdom before, he is qualified now to rule; and David virtually says, ‘Now that you are going to give me the place of king, I want you to understand where I am to be king’. So that Jerusalem is prominent here. It was David who took the initiative in regard to Jerusalem, not the people. It was still held by the Jebusites. The Lord takes us to heaven.
GFW That would be involved in universal dominion. He must take the stronghold of the enemy.
JT Short of that, the enemy would continue to influence things, so that He goes to the highest point and dislodges him there.
FL I think the point in our brother’s mind comes out in connection with the ark. The question was were people in touch with the right place? That comes out in connection with the ark further on in the book.
JT It is a wonderful day when Christians give the Lord His place; and directly you do that the Lord goes higher. It mean elevation.
GAT Do you not meet a good many people today who are not actually sure as to where to go? I know of brethren going about among different christian companies to find where the Lord is.
JT I think they belong to the rovers. There were those who helped David against the rovers. They had no certain dwelling-place; and as a rule such people are enemies of the truth.
GAT They seem to be honest christian people.
JT But the test of everything is the will of God.
JLJ Would you say there is something morally [p. 414] wrong?
JT If the truth were known it would be seen that there is a bad state of soul.
LTF If they hungered and thirsted after righteousness they would be filled.
JLJ Every one that gives Christ His true place He will take to heaven.
JT That is the point. David goes up to Jerusalem at once.
RSS Zion is spoken of here. What distinction do you make between Jerusalem and Zion?
JT I think Jerusalem is more the political capital. Zion stands for God’s sovereign mercy. Mount Zion is distinct from Jerusalem in Hebrews. Zion represents more a principle. What do you think?
RSS I agree with that.
JT Of course they are sometimes interchangeable expressions in the prophets and the psalms. David took the castle of Zion, which is the city of David.
Rem Would you say the ark gave character to Zion?
JT Yes; but Zion must be taken account of separately. It is more a principle, whereas Jerusalem is the political capital.
RSS It is the castle, the stronghold, of Zion here, and that would be connected with the kingdom.
JT David, it seems, paid especial attention to it, whereas Joab is allowed to repair the rest of the city.
WB Is there any difference between Zion, the city of David, and Jerusalem, the city of the great King?
FL I think what you have said helps us along that line. The city of the great King is the metropolis, but Zion is the place in it that David chooses as his sovereign dwelling place. He dwelt there. It is a thought which attaches to Christ personally. In verse 7, “David dwelt in the castle, therefore they called it the city of David”. 1 Chronicles 11:7. It is the whole value that attaches to where Christ [p. 415] abides.
JT I hope we shall not miss the idea of Jerusalem as that which Christ has taken possession of as accorded the place of King by all His people. The heavens, or seat of rule according to God’s purpose, are now in Christ’s possession, and this involves an immense change for God’s people on earth.
FL That is only gained by conflict, as it comes out here and in Ephesians.
JT Yes. As a matter of fact the enemy is still there, so that this picture strictly looks on to a future day when he shall be completely dislodged. For faith he is dislodged already.
Ques Does dominion belong to Christ?
JT The question here is not only dominion, but the place whence it is exercised.
WB Where is the spot which now answers to Jerusalem? I mean the literal Jerusalem.
JT The assembly is the place of rule on earth for the present time.
WB Jerusalem was the place where He put His name; but His name is here still; not in that outward way, but among the saints.
JT There is righteous rule maintained here on earth as a testimony.
WB That is, Christ gets His rights now from those who are His.
JT And not only that, but there is maintained in the assembly righteous rule, a rule that is of God. At least there was at the beginning, and that answers to Jerusalem, because it was there that justice was administered. As regards the seat of power, heaven is that. As to testimony, everything must be maintained on earth; so that the assembly on earth as a sphere of rule answers to Christ’s place in heaven; what is bound on earth is bound in heaven.
RSS You were speaking a little while ago of the kingdom of the heavens in connection with [p. 416] what we are looking at just now. Will you enlarge on that?
JT Ephesians meets a certain state in the believer’s soul after he has learned righteousness. Romans involves the latter, and that the believer has the Spirit; in Colossians Christ has come before him as Head; now he is prepared for the sphere that belongs to Him, the domain of Christ, and Ephesians develops that. I think this chapter answers to it in the Old Testament. It points to the heavenly position. It is in that way I ventured to link it with Ephesians.
RSS What part of Ephesians do you refer to?
JT The first chapter speaks of God’s purpose to head up all things in Him; and that, as raised up and seated in the heavenlies, He is Head over all things to the assembly; and then the saints are viewed in the second chapter as in heaven; they are viewed as being raised up and seated in the heavenlies in Christ.
RSS This, however, is looking forward to a future day.
JT To a future state of things on the earth, but Jerusalem will be morally elevated above all else on earth in that day; so heaven now.
GFW The apostle prays that the saints should know what he was speaking about. Is the present application of it the knowledge and enjoyment of what God will do actually in the future?
JT He prays in the first chapter that we might know certain things; among them, the power that wrought in Christ; in the third chapter he prays not only that we might know the power that is towards us, but the power that works in us, so that we might “be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height”. Ephesians 3:18.
GFW That is it. It is the present apprehension of something that is actually [p. 417] future.
JT Exactly. So that it is for faith. It is not actual yet.
GH Do you think that what follows the kingdom is headship?
JT I think so, in this book. When David is accorded the place of king, then he goes to Jerusalem and takes it; and then you get the ark brought in; then the development of the order of God’s house, which I think involves headship.
FL I think what comes in in connection with his entrance into Jerusalem and Zion is perfect intelligence and perfect righteousness. You see that in the answer made to David when he came to Jerusalem “Except thou take away the blind and the lame, thou shalt not come in hither”. 2 Samuel 5:6. David goes in, so that there was perfect light and perfect intelligence and perfect righteousness in Zion; the blind expressive of ignorance, and the lame of unrighteous walk, were gone. Jerusalem and Mount Zion are really apprehended in the full light of the counsel of God and in righteousness.
RSS What do you think Joab represents here? He gains the place of chief.
JT The question would be whether there is not a measure of weakness shown on David’s part, for David was the chief himself.
WB He was a great trouble to him ever after.
JT Yes. David set a thorn in his side in setting Joab in that position.
GFW That is, he tried to gain his ends by fair or foul means.
JT He was a corrupt man. He caused David great sorrow. David should have retained the place of chief and captain. You could not apply all this to Christ.
GFW I was wondering if it applied to energy of faith in the saints.
JT Doubtless it would so far as that goes, but [p. 418] really it was David who was the captain, and he should have taken the city. He should not have delegated the work to Joab.
RSS So it is well to bear in mind that we are considering David as he sets forth Christ, not his failures.
AAT In connection with giving the Lord His place, which corresponds to Jerusalem, at God’s right hand, is there conflict connected with it?
JT Very great conflict; when you see the place that God has designed for Christ, you do not admit of any other there, and that brings you into conflict with satanic power. You dispute any other claimant to power or influence.
GFW Is that the conflict in Ephesians?
JT You are brought into conflict now. In Christendom there are those who put forth a claim to influence and rule, but the believer who loves Christ refuses it, and this brings you into conflict.
JC Is that aggressive? In Ephesians you stand.
JT You have to be aggressive if man’s will asserts itself amongst God’s people; you have to act, because it disputes the authority of Christ.
GFW But are we not aggressive in standing? In not being influenced is real aggressiveness.
JT Under certain conditions positive aggressiveness is necessary. For instance, I think Mr. Darby was aggressive. He was a man of conflict. He had to go forward and take things. Our position is rather standing and maintaining what God recovered through him.
GFW I meant that we are not called to that kind of aggressiveness. God does not lead now to our attacking things outside much. The line seems more to retain what has been recovered. There are certain conditions where attacks have to be made as here.
WHF It is a question of holding fast.
JT More that, “having done all, to stand”, Ephesians 6:13.
WHF It is harder, in a way, to do that than to go forward.
RSS Could you say a word as to how we might reach what you have been speaking about this afternoon?
JT It seems to me that the great point for us is to see to it that Christ has His place in our hearts, not only as the Deliverer, but as the One whom we know as qualified to be King; and then, I think, we shall get movement on His part. He leads forward then.