READINGS ON DANIEL (1)
READINGS ON DANIEL (1)
JT The proposal at this time is not to look into the prophetic side of Daniel’s book, but rather the moral side, if the brethren will take in what that means. It is a very prophetical book, of course, dealing with the powers that be, those powers which took the place of Israel. All this is in mind, but, as I said, the mere matter of prophecy is secondary. What is first is the moral side, especially as it bears on young people. So chapter 1 is selected because it deals with it, first of all in the removal of Israel as God’s representative here on earth and next in the introduction of the Babylonians and Nebuchadnezzar; then the account given of these four young Jewish persons who are mentioned in this first chapter is in view of the youth among us at the present time, because there are old among those who are ministering, and it is just to remind the youth that they should be ready as Daniel and his three companions were ready when the time came. If what I say is intelligible, the brethren will say so, I am sure.
CHH Is it important to see what is represented in the powers that sought to influence in a subtle way so that only a comparatively small number of all the youths were maintained? The subtle way in which the authority of Nebuchadnezzar would seek to defile the youths and get them into his system? Is not that prevailing today?
JT There are the powers that be, of course. They are not much removed from the world; they are selected from the world, but at the same time are under God and we take them from God’s hand. They are ordained of God; the powers that be are ordained of God, we are told, and God has His own hand in matters; that perhaps should come before us. Then we may see how the dangers of youth [p. 207] enter into the matter, because the powers that be are drawn from the world, and certainly in our own disposition we are apt to seek after power in that sense, and glory. We are apt to seek after the power and glory that belongs to the ruling class and the point now is to see how these young men in this chapter are able to keep themselves from what is defiling.
RWS These youths are able to keep the testimony and hold the position. They were just a few in the testimony, the great public body taken captive in Babylon. Looking at appearances we would give up, but it is a question of being with God in relation to these moral exercises.
JT That is exactly what is in my mind. We must look at this from the standpoint of the youth among us, those who are needed to carry on the testimony, and one can thank God there are a good many of them relatively. Some, of course, have turned aside, alas! That has to be mentioned too, the moral condition of some who have given way to the enemy; it exposes certain of us and is to be detected.
AB Would constitution be in mind in regard to these young men?
JT Now tell us what constitution means in your mind.
AB I was thinking of what you said in regard to our younger people, the need for the refusal of certain things that would damage them constitutionally, even in regard to the powers that be. So the great matter of food in the scripture is to establish us and to carry us through relative to God and what is of God here.
JT I see now what the word ‘constitution’ is in your mind — how we are formed, what our habits are.
AB Exactly.
[p. 208] EJM Had you in mind that the young people among us in a moral sense are of royal lineage, and that God has them in His mind even though they may be set in untoward circumstances in this world? Hence meetings like this contribute to their moral growth and understanding of divine things?
JT Why are you using the word ‘royal’?
EJM Well, it says, “And the king spoke unto Ashpenaz the chief of his eunuchs, that he should bring of the children of Israel, both of the royal seed and of the nobles, youths ...” I was thinking of the family of God, for instance, and what the young are in the sight of God in contrast to what is in the world.
JT Then you have the word ‘royal’ in your mind in a spiritual sense, and that would be that they are of royal lineage as born again, born of God.
LES This would be over against what is said in the end of 2 Chronicles in regard of Jehoiakim, who was carried away, and Jehoiachin. One was twenty-five when he began to reign and the other eighteen. These four youths would be over against the condition of corruption and compromise and being under the power of the enemy which is seen in those two kings. It says of Jehoiakim, “He reigned eleven years in Jerusalem; and he did evil in the sight of Jehovah his God. Against him came up Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon”.
JT No royalty in him at all morally.
LES Exactly.
JT We want to look for royalty in a true sense, that which arises from the Spirit of God, born of the Spirit; unless anyone be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. First, he is born anew to see the kingdom; then by water and Spirit to enter into the kingdom. The idea of royalty is what the Spirit may have done with the brethren. Whether the idea of water and Spirit is applicable is,
[p. 209] I think an important thing to bring up, because these four young men of Judah were evidently pure in their outlook and feelings.
VL Would you think that Paul, even as Saul, would be a man preserved from moral damage so that he would fit into the testimony when God was ready for him?
JT I would think so. He was mentioned as one of those who held the clothes of Stephen, and then we are told the Lord said to him, “It is hard for thee to kick against goads”. The conscience was not at work. There must be conscience at work.
VL There certainly should be. I was thinking of your reference to the word ‘water’. Paul uses it a good deal in Hebrews, the washing and sanctifying.
JT “Washing of water by the word”. There it connects water with the word. I think what you said is quite important in view of the youth among us, the word ‘youth’ including not only young men but sisters, too.
JGH Would you say the thought of purity is brought out in that Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not pollute himself with the king’s delicate food? He was evidently one who called on the Lord out of a pure heart.
JT Evidently the washing was there in its effect.
SMcC Youthful lusts flee. Paul would have in mind that Timothy would be free from all that would damage him in view of being free for the testimony.
CCT The apostle says in 2 Corinthians 7, “Purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh”. Does that not enter into this?
JT “Perfecting holiness in God’s fear”. Excellent. I suppose you have something more to say in regard to your remark, Mr. McC.
SMcC I was just thinking how Timothy would fit into these difficult times. Paul was concerned [p. 210] that he should be free from that which would damage him in his part in the testimony.
JT That brings up the question of what people have to do themselves, to look after themselves, “Purify ourselves from every pollution of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God’s fear”.
EBM “Having purified your souls by obedience to the truth to unfeigned brotherly love”.
JT Obedience to the truth, I would think is very important.
EBM The affection side is there, too.
RWS Mephibosheth was damaged when his nurse took him up and fled. He fell and became lame.
JT Showing the nursing was not too good.
RWS While grace overcomes the damage, the damage is there.
JT How easily people become deformed spiritually and morally by bad nursing, poor nursing, maybe in their local meetings.
CHH Would the spirit seen in Paul in view of recovery with Eutychus look out for that kind of thing so that the damage would not be permanent?
JT He is referred to as a boy, evidently one of the young. It says, “And they brought away the boy alive, and were no little comforted”, showing they had care for him at this time. It was on the first day of the week it happened.
JK Is the royal line we have been speaking of seen in what Paul says in relation to Timothy? “Calling to mind the unfeigned faith which has been in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and in thy mother Eunice, and I am persuaded that in thee also”.
JT Very good. The reference to the parent and the grandparent, just as we were noticing, would show that parents are the nurses, and would mean that in some sense the local meeting should seek to [p. 211] have a care mutually so that the young may be saved from the world, which is a weapon of the devil to damage the youth.
RWS Is nursing a function of the local assembly?
JT That is what I mean.
CHH I would take it that there is a certain background to these young people seen in their names; the name of God comes into each one of their names.
JT They are remarkably treated as youths, young people. They are called children at one time. They had the severest test, Daniel excepted, in the fire in a later chapter.
CCT As to what you were saying about nursing, would Hannah’s bringing the new coat year by year come in?
JT Very good. She knew the growth of her child and she brought a little coat every year. She ministered to the service of God in doing that.
TU Have you any thought as to why these selected are of outstanding qualifications, “youths in whom was no blemish, and of goodly countenance, and skilful in all wisdom, and acquainted with knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king’s palace”?
JT They are selected, showing that the selection made is important. We should make selections.
TU They were selected on the basis of qualifications.
JT Quite so, but then they come in in connection with Daniel as companions. We have to make allowance for what Daniel was, especially for his influence as the writer of the book, the right influence. Daniel clearly had the lead in all this matter. That is another thing that has to be spoken of, the great thought of leadership among the brethren in [p. 212] local settings.
EJM Is not the moral power of Daniel worth noticing? He held sway in spite of the conditions in which he lived until the day of recovery.
JT Very good, showing he is a man that goes through things and is successful and is viewed in that light from the very beginning to the end of that book. “Go thy way, Daniel”, and so on. He takes care of himself in a certain sense.
EJM And in a moral way he had sufficient influence with the government to bring his three companions into the position.
JT Very good. He took care of them, too.
Rem They become models for all, as Paul did.
JT Yes, this is in mind, all that we are saying in the idea of care for others. They become models. The word ‘model’ is a very important word in Scripture. Paul says, “Be my imitators, even as I also am of Christ”.
JMcK Does the idea of what is constitutional seen in John’s epistle help? “I have written to you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one”.
JT Quite so. The little children too are in mind. There is more said to the little children than to any. There is very little said to the fathers, “Ye have known him that is from the beginning”. Those of us who are older are saluted, as it were, but the younger and particularly the children are well cared for.
RWS So there are to be no meetings where the young people in the truth are to be excluded.
JT That is right, I have seen it misused, they go as they wish to, but they should be brought into the afternoon reading instead of the children’s meeting. The children’s meetings are given up generally now.
RWS What I meant was, at certain meetings where there have only been brothers, the sisters are [p. 213] now brought in. And now the children and the young people are to be included in all assembly functions.
JT They come into the truth to some extent. There is some quality to indicate that the Spirit of God has begun to work in them.
RWS I wondered if there are any meetings where children would be excluded, whether in London or any other kind of meetings?
JT They are not excluded in this country or Canada.
RWS I thought it would be right to say the very best is for them as well as for others.
JT Why should it not be? They begin to understand. They are to behave in the meetings, too.
CHH Is there not a grave responsibility on the part of the parents in connection with Deuteronomy 6, “And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thy heart; and thou shalt impress them on thy sons, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou goest on the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up”. Parents are to impress their sons. They are to be taught.
JT Very good.
CP Do we not get an example of it in David, “We heard of it at Ephratah”?
JT “We found it in the fields of the wood”. There was great purpose of heart with David.
EBM We see that in Daniel himself, “Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not pollute himself with the king’s delicate food”.
JT Quite so. Showing that he was a leader. He purposes in his heart, he determined not to do it. The idea of saying no to what is wrong and yes to what is right, he purposed in his heart. He was [p. 214] supported.
SMcC What you have said as to leadership is very important. We often speak of leadership; the moral side, keeping us free from defilement, is most important in our localities.
JT Perhaps you can give us some illustration in Detroit; not that I would make a personal remark, but I think it is a right thing to demand an illustration of it.
SMcC If we should see a group of young people getting together to do a certain thing that would not promote spiritual progress, should not a lead be given, such as in Daniel, in regard to that?
JT Quite so, and not only locally, but in the gatherings where the young people come to the meetings, let the Spirit of God come in and help in such things.
CCT Is that the thought in regard to verse 9? “And God granted Daniel favour and mercy before the prince of the eunuchs”. Is that the outcome of leadership among us in the young?
JT So that we can do much that can be done. We see it, we begin to do it, and God comes in to help and God is ready to help at all times.
JGH You were speaking of the importance of a model. Do you think that is to be found in each generation? Paul was a model, and tells Timothy he was to be a model.
JT Quite so, each generation. We should try to find out how that works in the history of the testimony. We have to come down from Paul, the earlier leader, leading the brethren, down to the Reformation; then God later comes in after long centuries and raises up one who brings in a revival; and it still stands and is going through to the end, and the young ones ought to be ready for it.
JMcK In the fourth verse it says, “youths in whom was no blemish ...”. And then there is the [p. 215] matter in the New Testament of presenting our bodies a living sacrifice.
JT Good. We should get into that by looking through Daniel. It says of Daniel’s three companions that they yielded their bodies. They did not save their bodies. If it was necessary they would offer their bodies for the sake of preserving the truth, but God saved their bodies.
VL Is the matter of saving worked out in Noah? God shut him in the ark. The idea of the Spirit being with him is seen in the dove perhaps. We have been shown to bring the Spirit into our households with the young in mind.
JT For the saving of his house. Nothing is said about any young ones in his house, not one mentioned. He “prepared an ark for the saving of his house”. There were his wife and his sons and his sons’ wives, eight persons saved, no children. It is to be noted too, that the ark was prepared for the saving of his house, but still there were no children. That is a thing to be noted and enquired into, as to why it was so because a very bad state of things had arisen. The sons of God came to the daughters of men and worked wickedness and that had to be met, and in Noah it was met, I am not sure that everybody will understand what I am saying, but I am sure there are those here who do. We have to see to it that right principles are preserved even if there are no children actually, and they must be extended to others, if they are not our own children.
EBM You said just now God came in for Daniel, “God granted Daniel favour and mercy before the prince of the eunuchs”.
JT God comes in to help. He ever does, in any way and any time in general, but at the same time He looks for the people involved to help too, and take the initiative. That is what God looks to see, and then He [p. 216] helps.
JB Do you get that in 2 Chronicles 34 where it speaks of Josiah? “And in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father; and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem”, and so on.
JT So that his life is linked up together in groups. He did not live to be very old, but what happened in his life from his eighth year is grouped together, so that he is a model, I believe, and became the occasion of the revival in Israel. In Josiah we have one of them, there are several, but this is one of them. That is one thing to keep in mind, the idea of the growth of a youth from the time he is a boy; Josiah was a boy and grew up to be a young man and a middle-aged man, you might say, and it shows how growth, spiritual growth, develops in a christian and how he becomes useful.
TU Would verse 8 encourage us when things are right to follow our own convictions? “And Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not ...”, and then in the next verse it seems God honours his having the courage of his convictions.
JT Quite so.
CHH Reverting to leadership again, should that not be seen for every city among the elder sisters? It speaks of the elder women admonishing the younger women.
JT Very good. We have it in the case of Phoebe, and in Hannah certainly, and that sister mentioned in the book of Luke, the old sister Anna. She was a model. She spoke of the Lord to everyone who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
WHC I have been impressed by your remarks in connection with the sisters. Paul in speaking to Timothy speaks of the “unfeigned faith which has been in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and in thy mother Eunice”. He is carrying [p. 217] on.
JT I think that is to be particularly noted, coming down the line of ministry we are on, how sisters may be raised up of God. Here were three generations. The question has been raised generally as to the sisters and how the sisters ought to be with the brethren, and then we are also dealing with the children. How they come in for growth, beginning with eight years of age, and where they took away the boy alive and were not a little comforted. The boy evidently was looking out of the window. He was allowed to do it.
CHH So the younger sisters among us would be greatly helped through the care of the elder sisters. The elder sisters would take that responsibility on and help the young ones.
JT I would say that fully. Look around and see what can be done in the right direction.
CP Do we not see it in Naomi? She says, “My daughter, shall I not seek rest for thee ... ?”
JT Just so.
JW Daniel’s words to the prince of the eunuchs emphasises the principle of leadership, and it extended ten days.
JT Ten days, the full test of responsibility. It is not twelve, it is ten, the full sense of responsibility.
JW They stand over against the other youths.
JT If it is administrative responsibility, it is twelve, but, if ten, it is responsibility by itself.
EJM Speaking of sisters, in Acts 12, Peter comes to the house of Mary, the mother of John, where a prayer meeting was going on, and a sister by the name of Rhoda told them that Peter was at the door and insisted upon it in spite of the opposition of others.
JT She recognised the voice of the ministry, not the voice of anyone, but the voice of Peter. We recognise the voice, it [p. 218] is important.
EJM She evidently was at the prayer meeting.
JT The others, while they prayed, did not believe what they were praying for. Rhoda became a leader.
PW Speaking of sisters, Esther did things that were right. She said to Mordecai, it would be at the risk of her life to go in, but when she did she found favour from the king. God wants us to do things. I thought this might link up with what is in mind now.
JT She was ready to sacrifice her life.
PW Finally she went in and found favour with the king. She saved God’s people.
JT There is another thing that might be added to that, no prayer to God is mentioned in Esther. In the book she did not have to pray; she did other things and, dear brethren, prayer is not enough, prayer is not everything. There are other things that have to be done and we must take account of it and see that they are done.
CCT The young maiden in Naaman’s time was able to speak about the prophet. Would that be something done by the Spirit?
JT Her master should be with the prophet in Samaria; he should go there. That was her thought, she had feelings about it, too, and he did go eventually.
JP Esther fasted.
JT It does not say she prayed, but she fasted. I do not know how much there is of it now. I do not see much of it.
JP Daniel denied himself.
JT The thing is to do the thing needed. If it is needed, see that it is done. You say I will go and pray about it. That is not all, there are other things to be done, and we must see that they are done.
JK Is it not with Daniel a definite committal? He purposed in his heart, and he followed it up, for [p. 219] he said what should be given them to eat and to drink. Then he said, Look upon our countenances after ten days. Would it be right to say he followed up the exercise?
JT Quite so. We should see in the next chapter how things were done by Daniel with his companions. That will have to come in the next meeting.
CHH Would this appeal to the prince of the eunuchs be a principle for us when it is necessary for the saints to appeal to the powers that be? I was thinking of Paul and his nephew. He appealed to the chiliarch for his protection. Then Esther appeals to the king and here they appeal. The prince of the eunuchs is set over these youths and they appealed to him as though they recognised and submitted to his position. Paul, also, recognised the position of the chiliarch. So, too, Mordecai recognised the rightness of appealing to the king. There is difficulty experienced in some quarters as to appealing to the Senators in connection with amending the law relative to the union matter.
JT Very good. It says in verse 16, “So the steward took away their delicate food, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse. As for these four youths, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom; and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams”, showing how God was working in all matters, “And at the end of the days that the king had said he should bring them in, the prince of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar. And the king spoke with them; and among them all was found none like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah: and they stood before the king. And in all matters of judicious wisdom, as to which the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the scribes and magicians that were in all his realm”. And then it says, “And Daniel continued unto the first year of king Cyrus”. So we have a model before us and how it continues. It is a great matter to continue, helpful to the saints; and waiting on God about it too that He may allow it to continue.
CP Does the pulse speak of the word of God? The will of God set forth in the word of God and man living by the word of God.
JT It is the kind of food that would be despised as compared with the delicate food. It is a food that God can use despite its being despised by others.
NB Why is there no reference to the water? In verse 12 Daniel says prove thy servants and give us pulse to eat and water to drink, but in verse 16 there is no reference to water.
JT I suppose there is no need to mention it. I suppose the pulse did the work by itself, so to speak.
WHC Is it not an important thing that we have purpose of heart? It was true of Daniel and Moses. When Moses became great, he refused to be called son of Pharaoh’s daughter. I was desirous for the sake of the many children here today that we should seek to meet every exercise that comes up, with true purpose of heart.
JT What we have to say always is to bring God in. Is there any room for God to come in? The special thing is, is there room for God? I would say that is the point to come to. God is ready to come in if He is sought, if we want Him.
EJM So that in reference to the way these four men stood, I was thinking of 1 Peter 3: 15, “But sanctify the Lord the Christ in your hearts, and be always prepared to give an answer to every one that asks you to give an account of the hope that is in you, but with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that as to that in which they speak against you as evildoers, they may be ashamed who calumniate your good conversation in Christ”.
JT [p. 221] Just so. That is to say, Peter comes in peculiarly, and Peter fits in fully with Paul. Now the thought of how God can be reckoned upon is seen, I think, in the idea of the twenty-four elders; instead of twelve, twenty-four. The idea of elders comes in and we should count on them.
VL Would it not be fair to say all the truth as to the Spirit, at the present time, would give particular help to any that are younger to bring God in by turning to the Spirit in a simple way? Would that be referred to in that they were ten times better?
JT The question arises now as to what God is graciously doing, extending back say fifty years. That is to say He, the Spirit, has brought in eternal life, the great question of the truth of the assembly, the service of God; and He has brought in the sonship of Christ too, and now He is bringing in something about Himself. Are we acquainted with it? Are the young people acquainted with what the Lord is saying to us in relation to the Spirit? He is down here really to do things for us. He dwells with you, the Lord says, and shall be in you. He is now available to us.
RWS Is it time now to illustrate what we should ask the Spirit for and bring to the Spirit? Should it be in relation to spiritual things or may we address the Spirit in relation to the things concerning our ordinary life?
JT I would say in the case of ordinary affairs I would refer to the Father. There is one God and Father. “There are gods many, and lords many, yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. The Spirit is not mentioned there, but we know He is mentioned elsewhere, and I would say the Spirit of God is here. The Spirit of God is sent from heaven and is here to be available to us and, therefore, I think [p. 222] of Him now as to the service of God and all that pertains to it. He has not been brought forward very much, but now He is brought forward by Himself peculiarly. He is here to do things for us and He dwells with us and shall be in us. Every one should know about it and make use of Him, and bring Him into matters in relation to our families and other things too; that is the way I would look at it. I would see what related to the Father and to the Son and what relates to the Spirit, and know what They are usable for, speaking reverently.
CHH Would that scripture in Corinthians help in that? “But there are distinctions of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are distinctions of services, and the same Lord; and there are distinctions of operations, but the same God who operates all things in all. But to each the manifestation of the Spirit is given for profit. For to one, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; and to a different one faith, in the power of the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healing in the power of the same Spirit; and to another operations of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to a different one kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues. But all these things operates the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each in particular according as he pleases”.
JT That is a good way to answer all this, and I wonder if we understand how these things work out, and how God is sometimes used as Father, for there is that side, what He does; and the Son, what He does; and the Spirit, what He does. We have to learn, speaking reverently, how to use the divine Persons, and according to knowledge.
JP Would Romans 8 help? “But if, by the Spirit, ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye [p. 223] shall live, for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”.
JT Very good. The Spirit will help you in regard to the flesh. The Spirit works against the flesh and the Spirit has to have room to operate and we can thus, by the Spirit, put to death the deeds of the body.
TU Is it proper to pray to the Holy Spirit?
JT I think it is proper to pray to the Holy Spirit. Look at Acts 10, how divine Persons may be regarded and used, and whether the Spirit is not involved in all that.
NB Practically speaking, we need much help to speak about the Spirit. Many of the brethren are not yet at all free.
JT What are we not free about? The Spirit of God is God Himself and He is here to look after things, to give help, and to operate, so why should not we look into the fact and see whether He is ready to be used in a certain way? Why cannot we use Him now as in Acts 10?
CHH Are you referring to when the sheet was let down and there was a voice from heaven without saying who is speaking? And then it says, “The Spirit said to him”.
JT Our brother asks, is it right to pray to Him? What does Peter say? He says something to Him. He answers the voice. And Peter said, “In no wise, Lord”; the Spirit is asking him something and he says something to Him. Peter said, “In no wise, Lord; for I have never eaten anything common or unclean. And there was a voice again the second time to him. What God has cleansed, do not thou make common. And this took place thrice, and the vessel was straightway taken up into heaven”. It is the Spirit’s voice and Peter speaks to Him as if He were to be [p. 224] spoken to.
CHH It was an angel that appeared to Cornelius. It says, “saw plainly in a vision, about the ninth hour of the day, an angel of God coming unto him”. Those communications, would you say, were evidently not so close?
JT Yes, an angel, but I was speaking of the communications to Peter, what he says to the voice.
CHH “The Spirit said to him, Behold three men seek thee; but rise up, go down, and go with them, nothing doubting, because I have sent them”.
RWS In Ezekiel 2 the prophet converses with the Spirit. It says, “And the Spirit entered into me when he spoke unto me”.
JT Quite so. These are important scriptures to have before us.
JW He went up on the house-top to pray, a direct allusion to the Spirit?
JT Quite so.
CHH “Ye know how it is unlawful for a Jew to be joined or come to one of a strange race, and to me God has shewn to call no man common or unclean”.
JT Showing how the divine Persons are available to us; from experience we know how we can speak to them. That is important in having experience with God.
CHH And then Cornelius says, “Now therefore we are all present before God to hear all things that are commanded thee of God”.
EGM Chapter 11, verse 15, “And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them”, indicates that it was God, the Holy Spirit, acting.
JT We know He does that.
TU I was wondering if there would be the principle of prayer in regard to Rebecca, as ministering to the Spirit. She addresses the question to the servant. Would it be the principle of prayer in that she had a desire?
[p. 225] JT The actual types are just as important and instructive as the New Testament is in direct teaching as in Peter, James and John. You can use that scripture about the servant in Abraham’s house as a type of the Holy Spirit.
JK Would the scripture in Luke come in? “Say to the master of the house”.
JT Quite so. And, “How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”
AB It says in Luke 2 in relation to Simeon, “It was divinely communicated to him by the Holy Spirit”. And then later, “He received him into his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now thou lettest thy bondman go, according to thy word, in peace”. He is speaking to the Spirit, because it was the Spirit who communicated it to him.
JT Quite so.
JP So Daniel would be a model for us. He was in the good of current ministry. He understood from the books.
JT That is an important point, we shall come to that in chapter 9, God willing.
JP I was speaking of it as to whether we are familiar with the written ministry in regard to the Spirit now.
SMcC I think what is in the minds of some is that in the notes of the Auckland meetings someone asked you if you would pray to the Spirit, and the reply was, ‘I would not pray to the Spirit’.
JT At that time, I was not clear myself about it as I have been since. If you are not clear, it is right to make it clear that you are hesitant.
SMcC I am sure what you say is helpful, I do not think we should abide by statements made years ago and hold fast to them, saying the truth is authoritative and hold to them. There may be [p. 226] adjustment.
JT I do not think Mr. Darby was as clear about that point as we are now. God has helped us and I know no one who would be more delighted than he were he here. He would be delighted, he would say, thank God.
EJM I believe be said in one of his letters, ‘I have no objection to call the Holy Ghost Lord as a general title in glory and Godhead’.
JT I think there was something like that.
RWS Paul says, “Especially the parchments”, would that be the latest ministry perhaps — notes sent around before publishing? We should be on the qui vive to get the latest.
CHH Mr. Raven said if we could regard the Spirit in an objective way He would be an object of worship, but he said we cannot do that. But since then we have been taught we can view Him objectively.
JT Quite so. We have a book on that point.