READINGS ON DANIEL (2)
READINGS ON DANIEL (2)
JT In accord with the proposal made for these readings, it is well to notice the moral side in Daniel and his three companions, the companions have to be noted in this chapter. It is most important that before he attempts to open up the interpretation to the king, Daniel goes to God Himself. He praises God first. God has to come first, and the children are to be brought up to give God His place. So it is said in verse 17, “Then Daniel went to his house, and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions”, (Notice he calls them by their proper names.) “That they would desire [p. 235] mercies of the God of the heavens concerning this secret; that Daniel and his companions should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of the heavens”. This is what I am alluding to. He considered for God first, that He must have His portion. “Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever; For wisdom and might are his”, and so on to the end of verse 23. This is the tribute that Daniel renders to God in the sense of service and praise.
EGM You called our attention to the fact that Daniel called his companions by their original names rather than by the names given them in Babylon.
JT I think their names were probably from God. As we baptise our children to the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are baptised formally, and that requires that God is to have His place with the children.
EGM It gives us a reason then for looking upon the brethren as we see them in the family as God gives them names. W e look upon them [p. 228] in that way.
JT So they are baptised in that name and are received or taken into the assembly, taken into fellowship in their own names and each is to shine in that name, and Daniel shines here and his three companions.
CHH The principle of leadership is seen in Daniel as he takes these others into confidence. Paul in writing to the Philippians says, “You have us for a model”. He uses the plural.
JT And so does Daniel here, he uses the plural.
TU Would there be any relation to leading in piety, not only for young men, but for all of us, leading in piety?
JT Just so.
CCT Does it show that the leaders should have confidence in others to bring the question to them?
JT That is exactly how things should work out. We can see in the gospels how the Lord set out the principle of following. He said in the end of the gospel of John, for instance, “Follow thou me”.
LES Would the Lord’s words at the end of Matthew 11 where He says “Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes”, link on here?
JT Just so, very nicely. Does He not say, “I praise thee, Father”?
LES He would give God His rightful place.
JT Surely that would be the word for us in these democratic times when men claim everything; that He should begin with God. That is the way, bring God into everything.
CHM Would you say that this is a secret? God allows us to know what there is; it adds to the greatness of God.
JT Now you are bringing up what means much to us as to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and how we are to speak to Them, and how we are to [p. 229] serve Them, and what apprehension we have of Them. So John says, “No one has seen God at any time”. Well, what a thought that is to get into our minds! “No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”. That is the point to be constantly in our minds and before us in every meeting, we might say, that brings in the assembly and the service of God, where is God, what is God, and what are the names that are proper to use, and what are we using? In Revelation 1 it says, He has “made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father”. All these things are to be considered, and they enter into every meeting we have, whether those on the first day of the week, or Bible readings, or prayer meetings; every meeting we have we must bring God into it. What do we understand about the Being we are now speaking to?
CHM Would that account for the very dependent way in which Daniel approached this great matter in the secret of his soul with God?
JT You can see he had been with God before; he had been with God, I would say. The whole book would lead to that understanding on our part. Who is God and what name should be used as to Him? Where is He and so forth? Surely all these are questions that have to be considered and looked into, using whatever is available for us to make use of, such as books.
SMcC Would intelligence be suggested in what is said here, he blessed the God of the heavens (verse 19), “Then Daniel blessed the God of the heavens”? The throne has been transferred from Jerusalem the earthly centre.
JT I think so, very much so indeed. And what comes down to us now, as to this country and all countries of the earth, is what part God has in these countries, and what reverence has to be yielded to [p. 230] Him, and what terms used in our reference to Him. I think the matter before us now opens up a wonderful sphere of instruction for us, and what is available to us is to help us reach all of these things, to be intelligent as to them, and to know what to say to God, and when to say it, and what applies at a given time.
LES So it bears on the thought of “from eternity to eternity thou art God”.
RWS Does the order of the divine Persons in the economy bear upon the place these have in the service, I mean as to the service generally?
JT That is what I am trying to say. What are Their names, how to address Them, the circumstances in which the address is made, and so on. So that this chapter, and the whole book of Daniel indeed, opens up a wonderful vista of instruction to us, but we need to attend to it and to follow things up that are said in meetings like this, and written too, in the way of notes of readings, so that we should all be instructed and intelligent as to the whole service of God.
SMcC Would the God of the heavens referred to here fit in with the Father as the governor of the universe? It says among other things in Ephesians 4, “One God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all”. That is an allusion to Him as Governor of the universe.
JT Quite so. One God and Father over all — universal. We have a peculiar place as being His house.
AB What the scribes and magicians say is actually so. They say, “There is not a man upon the earth that can shew the king’s matter”. And then again they say, “Except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh”. So what we are saying now is to bring out the truth in relation to the God of the heavens.
JT [p. 231] And then what is there in the idea of the universe of God? Once there was a certain man in New York who said that the universe was bounded by God. I thought it was a prime expression. The universe is bounded by God. Well, the epistle to the Hebrews says that God made the worlds, not the world, by Christ. That is wonderful, I think, and we should look into it. We are in it. What account can we give of it as we bring it into our worship and service?
SMcC And is the Spirit particularly with us to help us in regard to this knowledge of God as you are now referring to it?
JT That, I am sure, is the point. So that the Lord says in John 14, “I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you”.
FW Is the point here the addressing of God known in a particular setting?
JT The point is God made known.
FW Daniel addresses Him as the God of the heavens. What came out brought that particular point into view, that God was the God of the heavens, and therefore he would address Him thus. Would that indicate to us that we are to address divine Persons intelligently in particular settings?
JT Quite so. I might say as to the creation we look to Moses, what he wrote, but we have to wait for the Lord Jesus to get a complete understanding of what is written. I mean to say the gospel of John has to be linked up with the book of Genesis because they are intimately connected. The creation is intimately connected with the revelation of God Himself, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He
[p. 232] was in the beginning with God. All things received being through him, and without him not one thing received being which has received being. In him was life, and the life was the light of men”. That is the point, that men are in mind, not angels or any other beings, but men. We are the ones to get the revelation.
FW I can see that, but what I had in mind in referring to Matthew 28 was how God is revealed in that particular setting, and, therefore, would we address divine Persons in that particular setting and not eliminate one of them at all?
JT Well, I suppose that is right.
FW The question was raised this morning as to the propriety of addressing the Holy Spirit, but, if we address divine Persons as revealed, God is revealed in three Persons. Therefore, we would be able to address Them all.
JT Quite so, that is good. Therefore, we have to reconcile Matthew with John, and then reconcile Genesis because Genesis tells us about the creation, whereas Matthew particularly has to do with the assembly, and John has to do with life in the assembly.
VCL Is there not a suggestion when Daniel says in verse 23, “I thank thee, and I praise thee, O God of my fathers, Who hast given me wisdom and might”, that he was taking account of all that God had before done and that there was an addition now in connection with what God was prepared to be with him? I was thinking of what God had been to his fathers and then what he was to Daniel. Are we not warranted in seeing that in this day of the Spirit we are perhaps getting additional thoughts of what God is, if we are alert as to what is coming out in the power of the Spirit? You said once or twice that it was clear that they had the full light of worshipping the Spirit in the early days, and should [p. 233] we not be encouraged today that God is giving us a special touch at the end of the dispensation, if our ears are alert to hear it?
JT I was thinking of the basic things that have come out in the last fifty years, eternal life in 1889, the sonship of Christ, that He became Son, the only begotten He is called, and then now what has come to us as to the Spirit. The question is whether we are all following these lines of truth, dear brethren. If we are not, we are defective as to the whole basis of truth which is brought down to us.
RWS You were speaking the other night of three outstanding features of the truth, the sonship of Christ, the service of God, and the Holy Spirit. Are you adding eternal life?
JT It is more basic, to work into what we have already mentioned.
CHH Would you say that the Holy Spirit was keeping Himself in the background until God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ had Their proper places? He is only mentioned once in Colossians, but the glories of Christ are enlarged upon. When we come to Ephesians, we get the Holy Spirit in every chapter.
JT That is what we have had lately. Ephesians is the book we should look to for the full development of what has come to light recently and, I believe, what has come to light is the Spirit and the place He has. The brethren in the early days rather thought the Spirit should be left out in the sense of serving and speaking to Him, but in the Old Testament, Numbers 21, we have, “Rise up, well! sing unto it”. The elders of Israel were to sing unto it. That is warrant for what we are talking about, that the Spirit is to be spoken to and addressed in that sense.
JW Paul says, “O depth of riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!”. Then there is the passage in Revelation 4 where the twenty-four elders [p. 234] fall down in acknowledgement of the greatness of God and say, “Thou art worthy, O our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honour and power; for thou hast created all things, and for thy will they were, and they have been created”. Would it help us to work out the ways of God in this connection?
JT You are speaking of Revelation 4. The assemblies were addressed in the earlier chapters, and we come in chapter 4 to where John is summoned up to heaven and he sees there a throne established and twenty-four elders there and four living creatures. We see how the services were carried on in the Lord’s own thoughts towards the assemblies, while chapter 4 brings out the thought of going up into heaven, and the four-and-twenty elders, the four living creatures, the throne established, and then that all things were created by Him and for Him, “for thy will they were, and they have been created”. I think all that is very beautifully linked up in the book of Revelation and, therefore, a great link is established with the book of Daniel. Can we not get something out of this wonderful chapter before us, this tribute by Daniel, “Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever” — the name of God!
EBM Do we not get light as to My Father and your Father, My God and your God? What do you understand as to God dwelling in “unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor is able to see”?
JT Well, it is a wonderful thing to think of, showing how John comes in to reinforce the truth in Matthew as to the assembly and the truth in Mark as to the service of God and the truth in Luke as to the gospel. That is all I would say about that at this time. But there is so much in this chapter that is open to us in this reading and it is a question whether we can just take it up and in patience ponder it before we finish this reading.
EBM Would the God of the heavens take in the three Persons? It says they sought mercies of the God of the heavens. Would that take in the three Persons?
JT You mean that we should assume that it should take in the three Persons? There is the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. I think that is the way intelligently to speak. They are definite Persons and each is addressed according to His own name according to how He functions, speaking reverently — the Father and the Son and the Spirit.
SMcC Does it not help in relation to that, what light we have in our minds and what we say? We may speak to one divine Person, but there is light in our minds as to the whole Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.
JT Very good, because God has given us different faculties and, therefore, if He has done that, they are to be used and we begin with Himself in using them. I am thankful for what you have said. It is a question of the light you have when you say, Father, Son or Spirit, because we are in the realm of light, and in Him was life and the life was the light of men. The light is for men.
AB So there is something here in verses 18 and 19; it was the God of the heavens, but the phrase I am calling attention to now is, “Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever”. That is the renown of God as Daniel knew Him.
JT Just so. As Daniel knew Him.
JW So in the dream given to the monarch about the great image. Daniel calls attention to the greatness of God; that would be filling his soul.
JT Just so. Go thy way, Daniel. He is a man that can be trusted. We are led to think of the transfer from the light that was in Israel when there [p. 236] were wonderful terms used, from Moses downwards, but you are led to think of what God had in His mind in taking up Nebuchadnezzar and making him the greatest of all kings up to then, a king of kings, the title that really belongs to Christ, transferred to Nebuchadnezzar in this book. One is wondering about it and hoping that all the dear brethren would come to wonder about it. There is something for us in the book of Daniel, the ordering of the earth, the kingdoms, and the political side of things that we all have to do with, so that we may know how to address God, the Father and the Son and the Spirit and give Them Their place as Scripture presents it. We do not know what the conditions were before the economy, but we know God was there in the beginning. God created the heavens and the earth and that is all we can say, as it were, but “let us make man in our image, after our likeness”. That was plural and indicates that there was more than one Person. So that the question now is how are we to bring that out and keep ourselves right in regard to political aspects and all that, so that we please God in relation to the present situation, the cities, the great commercial centres; how we comport ourselves and carry on the service of God at the same time.
SMcC Does that word that you referred to, the economy, not touch our hearts? It is a scriptural word, showing how God, infinitely great as He is, has come into a range of things in which in our finite capacity we can know Him.
JT Very touching, in our finite capacity God is pleased to come in, and you have realised it and it is very important in your mind, and God comes in and meets us just where we are. He is such a God as that, very touching.
FW I was seeking to enquire in regard to statements that have been made in various meetings as to the necessity of our being intelligent in our [p. 237] addressing divine Persons. Do we not do that in a discriminating way in regard to this matter spoken of as to the powers that be, as to what is going on in the world, and how we would turn to God about it? In this, what light is there to direct us as to whom to address?
JT Well, now suppose you go over the ground as to your occupation. You have been a long time on the earth and you are in business in Australia and you know what is going on in England and America and you know what each one of us has to do, what would you say? You have to go to your business on Monday morning. How do you address and think of God?
FW Well, if you ask me as to myself, I think of the Father, but is that consistent with the truth?
JT I think it would be, I think of the passage quoted a moment ago, “One God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all”. It is universal. You have to do with the God and Father of all. To bring it down to us, on Monday night you have to think of that because of the few brethren you meet with to pray. But in the morning to whom do you turn as you are going to transact business, make a sale, or the like of that?
FW In my own mind I address God as Father.
J.T. Why not God Himself?
FW I do, I say God, but should I address God in the sense of God or as Father?
JT Then the Son, of course, is God too. He is called God according to 1 John 5, “He is the true God and eternal life”. And you turn away from ordinary business affairs on Monday morning and you think of what your own portion is. Then when you come down to the evening you have the prayer meeting and you think of the few brethren that you are walking with and you have to be separate from all the rest [p. 238] in that position.
RWS In Acts 4, “And having been let go, they came to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. And they, having heard it, lifted up their voice with one accord to God, and said, Lord, thou art the God who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them”, and so forth.
JT That helps us, I am trying to link on with what has been said, really involving that, to try to bring out what each of us has to do in our business in America and on the continent. Our brother knows what it is to have to do with men and how he addresses God. I refer to him because he has a great deal of experience and it is for him to say all he can to help the brethren.
CHM As to addressing the Father as to our business at the beginning of the week, would that be as children addressing a heavenly Father?
JT The fact of the matter is I ought to have begun with the Lord’s day, because that is the first day of the week and that should govern all the other days of the week as found in christianity. It is, therefore, a question of the first day of the week and we should take our bearings from the first day of the week and follow through the whole week and see how you address God.
CHM In that way we would be starting with the exalted thoughts of God the first day of the week.
JT The day in which He raised the Lord Jesus from the dead. He was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father. That is the first day of the week and that should surely illuminate all the other days.
CHH Would you regard God differently in your occupation than you would in your service? I was thinking of the distinction. The Lord says, My Father, your Father, My God, your God. It comes within our range though inscrutable. I was noticing in the first book of the Psalms the expression, “My God”, is used thirty-three times in different connections as though it is in the sphere in which God has come within the range of the writer.
JT I want to get Mr. W, to work the thing out, what titles he uses in relation to God.
FW You mean the first day of the week?
JT I should begin with the Lord’s day, the first day of the week.
FW I was thinking of these remarks of yours in connection with Israel on the special occasions of the sabbath day, the instructions given there besides that which they were to do every day, as if there would be on the Lord’s day something additional to that which we do every day. Would there not be our own personal address to God at the beginning of the day and then as we go on we come to the special features of the Lord’s day?
JT Speaking of the Lord’s day, the first day of the week, the place that the Lord Himself has on that day, and then carry that through to the Monday and the Tuesday. I think it is very important as we are dealing with young people here coming on to take the place of the elders, I should add too, that I have not death in mind, but the Lord’s coming and His appearing, and am not thinking of dying at all. I am speaking of that parenthetically, trying to bring you into the whole matter involving the Lord’s day as well as the first day of the week. The Lord’s day is the first day and the day in which Christ was raised by the glory of the Father. We must have the greatest thoughts of light on that day especially, and then Mondays and Tuesdays, and so on, trying to get the different features of the economy and the service of God so that the young people will know what to say and do and when they are to be said.
FW Would you help us in the difference between our individual addressing of God and the address [p. 240] in the assembly?
JT You have your reading in the morning before you get up, or after, and then your official reading of the Scriptures in your house and, of course, you would address God as Father because He is Father and cares for us in every respect. That is how I would work it out day after day. If we do that we shall be more illuminated in the terms to use in addressing divine Persons and when we are to use them and how we are to use them. And when we come to the prayer meeting, we ask God for things; and on Tuesday, an address maybe; and the week passes and the other meetings, and we have what we call the city reading and we would include all the brethren.
RWS Would Monday be the Father, and Tuesday the ministry meeting, the Spirit, the peculiar place the Spirit has in prophetic ministry?
JT Well, it would.
JP In regard to your practical affairs, we cannot bring out all our practical affairs, but we might ask the Lord to help us in our spirits. The Holy Spirit helps us in what we say.
JT Quite so; He helps us in all these things. We began on the thought of the young people here and they are coming forward and they should know how to speak and when to speak and where to speak so that they regulate things accordingly; the household is brought into that and all else.
EJM In the passage in James it says, “Go to now, ye who say, Today or tomorrow will we go into such a city and spend a year there, and traffic and make gain”. That does not bring the Lord in in helping us in our affairs of the day.
JT Quite so. We cannot say we cannot bring all the divine Persons in or any one of Them in connection with the same circumstances.
SMcC It is very interesting that a small epistle like James refers in various ways to the Father of [p. 241] lights, the Lord of glory, and the Spirit who has taken up His abode within us.
JT Beautiful, I have thought of that a lot. I would be glad if you would mention about others. These small epistles are very like the minor prophets of the Old Testament, every one of them has a speciality.
NB In regard again to our everyday life, we have in Colossians, “And everything, whatever ye may do in word or in deed, do all things in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father by him”. And then a little further, “Whatsoever ye do, labour at it heartily, as doing it to the Lord”.
JT So that the thought comes to you in the division of the weeks and the days that we have available to us, the thought comes to us as to how varied they are and how unlimited we are. We are not tied up to the Old Testament, to mere religious terms; we become accustomed to addressing divine Persons and we become broader in our thoughts and more affectionate, and love enters into everything, and we can turn as James does to the Lord of glory. The apostles were formed in love; love is the basis of everything.
VCL Would you not, therefore, urge upon us that we should all come to speaking terms with each of the divine Persons personally and be free to address Them in the assembly?
JT Quite so.
JGH Do you think the Spirit who “searches all things, even the depths of God”, searches our own hearts too? Psalm 139 says, “Jehovah, thou hast searched me, and known me”. Would that be the Spirit there?
JT Quite so, “The Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God”.
JMcK Jude gives us a beautiful reference, “Building yourselves up on your most holy faith,
[p. 242] praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, awaiting the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life”.
JT Quite so, that is one of the smaller epistles. That is like one of the minor prophets.
TU Do we get the blending of names, “Wherefore come out from the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord, and touch not what is unclean, and I will receive you; and I will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be to me for sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty”?
JT “Ye shall be to me for sons and daughters”.
FLM I would like to know whether the Lord would come in in my daily occupation. I would do it as unto the Lord. Would not those relations in my business come under the thought of Lord?
JT I think so, and so on the first day of the week, the whole week has that character. You may have to do things of that kind on the first day of the week, may have to travel, for instance, and the variety is so great. You can bring each one of the divine Persons into any feature of the truth that comes out.
EJM So if we have to do with the Lord on the Lord’s day, you do not have that cease when Monday morning comes. The Lord carries through the week.
JT You use any of the titles of the divine Persons in any given circumstances. It is a question of the circumstances, the light that you have. We, having the fullest light, know the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The light we have enables us to use any One in any given circumstance.
FW Is there help in this relation that whether it be the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit, you can see each of Them as [p. 243] God?
JT That is very good, it is a right thing that you are not merely using them for your own convenience.
CP Can each of Them be called Lord, the Father and the Son and the Spirit?
JT I think so, only the Lord Jesus is said to be made both Lord and Christ. Any one of the divine Persons can be spoken of as Lord.
TU There was one mother wanting her two sons placed one on the right hand and one on the left, but the Lord said it is not Mine to give, it is the Father’s.
JT The Lord regulated the whole position by that answer. At the same time you can speak to the Lord as God as well. We are dealing with inscrutable things and we cannot get around them and you have to bow your head and say, I do not know. We are dealing with inscrutable things in the Father and Son and Spirit.
JW You would advise the young to read the ministry, “The Lord is faithful, who shall establish you”.
JT I think we have to come down to that, and to get back to Mr. W.’s remark. I am endeavouring to get Mr. W, to say how he gets along in addressing divine Persons in his life, because he has a great deal to do with business, and a great deal to do with the assembly.
EBM Would you say there is a difference between now and Daniel’s day? Revelation has come in and the three divine Persons have been revealed. He addressed the God of the heavens, I was thinking about the unions today. We pray much about that and having to face the authorities. Would we not get help in that?
JT Certainly, I think very much so, because it is so prominent and enters into everything in our business affairs, so we get help peculiarly in the knowledge we have of God and anyone having experience could be reckoned on to say what [p. 244] is right.
EJM Would I be permitted to ask Mr. W, to whom they pray in Australia as to the difficulties of the union, to the Father, God, or the Lord?
FW I do not know whether I could answer that in an intelligent way. We are all seeking to get help as to which one of the divine Persons to address in regard to specific matters. I think it would be right to say the brethren turn to God; we have the Father in mind and we address Him through the Lord Jesus and by the Holy Spirit and we endeavour to do it in an intelligent way.
JT I think that is right. This is a long chapter, forty-nine verses, and ends with this: “Then the king made Daniel great, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon. And Daniel requested of the king, and he appointed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego over the administration of the province of Babylon. And Daniel was in the gate of the king”. So the whole matter is finished up that someone is at the gate of the king and others are appointed by his suggestion.
JMcK I would like to ask, going back to verse 16, which says, “Daniel went in, and requested of the king that he would give him time”. Then he goes to his house and makes the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah that they would desire mercies of the God of the heavens concerning this secret. What I had in mind was that in any matter relating to the union or such like where the situation is rigorous, we should go in and ask for time to make the matter known and ask for mercies.
JT I think that is very practical. So the secret came to Daniel. We are christians, we who have the Spirit of God are in the place where we can get the secret. We can do that which Daniel could not do,
[p. 245] we can enter the holiest at any time. Any individual of us is at liberty to enter the holiest.
VCL Is it worthy of note that not only does Daniel speak to God before he goes in to the king, but he also, when he comes into the king’s presence, confesses boldly to the king before he sets out the matter of the dream? Is that not an important matter in dealing with the world or the powers that be that we set out God boldly before we attempt to go further?
JT So that Daniel is qualifying for the remarkable service coming into his hand, and he can speak to the king about matters that refer to him too. So the gentiles are come into the position of rule in the world, for it was taken out of the hands of the Jews. They have the secrets. Washington has certain secrets that are being maintained in this country and I think that it is very important that we should all have this before us, especially the young people growing up in the midst of these things, knowing what to do and say and how to say it.
RWS There is so much said about the fourth kingdom and so little said about the others. We are in the days of this kingdom and yet, despite its power, we can go on with these wonderful things that are engaging us now. The stone cut out of the mountain without hands fills the earth and we can go on with spiritual things.
JT Well, I think we are living in a day of iron, there is more of this kind in our day than ever before and yet we can go on with the holy things of God. We can transfer authority to the Lord Jesus who is now in our midst.
CCT Is the reason we can go on, as you are saying, that we are connected with the kingdom that cannot be destroyed?
JT We have to do with these things. We should understand these things. Authority, the head of gold,
[p. 246] which he says Nebuchadnezzar was, is all transferred to Christ. Christ is going to take up the whole matter in the sense of government. In the meantime, He is willing to go along with the two or three that gather unto His name; He is in the midst of them, and all the secrets are there. We say quietly to ourselves, all that is going to be ours presently. That is just what we do say. We are to wait and learn to wait and be patient in waiting.
JW Is the principle of revelation what is seen here? “God has revealed to us by his Spirit”.
JT I am sure, that is just what we heard a minute ago, “The Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God”. We have the Lord Jesus and the Father; it is wonderful and it should affect every one of us that we have all these things in our very midst. The question, therefore, is, Are we patient in the midst of all that is around us and yet going on with God?
JW “Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh ...”
JT We will come to that on Lord’s day afternoon, I hope.
CHM You were referring to the two or three. It impresses you inasmuch as it comes in the gospel of Matthew.
JT Suitably in the gospel of Matthew.
CHM I was struck with your remark, in that way it runs parallel with the kingdom of the heavens.
CHH Is it not wonderful that God in every case responds where there is a request? Daniel prays to the God of the heavens and He makes the king favourable to them.
JT I think it is a great thing for the young people, as we said, to think of this little affair we have, but which is morally very, very great, what we are going on with, greater than any kingdom or empire. We have the secret and we have access to the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by the new and [p. 247] living way which He has dedicated for us through the veil, that is His flesh.
JB Would verse 28 of Hebrews 12 help us? — “Wherefore let us, receiving a kingdom not to be shaken, have grace, by which let us serve God acceptably with reverence and fear”.
JT That is just right, just exactly what we have here.
JP Would Daniel and his companions rise to a type of the assembly?
JT Just so. They suffer by themselves. You know on the next occasion they are the ones cast into the burning fiery furnace, and the Son of God comes in with them, the Son of God.
AB Would the reference to “without hands”, encourage our hearts in regard to inscrutability?
JT Just so. “Cut out without hands”. Very beautiful.
FW Would you say the very last sentence shows the position of the saints when they are with God?
JT We go to the assembly, that is where we get our strength. Many times we have spoken of it.
FW I had in mind Daniel was in the gate of the king, in the place of influence and government.
JT It is because we are with the true Governor of the world, and He is content to be with us for the little moment. Are we content to be with Him and not with the great things of this world?
EJM Does the word, “that which restrains”, refer to the assembly, indicating the great things to which we are united? We are identified with that which has a restraining influence on the evil current in the world.
JT I think, too, we said at Chicago that the powers that be restrain too. That is augmentary to the assembly, but the real power is with the assembly. So we can be thankful, for we can pray for the brethren and we can pray for the kings and [p. 248] such as are in authority because they augment what we are doing; and, in the meantime, we say to ourselves secretly, all the power belongs to us, all the great things that men have, if they be creatures of God, belong to us.
EJM And the secrets.
AB The kings and the presidents and the like would take advantage unless there was such a character of people in the kingdom.
JT They do, too. If they would tell the truth they would say that such and such a one is the one I can rely upon, especially in the wars that have taken place.
AB I was thinking of your reference, to appearing before the king this morning. What a sight before his eyes, “Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth”.