THE SERVICE OF ELIJAH (5)
[p. 379] THE SERVICE OF ELIJAH (5)
2 Kings 1: 1 - 18; 2 Kings 2: 1 - 25
JT No doubt the brethren wild discern what is in mind at this time in pursuing the subject into the second book of Kings. Of a truth what is mainly in view is to look at the ascension of Elijah. We have in chapter 1 one person who falls down through the lattice, and in chapter 2 another who goes up, that is, Elijah goes up. No doubt there is something for us to learn as to current events in the world, that is one falling down, a great personage falling down and another ascending, the latter pointing to the coming of the Lord, “The Lord himself, with an assembling shout, with archangel’s voice and with trump of God, shall descend from heaven; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we, the living who remain, shall be caught up together with them ... and thus we shall be always with the Lord”. So that I thought it would be wise to stress the ascension of Elijah at this time as well as what we have had in the first book of Kings, because there is much that the devil is bringing forward at the present time as to certain persons ascending to heaven. Terribly blasphemous things are being said, especially by the Roman Catholic Church, as to the virgin Mary — a terrible thing. We should be aware of it and be with God about it, because it only points to the last times, for we are in the last times.
RWS Earlier we have Elijah’s resignation and the Lord’s acceptance of it. How does this fit in now with that?
JT I think it shows that God is wonderfully gracious with His servants, especially men like Elijah. He is wonderfully gracious. And so Elijah is allowed to go on in the service even in the second book of Kings. He is allowed to continue. That ought to encourage each one of us who are serving, that God [p. 380] is wonderfully gracious to us and if any of us are of any real importance at all in His service, it is particularly so. We can count on God being gracious.
RWS Is he fully restored then?
JT I think so.
AH What is the significance of this man falling down like this in his house?
JT Falling down something like what we see in the book of Revelation where such things happen. This was a man that was officially king of Israel, but he fell down. It is the government of God in relation to persons who are nominally in relation to God’s people and God’s things.
AH Would you in any way link it with Deuteronomy 22: 8? “When thou buildest a new house, thou shalt make a parapet for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thy house, if any one should in any wise fall from it”. I wondered whether this disaster indicated that there was not proper guarding of himself in his own house.
JT It was governmental, I would think. He fell in principle really to his death. His death immediately followed. It was severe governmental action.
VCL Why is Elijah used in the matter of judgment so drastically, judgment on Ahaziah and judgment on these captains and their fifties just before his going up?
JT I think there will be a good deal of that, there is a good deal of that in view today in what is current — so much wickedness abroad. And God is going to dead with it summarily.
VCL So that is going on now in some way.
JT Quite so. The epistle to the Thessalonians deals with this sort of thing. Why should not God have the right to deal with these things that are opposing Him? Why should He not have those rights, and why should anybody question it? God is right and He will do right.
[p. 381] RWS Does not the moral judgment now amongst the saints precede the actual judgment which is imminent?
JT The actual judgment will be what we have in the book of Revelation. In the meantime there are current things, governmental things. So it says He writes to the seven churches which are in Asia. He writes to each one of them beginning with Ephesus. But then immediately following the addresses to the assemblies we have the terrible judgments of the later chapters in the book of Revelation.
Ques According to Thessalonians it says “wrath has come upon them to the uttermost”. That is not future, it has already begun there.
JT Quite so, it has come upon them. Governmental things are happening.
CCT It says in regard to Elijah that the angel said to him, “Arise, go up to meet”. Would that be the thought for us as to our judgment of things in the world? We would arise and meet these matters now and know something about them.
JT Quite so. Elijah is still in function. He is still in employment under God. He is not thrown over at all. Elisha is there too, but Elijah is there also. So we may be reminded that God is gracious and merciful especially to His servants. So that let no one say anything against the servants of God. He will see to that, if there are any who do.
WMcK Would Peter’s word in chapter 4 of his first epistle, “For the time of having the judgment begin from the house of God is come”, apply?
JT That has a direct application to what we are speaking of, “But if first from us, what shall be the end of those who obey not the glad tidings of God? And if the righteous is difficultly saved, where shall the impious and the sinner appear?”. God is gracious to us and His servants as well, but He has also at the same time in hand to use judgment if necessary [p. 382] and where it is necessary. And we know it will be necessary and is necessary. We have to learn from these prophets God’s way of doing things because the prophecy is mitigation. God is mitigating, He is patient, and so at the present time God is not willing that any should perish. He is, not willing, He is patient. So we ought to reckon on the patience of God. He has a right to be patient. We must not question it.
RWS Each of these paragraphs read begins with ‘and’, all the way through and so on through the third, fourth and fifth. Does that mean that things are just proceeding sequentially, going forward?
JT You might begin earlier. The ‘and’ begins earlier, in Genesis, and running right through, showing that God has a great deal to say, and the ‘and’, refers to that. Do you see what I mean? Almost every book has it. God is so gracious and merciful in the extension of His thoughts of grace and consideration of His people and for His servants particularly.
SMcC So that as the chapter proceeds the moral greatness of His servant has to be recognised. The last captain gets on his knees and speaks of himself and those with him as Elijah’s servants. He has to recognise moral greatness.
JT See how God recognises submission in that last captain. Notice how he behaves himself. He does not act like the others. He does not say, ‘Come down’ to the prophet. Perhaps you will touch on that. Mr. McC.
SMcC Verse 13, “And again he sent the captain of a third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up, and came and fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him and said to him, Man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight.
[p. 383] Behold, there came down fire from the heavens, and consumed the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties ...”
JT He takes notice of what happened to the two first ones and he is hoping it will not happen to him, and it does not. Please read further, Mr. McC.
SMcC “... but now, let my life be precious in thy sight. And the angel of Jehovah said to Elijah, Go down with him ...”
JT Now see that. See how grace comes in at once. “Go down with him”. But he had not gone down with the others, the other two captains were destroyed. So God has His own rights, and we must count on them, and act upon them. I think we ought all to remember that we are living in times when it is a time of mercy although it is a time of judgment, but at the same time God is not willing that any should perish — not willing, minded otherwise.
SMcC The last word in the book that relates awful judgments is, “He that will, let him take the water of life freely”.
JT Very good.
JLF So the scripture says, “a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise”. Even if we do not deserve the mercy and goodness of God, if we approach in this way we will be heard.
JT Just so. You can count on that. We can count on this being a time of grace; it still remains. God is still gracious, not willing that any should perish. God is not willing that the worst man on earth should perish, but that all should come to repentance; that gives great encouragement to evangelisation, which we should be always ready to use.
AH Is that enlarged upon in Acts 5 where you have in principle the fire of God coming in on Ananias and Sapphira? But then it says, “And great fear came upon all the assembly, and upon all who [p. 384] heard these things. And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders done among the people”.
JT They began to fear God. God was exercising judgment when it was needed and people began to fear God. Although judgment was meted out to both Ananias and Sapphira I believe that they were christians, believers, I believe they were really believers and God had mercy on them. So that is another thing that we must count on. If a person is really a believer, God makes full allowance for it.
AH It results in great addition to the brethren, “And believers were more than ever added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women”.
JT Even the shadow of Peter was recognised as an element of salvation.
WC How do you mean they were believers, did they not die?
JT Even though they did, that does not mean that believers do not die under the government of God. They may come under the government of God and be dealt with accordingly.
JMcK Would 1 Corinthians 11 support what you are saying, “On this account many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep”?
JT They are really believers.
HB Do you think the disciples in Luke 9 had not got on to the third captain? They were bringing in the thought of Elias bringing down fire from heaven when there were those who would not receive the Lord.
JT Just so. God is ready in His mercy to recognise any overture that anyone makes toward him. It is a time of mercy, and God acts in mercy. We do well to accept that because God loves it. So He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to [p. 385] repentance.
LES The doxology of Romans 11 would come into this, would it not, where we have, “O depth of riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable his judgments, and untraceable his ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counsellor? or who has first given to him, and it shall be rendered to him? For of him, and through him, and for him are all things: to him be glory for ever. Amen”?
JT Just so. So in that epistle, all Israel shall be saved — all Israel. They are under judgment outwardly now, under reproach, but they all come into salvation. That is what those three wonderful chapters in the book of Romans, the chapters including the promises made to the fathers, teach us. God has not forgotten them. He has them all ready to apply the promises in time. So that when the time comes Israel’s time will come in and all Israel shall be saved. That is a wonderful thing; I think for us to have in mind, I am sure you would think so. Mr. S.
LES I do.
JT You have taken it on earlier than the others. You have taken it on already, and that ought to be a testimony to others. We have two dear sisters in New York, who are like yourself, and have come to the truth and are thoroughly converted, and in the assembly, with their brethren.
LES As those born out of due time.
JT Just so. Like Paul himself.
SMcC It is interesting that in verse 15 we get the angel of Jehovah coming into the matter. It says, in relation to the third captain, “The angel of Jehovah said to Elijah, Go down with him”. It reminds you of the angel in Acts, and God helping in matters, does it not?
JT The angel put Elijah into good company. He did not expect it, but the angel put him there, “Go down with him”. Do you go with [p. 386] that?
SMcC Yes, indeed. It reminds you of heaven’s interest wherever there is an attitude like this.
JT Just so. Where there is acceptance of grace, the acceptance of the divine overtures. God is ready to approach and to act in mercy. So that it became a wonderful time. “Go down with him”, says the angel. And of course, he did go down with him, “Be not afraid of him. And he arose, and went down with him to the king”. God has pleasure in all that. Elijah went down with the man to the king. So it is a wonderful testimony there, in the presence of the king, that Elijah went down in conjunction with that act of mercy.
AH I was going to ask you if you would say something as to the place the angel of Jehovah has in this chapter. In verse 3 he comes in. Hitherto we have had “the word of Jehovah came to him”, but now it is “the angel of Jehovah”. Do you think it indicates that heaven now is greatly interested in matters?
JT Quite so. Heaven retains its rights and we can always count on them. We have such things in the government of God as heaven being shut up, but at the same time God reserves His rights and God is in heaven.
PW Do we see something of this spirit in our dispensation with Stephen when he said, “Lay not this sin to their charge”?
JT Just so. Stephen said that. The Lord Jesus in principle had already said it. He said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”. So that Stephen follows the first great Martyr, in that way.
CCT Does God show His love toward Elijah in what was read in verse 15, “Go down with him”, and then “be not afraid of him”? I was thinking that God said to Joshua, “I will not leave thee”. Would [p. 387] this be the same thought here, the Lord standing beside him?
JT Quite so, how many have found that, God standing beside them. Paul said that an angel of God stood beside him that night. That is what happened in the Mediterranean.
EJM In verse 16 Elijah says to the king, “Forasmuch as thou hast sent messengers to inquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron, is it because there is no God in Israel to inquire of his word? therefore thou shalt not come down from the bed on which thou art gone up, but shalt certainly die”. With that kind of opposition to the truth of God, there was no mercy shown there, was there?
JT Quite so, no mercy shown there.
S I was going to inquire whether alongside this matter of governmental judgment on apostasy, God was bringing forward again His pleasure in His servant before the beginning of chapter 2, in which He said He would take up Elijah, bringing him forward to demonstrate His pleasure in him.
JT The time had come and it was already imminent that He was going to take up Elijah. So the word is, “And it came to pass when Jehovah would take up Elijah”. It was a great matter that God had in His mind. He has great pleasure in what He does for His servants. He was going to take him into heaven, one of the very rare persons that is taken into heaven. I think it is well that we have it before us now because of the blasphemous things that are being said in a certain system, that the virgin Mary has been taken up into heaven — a terrible thing. I think we might as well have it before us and see the persistency of this system in error, in wickedness; God is going to deal with that effectually. If we read in the book of Revelation, we shall see how Jezebel is to be [p. 388] dealt with.
EJM Do you understand that Elisha was with Elijah all this time, after he had killed the oxen?
JT I think so. He is on the scene as a man of God’s provision to meet the situation, to fill the gap, because Elijah was to be taken. It was in God’s mind to take him, but He had Elisha to take his place. You may be sure God is never at a loss, He has always got His man to do His work.
EJM I wondered if Elisha was in the school of instruction, in the school of God, to understand that while He might bring in grace, He would not ignore when judgment was necessary.
JT He does bring in grace, it controls Elisha. God is always ready to exercise grace when the opportunity offers itself.
JLF In the meantime would you say Elisha is in the position in verse 11 of chapter 3 of pouring water on the hands of Elijah?
JT Elisha is a simple man ready to do what he can for a superior. He regarded Elijah as superior, which he was. Elijah has a greater place than Elisha. God has His own measures and He is ready to assert them. But God has His eye on Elisha, he is a gracious man, and God uses him. He fitted him for that work.
EJM Is there a similarity in the history of Paul and Timothy? When Paul sends him out he says, “Thou knowest my manner of life and my doctrine”. Timothy then would carry on from there what Paul had already set forth.
JT Quite so. There were Timotheus and faithful men, persons who would be ready to teach the saints, and then it says “others also”.
JK Is the greatness of Elijah set forth in that Elisha desired a double portion of his spirit to be upon him?
JT I would reserve that for the moment. We will come back to it. Elisha wants to be with Elijah,
[p. 389] he never wants to go away from him, and so it is that in due time Elijah says, You will get your request, but you must be sure that you see me when I go up. We will have to come back to that.
CCT So he was able to address Elijah as “My father”, showing that he gave Elijah a greater place than he held himself. Would that also bring out the thought of instruction coming from the father?
JT He functions as a father.
VCL Is that not like the way we have been exhorted the last hundred years to cleave to Paul? Would that be a key word?
JT Do not forget John, though. Mr. Darby said, do not forget John, but cleave to Paul, showing that he is the latter-day man. Paul is a reliable man throughout. The Lord took him up late, but he was a reliable man.
VCL I was just thinking that Elisha apparently was like those who went to the school of Tyrannus, he will not miss a minute, so that he may be prepared for the great things of God.
JT We have Elisha in more modern times. The Spirit of Elisha really is J.N.D.’s line, he is of that character, the spirit of grace. That is characteristic of the later times, the great revival that we are having part in now, and we want to retain it, the spirit of grace.
AH Have you in mind to say anything about this journey that is made, that is Gilgal, Bethel, Jordan and the wilderness.
JT Quite so, we will have to come to that and we must not be too slow about the ascension of Elijah because it is the great point for the moment, the ascension not simply of one saint like Elijah, but the principle of the ascension. So the Lord says to Mary, “I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”. The point in the message was largely the question of the ascension, and it enters into our, own times, these times that we have come into. In the spirit of grace, ascension is the great point. The Lord Jesus is coming, it is a thing to be consciously in our minds, that He is coming for us, and we do not need to die, we do not expect to die. We expect the Lord to come because He has promised to come. “The Lord himself, with an assembling shout, with archangel’s voice and with trump of God, shall descend from heaven; and the dead in Christ shall rise first”. So that is the thing to look for instead of looking for death. The thing is to look for the Lord’s coming and to be ready for it.
JMcK Do you think that the present ministry is helping us in view of the suggestion in the first verse, “And it came to pass when Jehovah would take up Elijah into the heavens”? The present ministry is preparing the saints for this time that will come to pass.
JT It is ‘would’. It is a positive thing, that He would do it. He has it in His mind and what He has in His mind He will do; it is a certainty. At the same time He is not willing that any should perish. And if we are right with God we fully acknowledge that He has those rights. We have to recognise these two things; namely, the coming of the Lord, the certainty of it, and at the same time the divine unwillingness that is manifest in the perishing of any.
AH As to the ascension that you are stressing, does Elisha arrive at it morally in contrast to the sons of the prophets, who seem only to have an objective acquaintance with it?
JT The sons of the prophets do not know much; they are unreliable. We shall see that as we go on to the end. They deceived even Elisha; they would induce him to believe that Elijah had not gone into heaven at all. That is the kind of thing you get with [p. 391] the sons of the prophets. The following generation is not always reliable, we should not make too much of it.
RH Does ascension enter into the service of God spiritually now?
JT I think so, we go up. I always feel that, on the first day of the week, to go up is the idea. After the breaking of bread, to go up is the idea. It is a going up time. The Lord’s service implies going up. And we do not go up by the same door we came in by, either. That is another thing to think of because God may change things at any moment, and going up may happen. We may be transferred at any moment. He is entitled to do that.
CCT A twinkling of an eye.
JT Just so, good.
SMcC Is not the distinction of the saints of the assembly linked with ascension in contrast to the platform of Israel’s blessing in relation to resurrection? And the enemy is attacking that side of the truth. I was thinking that the platform of the blessing of the saints of the assembly is not resurrection: the full thought is ascension. Our place is heavenly, we belong to heaven.
JT Very good. A very great point to make, I am certain.
WC You have said before that we do not go out the same way we come in, referring to Ezekiel 46, I wondered if you would say something more about that, I have often wondered what you had in mind.
JT When we go in to the Lord’s supper on the Lord’s day morning we go in from our houses. We leave our houses and go in to partake of the Lord’s supper and we consider one another and we greet one another. Well, we do not do that when we go out. When we go out we may be transferred; it may be ascension. The spirit of ascension may come into our hearts before we leave the meeting room. We [p. 392] do not go out as we came in. We came in greeting the brethren and counting on them to have part in the Lord’s supper. But now the Lord’s supper has passed, and the ascension comes into view, and it may happen any time, because God has a perfect right to take us to heaven at any time. He has perfect right to do it. Do you follow that?
WC Yes, I do. Thank you, from glory to glory.
JT Just so, very good, from glory to glory. That enters fully into the Lord’s supper and the service of God begins with the Lord’s supper and it develops into the ascension, into the glory scene.
JLF A distinction would be made, would it not, between the saints being taken up and the Lord ascending Himself?
JT I think the idea of ascension attaches to both, the Lord Himself and then to the saints. The assembly will ascend too, the whole assembly will be taken up. We look for that.
JLF I just thought the Lord could Himself ascend or descend, but in order for the saints to go up, they are taken up, as Elijah was.
JT It is in the time of ascension. The descending would, of course, be for the purpose of taking us up. The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and the trump of God. That descending is for the purpose of taking us up. We are going up with Him.
WMcK I was wondering if the anticipative truth of the early part of Ephesians is to help us to take in the thought of ascension. It says, “has quickened us with the Christ, ... and has raised us up together”.
JT Quite so, that is what we have in the Lord’s supper. I mean to say the resurrection applied to the second of Ephesians. That is a matter that enters into the service of God developing out of the Lord’s supper, that we are already ascended. He “has [p. 393] raised us up together, and made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”. Not only to be caught up but to sit down together. That is our present privilege and enters into the service of God.
AP I thought it might be likened to what the Queen of Sheba saw with Solomon, the order of his house and all that, but at last it says she saw the ascent by which he went up.
JT Quite so.
RH Has the Holy Spirit some part in the matter of ascension now spiritually in the service?
JT The Spirit never takes us up. He has never promised to take us up. He has come down to be with us.
RH I was thinking of the hymn,
E’en now we taste the love,
And know the mighty power,
By which we’ll rise to realms above
When waiting time is o’er. (225:4)
JT Quite so. We know the love, and the power too. Of course we do, because the Spirit is the power, and the love is in the Spirit. “The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which has been given to us”. The love and the power are already existent. But then that is not a question of ascension.
RH I was wondering about reaching the thing in power now in the service of God, whether that would require the service of the Spirit, the power working in us.
JT Of course it is there. It is in the Holy Spirit, I would say. But it is not implied that the Spirit takes us up at all or that He has to do with the ascension. The Lord Himself will take us up, the Lord Himself.
JK So that Ephesians 3 speaks of being strengthened with power by His Spirit in the inner man. That is the Father’s Spirit, is it not?
JT The Father’s Spirit is really the Holy Spirit, because the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, and He is the Spirit that acts for the Father too. I would say that He is as much the Spirit of the Father as the Spirit of God.
RWS What was said is not clear to me as to the Holy Spirit. I am a little confused as to what we are speaking of as to ascending in a spiritual way and ascending corporeally. I understand the Spirit has nothing to do with the corporeal ascent, because the Lord does that, but what about the service of God? It says we have access by one Spirit to the Father. Is that the Holy Spirit?
JT Quite so. But I do not see that that interferes with what is being said. The Spirit has been sent down from heaven, and He is here now with us; even this very minute He is here with us as sent down. He has not come down to go up; He was sent down to be with us while we are here, not to take us up anywhere, but just while we are here. He is here for that purpose.
JK Have you not said elsewhere, in this connection, that the Spirit quickens?
JT So He does. But that is not taking us up.
JK No, that is what I was wondering.
JT That is Romans 8: 11. It says that the Spirit quickens. That is another thing that many do not notice, that it is not Christ that quickens or the Father that quickens at the present time, because the word there is quickening our mortal bodies, not our dead bodies, but our mortal bodies; that is what is said of the Spirit. I think it is important for us to have that in mind, the function of the Holy Spirit here on earth. He is down here in relation to the saints to look after them, but He is not going to take us to heaven. The Lord is going to do that. We have to learn what divine Persons are doing, what They do characteristically. The Spirit of God has [p. 395] been sent by the Lord Jesus Himself, and He is sent here to look after the assembly, and He is with us and in us too.
JK I think now we see a little of what in these meetings you have been stressing as to the Spirit sent down.
JT Quite so. That has been very much before the brethren for a good while, both here and in Europe.
EJM The thought of the Spirit quickening our mortal bodies does not interfere with the Lord taking us to heaven, does it?
JT The Lord does not quicken us, as far as I see.
EJM Does that fit in with “we which are alive and remain”?
JT Just so. Those who are alive and remain are mortal, they are not dead bodies. And the Spirit of God acts on the mortal bodies; that is as we are here today. The Spirit of God has power to act upon us.
JMcK So that as you have been speaking of the Holy Spirit sent down, according to Ephesians 4, it says in speaking of Christ, “He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens, that he might fill all things”. That is what He does Himself.
JT That is the Lord Jesus, Himself.
JMcK Yes, that is what I had in mind in contrast to the Spirit being sent down.
JT Just so.
SMcC As to Romans 8: 11, that you helped us on so much of late, there are many that have a difficulty about that, thinking that it is mediatorial, but you regard it as the Spirit’s action entering into the matter of the quickening.
JT Surely, it is the actual action of the Spirit.
SMcC I have had those who have challenged me as to it, saying it is the Spirit of Him who has raised [p. 396] up Jesus from the dead, that it is a mediatorial thought more.
JT The ‘Him’ there is God. How does that particular passage read?
SMcC It reads, “But if the Spirit of him that has raised up Jesus from among the dead dwell in you, he that has raised up Christ from among the dead shall quicken your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you”.
JT That is God Himself. That is what I see there. The Spirit of Him that raised up Christ. It is God Himself.
SMcC And the Spirit is God.
JT Quite so.
S Does Ephesians 1: 14 bear on the thought of the Spirit bringing us now into our inheritance spiritually? He “is the earnest of our inheritance to the redemption of the acquired possession to the praise of his glory”.
JT The Spirit is, quite so. Have you a different thought?
S I was just thinking of Dr. S.’s question earlier, as to our entering into our heavenly portion now in contrast to actual ascension. I wondered if this reference to the Spirit being the earnest of our inheritance bore on the matter.
JT We have to go by steps, you know. I believe we ought to get the truth of all these things this very day before we leave.
S I would like some help too, as to our present entering into our heavenly portion on the line of ascension. You spoke of ascension in relation to the morning meeting, as flowing out of the Supper, and then the question of actual ascension in which you were saying the Holy Spirit does not have part, but the Lord Himself comes for us. I thought this passage, Ephesians 1: 14, would have a bearing on [p. 397] our entering now into our heavenly portion in the latter part of the morning meeting.
JT There is just this to be said at once, that God has a right to speak of things anticipatively. They will happen, but it is not said that they are now happening. For instance, as in Ephesians 2, “and has raised us up together, and made us sit down together”. That is what will happen literally, and God is entitled to the liberty of speaking of things anticipatively, things that be not as if they were.
S Does the Holy Spirit bring us into things anticipatively?
JT I do not think so, that is not His function. He is sent down here, and He is here today. It is no question of ascension, it is a question of what He is for us here on earth. When I say earth, as we have often said, I mean He is here in the assembly to help us, not to take us up, but to help us, to carry us on and support us, so He adds His help to our weaknesses.
AH I think the brethren would now be very glad if you would come to verse 9, and say a word for us on verse 9 to the end of verse 14.
JT I suppose you are right in saying we have got as far as verse 9, but we want to get it clearly in our minds, especially recent things that have been said as to the Spirit; that He is here in the assembly, and in relation to the assembly and in relation to us as of the assembly, and in relation to the service of God here on earth, not to go up, but as here on earth. He will go up presently, but He never takes us up. He is never said to take us up. The Lord Himself takes us up.
SMcC On Lord’s day morning in the service of God, is it that we are under the hand of Christ as Head, and we go up in ascension while the Spirit’s power enters into the matter? The Lord as Head is taking us into things [p. 398] spiritually.
JT If He does do it, but it may be anticipatively. What we deal with is anticipative, take Ephesians 1: 23.
SMcC “According to the working of the might of his strength, in which he wrought in the Christ in raising him from among the dead, and he set him down at his right hand in the heavenlies, above every principality, and authority, and power, and dominion, and every name named, not only in this age, but also in that to come; and has put all things under his feet, and gave him to be head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all”.
JT That is the passage that I wanted to get clearly before us — what the assembly is to Christ. The assembly has part in the headship, which perhaps brethren do not see much. God has made the assembly part of the headship. Perhaps you would say what you think yourself.
SMcC I think what you are saying is important, and we want to get more as to this matter. How do you view the last verse of 74:5, J.N.D.’s hymn,
And see! the Spirit’s power
Has ope’d the heavenly door,
Has brought us to that favoured hour
When toil shall all be o’er?
JT ‘Brought us to the favoured hour’, that is all. He has brought us to it, but it does not assert that the Spirit takes us up at all; that would not be in keeping with the truth. We have to go by the truth of Scripture. And the truth of Scripture is that the Spirit of God has been sent down from heaven, and He is here still and looking after the assembly and the things of God until the Lord comes.
EJM Is it important to see in Ephesians 1: 14 that the Holy Spirit of promise is the earnest of our [p. 399] inheritance to the redemption, not to take up to heaven, but to that point?
JT Very good. Not to take it up to heaven, but just to the redemption of the acquired possession. He is here for us in that sense.
JLF You said earlier, I think in London, that the Spirit was here in view of augmenting what the Lord was doing. Is that the thought?
JT I think that is true. He augments what the Lord is doing, but there are things the Lord does that He does not do. So in the book of Revelation the Lord does certain things. He writes to the assemblies, “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”. That is to say the Spirit augments what the Lord is doing, as our brother says.
RWS You said earlier, after the breaking of bread, it is a going up time. Now I am not just clear as to who is the Person that takes us up if it is a going up time.
JT Well, it is a question of the purpose of God, what we can reckon on according to Ephesians 2, “He has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies”. That is anticipative, the time has not come for that. The actual transfer into heaven is by the Lord’s own power, the power of God taking us up. It has not happened yet; we have to wait for it. What is going on now is the operations of God in the assembly on earth. That is where the service of God is carried on too, here on earth.
JLF God is bringing many sons to glory, is that in your mind?
JT That is what God is doing; that is God’s own province. Many sons are being brought to glory, and that includes the sisters as well as the brothers, because sonship takes in all the sisters as well as [p. 400] the brothers.
ADS I was thinking I might refer to that hymn,
‘God and the Lamb shall there
The light and temple be,
And radiant hosts for ever share
The unveiled mystery!’ (74:7)
Does not the Spirit bring us into the light and joy of that now?
JT Quite so, but that is not literality, that is purpose. Of course, remember, in spite of our perfect confidence in Mr. Darby, he is yet Mr. Darby. These hymns are Mr. Darby’s hymns, they are not exactly God’s hymns. We have to go by facts and make much of them, and not be carried away by anything else, but facts.
ADS I was only thinking that we are impressed that the power of the blessed Holy Spirit is needed to bring us into the light and joy of what we actually will be in.
JT Just so, ‘And see! the Spirit’s power has ope’d the heavenly door, has brought us to that favoured hour ...’. He has brought us there, but He has not taken us into heaven. We will go up together, the Lord will take us up. The translation will be by the Lord Himself, when the literality of it comes.
SMcC I think what you are saying is very important and helps in the service of God. You have in mind that as long as we are in flesh and blood, we never really leave the scene here, the sanctuary.
JT Never; Paul said he was caught up into the third heaven, but he did not know whether he was in the body or out of it. We cannot make literality out of it.
SMcC So Colossians stresses faith, risen by faith of the operation of God.
JT That is a faith state, which is not literality at [p. 401] all.
SMcC I think what you have said is most helpful as to Lord’s day morning, showing how the Spirit is linked with the position down here and how we enter in His power into the good and gain anticipatively of all that the Lord will bring us into literally in ascension.
JT Just so, the assembly is never other than down here, until she is translated.
AB Ephesians 3, already referred to, says, “to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man; that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love”.
JT Very good, I hope all will take that in, what faith is. It is the faith dispensation we are in, and the assembly is in that dispensation.
AB We are never really outside the scope of faith while we are here but are just privileged to touch the eternal conditions.
JLF We are sons of God by faith.
JT We are all sons of God by faith. That is the point the apostle makes. We are all the sons of God, and every sister can take account of that as a believer. She is a son. We are all sons of God by faith and because of that He “has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father”.
WC What does John mean when he says, “I became in the Spirit on the Lord’s day”?
JT Just what he says, literal fact, I would say. We constantly refer to that state of things existing in the book of Revelation, a change comes about in John’s own actual state, and the Lord Himself is changed on that same principle.
Rem So we are valuing the Spirit more than ever, because we are finding everything in Him.
JT Quite so, that is right, finding everything in Him. It greatly strengthens your heart that you find the Lord is with us. He is here with us today in this [p. 402] hall.
SMcC I think what has been drawn attention to and what you have been saying is very good. I can say for myself that I have had a touch as to the Spirit this afternoon that I have never quite got before, as to the greatness of His presence in the assembly.
JT Quite so, because God is insisting on that. That is where things lie. The reality of the assembly lies in the presence of the Holy Spirit down here, not in heaven, but in the assembly. I think we should call attention to verse 9. Please read that. It is the firstborn’s portion, and we have the word in Hebrews, “the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven”. That implies the gift of the Spirit, the double portion of Elijah’s spirit.
SMcC It brings out the fulness of what we are linked with, does it not?
JT The Old Testament Scriptures furnish typical teaching for us. They anticipate certain things in christianity. This particular thing refers to the Holy Spirit, “How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him?”. And that giving implies the double portion.
SMcC I think we have been getting a touch of the double portion in a very distinctive way this afternoon. I thought we might get that point and then read on a little more.
WC “And it came to pass when they had gone over, that Elijah said to Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I am taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so to thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass as they went on, and talked, that behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire; and they parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the heavens. And Elisha saw it,
[p. 403] and he cried, My father, my father! the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof! And he saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own garments and rent them in two pieces. And he took up the mantle of Elijah which fell from him, and went back and stood by the bank of the Jordan; and he took the mantle of Elijah which had fallen from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is Jehovah, the God of Elijah? He also smote the waters, and they parted hither and thither, and Elisha went over”.
JT It was by the power of God that Elijah was taken up into heaven, and the power of God was with Elisha too. We have to understand how the Spirit of God is operating. He remains here in the assembly.
AH So that the next verse emphasises what you are saying, “The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha”. You quoted from Luke 11, the Lord saying, “How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”. Elisha really encounters the opposition of Satan.
JT Quite so.
AH And this that you are bringing before us is to preserve us from all that, is it?
JT All this Romish teaching that has been brought forward, which is so dreadful, that the brethren ought to be steeled against it to resist it, not openly, of course. We do not want to go to war with Rome, but be right in our own minds as to all this blasphemy that is circulated. They say the Pope is going to promulgate it formally on the first of November.
RWS The final testimony in verse 15 is to the Spirit’s power down here, “The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha”.
JT Very good.
AB J.B.S. makes a remark in regard to this section, the acquiring of power. He remarks in [p. 404] relation to the end of verse 12, “Then he took hold of his own garments and rent them in two pieces”, that is the beginning of power, in dealing with it in relation to ourselves.
JB I wanted to ask a question in regard to the matter of ascension, whether it was necessary for us to undertake the three stages to understand the great matter of the Jordan, the third stage of Elijah’s journey, if we are to enter upon the great thought of ascension.
JT It is the power that worketh in us according to Colossians, we are risen “through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead”. It is a question of faith, the faith of the operation of God. I think Jordan represents that, and we have power to go through it. The power of Elijah is here in Elisha. The continuation of the power that was in Elijah is in Elisha. The service of God therefore is fully equipped. It can go on in the person of Elisha. I think that is the thing that we can see in this whole passage, that Jordan is the figure of death, but the figure of death as realised in the Spirit now by the believer, something that we have enabling us to go through it in the power of God. So it says we are raised by faith of the working of God who raised Christ from the dead. It is a question of faith. But then we must also remember that the Spirit of God is here and is operating in us to that end.
JLF Besides Elisha having the Spirit of Elijah, he also had the power of Elijah, and so had John the baptist. He came in the spirit and power of Elias.
JT The word is, “if ye will receive it, this is Elias”. That is to say, Elijah represents the mystical state of things represented in other persons, not only in himself. That is another thing to keep in mind as to Elijah.