THE PRESENCE AND OPERATIONS OF THE SPIRIT
[p. 126] THE PRESENCE AND OPERATIONS OF THE SPIRIT
EC I should like to know a little more about what you said regarding the Spirit as truth, and His operation in the christian — such as we get in John 14 in connection with His presence.
WW What was that? will you repeat the suggestion?
EC Some further light as to the presence of the Spirit and the manner of His operation in the christian and in the church starting from that expression, “The Spirit is the truth”. Some further development as to the way it is to be understood.
DLH Did I understand correctly this morning that the thought of the Spirit of truth is the revelation of God manward, and the word of God the other way — man to God?
FER Nothing short of the revelation of God comes up to the idea of the truth. There is “the truth” and “truth,” but nothing short of the revelation of God could be designated as the truth. When Christ is spoken of as the truth and the Spirit as the truth, both are connected with the revelation of God. I think you get light on it in 1 John 2: 20, 21: “But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth”. The truth seems bound up with the revelation of God.
FHB Would it not embrace the idea of our relationship with the Father and the Son?
FER I doubt it. It says, the Spirit is the truth.
FHB But I thought that Christ in glory is the expression of the mind of God as to man?
FER Yes; but He is also the truth.
Ques Where is it said, “The Spirit is the truth”?
FER In 1 John 5. It is a proposition which is reciprocal. The Spirit is the truth, and the truth is the Spirit. Christ has come as the revelation of God, and the Spirit bears witness. He bears witness to the truth, but He is Himself the truth.
FHB The Spirit is to witness of Christ in glory.
FER Yes; He bears witness, but He is also the truth.
PC Is that because He expresses what is revealed of God?
FER Yes.
EC Is that in Himself or in the christian?
FER He dwells in the christian to affect him by all that has come to light in Christ. No one can enter into the knowledge of God save by the Spirit. Christ is “the truth” objectively. The Spirit is “the truth” subjectively, that is, in the believer. The first work of the Spirit in the believer is to establish the revelation of God in him. He brings home to us the way in which that revelation has come out.
Ques Is it done by ministry?
FER No; by divine power. No ministry can effectually lead you into the knowledge of God. You can only know God by the Spirit. The Spirit establishes the revelation of God in our hearts, so that they may be governed by what God is. I could not tell you how, but divine love is made effectual in us by divine power.
Ques Then what is the good of ministry?
FER It brings the mind of God under the attention of saints, but it does not by itself effect any result in us. It is a mistake to suppose that it effects anything in itself.
Ques. What does?
FER Ministry tends to bring about exercise, and it is by the exercise the Spirit works to bring something about in us.
GG Is the exercise produced by the Spirit?
FER Yes; there is no result wrought in anybody until there is exercise; ministry may occasion exercise,
[p. 128] but the Spirit must make it effective.
ASL You say the Spirit is the truth in the believer?
FER Yes. Every believer in having the Spirit has the truth in himself, only he may not be prepared for it.
The babe has the truth in its entirety in having the Spirit, but it may be that he has but little of it wrought in him. There growth comes in.
AH You have said somewhere that it took God to reveal God, and it takes God to make God known in us.
FER It takes God to make us know God, but the truth in its entirety is in the christian because the Spirit is there, all else is growth in it. Most people are content to have the truth in the Spirit, and are not anxious about its being wrought in themselves. It is the difference in a sense between Romans and Ephesians and Colossians. In Romans 5 and 8 we have everything in the Spirit. In Ephesians and Colossians the language is changed. It is “you hath he quickened”. In Romans there is nothing about quickening as in the present or putting on the new man, but there is in Ephesians and Colossians.
DLH Ministry is for the perfecting of the saints?
FER Yes; but as a question of intelligence. Gift keeps God’s mind under the attention of the saints; but having the Spirit you are independent of man. You have everything in the Spirit. “Ye need not that any man teach you”. The Spirit is the truth in the saints.
Ques “Thy word is truth?”
FER That is characteristic. There is a shade of difference between truth and the truth.
Ques “He that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest”. What is that? Is it confined to the beginning?
FER No; any one practising truth cometh to the light that his deeds might be made manifest. Christ was in that way the test. The truth came as light, and brought out where every one was, and the one who did truth came to the light. When a man is acting with regard to God [p. 129] he is doing truth. Old Testament saints who acted in reference to God as far as He was known, were doing truth.
Ques “The same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him”. Was not this always true?
FER You could not say that the truth was here until Christ came. Truth came by Christ. He is the truth. But the truth having come, it has to be maintained, and the maintenance of the truth now is by the Spirit. The revelation has come, and the power that maintains the revelation is the Spirit of God. The maintenance of the revelation is entirely dependent on the Spirit, and nothing can sweep it away. Christianity is maintained by divine power; there is no cause for any fear as to it. No power could get rid of the Spirit, even if the Scriptures could be got rid of.
FHB The Spirit is here, and maintains the truth in spite of all opposition.
WB How is the church the pillar and ground of the truth?
FER The Spirit maintains the truth in the church in a public way. What was revealed in Christ is maintained by the Spirit. Everything in the way of public expression or witness depends on the church.
HH You said we had the truth objectively in Christ and subjectively in the Spirit. How?
FER It is in this that the difference between the gospels and the epistles consists. What was presented in Christ is realised by the Spirit in the saints.
H.D’A.C. Spirit of truth?
FER It is the spirit of truth in contrast to the letter.
Ques What is “as the truth is in Jesus”?
FER That is what is characteristic in Jesus. The truth is the revelation of the Father and the Son. In John 14 the Spirit is looked at as the Comforter, the [p. 130] Paraclete. Further on the Lord says of the Spirit, “he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you”.
THR All this is to enable the saints to take the place of Christ down here morally, when He is absent. Christ was the truth here, and now the Spirit is the truth.
FER The revelation of God is what is to characterise christians morally. Christians are the fruit of the light, and are to display God. “That ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God”.
Ques Would it be right to say that the Old Testament saints had truth, but when Christ came there was the truth?
FER There were true things, but that does not rise to the idea of the truth. You must, I think, distinguish between truth and the truth; the latter is the revelation of the Father and the Son.
FHB Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ?
FER That is more characteristic, it is in contrast to law. That would mean christianity. Verse 17 says, “For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ”. You get two nouns, but the verb is in the singular.
HH How does the Spirit effectuate the truth in us?
FER I think the work of the Spirit is to quicken the saints in spiritual affections, to bring them into the full light of Christ, which is God revealed, but I could not tell you the mode of His working. We have all to come under divine teaching, and we are brought into the house of God to that end.
WW What does “Comforter” mean in John 14? Is it the same as in the epistle — the advocate who undertakes the cause of another?
FER Mr. Darby used the word solicitor or patron.
FHB John speaks of the truth abiding in us. I suppose that is by the Spirit abiding in us?
FER Yes. It is not enough to take account of [p. 131] the fact that the Spirit is in you, but what does He abide in you for? The first object is that the revelation of God may become effectual in us, so that we may come under the influence of the light that has been brought to us in Christ.
Ques Is it to form us by it?
FER Yes; the only formative principle is the knowledge of God. We are defective because we have come so little under the practical effect of the knowledge of God. Nothing else is effective.
THR Nothing else would be real in us apart from the Spirit.
FER Nothing affects a man really save the light of God.
Ques You spoke of quickening in Ephesians and Colossians in contrast to Romans?
FER We do not get quickening in a present sense in Romans. It is true you have everything in having the Spirit, but then you have to be formed in all. There is the difference between having the things and being formed in them. Take a newly born babe, what has it got?
G.G. Life?
FER I should say not in an intelligent moral sense.
Ques. What then?
FER The thing it has is sensibilities.
W.H. Then it has life?
FER If you speak of life merely physically, so has an animal, but I am speaking morally; what comes to pass with a babe is, that it finds itself in connection with relationships and affections, and by these its moral sense is formed. It finds itself the object of care and affection, and these produce affections in it; that is, life comes in in a moral sense through its surroundings. So, by the knowledge of God we are formed spiritually, and in Ephesians and Colossians the apostle can say “hath quickened us together with Christ”.
THR That brings us to the assembly. Where [p. 132] quickening and affections are brought in, they are assembly epistles.
Ques. Why?
THR Because that is where divine affections flow.
Ques Is that why you say we are brought into the house of God to be under divine teaching?
FER Yes, and that is effected by making us acquainted with divine affections and care.
WAW Being “born of God” is — I have been affected by the revelation of God.
FER Yes; you have been morally affected by it. You know God and love God.
Ques In what way would you say that a babe has sensibilities?
FER A cry is an expression of sensibility. What I meant was in connection with new birth. But the “babe” in christianity has more than sensibilities. It has been affected by the revelation of God, and can thus be said to be “born of God”. That corresponds to 1 Peter 1: 23.
GG Are the sensibilities produced by the Spirit?
FER Yes. “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit”, thus the sensibilities are spiritual sensibilities. Life in a moral sense results from being brought into circumstances which act upon one. J.N.D. defined life as ‘The ability to enjoy the position in which God has set you’. That is life in a moral sense. How is one to enjoy the position in which we are set as sons? It can only be as having been divinely taught — instructed in divine love. You may tell a person he is a son, but you cannot make him enjoy it. It is impossible for him to enjoy it unless he is acquainted with the disposition of God towards him, and nothing but the Spirit of God can teach you God’s disposition towards you. No amount of ministry can do so. The new covenant is really divine teaching.
WH “The Lord give thee understanding in all things”. Is that [p. 133] by the Spirit?
FER Yes.
ASL What is the operation of the Spirit in connection with John 7? Is chapter 4 the fountain, and chapter 7 the flowing out of the living water? Is it the activities of the Spirit?
FER In John 4 the gift is connected with the Son of God. “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water”. In John 7 the Spirit is given in connection with Jesus glorified. In the former the Son of God had come down to make known divine love, and the Spirit was to be given to make it effective. He takes possession of the affections of the christian so that they spring up to eternal life.
Ques Do you connect that with worship? would the effect of the springing up to eternal life be worship? Is it realised in worship when in assembly?
FER I think so. You do not really get worship till you reach eternal life.
Ques What is the difference between eternal life here and in John 6?
FER In John 6 all is seen on the experimental side. In John 4 it is on the other side-the giving of God and its character. Romans 5 is the Spirit’s work on the divine side, He makes God’s love effectually known to us. In chapter 8 He acts on our side. One is going up, and the other coming down.
Ques And in John 7 what is it there?
FER The Spirit is connected with Jesus glorified and He brings in the new Head. It is the sense of Jesus the glorified Man there as Head.
THR It is what characterises the new Jerusalem there. You get rivers flowing out. The river flows from the new Jerusalem. In John 7 it is blessing coming from heaven, in contrast to the Jew’s feast of tabernacles, which was blessing on earth. We know Christ in heaven, and as having the Spirit we are to be contributors to this [p. 134] scene, we do not want anything from it. The new Jerusalem does not receive anything from the earth but contributes to it. That is the idea of it. So we anticipate the heavenly city. Living waters flow through the belly. It is all real — they come out through the affections. You are so in the sense of Jesus glorified that you are a source of healthful life — inspiring influence to all around. You get the idea of a river all through Scripture. Rivers flowed out of the garden of Eden. Here it is flowing out from the affections of the believer. Mr. Stoney used to say that we are contributors to this scene.
Ques To whom do they flow in John 7?
THR It is the love of God flowing out to this scene.
Ques What would be the difference between the springing up of the water, and the flowing out? Would the latter be ministry?
FER No. I do not think so. It is what was to characterise every saint, the soul being in such a sense of what has come out in the love of God that all that comes from a man is characterised by it, and has a healthful influence on others. Out of his belly flows rivers of living water. You cannot give out the good if you are not in the sense of it yourself. Everything about Christ and all that came from Him had a holy life-giving influence, all came from another world, not one bit from this world.
Ques Should it be confined to the christian circle or everywhere?
THR Everywhere, as it will be in the heavenly Jerusalem.
WB That makes one ashamed of oneself.
FER Yes; but what would the world be without christians? If christian influence were taken away what kind of a place would the world be, and what will it be? All that is true in the believer indicates what Christ will be by and by with regard to all on earth. One great thing is, that as Christ is the Head of every man all then will [p. 135] come under His healthful influence as Head. He is the source of every health-giving influence that every one might come under it. Christ is the Head of every man, and all distinctions of men are lost sight of in view of that.
Ques Would you say that Romans 8 is individual?
FER Romans is taken up with the individual path of the christian down here, it leads him in the path of righteousness. If I want to understand my individual path for the will of God I go to Romans. We never get to a moment where we can do without the truth in Romans. It is of the last importance to us. The truth in it does not go on to the assembly, though it may be preparatory for it. If you are in the truth of the assembly, you will carry out the instructions of Romans in your own path.
Ques Would you say the commandments of the Lord in John 14 go beyond Romans?
FER I do not know. I think in John 14 the Lord is speaking more to His disciples collectively. Verse 23 is individual.
Ques Why does it pass from the collective to the individual in this verse 21: “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him”.
FER Verse 21 is a test. All tests are presented individually. If you want to know whether you love Christ, the question is, Have you His commandments and do you keep them? John’s epistle abounds in tests of that kind.
Ques There is individual communion there. “We will make our abode”?
FER Yes, evidently so. So in the promise to the individual in Laodicea: “I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me”; but what is true to the individual can hardly come up to what you have in the assembly.
WAW I suppose we are shut up to the [p. 136] Spirit in these three chapters — 14, 15, 16?
FER Yes. What can there be in this world where Christ is rejected save what is of the Spirit of God? How could anything be maintained here for God except in the Spirit of God? The chapters are in connection with the witnessing for Christ. Chapter 14 is preparatory; chapter 15, fruit-bearing; and in chapter 16 we have the witness, and then the position of the disciples is more definitely brought out in regard to things. “He shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you”.
WGB Do you distinguish between the Spirit dwelling in the believer and in the assembly?
FER He dwells in the assembly as being in believers. The Spirit never came upon one single individual. The Spirit came on the hundred and twenty on the day of Pentecost. The body was the vessel of the Spirit. Christ prepared the vessel, the Spirit came and takes possession of it, and by the fact of the baptism of the Holy Spirit believers were all formed into one body. We are builded together for an habitation of God by the Spirit. New birth does not in itself demand the presence of the Spirit. New birth was there before the Spirit came and will be after the church is gone, when the Spirit will consequently be no longer here. Now every one who partakes of the Spirit is brought into the dwelling-place of God by the Spirit. Christ prepared the material for God’s house, and on the day of Pentecost the Spirit came to take up His abode, and He has been here from that day to this. By the fact of having part in the Spirit individually we are brought into the place where the Spirit is. The Spirit is in each individual, but He is not in you independently of the rest.
THR In speaking of the indwelling Spirit you have to take care that you do not separate yourself from the company upon whom the baptism of the Spirit came.
FER That is very important.
THR Each believer has the Spirit, but do not put it apart from that which is collective. It is an immense truth that Christ’s presence here on earth was succeeded by a company which Christ formed, and the Spirit came to it, and we partake in that Spirit, and we have to take care that we do not sever ourselves from that which the baptism of the Spirit formed — the house of God.
Ques “Filled all the house ... sat upon each”. What do you make of that?
FER The sound filled the house, and each one partook of the Spirit. That is, the influence went further than the persons. ‘Dwelling’ is in contrast with Christ, who was departing. In John 14 the Spirit was to abide — which Christ did not. Every one of God’s household partakes of the Spirit, and the Spirit undertakes to support and conduct you in your individual path here. The Spirit is connected with the individual in Romans 8; so in 1 Corinthians 6 — I must take care what I do with my body, because my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Ques Partakers of the Holy Spirit — what is that?
FER That means ‘companions’. People may come into the sphere of the Holy Spirit’s presence and operations who have not received the Spirit.
Ques Is it the sphere of which Peter speaks when he says, “If ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious”?
FER That raises the question whether you are really a christian or not. If you are, you taste the Lord is gracious, and then you go further. Everything for God here must be in the Spirit, and if we realise that we shall refuse everything of ourselves and of the mind of the flesh and all fleshly interests. If not we are content with the mustard-tree or the great house and the three measures of meal, but in the eye of God that is confusion.
Ques “Drink into one Spirit”, what is that?
FER “One Spirit” there it is not exactly the Holy Spirit. It indicates the end of Jew and gentile in unity.
Rem There was nothing here for God when Christ was here save Christ.
FER We want certain sentiments that are in [p. 138] the Spirit, such as patriotism and loyalty.
Ques What sort of patriotism?
FER The love of your country. I do not mean of England; and we want loyalty, but in the right quarter — loyalty to Christ. Loyalty is a great thing, but we first want the idea of God’s King, and you cannot get that down here. I want to love my country, but I should not like to be a patriot in regard of so small a country as England; and I should be loyal, but with the right idea of a king, and for that I must have the Lamb and the Lion. In Revelation 5 there are the two, and until I see the two in the King, no king will exercise much influence over me. In the Lamb you get the meekest Man upon earth, and in the Lion one strong against all evil.
Ques But if you saw a king with fine moral qualities you would think more of him than of one who had not?
FER It is all of that man who is gone for God. Now that I have the true idea of the King. I am not going to be carried away by what man admires.
EC Psalm 45 is what should characterise the true King, “And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness”.
FER Yes. There you get the Lion and the Lamb. Meekness now in connection with a king would not be admired. I do not think God’s King will be condescending.