SALVATION AND RECONCILIATION
SALVATION AND RECONCILIATION
FER I suppose the thought of salvation would precede that of reconciliation.
Ques Do we not get that in verse 13?
FER Yes. Strictly speaking, salvation is connected with the coming of the Lord. Christ will “appear the second time without sin unto salvation”. We await salvation in that sense.
Ques Is salvation connected with the kingdom?
FER Yes, I think so. What brings salvation into this world is the establishment of the kingdom.
Ques Do you distinguish between present salvation and future?
FER I was only speaking strictly — it must be connected with the coming of the Lord.
Rem “Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls”.
FER Yes. We get that in the present time.
Rem “To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins”. “God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”.
FER Exactly. “To obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him”. We look for the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour from the coming wrath — not exactly salvation, but more Christ as Saviour. So in Philippians 3 it is not exactly salvation; it is the Saviour, we wait for Him as Saviour.
Rem “Now is our salvation nearer than when we believed”.
FER It looks on to ultimate deliverance.
Ques Does not the deliverance of Israel from Egypt present the good of salvation?
FER I think so. Salvation hangs on righteousness.
You cannot get salvation without that. It is “by the remission of their sins” we get salvation.
Rem The gospel is “the power of God unto salvation” because righteousness is there.
FER Yes. You are superior to the power of evil in the grace and strength of the Lord. That is where salvation comes in as a present reality, instead of being swallowed up by evil.
Ques What is the force of “saved in hope” in Romans 8?
FER No one could say he had salvation absolutely at the present time, so we are saved “in hope”. As a matter of fact, we are here in responsibility, so we cannot talk about having salvation absolutely. You could not talk about salvation absolutely as long as the element of responsibility exists.
Ques Can you say absolutely you are justified?
FER Yes, I think so.
Ques Then why not the other, as far as you are concerned?
FER Scripture does not seem to attach it to us in that way.
Ques How about 2 Timothy 1: 9 — “Who hath saved us”?
FER Well, God has done that. You can accept that, you can stand in the truth of that. It is a very great thing to understand salvation, because then you really have a sense in yourself of the grace and strength of the Lord. You have acquaintance with the Lord.
Rem It is realised now in appropriating Christ as Lord.
FER Yes, I think so. “With the mouth confession is made unto salvation”. Confession is habitual. The practical result of the confession of Christ as Lord is that you stand in the grace and strength of the Lord.
Rem “The name of the Lord is a strong tower”.
Ques “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”. Is that characteristic?
FER Yes, I think so.
Ques What is “the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ”?
FER The apostle was very conscious of the support of the Spirit of Christ that he would not fail. He would be kept in faithfulness to the end, in spite of every effort to turn him aside. You prove the delivering power of God, and stand in the grace and strength of the Lord, because He is greater than all that can be against you.
Rem Peter walking on the water was held up by the hand of the Lord.
FER Exactly. The water is that on which the power of evil acts, but you walk on the water as supported by the hand of grace and strength. All depends on the grace and strength of the Saviour. “My grace is sufficient for thee; for my strength is made perfect in weakness”. A man ought to be able to give an answer to every one that asketh a reason of the hope that is in him.
Rem If a man makes a confession, he ought to know what it is about.
FER I think so. Salvation is not growth, but a man grows up to it.
Ques What is the force of soul-salvation?
FER It is in contrast to the temporal deliverance to which Israel had been accustomed. In the meanwhile, while we wait for full deliverance, we have soul-salvation.
Ques What is the “gospel of your salvation” with regard to which the Holy Spirit was received?
FER It all refers to the salvation God had prepared for the gentiles. Salvation was there for the gentiles.
Ques Of what does it consist?
FER Of man’s liberation from the power of evil. Christ “gave himself for our sins that he might deliver us from this present evil world”. The provision of salvation in Christ is not only righteousness, but liberation from all the power of evil.
Ques Is that salvation in Romans [p. 337] 5: 10?
FER Yes, I think so. We are saved by the energy of His life. We are reconciled by His death, when He was in weakness. Now we are saved in the mighty energy of His life.
Ques Is that Titus 3: 5?
FER Yes. It is outward and inward, When the Lord comes again, He appears the second time unto salvation. All salvation in the present time, as to its effectuality, is through the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ our Saviour.
Ques What was the salvation of Luke 7?
FER Liberation from the power of evil. The woman was manifestly a sinner, but really her faith saved her, and her faith brought her from under the power of evil, close to Jesus.
Ques What is imminent for the sinner?
FER Judgment and the wrath of God. We have to do with men living in this world, and we are justified in pressing upon people that wrath is coming. We cannot tell when it will come, but it is coming. People ought to be warned of what is imminent. Wrath is declared, and that is what is imminent. I should have no hesitation in warning men that they are amenable to the judgment of God. “God shall judge the secrets of men”. God will be the Judge of the conduct of every man, and every man will have to stand at the tribunal of God. We warn men of what is moral — that man is amenable to the judgment of God. God is the Judge of men — it is not a question of what is coming, God will be the Judge of man’s conduct.
Rem If ye “die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come”.
FER Exactly.
Ques You would not object to the preaching of the eternity of judgment?
FER It is often only trying to act on people’s imagination. What acts on man’s moral being is that God will be his Judge. It is not that the judgment of eternal punishment is not eternal, but it is often carried too far. Every man will have to stand before the judgment-seat [p. 338] of Christ, that he may receive the things done in the body.
Ques Would you not warn people of the great white throne?
FER God has revealed to christians the great end of things, that they may see the ultimate issues, and the working out of good and evil, but they are not to take advantage of that to work on men’s imagination. It is quite enough to tell them that man is amenable to the judgment of God.
Ques Is not eternal judgment mentioned in Hebrews 6 as one of the first principles, as a foundation truth?
FER It comes in in contrast to the governmental dealings of God, to which Israel had been accustomed. What I mean is that you are not to expatiate on the effects of judgment. If you do, you only seek to affect the sensibilities of a man. What you want to do is to act on the conscience.
Rem A preacher ought to enlighten a man, to enlighten his conscience, to tell him about God.
FER Exactly.
Ques What about the end of Mark 9?
FER It is a warning, in regard to the disciples, to walk in self-judgment.
Rem But “knowing ... the terror of the Lord, we persuade men”.
FER Very well, you persuade men, not terrify them. To think that man is amenable to the judgment of God is a very terrible thing, and knowing it, we persuade men.
Rem You calculate to act on the conscience if a man is on moral ground. Nothing acts on man’s conscience if he is not brought on to moral ground.
FER Exactly. In attempting to preach, the thing is to put God and man in their proper places. When Elihu comes to Job, he says, “God is greater than man. Why dost thou strive against him?” He put God and man in their proper, relative places.
Ques In John 5 as to the two resurrections, is that eternal judgment?
FER Yes.
Ques “Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish”, is not that the lake of fire?
FER But man is lost — he is already perishing.
Ques Does it not look on to the lake of fire?
FER I do not know.
Rem The Lord Jesus warns them of the lake of fire. “How can ye escape the damnation of hell?”
FER Yes, but you would not like to take that ground instead of preaching the glad tidings. The fact is, man cannot enter into anything unless he comes under the moral sway of God in the kingdom.
Ques What is “make thee wise unto salvation”?
FER It is akin to growing unto salvation. A man comes into it. As you go on every day you come much more into salvation, you grow up into it more. In present salvation it is taken into account where man is naturally in the eye of God, and God undertakes to save man out of that position.
Ques What do you understand reconciliation to be?
FER Reconciliation is the changing of the man.
Ques In speaking of moral ground, and the ground of the purpose of God, where does reconciliation come in?
FER Reconciliation, is the point of transit — one man is ended, and distance removed. “God was in Christ, reconciling”, not simply that ‘God was reconciling’. It is reconciling in another Man, in Christ. The beginning of it was when Christ was on earth, God was in Christ. It was limited when Christ was here. It is greatly enlarged now, but it began then. “God was in Christ”. There was complacency in the Man whom God put forward — in Christ.
Rem We have reconciliation in the thought of “new creation”.
FER Undoubtedly. In removing the man after the flesh, Christ removed the distance. Not only is the man gone, but the distance is gone, and now “You ...
hath he reconciled”, etc. You could not make one who is an enemy in nature unblameable, unreproveable, etc. New creation is brought in.
Rem In Romans 5 the contrast is shewn — “If, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life”.
FER It supposes you to be in the life of Christ.
Rem Reconciliation is necessarily preparatory to worship.
FER Yes; you could not be a worshipper unless you were reconciled. Then there is a sense of divine complacency. The new covenant is the ministry of what God is to man, and reconciliation is what man is to God.
Ques Is it the same person?
FER Yes — “You ... hath he reconciled”. It is most difficult to dissect things. The mind of God is all one with regard to each person, only we are not prepared, all in a moment, to accept it all. In the termination of man after the flesh, everything that was unsuitable to God went. In the body of His flesh man went, and with man the distance went, that we might be presented unblameable and unreproveable. It is impossible for a man to enter into everything in a moment, he must learn it bit by bit.
Ques Is there the reconciliation of things later on?
FER Yes. Everything is taken up in Christ. He becomes the sun and centre of the universe of bliss, and God can rest in everything, because everything is taken up by Christ. The “restitution of all things” is when all is taken up by Christ. Peace has been made by the blood of Christ — in the cross the whole question of sin has been met for God. Reconciliation involves complacency, and complacency brings you into the rest of God. It is not simply cessation of labour, but the idea of the rest of God is complacency in what He has created.
Rem “He will rest in his love”,
FER Yes, there is complacency.
Ques Did you say we must understand reconciliation to be worshippers?
FER We must be in the reality of it. To be in the reality of it and in the intelligence of it go together.
Ques Might we not be in the good of reconciliation without understanding it by that name?
FER The ministry of reconciliation is for the instruction of the saints. I wonder what amount of worship there was during the last thousand years of Israel’s history, and yet it was said that praise waited for God in Zion. If you go back fifty or sixty years, what was there of worship then? All was formal, almost without exception, almost judaistic. There is little of it now.
Ques What is the difference between reconciliation and new creation?
FER You could not possibly have the former without the latter. “God was in Christ”, and that involves the new creation. “If any one has not the Spirit of Christ, he is not of him”, and “if any one be in Christ, there is a new creation”.
Ques What is the force of being “in Christ”?
FER You are in Christ by the Spirit of Christ.
Ques By the fact of having received the Spirit?
FER Yes. You have received the living word, and by virtue of that you are in Christ. A man in Christ is a partaker, so to speak, of the Spirit of Christ. He has given to us living water, and in virtue of that living water we are in Christ.
Ques Would it be correct to say that new creation is begun in the saints by the Spirit?
FER Yes. I think so.
Ques Would you say a word as to the different way in which “in Christ” is mentioned in Romans 8 and 2 Corinthians 12?
FER In Romans 8 the line of responsibility is still maintained, while in 2 Corinthians 12 the idea of responsibility does not come in. You apprehend “a man in Christ” entirely out of the sphere of responsibility.
Rem It is necessarily abstract.
FER Yes, it is. I should not talk about myself as “a man in Christ”, but I should speak as Paul speaks of it, “I know a man in Christ”. Every christian is in Christ, that is always true, but no christian is out of responsibility. If I talk of “a man in Christ”, I speak of an abstract thought outside of responsibility.
Ques What does ‘outside of responsibility’ convey?
FER A man in heaven. We have to bear in mind the distinction between Romans and 2 Corinthians on the one hand, and Ephesians and Colossians on the other. You get in the earlier epistles what is necessarily consequent on the way in which God has come out, but in Ephesians and Colossians you come on to the ground of purpose.
The apostle does not tell the Corinthians that they are men in Christ, he only says he knows such a man, and immediately he has to drop into responsible life, for “a man in Christ” hears unspeakable words which is not possible to utter down here.
Ques Is there any point of difference between the allusions to reconciliation in Romans and Corinthians?
FER In Romans it is not developed it is just recognised. Virtually it is God saying, ‘I am for you, and you are to be for Me’.
Ques What is the “sword of the Spirit”?
FER It says, “the word of God”.
Ques. How is it used?
FER It is the utterance of God. It is the stability of what God has uttered. What He utters endureth for ever.
Rem It says we are to ‘take’ it.
FER Yes, we are to take it. There is the sense of the stability of the word of God. “The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever”.