THE CONDITIONS OF CHRISTIAN LIFE DOWN HERE
[p. 230] THE CONDITIONS OF CHRISTIAN LIFE DOWN HERE
FER I suggested this passage that we might get an idea of the conditions in which, as christians, we live here; for in living even in a natural way you must live under certain conditions; and so in spiritual things there are conditions in which we live. It is under the New Testament that we live. The testament brings out the conditions in which man can live in regard to God.
Ques Does that come out in this chapter?
FER Well, there is purgation and the inheritance in verses 14, 15.
Rem Then the new covenant brings out the conditions?
FER Yes, and because it sets forth the love and mercy of God.
Rem So that just as it is essential for us to have air and food as the conditions of natural life, we need the love and mercy of God as the conditions of our spiritual life.
FER Yes. The conditions of spiritual life are the love and mercy of God.
Ques Do the conditions involve christianity?
FER Not exclusively, for the same conditions will apply to the Jew by and by.
Two things come out in the chapter: first, the blood of the new covenant for purgation; and secondly, the death of the testator and the validity of the testament.
Ques What is the idea of the covenant being connected with blood?
FER The covenant could not be made without blood — the blood of purgation.
Rem In the first covenant the people were sprinkled [p. 231] with blood.
FER Yes; that was in figure purgation, for you cannot get the idea of purgation without blood.
Ques Was not the covenant the closing up of one condition of things and the opening up of another?
FER Yes. In human things if the father of a family dies and leaves a will, all is changed and the family then have to live according to the conditions of the will.
Ques Does the blood come in here as removing the former state of sins?
FER Yes; it is purgation. You could not come into the good of the new covenant without purgation.
Ques What are the heavenly things?
FER Christianity brings in heavenly things.
Ques Is it heavenly things on earth?
FER Well, that is what christianity is. We have to live in the love of God, and the practical life of christianity is in the revelation of God as He has made Himself known in Christ. The cup which we bless is the new covenant in Christ’s blood.
Ques What does that signify?
FER The disposition of God, which has come out in the death of Christ. Our state has become the occasion for God to make Himself known.
Ques I thought that God commended His love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Is there not a different disposition towards us now as saints?
F.E.R. How?
Rem He loves us now as His sons, He loves us as He loves the Son.
FER The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit that is given to us. The love that God commends to us is the love that is shed abroad in our hearts, and that is the love that was expressed in the death of Christ. He commends His love towards us who are now christians. He loved us in spite of our being sinners, not as sinners, but when we were sinners.
[p. 232] Ques Would you say that all we know now of the love of God was involved in the first expression of that love?
FER Yes; God always begins at the top. He speaks the best thing from the outset. He speaks from Himself — from the top.
Ques Are there not many who never get beyond the fact of God’s love to them as sinners?
FER But there is a root error there. They think that God loved them as sinners.
Ques. What is the fact?
FER That He loved them though they were sinners — in spite of it.
Ques Is there not a condition of soul in which a believer never gets beyond what a convert of a few weeks old has?
FER Yes; and the reason is, they rest in statements of scripture instead of in the Spirit of God. His object is to get souls into the sense of His love, and it is in His house that God is known.
Ques How do we come into the house? Is it by baptism?
FER No; by the Spirit. Baptism brings people into the precincts of the house, “the court which is without” (Revelation 11); but it is the Spirit which brings you into the house of God.
Ques But you would not occupy people with the Spirit within them?
FER But the Spirit is in you shedding abroad the love of God.
Ques Is not the Spirit objective?
F.E.R. How?
Rem You look to Him as a Person to lead you.
FER Yes, and He is a divine Person.
Rem I have been greatly impressed of late with the fact of how very much we have overlooked the importance of the Holy Spirit.
FER I am glad to hear you say that! The Spirit is the great power of christianity.
[p. 233] Ques Are not all baptised people in the house?
FER Infants are not in the house. By baptism they are brought into the precincts of the house where the Spirit dwells.
Ques I have always understood that baptism brought you into the house. Has it not always been taught in that way?
FER It appears to me that Christ is the Builder of the house. No one could be in the house without the Spirit, for it is a spiritual house.
Ques Then you do not look at two aspects of the house?
FER No. I recognise what is called a “great house”, that is, christendom — the result of man’s work.
Ques Judgment begins at the house of God?
FER Well, that is as christians.
Ques. How?
FER Look at the passage, 1 Peter 4: 16, “if any man suffer as a Christian”. Then, “if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator”. If judgment begins at the house of God, it means judgment coming in, in the way of discipline, as regards christians.
Ques Then you do not regard Simon (Acts 8) as being in the house?
FER No, indeed! Christ is the Builder of God’s house, and what He builds is a spiritual house.
Ques In what sense are servants builders?
FER They build up christianity.
Ques Then you would not object to saying they are in the assembly?
FER No.
Ques Then the house of God in the sense you speak of is as much the pillar and ground of the truth as ever?
FER Yes, indeed. I think Christ built the house of God, and the house of God abides which Christ [p. 234] built, and it is the pillar and ground of the truth. The apostle took up an assembly as he found it, and he had misgivings about many in it, but underneath all, the house is there; there may be external confusion, but underneath all the confusion there is the house, which is the pillar and ground of the truth.
Ques What is the difference between the body and the house? We used to think that the house was the external thing, and the body the real and internal thing.
FER I think we have let down too much the ideas of the house; the house is for God and the body is for Christ. The house is the tabernacle of God. In Colossians we get the body; in Ephesians the idea is more of the house.
Rem We were in the habit of regarding the external view of the house to be that which man built, and the internal — the body, that which Christ built, the true thing.
FER What I would maintain is, that though confusion has come in, the house abides as the true thing.
Ques What is the difference between the house and the temple?
FER They are much the same; the temple is the shrine. Christ, when He was here, prepared the materials, and the Spirit given by Him on the day of Pentecost recognised the work of Christ and took up His abode there; and the house has been a complete thing ever since.
Ques What is “groweth unto an holy temple”?
FER That is, it is growing up to the time of display.
Ques What is being builded up a spiritual house?
FER It is in coming to Christ as the Son of the living God, and so you are built up.
Ques You think the house was there at Pentecost, and that the Spirit came and took possession of a complete thing?
FER Yes. Christ as Son of David built the house.
Ques Was the house there before [p. 235] the body?
FER No; the Spirit formed the body.
Ques Would you say the presence of the Spirit constituted the house?
FER Well, all was there, and it only needed that the Spirit should take up His abode.
Ques Then you do not think there are two aspects of the house?
FER I do not; what led me to think about the matter was the passage in Hebrews 3, “whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end”. They were recognised as the house on that condition. Christ is the Builder, and saints are proved to be the house of God if they hold fast.
Ques But you would admit that there is a great house?
FER Yes; there is a great, pretentious thing which is likened to a great house, but I look on the house as really God’s children — His household, His family.
Ques What is building wood, hay and stubble?
FER But that is not into the house at all. I think God brings people into His house that He may instruct them. People in system get little instruction because they do not recognise the presence of the Spirit in God’s house; those who do, have got great gain. What hinders us is the attempt, and that especially on the part of the young, to drag in the world. They have been brought up in connection with the assembly, and have come in without much exercise or opposition, and they, it may be unwittingly, bring the world in with them, and if we do not look out we shall be swamped by it.
Rem We need to live in the conditions of life.
FER Yes, “walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with long suffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace”.
Ques Where does baptism bring you to?
FER Into the precincts of the house, and it involves leaving the world. By baptism you come into [p. 236] the place of profession; it brings a child there, for it is to be brought up in the nurture and discipline of the Lord. It is a great point for me that there can be nothing really here for God at the present time outside of the Spirit, except responsibility.
To return to our subject. We cannot live now except within the limits which Christ has imposed upon those who are in God’s habitation; these are the love and mercy of God. Solomon imposed upon Shimei certain limitations within which to live. If he went beyond them it was death. Christians often expect that they are to be prospered in this world.
Ques That is perhaps why people are unhappy?
FER Yes, they do not live in the conditions of the new covenant, that is, the love and mercy of God.
Ques Do you not think that people live too much down here in the conditions of this life instead of in those of the house of God?
FER Yes, and they are hardly as happy as people in the world, because they are not in the good of either the world or the covenant.
Ques Why do you bring in the love and mercy of God?
FER Because God says, “I will be merciful to their unrighteousnesses, and their sins and their lawlessnesses I will never remember any more”; and He will write His laws in their hearts.
It is a wonderful thing to be in the sense of divine mercy — vessels of mercy. Mercy carries you on to glory. “Looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life”. “Vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory”.
Ques I should like to ask our brother C — as to what the light is he has got lately regarding the Spirit?
Rem It is that I am impressed by the fact that people have overlooked the truth that there is a divine Person on earth, and that we are in the good and power of the presence of that Person here.