THE SANCTUARY (2)
THE SANCTUARY (2)
FER It is necessary to connect in the mind this chapter with the second.
JSO There must be the understanding of chapter 2: 11 before you understand the sanctuary.
ER Chapter 2 is what is for Him; here it is our side?
FER The point in chapter 2 is Christ Himself. We only come in incidentally there. We come in when we are prepared for it as in chapter 5. Before you are prepared for the sanctuary, there must be a certain amount of acquaintance with Christ Himself In His character as Priest.
FER You begin there, that is the first thing in connection with the house; then you get other functions connected with Him, as the Mediator of the new covenant — the Minister of the holy place. There is a progressive acquaintance with Christ which qualifies people for the service of the sanctuary. God’s mind for all saints is the sanctuary, but another question is, how far are we qualified for it?
DLH The point is how we may approach and worship God as revealed.
JSO You must have association with the Priest, and know the way in.
FER I think so. The idea of being sanctified is you are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ, the flesh is gone.
HB What is perfected for ever, in verse 14?
FER It only goes to purgation, when you have no more conscience of sins you are perfected. Conscience is the connecting link between the responsible man and the man in Christ, and the point is that the conscience should be purged. All is new in the christian, “If any [p. 10] one be in Christ, there is a new creation”, but there must remain a link with the responsible man so long as we are here, and that link is conscience, but it is perfected, and you have no more conscience of sins.
JSO The light that acts upon the conscience brings in all the light of the new. The conscience remains in the light of it. You bring in another measure altogether.
FER Yes, nothing enters the sanctuary except what is according to Christ. The ideas of most of us are very indefinite in regard to the holiest.
Ques Is entering the sanctuary collective?
FER We must all enter individually, but it is a question of state. The idea of worship is connected with the company in connection with Christ, and brings in a collective thought, but boldness to enter the holiest must be a question of individual suitability.
DLH If we really had a sense of the holiest it would give a wonderful character to things.
FER Yes, but where there is a large company come together it is impossible that all there understand entering the holiest, so that they do not enter. Take the Corinthians or the Galatians, the company there did not enter.
JSO Apart from state there can be no sense of being of the priestly company.
FER That is the progress from the house to the sanctuary. You are learning the Priest to prepare you for association with Him, that you may serve God in the sanctuary.
JHB The Hebrews were no more in the enjoyment of privilege than the Corinthians.
FER I do not think they were, it is written to lead them into it.
JSO As to their actual state they were low down.
FER There was a tendency among them to turn back.
JHB How does the sanctuary stand in relation [p. 11] to reconciliation?
FER Reconciliation is preparation for it, and comes in at the end of chapter 9. He has made plain the way by which you enter. Reconciliation is deeper than a purged conscience, and refers to the removal of state which does not come on the conscience. You get it in the thought that we are sanctified by the offering of the body of Christ which means the end of us in flesh.
DLH The idea of the body would appear in the Supper?
FER All that condition has been brought to an end in Christ’s death, in order that we may live in the love expressed in His death. As far as I know the sanctuary depends to a certain extent upon God’s ways being for the present hid. God’s ways will not come out publicly until the new heavens and earth, until good and evil are solved. We contemplate God’s ways in the sanctuary while they are hid. There you get a wonderful apprehension of God’s wisdom and ways. I take up the thought of the way by which He gives effect to the purpose of His will. The millennium is God’s ways governmentally, not morally. New heavens and a new earth are the moral result. Righteousness dwells there. God has before Him the ark of the covenant, the mercy-seat, and the cherubim, and if we have boldness to enter the holiest, that is what is before us.
JSO We get into the knowledge of it all by Christ.
FER Exactly, what expresses infinite wisdom to me is that you should get the expression of God in a Man. The ark of the covenant and the mercy-seat have their antitype in Christ. God is perfectly expressed in One who is a Head for man, and hence you have the most unmistakable security for eternal blessing. Nothing can go wrong. God rests there, and we rest there because we are brought to moral perfection.
JSO It is a mere question of time bringing it all out.
FER It is a great point in Hebrews that the Spirit [p. 12] of God binds the two functions of Apostle and High Priest together. You have God expressed in One who is perfect on Man’s side.
JSO That gives depth to the epistle.
FER Hebrews and Colossians bring you to the same point of association. Neither takes you to heaven, It seems to me people have a poor idea of divine wisdom how it exceeds human wisdom which comes to nothing. Human wisdom cannot deal with man’s state.
DLH It is what is said in Corinthians that it comes to naught, and we speak God’s wisdom in mystery.
FER If wisdom means anything it means resource, the light of God comes in. In Proverbs 8: 20, it is said “I lead in the way of righteousness”. That is Man. The One who leads in the way of righteousness is wisdom.
DLH Is that the idea of His being made to us wisdom from God?
FER Yes, He is our resource because He is God’s resource. The mercy-seat is the point where God puts Himself in communication with man, that is in Christ; and beneath the mercy-seat is the ark of the covenant, also Christ who could say “Thy law is within my heart”.
JHB Is eternal life enjoyed apart from the company?
FER It is not enjoyed apart from Christ. In John 4, the object of the well of water is to bring about in you attachment to Christ, and if you get that you come into association with Him.
JHB Is eternal life linked with the sanctuary?
FER In the sanctuary you are really outside of death, and in association with Christ.
JHB May there not be something in our individual experience that answers to that?
FER I think not. But supposing the service of God went on through [p. 13] the week, what then?
JHB But that is not practicable is it?
FER I see no moral reason why it should not be continued all the week.
JHB There might be the desire to recur to the sanctuary all the week.
FER But your individual path and life would take its tone from the sanctuary.
DLH In that respect the priests lived too, though they had a good deal to do with natural life and relations. They had to remember they were priests.
FER And so have we, in our life we have to take care that we do not do anything unworthy of a priest. The bulk of christians today know nothing beyond individual christianity. You cannot get anything properly corporate except beyond Jordan.
JSO It is important in ministering to begin low for the benefit of those who are there, though as to yourself you may be much further on.
FER I think so. I should suspect that the wisest way is to minister at the lowest point.
DLH Ministering from the lowest point, would be from the point where the minister himself is.
FER Otherwise it would not be worth much. My fear is lest you get a kind of assumption on high ground without the necessary foundation. The effects of that may be some fearful apostasy, like going back to church and becoming a clergyman again or the like. I should think that sort of thing is because there is something rotten in the foundation. The foundation is important, and I daresay many were struck with Mr. Darby, he was always working away at Romans.
PRM Would you say some more about the new Head for man?
FER You get that in the ark of the covenant: Christ is the testimony of God. You contemplate that in a way, and learn what characterises God’s testimony. When you come into the sanctuary I think it is the glory of God that is before you; you apprehend God’s glory,
[p. 14] everything is in perfect harmony, that is righteousness and love are in perfect harmony.
JSO In a Man who is Head.
FER That is the point; righteousness is harmonized with love. The mercy-seat must be founded on the ark of the covenant. God could not put Himself in communication with man apart from a Man. You cannot conceive any other way, and that Man was One who was not under the judgment of God.
JMcK God has spoken to us by His Son.
FER Exactly; prophets were only like conduits or pipes though they spoke by the Holy Spirit.
HB Is chapter 1, the antitype of the ark and mercy-seat?
FER The idea is there. God has spoken in Son, that is the mercy-seat.
DLH Do you get the two ideas in John 17; the declaration of the Father’s name, and then love in them?
FER Quite so, and also in John’s epistle, “He is the true God and eternal life”.
JN Does truth ministered objectively produce the subjective?
FER You will not get it otherwise. My idea of ministry is presenting God, and that brings in at once the moral element.
JMcK Is it the object to bring us to the sanctuary?
FER To bring us to God.
PRM What is the bearing of the blood in connection with the sanctuary? What about Christ’s entering?
FER He did not require blood to enter, Aaron did. In connection with the consecration of the priests, blood was not carried into the sanctuary.
JHB Did not Christ enter in the power of His own blood?
FER Oh no. That is not the connection. He has come in the power of His own blood and entered in having obtained eternal redemption. Everything is effected for God in the cross, and Christ goes in as the [p. 15] risen Man of another order. The priest wanted blood to cover him as under death, but Christ goes in not as a Man under death, but as One who could not die.
JSO Could you say a little more about the consecration of the priests?
FER The consecration of the priests gives the idea of priestly privilege, and was normal; what Christ has done is presented in contrast to the day of atonement, when the priest went in with blood.
JSO How do you connect the boldness to enter with blood?
FER It is never applied to us in the holiest; we want it outside. There are three steps for the christian, (1) he comes into the court of the house; (2) he is part of the house; and (3) he is in association with Christ for the service of the sanctuary. Everyone begins with the court of the house, and there he learns the value of the blood. Next he is part of the house, a living stone; and then he is in association with Christ for the service of the sanctuary.
JSO Responsibility was settled at the court.
FER Exactly; if you have anything to say to sin, it must be at the court not in the sanctuary. The bulk of christians never get beyond the responsible christian.
JSO Do you think it is a question of entrance here?
FER Yes, the moment you pass that way, you are done with all that blood applies to.
DLH You cannot connect sin or imperfection with association.
FER People are slow to accept this because they do not like the fellowship of His death, though they believe in it. They are not prepared to hate their life in this world. It is astonishing if you come to analyse your own thoughts at all, how much you are affected and influenced by different things connected with earth; we like to put everything in order down here. I find it so with myself. It is a great thing to be free and to have things suitable to Christ, [p. 16] not yourself.
B — d. What is the living way?
FER Living always connects itself with God, and the world to come. I have been interested of late in relation to it. Everything is living and in contrast to a world dominated by death. There is the living God, Son of the living God, church of the living God, the living way: it presents God to us in relation to a living order of things. The living way is to the living God. The moment the Son came out He is the revelation of the living God. The moment He becomes Man He is the pledge of another order of things. All is living now.
DLH All live to Him, to God.
FER Yes. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are dead for men, but for God they live. It is a wonderful advance when you apprehend the living God, and all connected with Him. He is the Saviour of all men, but all men are not in connection with the living God.
JHB Christ could not be holden of death.
FER That is very important, it shews the glory of His Person.
B — d. What is dedicated through the veil, His flesh?
FER It is the new and living way. He has come out that way, and we go in that way. He really comes out from the heart of God to the cross, to reveal the love of God, and we go back the same way as He from the cross to the heart of God. The veil is His flesh.