THE SPIRIT AS WITNESS
THE SPIRIT AS WITNESS
FER I suppose Peter could not carry out the commission which the Lord gave him until the witness was here. We have had the witness before us and this chapter is interesting in that way. Peter had a commission from the Lord, but in order to carry it out, he had to wait till the witness was here — the Spirit of God.
DLH And so it was in regard to John 20, as well as Acts 2, because there the Lord gives them a commission “As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you”.
FER Only you do not get the Spirit as witness there. “When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father ... he shall testify of me”. What took place in John 20 was not the fulfilment of that because the Lord speaks of sending the Comforter from the Father. The Spirit came to witness to the glory of Christ. What comes out in chapter 20, is connected more with chapter 4 than with chapter 7.
JSO It is connected much more with their own personal state.
ER How do you understand the expression “Which proceedeth from the Father”?
FER It is in what has been accomplished; everything proceeds from the Father. The Son proceeds from the Father, and also the Spirit. “No one can come to me except the Father who has sent me draw him”. “All that is in the world ... is not of the Father”. Everything proceeds now from the Father.
JSO Is the Lord’s breathing on them in John to maintain them as a separated people, until the Spirit should come from the Father?
FER Mr. Darby said that the difference between John 20, and Acts 2, could not be at the present time. In [p. 40] John 20, the Spirit is connected with life, and in Acts 2 with the body. In the introduction of things you are allowed to see the distinction of things.
JSO In John 20, it was a divine Person bringing them into a new position with Himself.
FER I think so, The whole point of that passage is association with Himself, in the new position in which He was as Man. In Acts 2, there is no breathing on them. It is a very great point to see that the gospel is dependent on the church.
J.McK. In what way?
FER The Spirit testifies of Christ. You want the living witness for real power in the gospel. The preacher is not the witness to Christ; it is the church or rather the Spirit in the church.
JMcK The apostles here were witnesses.
FER But the Holy Spirit was the witness. They were witnesses in detail; they had been with Him from the beginning.
DLH Is the point on your mind that the individual testimony of the apostles was not separated from the witness of the Spirit in the church?
FER Yes, nor was it intended to be separated. Their witness really was dependent on the witness in the church.
JSO You must abstract a good deal now because you must leave room for the church failing as a testimony in its witness; and yet look at it as it is under God’s eye, in connection with the Spirit.
FER That is the practical difficulty. You must get abstracted from the outward state of things to get any idea of the witness at all. The Spirit of God is not the witness apart from the church. “We are his witnesses ... and the Holy Spirit also which God has given to those that obey him”. Peter says that. The apostles were personal witnesses of the death and resurrection of Christ, and therefore they had a witness peculiar to them, their own witness, but you do not get them starting out until the [p. 41] real witness was there. For instance they could not bear witness that God had made that same Jesus both Lord and Christ, that was dependent on the Spirit.
JSO Would the knowledge of that preserve the preacher in accord with the church?
FER All the preaching is made dependent on the witness. When the tabernacle was in movement the Levites were entirely dependent on the priests. The priests had to go and cover up the vessels, and the Levites had to take their charge and directions from Aaron and his sons. That is a great point in connection with the testimony.
DLH Would you say a word about the apostles not being able from their own knowledge to witness that God had made Jesus Lord and Christ?
FER It refers to the exaltation of Christ and they did not know that — a cloud received Him out of their sight — but the Holy Spirit came and reported that He was at the right hand of God. If you speak of the Spirit as witness, you cannot separate it from the company.
DLH That is, the Spirit must have a vessel.
FER Christ prepared the vessel, and now you have the witness of the Spirit in the vessel. That was really the witness to the people at Jerusalem which substantiated the preaching of Peter. That is the place of the church as the pillar and ground of the truth.
DLH The only thing is to get to see what the church is normally.
JSA What is going on today is an attempt at great gospel effort but without the church?
FER Yes, and the whole thing is simply rotten.
ERBR Does the evangelist go out from the church?
FER He should be a real witness himself.
Ques Is there not a sense in which the Holy Spirit is with the servant?
FER No service can be carried out but by the Holy Spirit. Every one ought to be an efficient levite,
[p. 42] and be directed by the church in a way. I do not mean that a man is to go and get his direction from the meeting, but I desire that every soul should be in the reality of Aaron and his sons for himself.
JSO The preacher should be so in the understanding of what the church is in connection with the Spirit that his testimony might take character from it.
FER That is the point.
Ques How do you understand “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul”?
FER That is very important because it is the Spirit in the assembly. It was all said in the assembly, and the assembly laid hands on them. If one wants to go forth in power, one must be in the reality and power of the church.
JSO There is a character connected with the testimony, that has at the bottom God’s mind.
DLH An evangelist goes out to seek souls, but to seek them in connection with what is being done by the Spirit. It is not merely a question of getting souls saved from hell, and right for heaven, but of connecting them with what God is doing.
FER The evangelist wants to bring them into what he himself is in. You get the principle in Paul, “I would to God ... all that hear me this day, were ... altogether such as I am, except these bonds”.
HCA A free lance kind of preacher has no base to return to.
FER He is so extremely defective himself. Preaching is not the test of a man, but priestly service is, because you cannot bring the flesh into that. There may be a good deal of flesh and natural energy brought into the preaching. The point is, let us see what a man can do before God, not before man.
HCA Levitical service is severed greatly from priestly.
FER Very largely. A great deal of the preaching [p. 43] today is with a view to people being converted and then letting them drift off to anything.
DLH Yes, the principle is they are all right for heaven.
FER The evangelist’s work is to make them all right for earth.
Ques What do you mean by what a man can do before God?
FER Priestly service is all towards God. The priest has discernment in regard to the leper, but at the same time priestly work is Godward and connected with the sanctuary. A man said to me — a well-known preacher — ‘If I want help and direction in regard to my service, I should go to my brother evangelists’, but I advised him that he would do much better if he consulted the most spiritual.
Ques What is “inheritance among them that are sanctified”?
FER Inheritance of course is present. The way in which you get the inheritance now is by the Spirit, who is the earnest of the inheritance. The inheritance is really reigning with Christ. You are to be here now for the will of God. God brings you to the sanctuary, but the immediate object of the gospel is that men may receive the kingdom. In principle Peter preached the kingdom, the exaltation of Christ, not in terms but in fact, and they received the kingdom, and were baptised. They came under the moral sway of heaven in receiving the word of Peter. You cannot get an idea of christianity except in connection with the Spirit in the vessel, then you get an idea of the real power of christianity down here.
JA The gift of the Spirit has been lost sight of.
FER The apprehension of the Spirit’s presence has brought us where we are.
Ques Where does the evangelist’s work end, and the teacher’s begin?
FER The teacher comes in in the way of continuation, but it is very difficult to draw the line. The evangelist in a general sense would be more to enlighten souls at the outset, and further instruction would possibly be taken up by the pastor and teacher. The truth would be maintained before the minds of people by pastors and teachers.
JMcK In the present state of things one has to be ready to do anything.
FER But I think you must maintain the reality of gift. The gifts are here in the distribution of the Holy Spirit and you must allow for the reality of gift. The great witness is the Holy Spirit. The apostle committed his gospel to the church. The testimony was handed down in the church, and it has been maintained by the church. Everything here for God is in the Spirit. The church is the pillar and ground of the truth, though the Scriptures have authority, and we are responsible to test everything by the Scriptures; what we have to face now is where is the world?
JNB To whom is witness borne now?
FER Well we are in the midst of christendom. The world was distinct when Christ was here. It meant the Jew, and the Jew all through John is treated as the world, and the world was convicted when the Holy Spirit came, but He came to those who were outside the world. What we have to come to today, is the judgment of things morally, you cannot judge of it as they did at the beginning when the Holy Spirit came. Everything outside the saints was the world, but we cannot judge in that way because we are in christendom and hence we have to judge morally, and that is the importance of John’s epistles. All that is in the world is not of the Father.
JSO John 16: 8 is more connected with the Spirit, and His presence here.
FER It is the presence of the Spirit but the Spirit [p. 45] must be in the vessel. When people come back to apprehend the church in its proper character, they get a sense of the position of the world.
DLH In Acts 2, the presence of the Holy Spirit was taken note of by man, by what they saw and heard.
FER Yes, there is another important point: the witness which the Holy Spirit brings that Jesus is Lord and Christ. I think the idea of Lord is authority as against the power of evil, and Christ is the idea of Head; the Holy Spirit witnesses of both.
Rem The acceptance of that testimony brings salvation.
FER It is a wonderful witness which is maintained here by the Holy Spirit not by us, not in doctrine but in power. We are to be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might. The witness of the Holy Spirit is efficient in the church, there is power there, and in addition to that there is gift, so that men go forth as heralds to preach.
DLH Does gift connect itself with the title Lord?
FER Yes, because gift is established down here against the power of evil, and it is made good by the Spirit in man, so that they can stand against the power of evil.
DLH Does the death of Christ bring in the counsel of God?
FER He has taken up the position of Head, that forgiveness in His name may be announced to every man, and that every man may get living water. Mr. Darby once said you could go up to a man in the street and tell him that he ought to be answering to the Head.
THB In what way ought he to answer?
FER He ought to believe in Him. Every man is not a member of Christ, still Christ stands in relation to every man, though every man is not in relation to Christ. Lordship as far as concerns the church is coextensive with the faith, and baptism, Ephesians 4. He is Head to every man as God is God to every man. Much of the [p. 46] preaching has been carried on without the name; it has been left out too much; forgiveness is preached in His name. The evangelist has to enlighten souls. Adam is a type of Christ as Head.