THE ARMOUR
THE ARMOUR
JSO What is the difference between entering into the truth of the sanctuary and being seated in the heavenly places?
FER I think you must come out in conflict from God but you must go in to come out. It is true of Christ; He has gone in to God and He comes out from God when He comes to take up His rights. The same must be true of us, we have to go in to come out.
DLH Would you say a word about the heavenly places?
FER Oh, it is a question of entering into the love that would have me there; it is the soul getting a full entrance into the purpose of divine love. I think it is the idea of resting there. Nothing short of that will really content the love of God. I gather that from chapter 2: 4 “but God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love wherewith he loved us” etc.
JSO What is experimental is properly the conflict.
FER I think so. Entrance into divine love is experimental in a way. You enter into divine love which has its pleasure in having you with God in His own habitation.
Ques What is the difference between the heavenly places and the sanctuary?
FER I think the sanctuary is connected with God’s glory; it is entering into the secret of God. Take Stephen, he entered the sanctuary when he looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus — he saw the sanctuary. The heavenly places is really God’s own habitation. Divine love will have the saints there just as God will have Israel in His own land.
HCA The heavenly places are usurped now by [p. 18] the powers.
FER In a way but they will be turned out.
JSO Stephen as an individual saw the holy place whereas you would speak of heavenly places in connection with the company.
FER Not as to the sanctuary.
HCA Conflict is not connected with the sanctuary.
FER With Stephen it was a question of being full of the Holy Spirit. I connect God’s glory with the sanctuary. The way to enter it is in the secret of God. Heavenly places is an actual place, the sanctuary is not. The sanctuary is light on God’s part and is moral. Heavenly places means heavenly places. John 14 is a place. Seated in heavenly places is put abstractly. It would go too far if the expression ‘Christ Jesus‘ were left out. In Christ we are.
DLH It is a question of the counsel of God.
FER It is counsel made good in Christ and in us in a sense; God has given us that place in Christ. As a matter of fact you are on earth in conflict but at the same time you have a place there.
WJ It is the apprehension of that which brings you to the sanctuary.
FG Is the conflict heavenly life on earth?
FER Heavenly life is the equipment; conflict is that you stand here in the place of the Lord — you take up the conflict which the Lord began. He set Himself against the devil to undo his works and the place of the christian here is to take up the conflict.
FG I was asked yesterday if the assembly was the conflict.
FER You would get into great confusion if you made the heavenly places and the assembly the same place.
JJ It does not mean that the conflict is in the heavenly places.
FER No, the source of the power of wickedness is in heavenly places; we have to meet the influences down here. It is a question of Satanic influences on [p. 19] earth, their seat is in heavenly places and they affect men on earth. It is a contrast to Israel in the land meeting carnal things, fighting the Lord’s battles.
DLH The effort of the spiritual wickedness is to shut people out of the good of the heavenly things.
FER I think so. You have to take the “whole armour of God”. You begin with yourself.
THB Is the conflict individual, although you must be in the sense of the company to be in the conflict at all?
FER I think so, but it is spoken to them collectively. It is the whole christian company which is to be strong in the Lord and in His might. You cannot occupy the inheritance until you claim it. You see that in the Lord; He rode into Jerusalem on an ass as Zion’s King. He claimed the inheritance in a way by testimony before He comes into the actual enjoyment of it. The same principle is true as to us; we have to claim it before we enjoy it.
JSO The Lord has taken it already.
FER Quite so, and we have simply to stand there. It is wonderful to think that everything belongs to Christ — He is Head of all principality and power. We are strong in the Lord, we take up what began with Christ. It is not that we are strong in Christ, but in the Lord; He is against the devil. If we are going to enter upon that ground here we must have the armour, the spiritual equipment.
WJ Is the armour the state?
FER Equipment lies in state. You will not be able to avail yourself of the power of the Lord if you have not the equipment.
JSO It is like the disciples who could not cast out the demon.
FER Exactly. If you lack equipment you will not have the power of the Lord.
THB Is equipment and state the same thing?
FER Spiritual equipment must be in state — in [p. 20] detail it is the breastplate of righteousness, etc., etc. — it is all state.
HCA Is chapter 6 the enemy disputing the entering of the heavenly places?
FER I think it is really the enemy seeking to keep Christ out and the rights of Christ.
WB Keeping Him out from where?
FER From all that belongs to Him. The climax of the enemy’s effort is in antichrist. That is the point to which everything is working now to set up antichrist against Christ.
JSO The question is what place is Christ to have?
FER The devil brings about a master stroke when he sets up antichrist and gets him the support of Babylon. The western world is used to back up antichrist.
THB The saints are set here to hold for Christ what He holds in heaven.
FER I think so; you have to stand for your own inheritance just as Israel had to do; they had to fight for their own inheritance, we have to fight in the way of testimony. Christ has got the inheritance as Head of all principality and power and we have to stand in the truth of that here.
JSO It was the same with Israel, it was Jehovah’s land they had to take possession of to hold for Him.
FER It is the same for us. Everything is gathered up in Christ and we have to stand in the truth of it. I have been greatly struck with the liar and the antichrist in John’s epistle — the liar denies that Jesus is the Christ and antichrist denies the Father and the Son. That is always the form of error. The unitarian will admit Jesus but not that He is the Christ. He was a man here — the Son of Mary — but John’s point is that He was the Christ the Anointed, in whom the will and pleasure of God could have their full place. Antichrist will admit the fatherhood of God but denies the Father and the Son. You find both of the denials in the unitarian, they go very much together. If you admit the [p. 21] revelation — the Father and the Son — you will be prepared to admit that another Man has come in, a Man of another order entirely and that is Christ. It is a new beginning, a new point of departure, and a new Man and order of Man. That is what ‘The Christ‘ means and it involves the setting aside of man after the flesh.
WJ Would you say a word about the armour?
FER The armour is all characteristic. Certain things are given to us in the way of light and truth, but then they become characteristic and they are armour when they become characteristic. You may apprehend righteousness but we are to be characterised by it and formed by the light. You apprehend it by faith but if it is a breastplate then it becomes characteristic. Truth is given to us as divine light, but, at the same time, you are to have your loins girt about with truth.
WB The breastplate of righteousness is practical.
FER It is practical.
H.C.A. Is armour state?
FER It must be to be armour. No holding of truth merely would be armour.
WB Righteousness would come out in practical acts.
FER Righteousness is the demands of rights on God’s part and if you admit His rights you will carry it out and so you will the rights of your neighbours.
JSO The instant the Babylonish garment was there Israel was without power.
FER There was failure of practical righteousness, God’s rights were denied. Covetousness came in, and that always denies God’s rights. Covetousness means that something that is not of God has the supreme place in the affections — it is idolatry and greatly interferes with God’s rights.
WB What is the preparation of the gospel of peace?
FER You have to walk in peace in a scene of moral confusion to which peace stands in contrast. The christian walks in peace. Feet refer to walk and mean practically [p. 22] the sense in the soul that what caused the confusion has been removed from God’s eye. In the offerings I see three things — the burnt-offering, the meat-offering and the peace-offering. In the latter I see the cause of disturbance and confusion removed and we have to enter into that. I want to be clear of the man who has been removed and to walk in the light of it.
WJ The contrast is in Romans 3 “and way of peace they have not known”. Verse 17.
FER Exactly, there is a way of peace and it lies practically in the exclusion of the man who brought in disturbance; otherwise Jew and gentile could never walk in peace. Christ is our peace because both are gone in His death. Christ has made peace; He is our peace and He gives us His peace and we are to walk in peace here. When you look abroad and you see the confusion, it is a very wonderful thing to apprehend that the cause of it has been removed from God’s eye.
JSO It is only a question of time and God will bring in new heavens and new earth.
FER Exactly. Feet give the idea of walk; we become aggressive by the sword of the Spirit.
THB How does the sword come in as regards state?
FER The point is to be in the state to hold the sword. A sword is not armour, it is more than defensive. The armour is protective and the sword aggressive.
T.H.B. What is truth?
FER Truth puts everything in its place.
WJ It is adjustment.
FER It is the expression of things as they are, everything in its proper size and proportions.
JSO Christ is the truth and puts everything in its place.
FER Truth is summed up in two things, the revelation of God and the Man in whom God’s will has its place. You see everything in the light of God and Christ. Stephen saw the truth in the glory of God [p. 23] and Jesus.
WJ You get that in Psalm 73 — in the sanctuary.
FER There you see the glory of God, the ark of the covenant and the mercy-seat. Nothing else is there to be seen except the light of God and Christ. If you take a very wicked man there is no truth about him; if he comes out in all his wickedness he is not the expression of things as they are; it is only for a moment for he will come into judgment some day.
DLH What is the difference between truth and light?
FER They are very much akin. Light is more connected with exposure, it makes manifest and is objective. Truth is really the expression of things as they are, the revelation of God and Christ who is before Him and every one of us ought to be content with that.