FAITHFULNESS TO GOD

FAITHFULNESS TO GOD

Esther 2:5-7; Esther 2:15-23; Esther 3:1-7; Esther 4:1-3

AJG I suppose we always need to remember, in reading the Old Testament, what is said in Romans 15, that whatever things were written aforetime, were written for our learning. It only emphasises how great is this period, in which the assembly is being formed, that God has gone to such pains, all through Old Testament times, to work out in the lives of people and to record in His word things that are intended for our instruction. And I believe this book has a particular voice to us at the present time, having in mind the development in the saints of faithfulness to God, as seen in Mordecai, faithfulness to God and His rights, in the presence of increasing evil, and also the development in the saints of the feminine features of beauty and moral attractiveness as seen in Esther, with a view to their having power with God. As evil increases and the opposition to the truth increases, what God wants, I believe, is that we should have power with Him. He can do things and come in, if necessary, apart from the saints, but He loves to bring us into intelligent sympathy with Himself as to matters: to have His own feelings as to them, and to ask, the Lord making much of asking the Father in His name in John 15 and 16. Mordecai is to be regarded sometimes of course, as a type of Christ Himself, but also as a type of spiritual manhood in the saints. So that in chapter 9, he is called the “man” Mordecai, and he became continually greater. Where the Spirit of God says, “the man” - “the man Moses,” or “the man Mordecai,” and so on, He is stressing, I think, spiritual manhood. And then he is also a Jew, several times he is called the Jew, and I think that is to stress genuineness, according to Romans 2,

where it says, “He is not a Jew who is one outwardly, ...but he is a Jew who is so inwardly.” So the stress on “the Jew” and then “the people of Mordecai,” is to stress, I think, that what God is looking for is genuineness in the saints as over against the insubjection seen in the professing church as typified in Vashti. As the history develops, as we know, we find that evil is allowed to raise its head, with the express purpose, as we read in chapter 3, of destroying all the Jews that were in all the kingdom of Ahasuerus. That is to say, it contemplates that there will be as we can easily see working in the world at the present time, a deliberate effort on the part of the enemy to get rid of all that is genuine. But it is a question of how the matter is to be met, and for the meeting of it, God, I believe, would secure, besides genuineness, which is basic, these two features in the saints, first, fidelity to God and His throne at all costs, and then along with that, the development of feminine features proper to the assembly, features of beauty and moral attractiveness, with the end in view that we should have power with God, as Esther eventually had with the king.

ELE Would you tell us why the name of God, in the ordinary form as we are accustomed to seeing it, is not found in this book?

AJG I believe it is to impress that character upon the book, that it is a question of the workings in an unseen way of evil on the one hand, but of God operating also in an unseen way against it, but operating in answer to the exercises of the saints and not without them.

JHH Did you have Isaac in mind? It says, “The man became great, and he became continually greater, until he was very great,” Genesis 26: 13.

AJG Yes, he is an example of that very thing. We get “the man Moses,” and we get Isaac spoken of in that way as the man, and you get Mordecai,

the man Mordecai became continually greater (chapter 9: 4). So that where Scripture speaks of someone in that way, as the man, I believe it is stressing features of manhood.

RAE Would Mordecai and Esther taken together, bring before us what was mentioned in your prayer, as to the difficulties which the saints have to encounter all being used to form us according to the mind of God?

AJG That is exactly what I had in mind. And one has been impressed with the fact that not only did sin enter into the world, by man, but before that sin entered into the universe through the fall of Satan and his angels, and I believe the challenge that has constituted to God’s throne is being taken up by God in the assembly. I believe He intends to secure in the assembly, in the presence of the evil, a sphere where He can see every right of His maintained and every feature that is pleasing to Him secured. And then, not only will He take up the challenge and meet it fully, so that He is glorified in relation to it, but by the very exercises through which these results are secured. He forms the vessel that has been in His mind from eternity. Because obviously if the assembly is to be the helpmeet for Christ she must be holy, she must have holy sensibilities and intelligence in judgment. No mere innocent vessel would do, she must be a holy vessel. And the work of formation that goes on, corresponding with the building of the woman, I believe is very largely through the exercises caused by our being in the presence of evil.

ELE So you mentioned in your prayer about the ways of God.

AJG Quite so.

MSS Is that the way the all various wisdom of God is made known in the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies?

AJG Well, in one way, I think. Especially as they see how matters are dealt with in the assembly; in the history of the assembly Satan has sought to introduce every kind of evil, and in the assembly principalities and powers see how it is met in wisdom. And then also how God can turn other things to account. Take the war and all that it resulted in instead of its overcoming the saints, it was used to make them more devoted to God and His service, and less held by things that the war could rob them of, and in all that there is brought to light before principalities and powers in the heavenlies, the all various wisdom of God, that He cannot be overcome by evil, but uses evil to the furtherance of His own ends. That must be a great education to the angels.

RS It says, the wrath of man would praise Him and the remainder He would restrain.

AJG Exactly.

LAC Haman was an Amalekite, but would it not be here particularly to show the attack of the enemy and the full end which he has in mind in attacking the saints?

AJG Yes, I think so. It is very significant that we are told quite clearly, that Haman scorned to lay hands on Mordecai alone, he sought to destroy all the Jews. Bearing in mind that the Jew represents what is genuine, “he is a Jew who is one inwardly,” you can see that that is a kind of indication of what I believe is already working, that Satan is planning to bring about conditions amongst men in the world which would make it impossible for the saints to live and at the same time maintain what is due to God. So you get in the first month, that is the month Nisan, they cast Pur, that is the lot, and that is just to remind us, that whatever Satan does in his planning, it is all in the hands of the Lord. The lot is cast in the lap, but the decision is with Jehovah, it says, so that is just to remind us that while there is no doubt that we are in the presence of Satan’s plotting against the saints, though we may not be aware of the detail of it, the matter is actually in the hands of the Lord.

AAT Is it not so that it is a greater thing to be in this present period than to be in a day when there is no evil?

AJG I think it is. It is a day of formation. Of course it is not as great as eternity will be, and when the Lord takes us to be with Himself, the heavenly saints enter into their eternal portion already, although the millennium has not yet come in, but so far as the heavenly saints are concerned, we enter at once, I suppose, upon our heavenly condition and portion. In the millennium we shall have a heavenly place in relation to the earth, but in the millennium God will work out on the earth what He can do in men of flesh and blood.

ELE Would you say the question of good and evil will be solved then? It will be shown then that God can bring about the good and suppress evil?

AJG Yes, it will be demonstrated on the earth, that God can do that, that He can keep evil in check and make good reign, and bless men. But then it will not change the heart of man, so that what happens at the end of the millennium shows that the heart of man is unchanged unless God work in him.

CB The Lord is referred to as “The faithful and true witness.” Would you say the enemy is against those features in the saints?

AJG Yes, I think so. So that we start with this position of insubjection on the part of the queen, which, I suppose, is a figure of the state of insubjection to Christ that marks the church publicly; and it is in that setting that God is working, you might say, secretly, among the saints, to secure an answer to His thoughts.

MSS In that connection, it is not so much the relation of the bride to Christ which is in view in this book, as the delight which God has in the feminine features?

AJG Yes, I think that is it. You could not say that it is the assembly viewed as the bride of Christ, but it is rather the assembly, as learning from Christ by the Spirit, taking on feminine features that are pleasing to God, and doing it now so that we may have power with God. The Lord says, “If ye abide in me,” and that would result in the features of Christ being formed in us, “and my words abide in you,” that would result in our becoming intelligent, “ye shall ask what ye will and it shall come to pass to you.” It shows what possibilities there are if only we can develop in the features of moral attractiveness and intelligence that are contemplated.

MSS When you speak of power with God, have you in mind that there are features in the saints that call for and warrant God’s answer to their prayers?

AJG That is the point, that we should seek to develop in those features. And there are conditions in the world, and they will develop more and more, that require that the saints should get to God in supplication, but then the point is that we must acquire the features that will give us power with God.

HN Have you in mind the thought of discipline entering into this?

AJG Well, yes, that is part of what God uses in formation.

LAC Are you viewing both Mordecai and Esther as types of the believer here?

AJG I think we have to bear in mind that from time to time, Mordecai rises to a type of Christ, but on the other hand there is no doubt that he also represents features of manhood in the saints, particularly the feature of being faithful to God’s rights, he is sitting in the gate; that is, a place of judgment according to God, and nothing will turn him from that, even after he is led in triumph through the city as the man whom the king delights to honour, he returns to the king’s gate.

LAC I was wondering whether Mordecai, as occupying here the more exposed position, might not represent some of our brethren at present, who are being brought, more or less, to the front and are being greatly harassed by the enemy? Whereas Esther occupies more the position of those of us who can be serving by prayer in secret?

AJG Well, quite so.

RS But the threat is against all the Jews.

AJG All the Jews. I believe that is the first thing to keep in mind; it says that there was in Shushan, the fortress, a certain Jew, it is the fact that he is a Jew that is so much stressed. And then in chapter 3: 4, it says that Mordecai “had told them that he was a Jew.” And then later on we get him spoken of as Mordecai - the Jew; see chapter 5: 13; 6: 10; 8: 7, etc. So that it is the great thought of what is inward and genuine, and the hostility was against all that bore that character.

AT Would you say recovery was not in the Jew so much, but in Mordecai?

AJG Well, he is called Mordecai the Jew, that is what he was, a Jew, and that is intended to convey this thought of what we are inwardly. It means what we really are, not what we pretend or might appear to be. But then there were the people of Mordecai. It says, “Haman sought to destroy all the Jews that were in all the kingdom of Ahasuerus, the people of Mordecai.” That is, it is the saints viewed as having that character.

CM Would Mordecai and those with him be viewed as a remnant?

AJG Well, yes, I suppose so. But then we have often been told, that the idea of a remnant really is all that is real in the midst of mere profession, but there may be many who are real at bottom who are not as yet answering to this description of being thoroughly genuine in the things of God, but that is what God has in mind.

AC Would Mordecai owning himself as a Jew be associated with the confessing of the Lord’s name?

AJG Well, it would involve that, definitely. I think it involves truth in the inward parts, and being governed by the truth thoroughly.

SP You spoke just now of the feminine features which are to be seen practically in this day. Would you say a little more about that?

AJG It says in chapter 2: 7, “He,” that is Mordecai, “brought up Hadassah, that is Esther, his uncle’s daughter; for she had neither father nor mother - and the maiden was fair and beautiful.” And then it is a question of her being brought under the care of Hegai, who, I have no doubt, is a type of the Spirit; and what he did for her and with her. And then we read in verse 15, that when the turn came for Esther to go in, “she required nothing but what Hegai, the king’s chamberlain, keeper of the women, appointed. And Esther obtained grace in the sight of all them that saw her.” So first of all she is brought up by Mordecai, which suggests the saints as held and formed under the influence of Christ, learning from Christ: for features of beauty and moral attractiveness can really only be learned from Christ although they are formed femininely in us. They can only be learned in Him. And then the Spirit will take on the work to add refinement to it. There is not only what she was as a virgin; that is, preserved uncorrupted by the world; but she is beautiful, which, I suppose, is what all the saints are as subjects of the work of God; but then she had to be trained under Mordecai first, and then to come under the custody of Hegai with a view to special beautification and refinement.

SP Would you say that is what the Spirit is doing at the present moment amongst the saints?

AJG I think so.

CM What would be the spiritual significance of not having father or mother?

AJG I suppose it would mean that she is no longer under the influence of what is natural, so that she might be held under the influence of Mordecai.

MSS The thought of purification is prominent. It says, that Hegai “speedily gave her her things for purification.” Would that suggest the service of the Spirit to us in connection with moral exercises?

AJG I would think so. And then certain other positive features, six months with oil and myrrh and six months with spices, but it has to be borne in mind, that the great end in view is to make her acceptable to the king. It is a question of what will really make us acceptable to God.

AAT There is a scripture in Revelation 21, “I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” Would that correspond?

AJG I think so. The Spirit is occupied with the bride, and one great thought, I think, connected with the bride, is adornment. It says in Isaiah 61: 10, “As a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.” We can easily understand that the idea of a bride is that she wants to look her very best. She will have special clothing for the occasion, and she will consider what the Bridegroom would like to see her in; and then in addition to the clothing, she will put on her jewels. I am not suggesting, of course, that the saints today in their marriages will go in for fine clothing or jewels, I am only taking up the figure, that that is the idea. It is the suggestion of her spiritual refinement and adornment.

CB Do you think that in that way Timothy was under Paul’s influence on this line? He says, “Keep thyself pure.”

AJG Well, yes, but I think it goes further than keeping ourselves pure. You see, we might be faithful to the Lord, and yet we might not exactly be much formed under His influence so as to take on His features. The Lord says, “Learn from me,” and there are certain features that are the fruit of the Spirit.

RAE Is it remarkable that in verse 20, it says, “And Esther did what Mordecai told her, like as when she was brought up with him. Whatever development there is with her, that position is not departed from?

AJG Yes. That is very good.

EB Learn from Him, would it mean that those features that are seen in Him would be reproduced in us?

AJG Exactly. And that is exactly what the assembly as the bride is to be. She is to be a perfect answer to Christ, particularly in the features of moral beauty and adornment. As the wife it is more a question of fidelity to His interests, which of course, is a very great feature. But the bride contemplates features of special refinement and adornment. And all that is to correspond with Christ, so that God sees it for His pleasure in the assembly. It is the features of Christ formed femininely in the saints.

AAT I heard a remark the other day, which seemed to be new to me, that is that at the present moment the assembly is the “wife,” but the future thought is the “bride.” In natural things the bride is first and the wife comes afterwards.

AJG I think that is right, because the idea connected with the wife is, very largely, that she is faithful to her husband and his interests, and can be trusted in his absence, and that is developed in a full life-sized picture, you might say, in the last chapter of Proverbs, in the woman of worth. She is immediately shown to be a wife, because it says, “The heart of her husband confideth in her.”

MSS It says in chapter 2: 9, “And the maiden pleased him and obtained favour before him,” speaking of Hegai. Would that suggest that it is possible for us not only to grieve the Spirit but to please the Spirit?

AJG I am sure of that, and that is a very important matter, because it is quite clear from Scripture that we can grieve the Spirit, for we are told not to. But if we can grieve the Spirit we can certainly please Him. There is what is grieving to Him and there is what is pleasing to Him.

ELE That shows the importance of reading the Scriptures and being able to see those things that are not actually put there in terms. If we can grieve the Spirit, therefore it must be possible to please Him.

AJG Quite so.

HLH So when the time came for her to go in, she required nothing.

AJG Nothing. And that is an important matter, that we really require nothing to make us pleasing to God, other than what the Spirit will produce in us. No natural energy or natural ability, natural forcefulness of character or anything of that sort, will commend us to God. It is a question of what is formed by the Spirit according to Christ.

HLH Would the sense of that give liberty? We have access by one Spirit, it says.

AJG Quite so. But I think it would exercise us greatly as to what kind of features we are cultivating, and whether we are on the lines on which the Spirit will help us.

VB What may we learn from Esther not making known her people nor her birth? Mordecai had charged her not to do so.

AJG It says in verse 10 of chapter 2, “Esther had not made known her people nor her birth, for Mordecai had charged her that she should not make it known.” And then again in verse 20, we get, “As Mordecai had charged her, had not yet made known her birth nor her people, for Esther did what Mordecai told her, like as when she was brought up with him.” That seems to contemplate that the time is to come when she is to make known her people, which she does, later on, but the time had not yet arrived for it. It may be that it is a question of coming a little more in accord with what we are as born of God before we say too much about it. It is a question of the time coming when we have got to take a stand, and I believe God is doing it with the saints already. But that certainly raises a question as to whether we are equal to what we profess, because the world is very quick to see any disparity and to point it out.

VB Mordecai seemed to have known that, and he was careful that she should not do it. Mordecai walked every day before the court of the women’s house, to know how Esther did, and what should become of her. He was anxious to see those features formed in her, that she might be able to stand on her own feet, as we say.

AJG I believe that is it.

HLH The time came when Esther said, “If I perish, I perish.” That was taking a stand, was it not?

AJG It was, exactly.

LAC In chapter 2: 16, there is the mention of the time when she is taken in to king Ahasuerus - in the tenth month, in the seventh year of his reign. Would the two numerals there suggest the responsibility on our side, and the completeness of what is in the mind of God from His side, coming together,

in our coming into conformity with what His mind about us is?

AJG That is probably right. She obtained grace and favour in his sight, even at this point, but then as things develop, although she has already obtained grace and favour in his sight, she has to take up further exercise as to being further pleasing to him, so as to acquire power with him.

SGH With reference to what you were saying as to the purification, there seems to be some connection with Ephesians 5: 26, 27, “In order that he might sanctify it, purifying it by the washing of water by the word, that he might present the assembly to himself glorious.”

AJG Yes, there is a general correspondence there. The end in view there is that Christ should present the assembly to Himself glorious. Here it is more the king, which I suppose, would refer to God. But still there is the idea of being personally pleasing to Him: or if we regard it as a type of the assembly, pleasing, you might say, corporately.

SP You spoke about faithfulness to God. I wonder if you would say something about the time of Daniel, when those counsellors prevailed on the king to make a decree that no man was to make any petition to any god, but Daniel in spite of all that prayed to his God three times a day. Would you say something more about the faithfulness of God as perhaps in a day like this?

AJG Well, that is very similar to what this book develops. That incident of Darius and his counsellors, is a picture of the position in the world today. Power is no longer in the hands of the sovereign, power is in the hands of his counsellors, parliament or whatever it might be, and that means that even the one whom God has established in the position of authority has to be regulated very much by the will of the people, which opens the door to any kind of opposition to the truth becoming legalised; and that is exactly what is developing in the world.

RS And as one step is downward, another is following downward, and Satan uses it against the saints?

AJG Exactly, that is just why we have to be on the watch, for it is Satan behind it, just as Haman cast the lot. It is a deliberate plotting of Satan against the saints, but we can take courage in the fact that the whole decision is of Jehovah, Proverbs 16: 33; on the other hand God will come in for His people as there are the moral conditions that He is looking for.

ELE So a very popular saying in the world is, government by the people for the people. That is not of God.

AJG No, it is not of God, it just opens the door for Satan to work on the people in opposition to what is of God.

RAE Following on what was remarked as to Esther being pleasing to the Spirit in type, it says in the end of that verse, “He removed her and her maids to the best place of the house of the women.” Would you say something about that?

AJG Well, I am sure the more we are exercised to be pleasing to the Spirit, the more we shall find ourselves having the best portion. That is all I can say. But it is well to notice the incident at the end of chapter 2, because that comes in as indicating what marked Mordecai. It says in verse 19, “Mordecai sat in the king’s gate,” and then again in verse 21, “In those days while Mordecai sat in the king’s gate” these two chamberlains plotted against the king, and the thing became known to Mordecai. So it is the suggestion of watchfulness amongst the saints, as seen in Mordecai, as to anything among themselves that is going to challenge God’s rights. It became known to Mordecai and he related it to Esther the queen, that is, you might say, it is brought to the assembly and it is dealt with. Esther told it to the king in Mordecai’s name. It is really dealt with in the Lord’s name. The matter was investigated and the culprits were both hanged on a tree. So that it is a question of our developing in faithfulness to God in assembly exercises, and that will develop a fibre that will help us in having to stand against what is public.

RS Is it not encouraging that in these days of evil developing and acquiring more power attention is being called more and more to the recognition of the Spirit?

AJG Yes, I think so. And along with that the Lord is calling the attention of authorities and of men to the saints refusing to do certain things for conscience sake, but then that is a testimony to the rights of God, because if one says, I cannot do that, I belong to the Lord, I have a conscience about it, it is not simply the man’s own rights, it is a question of God’s rights, and that is what is being testified to in the world at the present time.

ELE Like the Trade Unions?

AJG Yes, exactly.

LBl Would you say then that when it is a question of faithfulness to God, that which belongs to God will be guarded?

AJG Yes, I am sure of that, but God would have the saints develop in it. The Lord has been supremely faithful to the rights of God, but now God is seeking to develop that same feature in the assembly, that she may really be the Lamb’s wife. The Lamb is the One who suffered for the rights of God here, and His wife must take on similar features.

AT It says, Mordecai sat in the king’s gate, and the husband of the woman of Proverbs is said to be known in the gates.

AJG Yes. The husband of the woman of worth is known in the gates. The gate, all through Scripture is the place where matters are dealt with and judged according to God, and Mordecai sitting in the gate, in its application to us, indicates that we are to take on that feature, particularly in matters that arise in the assembly, that we consider what is right in the sight of God, and do not allow ourselves to be influenced by natural relationships, or natural preferences or anything of that kind.

WH So it calls for faithfulness then in every circumstance of life?

AJG Quite so.

HAL So that we pray for deliverance but we may not always get it, but we stand faithful, is that the thought?

AJG That is the thought. Overcoming, which is such a great matter in John’s writings, especially in Revelation, is not a matter of doing something heroic, overcoming is simply a matter of not surrendering anything that is due to God. You just refuse to surrender. That is how the Lord overcame, He died rather than surrender anything that was right in the sight of God.

JHH Do we see that in Abraham, for God says of him, “For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of Jehovah, to do righteousness and justice,” Genesis 18: 19 Well, quite so. He commanded his children and his household after him, and that raises an important matter which we have not referred to, but it is significant to notice the last verse of chapter l. Following on the insubjection of the queen, the king made a decree “that every man should bear rule in his own house, and should speak according to the language of his people.” So that is an important matter, showing that our exercises really have got to begin in our houses, and every one is to rule in his own house. That is, the man is to accept the position of headship in his house that God has given him, and to bring in divine principles as governing his house. And then he is to see that the language of his people is spoken, that is, he is not to allow the language of the world, he is of God, he is a heavenly person, and he is to see that what is proper to the Christian circle is seen in his own house. That is an important matter, because it is a little sphere of his own in which God disciplines him, and helps him to learn the value of divine principles and the support he gets as he stands by them. And then it also results in his household growing up as potential material for the assembly.

ELE Is that not also found in Nehemiah 13: 24, “And their children spoke half in the language of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews’ language, but according to the language of each people.”

AJG Yes, exactly, that is the contrast to what God is looking for.

MSS Is there anything in the fact, that before this faithfulness of Mordecai in the end of chapter 2, it says in verse 19, “And when the virgins were gathered together the second time, Mordecai sat in the king’s gate.” That is, virgin character is stressed, and the thought of being gathered together too as necessary preliminary to action in the assembly?

AJG That is very suggestive. It is remarkable that we do get in this book a certain suggestion of the increase of the feminine features. You get the seven maidens selected to be given her in chapter 2: 9, and then the virgins gathering together as you allude to. Attention has been drawn to the fact that in many scriptures in which a woman who typifies the assembly is presented, we get maids or virgins connected with her, as showing how God loves to accentuate the idea of the feminine features that He is working for. He has got the assembly before Him so much that He loves to suggest the idea of great increase in feminine features.

ELE Indeed. Is not that so in Psalm 45, the king’s daughters and then the virgins. Companies of women are mentioned.

AJG Quite so, you get it there. And Rebecca had maids, and Abigail had damsels that followed her.

HAL And the spouse in the Song of Songs?

AJG Yes.

RS God has the Man already in perfection, but the thought now is to have the woman in moral correspondence?

AJG That is the idea.

AAT I notice that sometimes you emphasise the masculine, that is the man - the man Mordecai, and now you are emphasising the feminine. How do they balance?

AJG Well, of course, if we regard Mordecai as we may in certain settings as a type of Christ, there is no difficulty about the man. As our brother says, God has the Man in whom all that He looks for is found. But then the idea of the woman, or the feminine features, as we speak, is correspondence with that in the assembly. That is what I understand. Of course, if we regard Mordecai as a type of the saints, he represents more the element of responsibility and stands out publicly, while Esther would indicate more the subjective state that supports that.

WH Esther did what Mordecai had told her.

AJG Yes, that to us would refer primarily, I suppose, to subjection to Christ, but also, I think, it might refer to subjection to teaching in the assembly.

HOE And the Spirit’s part brought in in Hegai, as all being in his custody. I was wondering whether the subjection of the assembly having the first place amongst the families would be seen in Esther and her women being given the chief place in the house?

AJG I should think very likely. It is remarkable what fulness you see in the Scriptures when once you begin to have the light of the assembly as governing the position.

MSS Would it be placed first not so much on account of the counsels of God but on moral grounds?

AJG I think that would be right.

RG Why is it that Mordecai bowed not to Haman?

AJG That was just that he was maintaining the rights of God, because Haman was an Amalekite, he was an Agagite. Agag is a title of the kings of Amalek. He was an Amalekite and God had said that He would have war with Amalek from generation to generation. God is never going to tolerate Amalek. And again in Deuteronomy 25: 17, “Remember what Amalek did unto thee on the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; how he met thee on the way” and so on, “and it shall be, when Jehovah thy God shall have given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land that Jehovah thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under the heavens; thou shalt not forget it.” Well, that had not been done, we know that Saul failed in that matter, but at any rate Mordecai was not forgetting it. He could not exactly blot out Haman, but he would not bow down to him, he would not recognise him at all, and in doing so he is going against the commandment of the king.

LAC Would this incident of personal faithfulness that has been referred to at the end of chapter 2, indicate to us that the testimony can only go forward and the local assembly conditions be maintained, where such personal faithfulness is found with us as set in the kingdom as true subjects?

AJG Yes. It is remarkable here that the king promoted Haman and makes this order, a suggestion, I believe, of the way that God will use evil. He will use the evil that is developing in the world, democracy and all that goes along with it, and will allow it to acquire a certain power, in order to use it for the development in the saints of what He has in mind to produce.

JHH Was that borne out in Job?

AJG You mean He commanded Satan? Yes, quite so.

MSS It says, “After these things,” referring to the action of Mordecai. Would that suggest that there is that now in the saints which is to be tested.

AJG I think so. And He is going to develop it more and more.

HOE Does the thought of the mid-week meeting have a place in what we are saying? As cognisant of the evil that is in the world, and seeking to be faithful, and to be found here pleasing to the Lord and to the Spirit, we are together in a secret way to hold these things in fidelity, and in the middle of the week where we need help, it would serve to carry us on for the other half, as it were.

AJG Quite so.

EMs In chapter 3: 8, it speak of “a people scattered abroad and dispersed among the peoples in all the provinces of thy kingdom, and their laws are diverse from those of every people,” and so on. Would that agree with our being a peculiar people?

AJG It would, and we are scattered abroad and dispersed. Wherever you go in the western world, and what has developed out of it, you will find true believers in all walks of life and all kinds of businesses and so on, and the world is all the time coming up against them, and God intends it should be so. But then Satan’s effort is to get rid of all

the Jews. Wherever there is any genuineness he would like to get rid of it.

LAC It mentions here in the beginning of verse 4, “It came to pass as they spoke daily to him and he hearkened not to them,” - I was wondering whether in addition to this widespread plan of the enemy, which has such far-reaching results in mind, Satan is not set on a constant and gradual and continual effort to break down the spiritual resistance of the saints, by continually harassing them in small matters?

AJG I believe that is so. Some brethren experience that kind of thing very much.

CB Would you say that in the ways of God it is allowed to appear as though evil is triumphing?

AJG It would look like that and yet it does not triumph. There is nothing so comforting as the sense that God controls evil and uses it just as much as He does good. But on the other hand He may allow evil to acquire more power than He would otherwise do, because of the state of the saints, because of our lack of watchfulness or lack of exercise.

ELE At the end we find the woman rides the beast.

AJG Yes, quite so. The woman rides the beast and then the beast overthrows the woman.

LBl Would you say then that this is very instructive for us, because we see Mordecai here in his faithfulness and over against that he is not promoted. So with individuals marked by faithfulness to God, it works out sometimes that there is no promotion or right of way for such, but rather an attack intended to discourage them?

AJG Quite so. Now we ought to read the first three verses of chapter 4, just to show how the matter is taken up feelingly. When Mordecai knows that the decree of the king had been signed, he “rent his garments, and put on sackcloth with ashes, and went out into the midst of the city, and cried with a loud and bitter cry, and came even before the king’s gate”; that is, we ought to be on the watch as to what is going on in the world in so far as it effects the saints. And even if we ourselves are not affected by Trade Union persecution and other forms of the enemy’s attacks, we should feel for and with those who are thus affected, and take it up with God feelingly.

RAE Would you say that while in a secret way we are to rely in our souls that God is going to eventually triumph and the testimony go through, yet, as these things arise we present right feelings to Him at the time about them?

AJG That is what is in mind, and the importance of it is confirmed by the end of chapter 9: 31, where it says, “To confirm these days of Purim in their fixed times, according as Mordecai the Jew and queen Esther had enjoined them, and as they had decreed for themselves and for their seed, as to the matters of the fasting and their cry,” as though God took special account of the cry, the feelings.

RS Would that remind us of Christ on the cross presenting a holy atonement to God? It was not only that He was suffering in judgment but He was presenting feelings proper to God in connection with the question of sin. Is not this feature of proper feelings one to be taken on by us?

AJG I have no doubt it is. It says, “By the eternal Spirit offered himself spotless to God,” so the offering of Christ was marked by feelings that were of God.

ELE In this incident it looks as if Mordecai is weakening, he is sorrowing, and it might seem as if he was giving way, but he is feeling the thing before God, and the answer comes in from God.

AJG Yes, exactly.

CM What would be the meaning of putting on sackcloth and ashes?

AJG It was just an expression of really feeling things.

BA Do we not see the faithfulness of the saints commended in the book of Revelation, “Because thou hast a little power and hast kept my word and hast not denied my name,” and so on?

AJG Yes, we do. Faithfulness is commended there, and there is the great answering recompense in the opening up of the truth, an opened door which none can shut.

MSS Would this lead us to be prepared for a general attack on the testimony publicly if the Lord leaves us here a little longer?

AJG I do not think there is any question that that is what Satan will do if he is permitted.

AT So Esther obeyed Mordecai and Mordecai was faithful in the position?

AJG Quite so.