WHAT IS DUE TO GOD IN THE ASSEMBLY

WHAT IS DUE TO GOD IN THE ASSEMBLY

1 Samuel 2: 18 - 30; 1 Samuel 3: 15 - 21; 1 Samuel 7: 15 - 17

AJG The setting of these early chapters in the first book of Samuel is that there is great evil all around in that which was outwardly in relationship with God, and that in those conditions Samuel is introduced, and he sets forth first of all the idea of the service of God in that he ministers to Jehovah. And then he sets forth also the thought of the mind of God being brought in for His people in the prophetic word, and then he also sets forth the idea of judgment, judging of matters rightly according to God. All these three things are of the greatest importance at the present time. God looks to be served in the assembly, and He contemplates that His mind should be known in the assembly, and He contemplates also that matters should be judged according to Himself, what is right being maintained and what is wrong being refused; He contemplates that this should be maintained in the assembly, and Samuel represents that. But what is running right through, and is especially emphasized in chapter 2, is that there must be a moral basis for all this, and when we speak of a moral basis we mean that none of these things can be secured in any reality or power unless there is the maintenance with us of what is pleasing to God and the refusal of all that is displeasing to Him. So that Samuel was the product under God of his mother’s exercises, she desired a man-child and vowed that if God would give her a man-child he should be given to Jehovah all the days of his life, and no razor should come upon his head. That is, he was to be a true Nazarite, characteristically marked by separation to the Lord, and that underlies all that follows. It begins very small in Samuel as a child, but these chapters show how he grows, it says in verse 21 of chapter 2, “The boy Samuel grew before Jehovah,” and then in verse 26, “The boy Samuel grew on, and was in favour both with Jehovah and also with men,” and then in verse 19 of chapter 3, “Samuel grew and Jehovah was with him.” So that what is contemplated is the growth of this element of what is priestly as underlying everything else.

AAT While he had to do with the service he was not a Levite of the house of Aaron, was he?

AJG He was not officially a priest, he was not of the house of Aaron. He was a Levite but he was not a priest. He was not of the priestly family, not being of the house of Aaron, but though not officially a priest he was one morally, and that is really our position, if we may say so humbly, if we maintain what is pleasing in the sight of God. While we are not officially priests, the world around regards the clergy as the priests, yet we are truly priests if we maintain the moral conditions.

CB Would you say the official side of priesthood seen in Eli was dying out, but the moral side God was causing to increase as Samuel grew?

AJG That is just what is in my mind. The official priesthood was being set aside because of its evil, but God does not set a thing aside until He has something to take its place, and so He already had Samuel there. It says, “Samuel ministered before Jehovah, a boy girded with a linen ephod,” stressing what is priestly, for the linen ephod is a priestly garment.

AKH So that in verse 30 it says, “But now Jehovah saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour,” shewing that there is the moral side.

AJG That is it exactly, and we always have to bear that in mind, that the moral side must underlie everything in the way of privilege in God’s things, and that God’s principles are unchanging. That whoever we may be, if we despise Him we shall be lightly esteemed, and if we honour Him we shall be honoured.

MSS Would you say that the exercise and the distress and even the waiting gone through by Hannah would all enter into what you have spoken of as the moral basis underlying assembly service?

AJG Yes, I think so. No doubt in that time of waiting she would be searched in her own soul as to what it was she really desired, and whether she really was considering for God or for herself; she would thus be searched as to her motives.

MSS It is not something to be arrived at easily or lightly?

AJG No.

LAC Did you have in mind saying something about the man of God who comes to Eli before Samuel speaks to him?

AJG Well, the man of God came to Eli in order to emphasize the fact that although God had promised the priesthood to the house of Aaron, yet He was now going to set it aside. It is stressing the moral side. He said, “I said indeed, Thy house and the house of thy father should walk before me forever. But now Jehovah saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.” The man of God came to say that to Eli.

WR What is stressed in the word “before” constantly recurring in the early verses of chapter 3?

AJG “Before Jehovah,” you mean, in verse 18 of chapter 2, and then in the beginning of chapter 3, “Before Eli.” Samuel ministered before Jehovah. I think that would mean that Jehovah was taking account of him. And then it says he ministered to Jehovah before Eli, that would mean that Eli would be taking account of it. And what a contrast it would present to what had been found in Eli’s sons.

JJ I suppose that would suggest that God would have the first place in our affections, because he ministered to Jehovah and then to Eli.

AJG And it is not to be a sentimental thing with us, it is to be a real thing, that we honour God in pursuing the things that are pleasing to Him and refusing the things that are not pleasing to Him.

AT Would verse 18 suggest what is potential here?

AJG I think so, he is called a boy, girded with a linen ephod, and then the scripture emphasizes how he grew. That is, the right idea is there now, he is girded with a linen ephod. Linen ephod is the priestly garment and represents righteousness practically, maintained and preserved by him, so that it is characteristic of him. And that is the beginning with every one of us if we are to have part, either in the service of God or in the ministry or in ability to judge, we must see that the moral conditions are there first.

LBl Would you say what is seen in Hannah is suggestive of the motherly element in the assembly, that which is needed to help lay a moral basis as you are stressing?

AJG I think so, and I was struck with the fact that when she vows she says, in verse 11 of chapter 1, “I will give him to Jehovah all the days of his life,” but when she brings him to Eli she says, according to the last verse of chapter 1, “Also I have lent him to Jehovah: all the days that he lives, he is lent to Jehovah,” First she says “give” and then she says “lent,” which I think means that while she does give him to Jehovah she is recognising her responsibility to look after him, and so she says “lent.” That is to say, she is retaining a hold over him, because she recognises her responsibility to see that he is brought up rightly.

LBl Hence she is seen carrying out her duty towards him in the little coat that she brings yearly?

AJG Yes, exactly. She brings a little coat yearly and made it for him, “a little coat, and brought it to him from year to year.” And that would greatly exercise her as to her own behaviour, for she has got to be an example to him and exercise moral influence over him, and to make a little coat and to bring it to him year by year.

AAT And as she brought it year by year, it would be a little bit larger, would it not?

AJG Quite so.

AAT So that in the meantime he is growing.

AJG Yes. But you can easily understand that if she was conscious that he was growing and needed a bigger coat, so to speak, that would exercise her greatly too, was she growing? Because she had got to exercise an influence over him.

HOE It says in verse 35 of chapter 2, “I will raise up for myself a faithful priest, who shall do according to what is in my heart and in my mind; and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed continually.” Is that what God is going to introduce in place of what is official?

AJG Quite so. Displacing what is official but bringing in what is faithful.

SW Is it not remarkable what is said of Samuel here and what is said of the Lord? In verse 26 it says, “And the boy Samuel grew on, and was in favour both with Jehovah and also with men.”

AJG You mean that that is very like what is said of the Lord in Luke 2? Quite so.

MSS Is it striking that the first thing said of Samuel when he was brought to Eli, at the end of chapter 1, is that he worshipped Jehovah, and then in the beginning of the passage we read this afternoon (verse 18 of chapter 2) he ministered before Jehovah, the thought of worship to Jehovah is stressed in one so young. Would you say something about that?

AJG Well, she brought the boy to Eli. I know it reads as though it was Samuel who worshipped, but it is just a question as to whether it means that Samuel worshipped or whether it means that Eli worshipped as he found the boy brought to him. But at any rate, the service of God, in the expression “ministered before Jehovah” and then “ministered to Jehovah” is the prominent thought in this second chapter and the beginning of the third. And I believe it is a most important thing for all of us to bear in mind that priestly service must underlie any other service, and if what is priestly is neglected we cannot expect power in any other service.

MSS We have the same thing in Acts 13 where they were ministering to the Lord and fasting before Barnabas and Saul were sent out?

AJG Yes, quite so.

JJ What is seen in Samuel would show that God would use the youthful element?

AJG Yes, I think so, only it is not to remain youthful, it is to grow.

AAT Then it is very encouraging to see a very young brother take up the privileges of the service?

AJG Yes, it is, and take it up with the intention of maintaining it too.

CB Would you say that the maternal element in the assembly is watching for the growth of the saints in this connection?

AJG Yes, I would, indeed, and one is becoming more and more impressed with the responsibility of older brothers and older sisters to care for the saints in a moral and spiritual sense. I believe it is a great responsibility on those who are older to exercise affectionate oversight of the younger ones in regard of what is moral and what is spiritual so that conditions may be preserved among us. And if we are to do that, we must first, of course, look to ourselves and see what kind of example we are setting, and what kind of influence we are exercising.

SW Is it not remarkable in the ways of God in allowing barrenness in any one like Hannah, as also with Sarah, so that exercises of that kind are necessary before He comes in and gives increase, that it might be regarded as for God and not for themselves?

AJG I am sure that is right. And the result is that while there is exercise and rightly so, there is the recognition that it must be wholly of God, if there is to be anything for Him.

AY It is remarkable to see where Samuel is found at a very early age, in verse 3 of chapter 3 it says, “And Samuel lay in the temple of Jehovah, where the ark of God was” - giving Jehovah an opportunity to call upon him. It was there that God called upon him.

AJG Yes, quite so.

RAE How is it that in verse 1 it says that he ministered to Jehovah and in verse 7 it says, “Now Samuel did not yet know Jehovah”?

AJG Well, I suppose, as to the fact, whatever service he took part in at this time was more formal than what we have in Christianity which is in spirit and in truth. It would be more formal, and he did not yet know Jehovah, but now Jehovah was going to make Himself known to him, and He began by impressing upon him the moral side of things. One has often marvelled at that, that to a young boy like Samuel God could speak to him about the evil of Eli’s house and how He was coming in in judgment that would make the ears of everyone who heard it tingle. One has often marvelled that God should speak to a boy like that, but He intended Him to start with an impression that evil was evil, and that God was to be feared.

RS It is said that Eli did speak to his sons, but in verse 29 God says, that Eli honoured his sons above Him.

AJG Yes. That is the solemn thing that he did speak to them, but had no power with them, and evidently that was the result of his having previously honoured them rather than God. And so when the time came to speak to them he had no power with them. It was the same with Lot, he had no power with his sons-in-law. If we want to have power with people we must see that we are honouring God ourselves.

LAC There was here what was before Eli and before Jehovah, as you have remarked, but there is the statement of what should then be before “mine anointed” in verse 35, “And he shall walk before mine anointed continually.” Would that be a reference to God’s king whom He would bring in in the person of David, who would take precedence of the priesthood?

AJG Yes, I think so, and I have no doubt the priest is an allusion to Zadok. It may be that both the faithful priest and the anointed are an allusion to Christ, but directly I have no doubt that God was speaking of David as His anointed and Zadok as His faithful priest, because Zadok replaced Abiathar who was the last of the seed of Eli to hold the priesthood.

CB And would you think that Jehovah speaking to Samuel at this early age of the evil of Eli’s house would make a very early impression on him as regards what evil is in the sight of Jehovah?

AJG Yes. I think it is very important in these days that we should be exercised to maintain the elementary principle of the fear of God, and regard evil as God regards it, because we are living in days of very great privilege and very great blessing in the way of ministry; and yet from time to time we hear of evil in our midst, showing that Satan is all the time trying to get in, and we hear of things that we would have been saved from if there had been the fear of God. So Solomon in the Proverbs says, “Be thou in the fear of the Lord all the day.” (Chapter 23, verse 17).

AAT I suppose it would be right to say that Samuel was the only one in that day in the whole of Israel that got a word direct from God?

AJG We cannot say that, because there is this man of God who came to Eli and said, “Thus saith Jehovah” - so he got a word from God. But Samuel evidently became the appointed channel by means of which God would place Himself in communication with His people.

AAT To what extent in our day do you think, with the presence of the Spirit, could we get communications?

AJG I think anyone who is near to God can get communications, the Spirit being with us, but then that does not set aside the fact that it seems to be the Lord’s way, in the recovery of the truth, to give a distinctive lead for the assembly through one vessel whom He sovereignly chooses and supports. But that does not set aside the fact that many may get the word of God for the moment, many may prophesy.

HOE A man of God would be one who has the word of God for the moment, and is not this a word of ministry to Eli?

AJG Yes, it is the word of Jehovah to Eli, exactly. It is not exactly general for all Israel, it is a particular word for Eli.

HOE Is not that how God works. He never lets us fall without giving us a word of warning and pulling us up, is not that right?

AJG Yes, quite so.

AKH Would this verse in Ecclesiastes bear out what you are saying? It says in verse 12 of chapter 8, “Though a sinner do evil a hundred times,

and prolong his days, yet I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, because they fear before him; but it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days as a shadow, because he feareth not before God.”

AJG Exactly. And we get Psalms on the same line, “Fret not thyself because of evil doers” (Psalm 37: 1), and so on. Those who do not fear God may seem to get on well for a time, but there comes a time when God steps in and things are exposed.

AY You said a little earlier how God can begin in a very small way, as seen here in Samuel. Is that because, in spite of the failure that was coming in in the priesthood, God was beginning with Samuel in this way with a view to maintaining the link with His people in spite of the failure that was coming in?

AJG Yes, he begins with this small element of considering for God, priestly element, girded with a linen ephod. It is the priestly element that he starts with, and then other things can develop from that. Prophetic power, and the power for judgment, will all spring out of the maintenance of the priestly element.

JJ So that priests are not only official persons but persons who have moral qualities? Would you say that those features were seen in both Peter and John?

AJG Yes, I think so, I think that always holds good. When we speak of the priestly element we mean the element of considering for what is due to God. Of course, we are able to be priestly as having the Holy Spirit, and if the Holy Spirit is not grieved with us we shall be priestly in fact.

LAC You referred to the public system, and on the other hand that which in secret is for God and His pleasure. Do you think in that connection that the Spirit of God takes pains to record the feelings of a person who can pronounce an Ichabod on the whole thing and do so feelingly, being grieved that the ark of God is taken?

AJG You mean that there are such persons as Phinehas’ wife, as well as Hannah, who evidently were feeling things? Quite so, and God takes account of them. But then it is not sufficient in a sense to feel things, what is needed is the man-child, that is, the fruit of exercise was a man, not a child, it has to begin a child but it has to grow up to manhood through exercise.

HP And that has in mind maturity for service?

AJG Yes, exactly.

HOE Does the order that you have in mind in these features correspond with the movements of the testimony here now in our weekly movements? First there is the priestly service and the service of God, and then the ministry meeting and the care meeting?

AJG Well, you might put it that way. There is the service of God, of course, on the line of privilege, and there is the service of God in prayer on Monday, and we look that God will give the prophetic word, either in the meeting for ministry or in reading meetings, or other occasions, so that His mind for the moment is made known, and then, of course, there is the element of judgment which is not a matter only for the care meeting, the care meeting is only preparatory, and in the way of ascertaining facts and so on. The matter of judgment is a matter for the assembly. But of course, we all ought to develop in the faculty of judgment.

RS Is not the continual judging of oneself a means by which we develop in that faculty?

AJG Yes, it is, and the fact that every day of our lives, as being in an evil world, we have to exercise it, we have to choose the good and refuse the evil, and come to a judgment of what is good and what is evil and so on. So that every day of our lives we are to be exercised on the line of spiritual judgment.

CB Although it does not say that Samuel was a priest, it says he was a prophet.

AJG Yes. So it shows that it is not a question of what is official, he was not officially a priest, but it is a question of what is moral, morally he was a priest before he was a prophet.

MSS Would you say there was a general similarity here with what you get in the beginning of Revelation in the Lord’s word to the assemblies, that Samuel was in the position of an overcomer? I was thinking particularly of this word to Eli in verse 27 of chapter 2, meanwhile the Lord in His addresses in Revelation is bringing home to the responsible element the fact that they were implicated. Eli was responsible, in spite of the fact that he had spoken to his sons, yet he still remained responsible. Then over against that Samuel representing the overcomer.

AJG Yes, quite so. And then another thing that comes to light in verse 18 of chapter 3 is that he is faithful. It says in Jeremiah, “He that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully” (chapter 23, verse 28), and it would be a great test for Samuel as a boy to repeat faithfully to Eli all that God had said to him in the night, but he did it, he was faithful. Eli charged him to keep nothing back, and it says Samuel told him all the words and kept nothing back from him, and he said, “It is Jehovah, let him do what is good in his sight.” And immediately after that it says, “And Samuel grew, and Jehovah was with him,” as though this was a consequence of his having answered to the test as to whether he was going to be faithful. God could now entrust him with the prophetic word, so we read that he was established a prophet of Jehovah.

AY In speaking the words of Jehovah, would there be seen a certain amount of authority in it? I was thinking of what we get in verse 27, “Thus saith Jehovah,” it is the word of God, and does it carry authority with it?

AJG Yes. Quite so. “Thus saith Jehovah” is authoritative.

LAC This matter of speaking everything in faithfulness. Would that refer to the entire unburdening of exercises at a ministry meeting for instance? Being faithful to the saints in speaking what perhaps one has as an exercise laid on one’s heart?

AJG Well, it refers to a word from the Lord. Samuel had had a definite word from the Lord, and it says, “Samuel told him all the words and kept nothing back from him,” so that in Jeremiah it says, “He that hath my word let him speak my word faithfully.” It is a question of having a word from the Lord, not necessarily just an impression, even though it be a spiritual impression. It is a question of knowing whether or not it is a word from the Lord.

LBl Would you help us then to distinguish between the two, an impression and a word from the Lord?

AJG The impression might be a word from the Lord, but it is a question of spiritual understanding, I think, and being near to the Lord. I was speaking rather of the principle as “He that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully.” And that is what Samuel does before he is established a prophet, as though he is tested as to whether he can be trusted with the word.

JS You mean a word for the time?

AJG Yes, quite so.

AAT And Eli accepted the word as with authority, did he not?

AJG Yes.

AAT So that in ministry it is not only a word, but a certain amount of authority?

AJG Quite so.

RAE Is there anything to be learned from what is said in verse 15, that after having this serious communication from Jehovah, it says Samuel lay until the morning, and opened the doors of the house of Jehovah, and Samuel feared to declare the vision to Eli.

AJG That shows how serious it was for him, he feared to declare it. And of course, until Eli spoke to him, I suppose he was under no responsibility to declare it. It was a word to him, it was not said to be a word to Eli, it was a word to Samuel. Only Eli charges him to tell him and to keep nothing back, and that proved to be the occasion for Samuel’s faithfulness to be tested. Is he going to do it faithfully and keep nothing back, or is he going to water it down!

CEH Do you think the seriousness of that which he had been told helped him to be faithful in delivering it?

AJG Well, I think so.

AAT Three things are said, Samuel “grew,” “Jehovah was with him,” and He “let none of his words fall to the ground.” A servant like that would be well supported?

AJG Well, and that shows that things are gradually improving - Samuel grew. Samuel represents the element that is pleasing to God and he grew. And then the Lord was with him, the Lord is going to support those who are on moral lines. He is not going to support mentality, He is going to support those that are on moral lines. And then it says, “He let none of his words fall to the ground.” I take it that means, that now that God had recovered the right element in Samuel, He secured the right material in the people, so whatever Samuel said, someone was there who would take it on. None of his words fell to the ground, someone at any rate, in Israel, received Samuel’s words.

LBl Would you say that the apostle Paul encouraged Timothy along this same line, “Let no one despise thy youth, but be a model of the believers, in word, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.” (1 Timothy 4: 12).

AJG Yes, you mean that Timothy is enjoined to become authoritative by his behaviour, the features that would be seen in him would lend authority to what he said.

EMs So we see here that things are advancing. First of all, we have the word of Jehovah, but now in verse 21 it says, “Jehovah revealed himself to Samuel.” What is the difference?

AJG Well, “Jehovah revealed himself to Samuel at Shiloh by the word of Jehovah,” that is, it was not simply one communication but now he was becoming recognised, and God Himself was recognising him as a means of communication between God and His people.

AAT What does Shiloh indicate?

AJG Shiloh was where the ark was at that time and therefore it represents, I suppose, God’s centre, where the tabernacle was. But it says in the end of verse 1 of chapter 3, “The word of Jehovah was rare in those days, a vision was not frequent,” but now the end of chapter 3, “Jehovah revealed himself to Samuel at Shiloh by the word of Jehovah.” That is, the word of Jehovah is no longer rare. It was rare at the beginning of the chapter because of the moral condition among the people, but now at the end of the chapter Samuel has grown and there are improved conditions, and so the word is becoming available.

LAC In connection with Jehovah speaking to Samuel, in the first three instances it just says, Jehovah called, but finally it says in verse 10 of chapter 3, “And Jehovah came and stood and called.” The word literally is “stationed oneself.” Would you think that there is a suggestion in that that God saw in Samuel moral conditions with which He could identify Himself, to which He could commit Himself in testimony.

AJG Yes, I think so.

RS Then it speaks of Samuel’s words not falling to the ground, it speaks of Jehovah’s words and then Samuel’s words.

AJG Well, exactly, it was Jehovah’s word but it was Samuel’s words. That is, God is honouring Samuel. Samuel has honoured God and God is honouring Samuel.

HP In the 18th verse of the 2nd chapter when Samuel ministered before Jehovah, would that bring out secret history with God?

AJG I think it would. He ministered before Jehovah, not before the eyes of men but before Jehovah, a boy girded with a linen ephod. That is very good, that it is first of all before God, and that would involve the necessity for the suited moral conditions.

AAT Referring back to the first verse that you spoke of, that the word was rare and visions were not frequent. The twelfth chapter of 2 Corinthians says, “I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ.” Is there any connection there, do you think, in the thought of visions?

AJG Well, a vision was one of the means by which God made known His mind, but “a vision was not frequent” and “the word of Jehovah was rare” simply emphasise, I think, that the moral conditions were such that God could not communicate with His people. It was very rare for Him to do so because of the conditions. But then with Samuel being brought in and growing, the conditions improve so that the mind of the Lord can be made known. But visions are one of the things that are mentioned in regard of the coming in of the Spirit, “Your young men shall see visions, and your elders shall dream with dreams.”

That is, it is the different forms in which God would make known His mind.

AAT How would you describe a vision today?

AJG I suppose these visions referred to were actual visions which we may not have very often, but still, visions in a general way mean that you can see things. The Spirit of God enables you to see things.

HOE What you say about Samuel’s word not falling to the ground is new to us, in that there would be always someone there to take it on. We have thought that what it meant was that what he said would not fail.

AJG Well, I think it might carry that meaning too. But it seems to me that, however good his word was, if there was no one there in Israel to receive it, it would fall to the ground. I think the point is that now God is bringing in recovery in Israel and there were some, at any rate, who had an attentive ear for anything that God was saying through Samuel.

HOE In contrast with the beginning of the chapter?

AJG Yes.

RS Would you think then that his words were to go through from generation to generation without falling, including recovery?

AJG Well, exactly. It is really that it is to bring about right conditions for David, that is what Samuel’s ministry had in mind. It was to prepare the way for David. But in a general application of it, the point is that there should be an ear amongst us for anything that the Lord is saying so that it should not fall to the ground.

AKH Would Jehovah’s reference to “both the ears of everyone that heareth it” indicate that He knew that there would be in Israel a hearing ear?

AJG That may be indeed. But we get a reference in Amos 3: 12, to the recovery of a piece of an ear, “Thus saith Jehovah, like as the shepherd rescueth out of the jaw of the lion two legs, or a piece of an ear, so shall the children of Israel be rescued...” and so on. A piece of an ear. That is a very low condition of things, that the most that can be rescued is just a piece of an ear, but still that is better than nothing.

CB God would get an inlet if even a piece of an ear was secured?

AJG That is it, and, of course, if He gets an inlet then the piece of an ear will gradually become a whole ear and then two ears.

RAE Would that be proved in the next verse, the result of the piece of an ear, so to speak, is in verse 20, “All Israel, from Dan even to Beersheba, knew that Samuel was established a prophet of Jehovah”?

AJG Yes. Now He had really got the ear of the people, speaking generally.

AY So would you say, in that sense, the ear is very important. That would lead on to our day in Revelation, He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit is saying.

AJG Quite so.

BA Do we see how ready Samuel is to use his ears? He says, “Speak, for thy servant heareth.”

AJG Quite so.

RS And it says, faith comes by hearing.

AJG Quite. We get two expressions, we get the Lord in the gospels saying, “He that has ears to hear let him hear,” as though He would stress that He is looking for people who have got both ears, ready to listen. But in Revelation it says, he that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies, as though it is a question of having just one ear, and you have not got an ear for anything else.

AAT And is it not remarkable that in Acts certain things came to the ears of the assembly?

AJG Yes, quite so.

SW Should we not be careful then not to be like Peter to use the sword to cut off an ear too quickly?

AJG Well, that is very important. You do not want to offend a person through acting ungraciously or unwisely because it may cut off his ear.

AT Would you tell us the importance of the Lord calling Samuel’s name twice?

AJG It is the urgency and importance of the matter, I think. He says, “Abraham! Abraham!” and “Jacob! Jacob!” and “Moses! Moses!” and “Samuel! Samuel!” and “Martha! Martha!” You get certain instances where the name is called twice, “Saul! Saul!” - and in each case, I think, it is the urgency and importance of the matter.

LBl Do you have in mind to suggest, then, the great yield there would be for Jehovah now that Samuel is developing in growth.

AJG Yes, quite so. And the importance of the prophetic word. We ought to be concerned about it, that there should be the prophetic word, the mind of God in an authoritative way brought home to the saints, because it says in Hosea, “By a prophet Jehovah brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved,” so that the prophetic word is used to deliver the saints from the world, and a prophetic word is used to preserve them as delivered from the world, so that they may be in the wilderness for God’s pleasure.

RAE As there is the maintenance of the fear of God and what is right in His sight in these moral conditions, this element amongst the saints is strengthened? You have not so much in mind any individual as communicating the mind of the Lord, but this element amongst the saints, that it is a continual matter that we habitually have the Lord’s mind, is that it?

AJG That is what one has in mind. The apostle says, “Ye can all prophesy one by one.” It is not just a question of giving out something that we have in our mind, it is a question of the word of God for the moment, God’s word.

AAT Even a sister could be used?

AJG Not in the assembly, of course, but privately a sister can be used.

CB What is suggested by Samuel judging Israel all the days of his life?

AJG That is another important matter, and that went on all the time that Samuel was living, this element of judgment, and it is constantly needed among us. And so Samuel went round in a circuit. In one sense we must always have an ear for what the Lord is saying, and what the Spirit is saying, to the assemblies; but then in addition to that there is the need to go over what is fundamental. Samuel went round in a circuit every year, as though he went over the ground, over and over again because of the need of it. We have young ones coming on all the time, and there is the need to go over what is fundamental, over and over again.

RS Like in Paul’s time, he would go back over the ground that he had covered already to confirm the brethren and to see how they had got on?

AJG Well, quite. You do not go over it again in a dry way. I mean, if the Spirit is recognised there is always freshness. But the ground has got to be covered, so that Samuel covered this ground from year to year in circuit, Bethel, Gilgal, Mizpah and then Ramah. He judged Israel in all those places.

LAC What have you in mind in connection with each?

AJG I suppose it means that whatever feature of the truth each place represents that would be what Samuel brought to bear upon people when he judged in those places. That is to say, if he judged in Bethel, he would remind the saints, I am applying it now to ourselves, that we are the house of God, that God is dwelling in us by the Spirit all the time, not simply when we are together but all the time. And therefore what kind of behaviour befits those in whom God is dwelling. All these things have a moral bearing upon us. That, I think, is the idea.

CB And to form a judgment as to what kind of truth each locality needs for the moment?

AJG Yes, quite so.

AKH Would the ministering before Jehovah and growing before Jehovah, and walking before Jehovah, be involved in the truth of what you have said about Bethel?

AJG I think Bethel stresses that God is dwelling, dwelling in His house, and therefore what kind of behaviour is suitable to those amongst whom God is dwelling. After all, God has a right to have his house according to His own taste. Each of us who has a house likes to have our house according to our tastes, and God has a right to have His house according to His taste, and therefore we have got to consider as to what God’s tastes are, what He loves, and what He dislikes, because we are His house. But then His eye is also upon us and that is really the thought of Mizpah, because Mizpah is a watchtower, but then one of the first references to Mizpah, if not the first, is in Genesis 31 where it says, “Therefore was the name of it called Galeed - and Mizpah; for he said, Let Jehovah watch between me and thee, when we shall be hidden one from another: if thou shouldest afflict my daughters, or if thou shouldest take wives besides my daughters - no man is with us; see, God is witness...” That is, Mizpah brings out the thought that when no one is with us, God is seeing. That is the idea of Mizpah, when the brethren are not with us do not let us forget that God is seeing.

RS Would not that bring back then what you were stressing before, the fear of God all the time, a sense that God’s eye is always on us?

AJG Quite so.

MSS I notice that that was the point to which Samuel recovered the people, the gathering point in chapter 7 verse 6, He gathered them to Mizpah, bringing in, you would say, the fear of God as a basis for recovery?

AJG Yes. And then Gilgal, of course, is the place where the flesh has been cut off, the cross of Christ, and we are to be in accord with that. And then Ramah, of course, is his own house, and it was an elevated place, I understand, which means that it is a question of our maintaining our own links with God, his house was there and his altar was there.

AT Would you say the altar was the recognition of God’s rights?

AJG Yes, it refers to our approach to God individually, I think. So that Samuel judging at Ramah, he would say to anyone who brought any matter before him, or any matter that was not quite right that came before his notice, “Yes, but have you been maintaining your own personal links with God or have you allowed that to drop?” He would very likely say, “If you had been maintaining your own personal links with God, it would never have happened.” That is how he would judge at Ramah.

HOE It is a word to us at a time like this, is it not? With plenty of meetings and gatherings together, is it a question of whether we are going on with the Lord individually?

AJG Quite so.

CEH And daily too. There are two references here to days, in verse 13 it says, all the days of Samuel, and verse 15 again, would that emphasize it?

AJG “All the days of his life” - yes, quite so.

AT Would you say that each believer should have an altar in his house?

AJG Yes, every believer should have an altar in his home. It has often been remarked that Abraham, who is the father of us all, and is thus the pattern of believers, had an altar and a tent. That is, he had his own links with God and he maintained pilgrim character.

RS It would appear that the growth is apparent yearly but the conditions daily in the fear of God?

AJG That is right, quite so.

LAC The apostle Paul covered a similar circuit in his ministry, did he not? He touches on the truth bearing on all of these places?

AJG Well, I think that is right. The house of God, of course, is specially brought in in 1 Timothy, and Gilgal in Romans and Colossians.

LAC His own hired lodging is mentioned as a place where things had, doubtless, been on an elevated platform.

AJG Quite so.

MSS Would you connect 1 Corinthians with Mizpah, the thought of loyalty to the fellowship?

AJG Yes, that is good. And of course, in Timothy he insists also on piety, which might link with Ramah.