THE ASSEMBLY AS A GARDEN
THE ASSEMBLY AS A GARDEN
AJG I think the Lord may help us to see that the garden in Eden is a type of the assembly in its present position of responsibility, that is, in its local aspect, as that in which God in the presence of evil, is meeting the challenge which came into the universe by the introduction of sin through the devil. At this point sin had not entered into the world, man had not become involved in it as yet, but the devil had sinned. The state of things in the second verse of chapter one, was evidently the work of an enemy, or the result of an enemy’s sin, because we are definitely told in Isaiah 45, that God did not create the earth waste. The condition that is described in verse 2 of chapter 1, is a condition which was not the condition in which God created it. So that it was either the work of an enemy or brought in as a result of sin having entered into the universe of God. I believe the garden is a type of the assembly in responsibility here, as the sphere in which God is meeting the challenge that that has constituted. So that He intends to secure on earth in the assembly a limited sphere in which there is what is for His pleasure, suggested in the trees that were pleasant to the sight and good for food; and there is, of course, the tree of life in the midst of the garden, that is Christ held in the affections of the saints as the One from whom life is derived, and then the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that is the great principle of discrimination between good and evil, and the choosing of the good, and the refusing of the evil. All that is what God is securing in the assembly at the present time. I know, of course, that Adam was told not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and that, of course, is part of the history of the first man; but as looking at it in its typical bearing I think what one has said is borne out by the fact that it says in verse 15, that “Jehovah Elohim took Man, and put him into the garden of Eden to till it and to guard it,” showing that there was the necessity for guarding, and God introduced that thought of guarding. I think the more we consider this thought of the garden that we shall see that what I have suggested is just. The garden is a limited sphere peculiarly for the pleasure of the one to whom it belongs; Eden itself means pleasure, that is, I take it, that the idea in Eden is the great principle that all that God has created was created for His pleasure. He has a right to secure pleasure for Himself in it. But then that has been invaded, as one said, but in the presence of the invasion of it God has secured a garden in Eden, that is, He will secure and maintain a limited sphere on the earth in the presence of evil, so that all that is according to His mind should be there for His pleasure. And He entrusts Man, that is, in the first place, Christ, you might say, but then ourselves, as formed after Christ, He entrusts us with the responsibility of guarding it. And that comes in before we get the other type, which comes in in the later part of the chapter, which refers not to the assembly in the position of responsibility here, but to the assembly according to the purpose of God. I think that is borne out by the fact that in the Acts of the Apostles, the apostle is brought to Corinth where the truth of the assembly in responsibility was developed before he went to Ephesus where the truth of the assembly in relation to divine counsels was developed. And I think one can see, that it is morally right that God should take up and solve the challenge that the introduction of evil into the universe has raised before He makes known what was in His eternal purpose. And the very exercises by which good is maintained and evil is refused, and what is for the pleasure of God is considered, those very exercises are some of the means by which God forms the woman, because she must be a moral being: that is an innocent helpmeet would not do for Christ, it must be one with holy sensibilities and intelligence, and these are developed, I believe, by Spirit’s work and as a result of all the exercises connected with the local position.
HLH Would you say a moral being is one possessed of the knowledge of good and evil?
AJG Yes, and having a perfect appreciation of good, and a holy abhorrence of evil.
CB You mean Jehovah “built” a woman out of his rib. Would that suggest the moral features built in?
AJG It suggests a process that is constructive, and the whole plan is in the mind of God before He commences. So that it views the assembly, not as having any past history, but as the subject of divine formation in moral and spiritual features.
LAC The man is said to be formed in verse 8.
AJG Yes, but the woman is built.
LAC I was wondering if the expression “form” conveys to the mind the thought of a pattern in the mind of God, or whether it would connect itself more with this thought which you have suggested, of that which is moral entering into the formation?
AJG Well, I think “form” suggests that it is divine workmanship. It is not the idea of creation, which is that God spoke and it was done, that He just brings something into existence out of nothing; but formation suggests a moulding by His hand, so to speak. But building is even more a constructive idea, having a plan in mind before you commence.
SW Would you say that formation stands in relation to what is the work of God individually in us,
while building is more the putting together of us in an assembly position?
AJG Well, there may be something in that, because building requires our being set together, we are “built together for an habitation of God in the Spirit,” it says.
SW Why do you get “God” in chapter one, and in chapter two “Jehovah Elohim”?
AJG I think Jehovah Elohim, as far as I understand, is an expression conveying God in relation to His creatures, that is, having certain affections and thoughts regarding them.
CB And what about the idea that Jehovah Elohim planted a garden in Eden?
AJG Well, planted shows that it was His own work. The Lord said, “Every plant which my heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up.” He planted a garden. I think it shows He bestowed particular care upon it. If you plant a garden it is a matter of considerable care.
CB You have design in it?
AJG Yes, design is in it.
RAE Would you say that sin entered into the universe in a rank in creation that was above man? Yet God is selecting this earth, and men as forming the assembly, to combat that evil?
AJG That is it, I think. He is pleased in His sovereignty to select man as the one in whom He will work out this great matter of good and evil; Wisdom’s delights were with the sons of men.
HLH In the selection of man He had Christ before Him? Adam is said to be a figure of Him who was to come?
AJG Quite so. And He had in His mind, of course, what was in His counsel, the church as the antitype of Eve. Then evil comes in, and becomes a means in God’s hand by which He works out what He has in His counsels. At the same time, sin having come in, it is morally right that He should meet the challenge which it constitutes and He is meeting it in the assembly.
HLH So all this is intended to enhance what the assembly really is in the thoughts of God?
AJG Yes, and I believe we shall get enlargement as we dwell on it, the link between the two.
HP What is the thought of the garden being planted eastward?
AJG Well, we get that in the first chapter of the first epistle to Corinthians. It says in an early verse of that chapter, “awaiting the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,” that is, we are awaiting the sun rising, the coming in of Christ. That is our outlook as in this world.
CB It says, He planted a garden eastward and there He put man whom He had formed.
AJG Eastward is that you are facing the rising sun.
MSS Have you in mind, that every tree would represent the saints?
AJG Yes, I think so, suggesting great variety in life and fruitfulness, and at the same time all for the pleasure of God.
MSS So that in this chapter as connected with the saints, we have the three figures in testimony which God can use, in formation, growth and building. They are developed, are they not, in connection with the teaching of the assembly?
AJG Yes, I think they are.
MSS 1st Corinthians you spoke of, speaking of God’s husbandry?
AJG Yes, “God’s husbandry, God’s building,” it says, and then in Ephesians we get “rooted and founded in love.” There are the two thoughts which are connected with husbandry and building.
AY Would the idea of satisfaction be seen also in the trees?
AJG Well, it says, they are pleasant to the sight and good for food. There would be, of course, satisfaction in that. And so you might rightly say that would be pleasant to the sight of God first, and good for food, too, I think we may say reverently, and then it is pleasant to our sight, and good for our food too we may appropriate one another in our affections appreciatively.
TB Verse 10 says, “a river went out of Eden to water the garden,” does that refer to the Spirit’s work in our day?
AJG It refers to the Spirit, I have no doubt - “Went out of Eden to water the garden.” That is unquestionably the fruitfulness and freshness that God finds in the assembly for His pleasure as a result of the Spirit. The Spirit constantly affords freshness. It is a river, it is not a pool, not something stagnant, it is something that is always living and moving. But then from there it is parted, so we have the thought of the Spirit giving life and character to the assembly, and then the testimony of divine grace in the Spirit going out from the assembly universally.
MSS Would this be similar to the way Paul addresses the saints in the opening verses of 1st Corinthians, or would it involve something more subjective? We know that was lacking at Corinth. Paul speaks to them of what they were in the sight of God.
AJG He says, “The assembly of God which is in Corinth to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints,” which is really viewing them abstractly, disregarding for the moment their actual state. So that, I suppose, viewed thus, we might say that would answer to this. And then again what he says at the end of the chapter, “Of him are ye in Christ Jesus.” Obviously it is only in Christ Jesus that God can work out His thought and take up the challenge, not in the first man. But the history of the first man is interwoven in all this to show that it cannot be in that man, that it is only in men in Christ Jesus that God’s thoughts can be realized.
MSS So that in any locality we should retain this thought in our minds?
AJG Yes, I am sure of that. If we regarded our local meeting as a garden for God’s pleasure, it would greatly elevate the position and give character to our exercises in relation to it, for it has got to be tilled and it has got to be guarded.
HLH It is first said that the river was to water the garden. Would that represent the Spirit coming into greater recognition as He is in our day?
AJG I believe so. So that all tends to greater freshness and greater fruitfulness.
LAC Would the man as presented here suggest the masculine side in responsibility, in the taking on of things which we know to be for the pleasure of God. But the fact that the tree is in the midst of the garden, in the centre of it, is a type of Christ in that way?
AJG Oh yes, indeed. And when we speak of the masculine side in responsibility, we need to make it clear that that includes brothers and sisters, that sisters have just the same responsibility as brothers in regard of the assembly. Of course, they have their own position in subjection and in silence as regards the actual meetings of the assembly, but they have just the same responsibility as the brothers in regard of conditions and the promotion of what is for the pleasure of God.
HP It is said in the 9th verse that “Jehovah Elohim made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight.” He made them grow.
AJG That is as Paul says, “I have planted, Apollos watered, but God has given the increase.” They were to recognise that, and those who serve have to recognise it.
MSS Would you say something about the thought of “tilling”? He tilled the garden.
AJG I suppose that has in mind the exercise necessary so that there should be the removal of every hindrance to growth and the right conditions for what is sown to spring up. It would involve our care for one another, and so on, I think.
CB Would you say the tree of life in the midst of the garden would suggest Christ, and all the thoughts that God would find pleasure in would find their centre in Christ?
AJG Yes, exactly, and we derive life from Christ. And evidently the tree of life was intended to convey the central idea, that God’s thought is that men should live, and live in the life of Christ too, as deriving from Him.
RAE These trees were meant to grow out of the ground, and then in verse 6, it says, “A mist went up from the earth and moistened the whole surface of the ground.” Do you think that would be a suggestion of the Spirit’s activities subjectively in new birth?
AJG I believe it is. I think the ground is that from which God can secure His fruits for Himself, and the moistening by the mist, as you say, would very likely refer to new birth, that is the initial activities of the Holy Spirit.
RAE That would be the bringing to pass of something entirely new which would form the basis of this combating of evil?
AJG Yes, quite so.
HP So that the four main streams would have a universal bearing?
AJG I think so. Four is usually universal, although it is rather interesting to notice that it speaks of three of them as surrounding a certain territory, and then of the fourth it simply says, “That is Euphrates.” There are three divisions of humanity, Shem and Ham and Japheth, and then Euphrates is the great barrier between East and West, the great dividing line. And I think the Spirit is that morally as the great power to hold in check the coming in of the flood of evil. And Euphrates too is the boundary of the land promised to Abraham.
LAC The one river seems to go right through the garden, and it only divides as it comes out. I was wondering whether the thought is one concentrated influence in one direction, the influence of the Spirit. And I was wondering too, if it would correspond, in a way, to the one street in the Holy City?
AJG I think that is right. We get the river again at the end of Revelation. It is one river, the Spirit. So the same Spirit all over the world produces the same features in the assembly in its local aspect. All the assemblies are watered by the same Spirit.
LAC In that way if the saints come under the influence of the Spirit there would be nothing conflicting?
AJG No, exactly.
CEH In chapter one references are made to God dividing, do you think that feature would be seen in the assembly now?
AJG It should. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is just that, so God called the light “Day” and the darkness He called “Night,” He would not admit of any mixture between light and darkness, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil stands out as the assertion of that principle that good is to be distinguished from evil. And that is essentially what is to mark the assembly at the present time.
MSS It says of the child in chapter 7 of Isaiah, That He might know to refuse the evil and choose the good. The saints would be morally of that order?
AJG Yes. Choosing the good and refusing the evil.
SW But was not that dependent on what he was to partake of, butter and honey?
AJG Well, that is very much like the food of the land. It is like heavenly food, milk and honey.
LAC Did not the thought of man “guarding” the garden imply that there was an enemy around, and that an attack might be looked for?
AJG Yes, I think so. I think it is very significant that that comes in here before there is any question of sin entering into the world. It is not till the next chapter that sin enters the world, and yet man is put in the garden to guard it, as though God knew well that the enemy was, so to speak, at hand, and the position would be attacked. And so Paul refers to it in his epistle to Corinthians, he says, “I have espoused you to one Man to present you a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear lest by any means, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craft, so your thoughts should be corrupted from simplicity as to the Christ.”
SW So would you say at this point there is the necessity for vigilance to mark the saints?
AJG That is exactly it, and to bear in mind that it is a garden, a garden for God. That is what He looks for in every place where the truth has a footing, that there should be this character of a garden for Himself.
SW It would seem that there had been some negligence in regard to the garden, and Satan takes advantage of that?
AJG Yes, exactly, he comes and finds the woman, apparently, away from the man.
AY So this principle of vigilance has to be maintained in our day? The enemy would seek to attack from every point. The vigilance of the saints in exercise would be to maintain every principle which stands connected with the assembly which the enemy would seek to attack.
AJG We are from time to time hearing of sorrowful things among the saints, which brings home to us that the enemy is very near. I believe the more the truth is developing and the more the Spirit is seeking to get the assembly as a bride for Christ, the more the enemy will attack. We need to be on the watch, first as to ourselves and then in regard to the saints.
CB That was what Paul said at Ephesus, Wherefore Watch. Do you think that the apostle as you mentioned just now, was a vessel raised up on these lines, as guarding the thought of the assembly from the attack of the enemy?
AJG Yes. But then it is not left to the apostle to do it, although of course, he did it, but then he places the responsibility on the Corinthians with regard to the evil that had appeared in their midst; he lays it on them that they must do it. He says, I have already judged, but they must do it.
CB Therefore that would refer to every local company?
AJG It would indeed.
LBl After sin came in and the way God dealt with it, would you say the garden is a type of the assembly and the way that evil must be dealt with, man is sent forth from the garden?
AJG Well, He put the cherubim, it says, with the flame of the flashing sword towards the east of the garden of Eden, to guard the way to the tree of life. And He says, “Man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he stretch out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.” So that God was guarding the way to the tree of life. It does not exactly say that He was guarding the garden there, but God was guarding the way to the tree of life, that He would not have that order of manhood perpetuated. He was I think, guarding His rights to shew mercy, too, that through redemption He would work out His thoughts in man, through redemption and new creation.
AY So that in that light now, would you say; God has come out in this character and is known in mercy in the mercy seat?
AJG Quite so.
LAC There is a scripture which speaks of having our senses exercised to discern good and evil. I was wondering if that is what God has in mind now in the thought of local assemblies representing the garden.
AJG Well, quite so, and how much discernment is needed by us, and that is another reason why the Spirit is to get an increasing place with us; not only to give us understanding of the mind of God, but to promote sensibilities and especially the spirit of discernment.
LAC Is the thought of tilling and guarding seen right through in the ways of God in administrative matters, the teacher and the prophet and so on, but there is the doorkeeper as well?
AJG Yes, quite so. I think under David there were as many doorkeepers as there were those who praised Jehovah (1 Chronicles 23: 5).
LAC And He is setting a hedge about it in connection with his husbandry?
AJG Yes.
TB Would the names of the streams have any special bearing?
AJG I cannot say much about it. It says most about the first of these four main streams, the first one is Pison, that is it which surrounds the whole land of Havilah, where the gold is, and the gold of that land is good. The bdellium and the onyx stone are there, so that it stresses that there is a section of the earth where the treasure is, and Mr. Taylor has referred to that; that while the going out of the gospel is universal, yet in the ways of God, as things have developed, the treasure, that is to say, that which has produced an answer to the truth of the assembly, has been more or less limited to a certain section of the earth, that is the Western world, and what has grown out of it. So that while at the outset the apostles were told to go out into all the world, to preach the gospel to every creature, yet there came a point in Paul’s ministry where he thought to go in one direction and the Spirit forbade him, and then he thought to go in another direction and the Spirit of Jesus suffered him not, and then eventually he is guided in the western direction, as though it is a question of the servant finding, under divine guidance, where God has placed the treasure, those in whom He is really working in view of the assembly.
LAC And the Spirit of God is influencing all such movements and directions, as suggested here in this river?
AJG Exactly. The two other streams, it says, that which surrounds the whole land of Cush and that which flows forward toward Asshur. It just says that it goes in those directions, as though to maintain the truth that the testimony of divine grace flows out to all, at the same time it indicates that the real treasure is in one particular section of the earth.
LAC Would it be then that the first is suggestive to us of Japheth’s descendants, the second Ham, and the third Shem?
AJG I am not quite sure whether you can work that out exactly, because as far as I can see, in chapter 10 Havilah is Shem and Asshur which is Assyria, seems to come from both Ham and Shem, a mixed race. So I doubt whether it can be worked out in actual detail, but I believe that is the principle of how the matter stands.
MSS With regard to the thought of the treasure, is it not a similar thought in the parable in which the Lord speaks about the treasure being hid in a field? The man in the parable bought the field.
AJG Yes. There is the work of God there in souls, which is the treasure, and the whole field is bought in order to secure the treasure.
CLPE Does the treasure then not refer to the whole assembly but only what answers to it now?
AJG I would not say that. I think it refers to the whole assembly, but the point is in what part of the earth is the assembly, in fact, being secured? It is not being secured in Asia at the present time, except perhaps an odd individual here and there, but I mean so far as the general position is concerned, it is being secured in a certain section of the earth.
RAE So that if you found yourself in China you would be free to tell anyone you met that God was disposed towards them in the forgiveness of sins. But an intelligent servant of the Lord would not set out to labour there, would he?
AJG No, I think he would find that the Lord would not direct him there.
HP I was thinking of the wonderful position that man is placed in. It says that Jehovah took man and put him in the garden.
AJG That shows what a privileged position we are in. And it shows that every brother and sister ought to take up intelligently the exercises which relate to the assembly; at any rate in his own locality. To be watchful, having regard of his own soul, not to allow any entrance to Satan, and then to be caring for the saints, so that the enemy does not get in at all, and that right conditions are maintained through exercise, so that what the Lord gives in the way of ministry may be received and bear fruit.
MSS The land of Havilah is the only one that is described, does that suggest the paramount importance of the work of God? Really nothing else matters and nothing else should matter.
AJG And where the treasure is. Of course, other families will be brought to light in due course, and they will be the result of the work of God, but the treasure for the moment is where God is working in view of His supreme thought of the assembly. The treasure hid in the field is one of the parables of the kingdom of the heavens.
AY It was something that was of such great value that it says that He sold all that He had and bought the field, in order that He might secure the treasure.
AJG Yes, it has been pointed out that it says in that parable that He “sells all whatever he has,” as though to give it a present thought, and the present activities of Christ in the gospel are concerned with bringing to light the treasure in view of the assembly, and then in relation to the pearl of great price, it says He sold all whatever He had, putting it in the past, that He loved the assembly and has delivered Himself up for it, and now the present activities of Christ are concerned with bringing to light the treasure in view of the assembly.
SW Would you say the treasure is what is for God and the pearl more what is for Christ?
AJG The thought of treasure is to show that it is of great intrinsic value, it is the work of God in souls.
RAE Would it link on with what you are suggesting, to see that the last parable in Matthew 13 is a question of discriminating between good and evil?
AJG That is very good, because in the parable of the tares, the public position is that good and evil are being allowed to go on together and that God is not separating them, that is the position publicly. But then in the assembly He is separating them, and we are responsible to do it. The net brings all kinds of fish to land and they sit down and put the good in vessels and cast the worthless away. So that you have got that principle in the assembly, that is the answer to what Satan has introduced publicly of good and evil going on together.
AKH You referred earlier to the matter of appropriating one another. I do not believe we understand much about it, I would like you to open it up a little. It says, “Of every tree of the garden thou shalt freely eat.”
AJG One great thought in the assembly is love, and therefore it is a great thing to appreciate one another, and look at the work of God in one another, and not look at natural features unduly; but concentrate on the work of God in one another and then we shall find how lovable the saints are. And when we come together to break bread it is not necessary, as soon as we come into the room, to shut our eyes, and keep them shut. It is a good thing to see the saints come in one by one and rejoice as you see them, we are glad to see them and we miss any who are absent, but those present have all come to remember the Lord; and that gives them beauty in our eyes.
LAC In that way we would come into line with what is the Spirit’s own mind. The gold of that land is good, would that not be the Spirit’s way of mentioning, so to speak, His appreciation of what there is amongst the saints?
AJG Quite so.
CB The joy of seeing them come in is the idea of appropriation, is that it?
AJG Yes, I think so. Not only on that occasion, but generally the idea of appropriation is that in our affections we embrace one another, and appreciate the spiritual worth of one another.
LBl Would not what we have in the early Acts come in here? They had all things in common.
AJG Yes, it would, exactly. Because the more we concentrate on the work of God in one another the more we appreciate one another and are knit together.
LBl Not that things there were common, but there was mutual regard and love for one another.
AJG Exactly. We have not yet reached the second part of the chapter, but the type of the woman as builded from the rib taken out of the man has been kept a good deal more before us from time to time, than the view of the garden as a type of the assembly locally. Of course, this type of the woman is a very important one because it is a question now of the assembly according to divine counsel.
AY So that in Ephesians we get the apostle saying, This mystery is great, but I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly. Is that what we get here in type?
AJG Yes, and there is no question here of responsibility, it is a question of divine workmanship, what God is building, and all according to Christ, that is, there was nothing in the woman but what had come out of the man.
AY So that we can view the assembly now as according to the order of Christ, not having any past history in that sense?
AJG That is it, exactly. But then it is building, it is not creation in that sense, although of course, it is new creation from another point of view, but it is not creation in the sense of that God spoke and it was done, but it was builded, constructed, it is going on through the work of the ministry, and aided by the moral exercises involved in the maintaining of the garden, I believe.
AKH Is there a difference between viewing the assembly as being built in that way, and as having a past history?
AJG Oh, yes. Of course, the assembly as such, viewed in this light as that which is builded of God, has no past history, although the persons composing it have, and that necessarily, because the assembly is to be a vessel that has been formed in holy affections, intelligence and sensibilities, and hence it is composed of persons who have had a past history, and in the extrication from all that that past history involved, are instructed and built up in these features.
BB Would we view the assembly here as how the Queen of Sheba viewed things? She saw the wisdom of Solomon.
AJG Yes, she saw the wisdom of Solomon. It is a remarkable thing, that it is not only that she heard the wisdom of Solomon but she saw the wisdom of Solomon, and she saw it in what was there under his hand. And that, of course, is a type of the assembly. That is, she saw the house that he had built, that is, the assembly for Christ, and the food of his table, and the deportment of his servants and the order of service of his attendants and their apparel and his cupbearers, and then finally the ascent by which he went up to the house of Jehovah. So that it is really what anyone ought to see as they come in amongst us, especially on Lord’s Day morning, they ought to see what is for Christ, they ought to see things in perfect order, and the becoming deportment and apparel of those who take part, and then the ascent by which the Lord leads us to the Father. They ought to be able to see that. And if they do see it, it is the expression of the wisdom of Christ.
LAC Referring to the section from verses 18 to 20. Apparently your thought is linked with the first part of the chapter as connected with the man viewed as the saints in responsibility as placed in charge of the garden.
AJG I think there is no doubt that the process of building goes on partly by means of the exercises connected with the previous part of the chapter, that is the choosing of the good and the refusing of the evil, and so on, and the guarding and the tilling. All these I believe are the means that God uses for the building, because if we have got to learn good we learn it in Christ, and if we learn evil we learn it in the death of Christ, that is to say, we learn God’s judgment of it in the death of Christ, and so on. So that it is a question of Christ being formed in us by God’s work, but that work is promoted by means of these practical exercises, it seems to me.
LAC Do you view the man here in verses 19 and 20 as a type of Christ?
AJG Oh, yes, entirely.
HLH The question of good and evil then was really solved in the death of Christ, was it not, and in that same death this woman has been built.
AJG Quite so, and we learn everything there or else in Christ personally. We learn love in the death of Christ and in Christ personally, and as we were saying, we learn the judgment of evil there. So that everything is learned in Christ and in His death, and God works by that means in us, so that the Man in these verses 18 to 20, is of course Christ, and no one but Christ, because the woman is formed out of Him and brought to Him.
MSS I think it would help us if you would explain the difference between the woman being built from the man’s rib, bone of his bone, and what we have in Rebecca’s case, being of his family and kindred, both referring, as we know, to the assembly.
AJG I think being born of God underlies being kindred to Christ. My impression is that kinship also involves that we are of Christ’s own order by partaking of His Spirit. That is, we receive the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the heavenly Man, and that constitutes us, I think, of His order. But then this is a question more of formation.
CB It says of Eve, “And Jehovah Elohim... brought her to Man.” Would you say that is the work of God, and she is brought to the man as formed in features suitable to Him?
AJG Yes, quite so.
CB Then what about Ephesians 5, The washing of water by the word and presenting to Himself a glorious Church, that is the work, of Christ?
AJG Yes, quite so.
RW He says, This time. What would that suggest?
AJG Well, I suppose Adam looked round on the creatures and he saw that every male creature had its female, and he thought of himself, and said, I have no helpmate, or no companion my like, every other creature has and I have not, and his heart longed for a companion his like. And now as the woman is brought to him he says, This time. And so with the Lord, there is much under His hand to be brought out in resurrection, the different families that God has formed, all bearing some feature of divine glory; but none of them His like, none of them the fulness of Christ, but now the assembly is being brought into view and He can see His own fulness in it. That is what it will be in result, at any rate, when the work is complete, and He is entitled to look at the thing as complete. It will be His exact counterpart, so far as is possible in the creature, the counterpart for Christ as a Man.
MSS And to take that up, there must be moral features in the saints answering to what is seen in Christ Himself?
AJG Exactly. Not only certain features but every feature as seen in Christ as Man.
AKH Would the flesh be Christ characteristically while bone would be His order, more inward?
AJG Well, I am not sure that one is too defined in one’s mind as to it, but evidently the flesh would bring in the thought of what is seen in the way of beauty and so on, and fulness too.
HLH In the Psalms you get Him saying, “My bones were not hidden from thee when I was made in secret, curiously wrought in the lower parts of the earth,” and then He refers to His unformed substance. The thought of substance to fill it out, the framework of the bones.
AJG Yes. The woman is the glory of the man, it says in Corinthians. I think one can see that, that the assembly is to be the glory of Christ, the displaying of what Christ is in moral excellence and so on, in the beauty of it, the grace of it, and yet she is entirely of Him, so that she does not glory in herself, but she is entirely of Christ.
AY Have you anything to say in relation to this sleep in verse 21, “And Jehovah Elohim caused a deep sleep to fall upon Man; and he slept.”
AJG That no doubt refers to the death of Christ. The work of formation is going on at the present time; we know that Christ is not actually in death now. He is in glory, we all understand that, but at the same time the death of Christ becomes a great lever by which we are formed morally, as we learn love there; we learn righteousness and holiness there.
LAC You mean that there is a way of viewing the death of Christ entirely apart from its having any connection with sin and evil, but as laying the foundation for the building of God?
AJG Quite so. As I say, love is learned there, righteousness and holiness are learned there, and so on.
LAC I would be glad if you would say a little more about that. It is very instructive.
AJG We have just to go slowly and be taught by the Spirit. What I think one can see is that this type of the woman is entirely a question of divine formation, according to Christ, and I think it is a good thing to keep that in mind steadily. And then on the other hand, the one who is to be the fulness of Christ obviously must be formed in holy intelligence and affections and discernment and so on. And hence it is a question of the way these things are done, and the wisdom that God employs, and evil, as introduced into the universe by Satan, is just something that He uses. He is so great that He can use everything for the furtherance of what He had conceived in His counsels.
HAL We were having the other evening something about the fulness of God. Here we are speaking now of the fulness of Christ.
AJG The fulness of Christ as a Man. He is the Man of God’s purpose and pleasure, a divine Person become Man, in order that there might be a Man wholly great enough, personally and morally, to satisfy the heart of God. And then that Man is to be expanded, if one might use that expression, in His body, the assembly. Not that she has anything but what she has derived from Him, but the matter is expanded.
HAL So that when we look at Christ we say. What a Man; and when we look at the church we say, What a woman; She is the fulness of Him.
AJG Quite so.
MSS Do you think there is an allusion to this passage in the 20th John, where the Lord shewed unto them His side?
AJG It is usually thought so, and I think it is right.
RAE Is it not significant that when the Lamb’s wife is brought forward in the end of Revelation it refers to her there as having made herself ready, and her clothing being the righteous acts. The fitting to be the Lamb’s wife has been by the facing and the going through of these moral exercises.
AJG Well, quite so. In the 45th Psalm we get both thoughts brought in, it says, that her clothing is of wrought gold, which refers to the work of God,
and then also it speaks of her clothing being of embroidery, suggesting what she has done.
HAL Wrought gold means that something has been done with it?
AJG Gold usually refers to what is of God, but then it is wrought gold, suggesting that it is divine workmanship, what God has wrought. But embroidery is more what we have done.