CHRISTIAN PRIVILEGE

CHRISTIAN PRIVILEGE

John 20: 1 - 23

AJG It is clear that this chapter leads us to the full thought of Christian privilege indicated in the message which the Lord sent to the disciples by Mary, and I thought the Lord might help us to see the way that the truth has gradually been opened up, for that, I think, is what the chapter develops. The end of chapter 19 shows that there is a public position taken up in fidelity to the Lord, certain women standing by the cross of Jesus, and too, in Joseph and Nicodemus committed, you might say, to the fellowship of His death. So a public position is established in fidelity to Christ. But now in chapter 20 we have Mary Magdalene brought forward as a central figure, evidently possessing the feature of affection for Christ that is not satisfied with mere truth, however precious the truth, but is attached to Christ personally. And that is really what is to be developed in the assembly, and becomes the secret of entrance into the greatest privileges, because we enter into our greatest privileges with Christ, and in no other way. So the chapter starts with early morn while it is yet dark. That is, that there is an absence of light, but the light is gradually going to increase, and what is to be noted is that at the outset great attention is paid to the tomb, that is to the death of Christ, and as there is continual occupation with His death, the import of it and the glory to be apprehended in connection with it increases. But then there comes a point when the Person of Christ becomes, as it were, a necessity, to Mary Magdalene, and it is then that the whole truth is opened up. It is well that we should be established in fundamentals in regard of the death of Christ, so that we might be led on to an appreciation of who it is that has lain in death and what was in mind in His having lain there, and risen again. The stone taken away from the tomb was what Mary Magdalene saw as she arrived, which evidently meant that liberty was being given to look into the matter of the tomb. That is, the truth was going to be made clear as to all that might be apprehended as the fact of the Son of God having died is contemplated.

HN What is involved in the fundamentals you referred to?

AJG Well, we read that Mary goes to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and as a result they run to the tomb, and it says, “The two ran together, and the other disciple ran forward faster than Peter, and came first to the tomb, and stooping down he sees the linen cloths lying.” That was the first thing he saw, the first apprehension of the death of Christ - the linen cloths lying. I think that is a testimony to righteousness established. Linen is always that in scripture, and that is the first thing. So that if there is to be anything built up in the way of the service of God in our souls, we have first to see how God has come in in Christ to establish a basis in righteousness on which He can work out His thoughts. So the first thing he saw was the linen cloths lying, but it says, he did not go in.

AT Would you say there are features of energy seen here in both Mary and the disciples?

AJG Yes, I would think so, and that is another thing which comes out. We are told that these two disciples ran together but one ran faster than the other, and then on the other hand, the other when he did arrive, went in further than the one. So that it is just to indicate that we find that kind of thing in the assembly; that some seem to be able to embrace the truth more quickly than others, others may go into it more deeply, but we have to go on together, that is the great thing.

HN Would repentance and faith come in in regard to the fundamentals?

AJG That is our side of it, but this is not exactly presenting our side of it, I think, it is rather presenting what it is that God is setting before us in relation, first of all, to the death of Christ, and then to the Person of Christ. He has great things in mind to bring us into, but He works, you might say, systematically and lays a firm foundation first.

HLH So that the affection that is characteristic of Mary is attached also to the disciples, underlying all these activities there is affection seen too?

AJG I have no doubt there is, but the Spirit of God seems to make so much of Mary at first in contrast to the disciples, they are content with a certain measure of light and go to their own homes, but Mary is not content with anything short of the Lord personally. So that she seems to be the one who is taken up to set out the truth in its fulness.

VB Simon Peter having gone in saw more than the other disciple. Would you tell us what is involved in the handkerchief not lying with the linen cloths but in a separate place by itself? What he saw in addition to what the other disciple saw.

AJG I think the chapter is intended to help us to patiently go into things more deeply. Of course, that involves prayer and seeking the Lord’s help and the Spirit’s help. But if we will go into things more deeply we shall find we shall see more. All that is intended to encourage us, I think, not just to take the fundamentals as a settled matter, but to see whether we cannot see more in them. So that it says, he “sees the linen cloths lying,” that is, he is confirmed in what John had seen, but he also sees the handkerchief which was upon His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded up in a distinct place by itself. So that the handkerchief which was about His head is what now arrests his attention, and that is calling his attention to the glory of the Person. The head is the glory of the Person, who it is that lay in death. If the Son of God entered into death He must rise out of it, it was not possible that He should be holden of it. So we are to be impressed with the greatness of who went into death, because God’s intention was to establish His thoughts beyond death.

RAE Has not this patient unfolding of the truth that you have referred to, marked the recovery of it during the last number of years, beginning, as it were, while it was still dark, and is that not also a feature of things in our souls; that we are hazy but then we have to go through every feature of it patiently?

AJG That is it, I think. The chapter is most instructive to my mind, from that standpoint. It started at early morn, that is to say, the day is in front of us, but it is while it is yet dark, but things are going to get clearer as we go on, if we go on patiently and in exercise. Particularly if we are like Mary, not like the disciples, content with a certain amount and then go to our own homes.

MSS Would the word as to the Spirit guiding us into all the truth underlie the chapter?

AJG Well, it would, and the way the Lord has brought forward the Spirit and His service to us in these last days, is particularly encouraging and impressive, because it would develop holiness with us and will promote freshness as He is increasingly recognised, and it will give us encouragement that no less than God Himself, in the Person of the Spirit, is here to lead the saints into all His thoughts. So that if we are amenable, capable of being led, we will be led into all that God has in His mind for the saints.

AAT But your point is that some of us catch on to the truth faster than others? I mean John in comparison with Peter?

AJG Yes, and on the other hand Peter went into things more deeply than John, so that there is a certain tempering of things, and John will get the benefit of Peter and Peter will get the benefit of John.

AY Speaking of Mary, would you say that there is a certain amount of spiritual sensitiveness that marks Mary in her waiting, so that as she waits she gets at once a sight of the Lord Himself, and then gets a further unfolding of the truth in having the message to take to the disciples?

AJG Yes, I would. It is not only spiritual sensitiveness but it is the affection which really is proper to the assembly, nothing less than the Person of Christ will satisfy her. I do not think that that is exactly characteristic of any other family, but it is distinctive of the assembly, that the assembly must have Christ personally, and whatever blessing she enters into she enters into with Him.

WSW The Lord Jesus became the necessity of Mary’s heart?

AJG Yes.

AAT You are emphasising affection. Would you distinguish between intelligence and affection?

AJG Both are necessary, but the underlying state is affection. Affection will become intelligent provided there is a following up of things, but sometimes we are inclined to rest and say, Well, I love the Lord, and leave it at that. But then that is not good enough, affection is to be followed up with intelligence.

AAT I was thinking of Mary of Bethany, she is not actually at the tomb and yet I suppose she is quite intelligent, she sat at the feet of Jesus.

AJG I have no doubt she was, but I think Mary Magdalene as having this outstanding affection for Christ - it may have been up to a point, unintelligent at first - is taken up by the Spirit of God as representing the element that is proper to the assembly and to which light is given.

AAT So she says, “Rabboni!”?

AJG Yes.

LAC I notice here that the disciples go to their own homes after the light has been received at first in varied measures. I was wondering whether you had in mind to suggest, that perhaps, after getting the light as we have recently done, for instance, in relation to the matter of the Spirit, we may still come short of what the Lord had in mind in bringing the Spirit so distinctly before us; and although the light may become clear to us, we may turn aside to our homes and what that suggests and lose the full gain of what the Lord might have in mind.

AJG Quite so. And therefore while having the light of things it does not produce any result. There is no result for God as long as these two disciples Simon Peter and John remained in their homes.

HLH But before that it says, He saw and believed.

AJG Yes. It says, “Then entered in therefore the other disciple also who came first to the tomb, and he saw and believed; for they had not yet known the scripture, that he must rise from among the dead” (verses 8 and 9). So that he had got a certain distance, he is fully assured now as to the resurrection of Christ. But then why go to his own home? Why not find out where the Lord was?

RAE Would there be any suggestion in that of a soul coming into the good of justification by faith and stopping there?

AJG It might be, but I would think it was more than that, because the reference to the napkin which was about His head, I believe, is to stress the head, involving the glory of His Person. That is, it is not only the work of Christ, but who it is that has entered into death, and it means that He must rise from the dead. It was not possible that He should be holden of it. Therefore it is like the ark going into Jordan, and making a way through death.

HLH You mean, rightly believing the scriptures that He must rise from among the dead would necessarily involve a state of soul that would be seeking where He was.

AJG Yes, I think that is what Mary Magdalene represents.

CB Would you say that the linen cloths lying and the handkerchief lying in a distinct place by itself, would show the superiority of the Lord in the conditions of death?

AJG Yes, I think so. I think it involves that if such an One as the Son of God entered into death He must of necessity rise again, it was not possible that He should be holden of it, Peter says. And that means that resurrection has come to pass, and come to pass according to God’s thoughts.

AAT Romans says that He was raised by the glory of the Father, where does that fit in?

AJG Well, resurrection is presented in two ways. On the one hand it is presented as God’s act in raising Christ from among the dead, as you say, by the glory of the Father, which I suppose, is love active in power; but then it is also presented as Christ’s own act, that He rose from the dead. He says, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up. So that it is a question of the light in which it is presented. God’s expression of appreciation of Christ in raising Him from among the dead, and on the other hand the personal inherent power of Christ in rising from the dead. It is two presentations of the same truth.

EMe So you would say that Mary had yet to learn that, because she said, They have taken away my Lord, and then, “If thou hast borne him hence.”

AJG Yes, quite so. She evidently had not yet come to it in her soul that He was really risen, though Peter and John had, or John at any rate.

CB In this gospel it says, “Having bowed his head, he delivered up his spirit.” It is presented as His own act.

AJG He delivered up his spirit, quite so. So He says, “Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again”; taking it again was in view when He laid down His life. It is a question of opening up beyond death the sphere of life, and the order of life, which is in God’s purpose for men.

RS When His resurrection is brought forward in scripture on the line of its being His own act, is not that the line on which there is the apprehension of who He is in the truth of His Person?

AJG Yes, I think so.

HEB And the glory that distinguishes Him as such, would you say, in contrast to the Father having raised Him which shows the Father’s glory?

AJG Yes, exactly. It was not possible that He should be holden of it, Peter says in Acts 2.

HEB I was wondering if what He said to John in Revelation is in agreement with what you are suggesting here. He spoke of, “The first and the last, and the living One; and I became dead, and behold, I am living to the ages of ages,” which doubtless stresses His glory again, His own act.

AJG Yes, quite so. He became dead; it is what He did Himself.

MSS Is there any significance in the fact that the tomb here is presented as in a garden at the end of the previous chapter? Would it suggest that the assembly is in view in all this?

AJG I think that is right. The garden at the end of the previous chapter is the end of the instruction as to the public position. The latter part of the nineteenth chapter of John is the public position, first standing by the cross, and then committed to the fellowship of His death, and then there is a garden. That is, that in the place where Jesus is crucified, which the world is, there is a place that is peculiarly for His pleasure, that is the assembly as a garden, and His Name is cherished there. His body was placed there. We have not His body but we have His Name.

SH Would you say that affection would keep Mary in this waiting attitude in stooping down and looking in at the sepulchre?

AJG Yes, she was as yet unintelligent. I think that is clear. But at the same time there was affection there that was more pronounced than what was seen in Simon Peter and John.

SH So that looking in, it says she saw two angels.

AJG Quite so. But the Lord calls her “woman.” That is, He is taking account of the feminine side of things which she represents, affection. It is love for Himself that He delights in in the assembly and He calls her “woman”.

LAC Is it not so that the Holy Spirit is sovereign in the bringing forward of any truth as light in His own time? I was wondering whether the removal of the stone here which has no connection exactly with the disciples or with Mary, might not suggest what has taken place in our own time, in recent years and months, when, so to speak, there has been the removal of a stone in relation to the types of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament particularly; this has opened up the way for things to be seen more clearly; all is under the Spirit’s hand?

AJG Well, that is the principle of it. But it is a question of the interpretation of the passage. I should regard the taking away of the stone as that which happened 120 years ago, when the Spirit began to open up the truth in an orderly way, and it has gone on consistently ever since. And it has in mind the full thought of the assembly according to God’s mind.

HLH The angels are mentioned here. What part do they have in this gradual unfolding? What do these particular angels represent?

AJG They were there to mark out certain things. She sees two angels in white sitting. You sometimes get angels brought in to represent what God intends the saints to come to, before they are ready for it, like in the second of Luke, there was a multitude of the heavenly host praising God. The point was that the assembly was to come to that, a great vessel of praise God-ward. But for the moment, until the men were ready for it, the angels would set out the idea. And here there were two angels sitting in white, one at the head and one at the feet where the body of Jesus had lain. So that now it is not only the head drawn attention to, but also the feet, that is, movement in correspondence with the head. So that now it is not only the personal glory of Christ that is in view, but it is a question of Christ as Head in relation to a vessel that can move in correspondence to Him.

HOE And so an angel appears to Mary before the incarnation and tells her about it. Does that run right through in scripture as the service of angels as forerunning, as it were?

AJG They are often used up to Pentecost in conveying light, conveying the mind of God, but my impression is, that now that the Spirit is here, angels do not serve so much in that way, they serve in a more providential way.

JM In the ninth verse, the disciples had not the light of resurrection in their souls?

AJG No, but I think that ninth verse is stressing that they could have had, because the scripture was there. It says, “They had not yet known the scripture that he must rise from among the dead.” But then, why did they not know the scripture?

MSS It would seem from this that it is possible to have a considerable measure of appreciation of the greatness of Christ, and yet not to have any sense really of the side of response in the assembly to Him?

AJG Quite so. And it is possible to have the light in our souls of Christ and the assembly, the divine thought regarding the assembly, and yet not to touch it in power, for if we are to touch it in power it is a question of affection for Christ, the Lord Himself being apprehended personally. And that is why the Supper has such an important place as the doorway into assembly privilege; because the affections of the saints are freshly quickened by the Supper and that affords opportunity or ground for the Lord to come in and present Himself, as He did to Mary Magdalene.

HLH The expression “My Lord!” on the part of Mary is an indication of the affection for Him that was there? It seems at that point that the Lord, as it were, draws near.

AJG Quite so.

RS Would you say something of the question He asked her, why she wept?

AJG Well, the angel first says, Woman, why dost thou weep? And then the Lord says, Woman, why dost thou weep. Whom seekest thou? Clearly, in the light of the resurrection of Christ, it is not a time for weeping, but the Lord knew what was in Mary’s heart so that He adds, Whom seekest thou?

AT Would we learn something from John’s name not being mentioned here?

AJG I do not think he mentions his name once all through the gospel. In the twenty-first chapter he mentions the sons of Zebedee, but otherwise, I think, when he speaks of himself it is always the “disciple whom Jesus loved.”

JHH Is it not remarkable that with every fresh unfolding of the truth, what has previously come to light is mentioned. We get first of all the linen cloths and then the handkerchief lying, not with the linen cloths, and so on, calling attention to His head, and then we get His head and His feet, as though to suggest that we should be maintained in balance. Are we not in danger, when any fresh light is presented to us, of being occupied with it to a very large extent whereas the Lord would have us to hold things in balance. We would not, for instance, overlook righteousness to be engaged with the Person of Christ, nor would we overlook His Person to be engaged with His feet, in that way.

AJG I think that is right, that the truth is cumulative in that way and has to be carried forward in our souls. Of course, when any fresh feature of the truth is being brought forward by the Spirit it is quite understandable if for the moment He stresses that and almost fixes our attention on that, to the exclusion of other features for the moment, until the brethren have really taken it up. But once that has come about then it has got to be fitted in to the whole circle of truth.

HOE You were speaking of the Lord saying, Whom seekest thou? Is it not so that He likes us to declare ourselves, give expression to what is in our hearts? Not merely to say, The Lord knows my heart, He likes us to express it.

AJG I am sure of that. We get many instances of that, I think, in scripture. Like when He says to the disciples, But who say ye that I am? The Lord knew what was in their hearts but He wanted to bring it out.

AAT I think you said that affection opened up the way for the Lord to move, and you connected it with the Supper. In giving thanks for the emblems our hearts and affections are moved towards the Lord, so that it would open up a way for Him to move?

AJG That, I understand, is the whole point,

that the Lord has given us the Supper, as He says, In remembrance of Me. So that the Supper, the breaking of the bread particularly and then the cup, are intended to recall the Lord to our hearts. And it is as the affections of the saints are quickened by that presentation that there are conditions there that He will answer by coming in. So that the conditions really are seen in Mary; she says, They have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid Him. Well, that was an evidence of the love that was there in her heart. And then the Lord says, Woman, why dost thou weep, whom seekest thou? And she says, If thou hast borne Him hence tell me where thou hast laid Him and I will take Him away. That is all very unintelligent, you might say, but it was an evidence of unmistakable affection.

CB And the Lord says, Why dost thou weep? The affection seen in Mary was not so much in line with the apprehension of the truth?

AJG Quite so, but in a sense, I think we have to carry the disciples and Mary forward together. Mary is the important feature, but then as a background to Mary there would be intelligence in a measure in Peter and John.

AAT Is it not strange that there is nothing said about the Supper in the chapter and yet the conditions are there?

AJG Quite so.

SC The Lord is not responsible for their unintelligence, the disciples are to be blamed for it.

AJG Yes, the Lord had often spoken to the disciples about His rising again, and Mary of Bethany, I think, had apprehended it. She had seen the power of resurrection in her brother Lazarus being raised. So that I have no doubt that Mary of Bethany was in peace in her own soul, confident that the Lord would rise again, but the disciples in general were not, and as you say, it was really their own fault that they were not. But then how defective we are very often in the light of the scriptures and of what has been ministered.

WH It is not a matter of light here, but of state, because He had often said that on the third day He would rise from the dead.

AJG Quite so.

WT Great care was taken of the napkin that was about His head. It says, it was wrapped and put in a place by itself. I suppose that would show that everything was done in order; there was no hurry?

AJG Yes, I suppose the fact that it was folded and put in a distinct place by itself might show completeness of victory, that there was no disorder and no suggestion of any struggle or anything of that sort, but particularly calling attention to the head, the glory of the Person.

HLH Mary refers to the Lord as “My Lord,” and then she addresses Him as, “Rabboni,” Teacher! Would those two ways of addressing Him show the state that would be ready to receive fresh disclosures, My Lord! and My Teacher!

AJG You mean, My Lord! involves subjection, but also affection, and then Teacher would recognise the need of teaching, and that He was the One who could give it?

HLH Yes, the Lord had said, “If I, therefore, the Lord and the Teacher, have washed your feet.” There was an obligation then upon those who recognised Him in that way, was it not?

AJG Quite so, and the word Rabboni in itself involves affection, because it is more than Rabbi, it is “Rabboni” - it is the same meaning as Rabbi in the sense that it means “Teacher” but it really means “My own Teacher.” There is a touch of affection about it.

HLH It means that she looks to no other for teaching?

AJG Yes.

AAT As regards the portion where Christ is in the midst and where He is made known, I wondered if you wanted to arrive at this this afternoon so that we could get help?

AJG Quite so. That is what we are hoping to arrive at. It is a question of the way the truth of the full heavenly privilege of the assembly is arrived at, and not only the truth but the experience of it. Thank God we know something of it, but it is well to go over this chapter because it indicates the orderly way in which the truth has been recovered and I think it indicates things that should be established in our own souls.

RS And would you say something about “Touch me not!”

AJG That is an important matter, because, I think, Mary, in saying Rabboni! My own Teacher! shows that now that she realised that it was really the Lord before her she wanted to have Him back again in the way that she had known Him in the days of His flesh, in what He was to her: but the Lord as much as says, No, it is now a question of your learning to take your place in what the assembly is to Me, rather than what I am to you personally. Not that we ever think what the Lord is to us personally but there are greater things.

EMs Why does He say, My Father and your Father, My God and your God? I mean, why does He say “Father” first?

AJG Because, I think, that is the order in which we learn things. That is, we are brought to the knowledge of Christ’s Father as our Father with Him. We are brought into a relationship of affection learned in Christ, but then as established in that what we learn is that the One who is thus known as Father - Christ’s Father and our Father - is God, Christ’s God and our God. He is our God but He is Christ’s God. That is to say, He has in Christ before Him Man of the order which is according to His desire in regard of man.

RS Do we not learn Christ in the same way? Learn Him first as “My Saviour” and then later on we learn that He is God. Is it not the same principle?

AJG You mean we learn Him as our Saviour and then we learn that the One who is our Saviour is no less than God Himself?

RS Yes.

AJG Yes, quite so. But I think the way we enter into assembly privilege is by apprehending what is involved in the Father’s Name first, and then we apprehend that the One thus known is no less than God, and that He is Christ’s God too.

EMe Is that why the question was asked; Show us the Father? That the Lord was stressing that even at that early moment?

AJG Yes, quite so. I think the name of “Father” is the way that God in grace has adapted Himself to the creature, so that God might come out in revelation according to what He is in His nature, in a way that would attract and hold the affections of the creature.

HLH The message to the brethren was that, “I ascend to my Father, and your Father, and to my God and your God,” but the word to Mary was, “Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father.” God is not mentioned in His word to Mary.

AJG “I have not yet ascended to my Father.” The Lord constantly referred to God as His Father, and so in stating that to Mary I think that is all He would say. But then in the opening up of the truth, in the whole scope of it, which the message to the brethren is intended to convey, He would bring in the fulness of it.

HLH Yes, I was wondering whether the injunction not to touch Him, was because of the vast range of things connected with the Father.

AJG Quite so.

CB What difference would there be between that presentation in John and what Paul says, Blessed be the God and Father? The same relationship but he puts God first.

AJG Yes, well, that seems to be normal, as far as I can see. “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,” but then on the line of our entering into our privilege we learn the gain of the Father’s Name first.

LBr Because “Father” is the revelation.

AJG Quite so, and it establishes us in grace and in the sense of the relationship of love, and then in that the light is unfolded to us, that the One who has thus come out is God, and not only so, but He is Christ’s God. That is to say, God with an order of Man before Him of which Christ is the beginning and the Pattern.

JHH We know something through grace of what it is to be brought to the Father and to enjoy His love and so on, the relationships with Him, are you suggesting that there is a point beyond that in the service of God where we actually reach God?

AJG Well, yes, quite so. It is not a different Person but it is the sense in the soul that the One thus known is God, and that we are His creatures, that He loves to have man before Him, but it is Man in the order of manhood which is set out in Christ. So that it is a wonderfully exalted thought. It is not just God coming out in grace to poor sinners, but it is God bringing in an order of manhood in Christ great enough to afford pleasure to Him.

HLH So He calls the disciples “My brethren.”

AJG Yes, exactly.

RS And there is the declaration of the Father’s Name. The Lord said, I have declared unto them thy Name and will declare it.

AJG Quite so. And so it says in Hebrews, “I will declare thy Name to my brethren, in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises.” That is, the Lord has brethren, those who are worthy of Him, of whom He is not ashamed, and to such a company He will declare the Father’s Name. But then He has the assembly, the same persons, but a dignified company which can move as one under His influence; and He has that available for response to God.

RAE Is that why we have the references to the woman earlier in the chapter before we have this message about the Father? I wondered if it was necessary to have the assembly first as that vessel which is under the influence of Christ, in order that there may be this service of God?

AJG Exactly. It is really the answer to the second of Genesis, the woman made for the man. So the Lord says, Woman! And there it is in Mary Magdalene, not simply in her personally, but what she represents is the basic idea of the assembly. That is, something which has incorruptible affection for Christ and is not satisfied with anything short of Christ personally.

HAL Is that why He showed them His hands and His side? She was taken out of the man.

AJG Yes, quite so. I think the hands would refer perhaps to the way He has served us in love, and then the side would be an allusion, doubtless, to the second of Genesis. He lay in death in order that there might be this wonderful woman, the assembly, brought to light as a result of His death.

AT Referring to Mary touching Him, the Lord was teaching her what she should be to Him. Not only what He was to her but what she should be to Him?

AJG What she should be to Him as merging with the brethren. It is not a question now of what each of us is individually to the Lord, although there is that side of things, but it is a question now of merging with the brethren - “Go to my brethren,” He says, “and say unto them.” She was to merge with the brethren, and to understand what the brethren and the assembly are to the heart of Christ.

MSS This is not the knowledge of the Father individually, you would say, but the full light of assembly privilege?

AJG Yes.

LAC Should we cover the thought of the bride and of the brethren after the Supper?

AJG Well, in our souls. It may or may not come out in actual expression, I mean, the terms may or may not be used. It is not a question of feeling bound to use the terms, as long as the thing is there substantially in the souls of the brethren. As has often been pointed out, John in his gospel and first two epistles does not mention the assembly at all, and yet certainly in his gospel he has the assembly in mind, he has the thing there vitally, but he does not mention the term. So that it is not essential that the actual terms should necessarily be used every time, as long as the thing is there in the souls of the brethren.

HLH The day begins with early morning while it was still dark, and then an evening is mentioned after all this?

AJG I suppose it means the end of the day. That is, it is a question of a day, one day, a complete period, in which the whole truth is arrived at. After it had been lost, when there was a period of darkness, the whole truth is arrived at.

EMs Is it not reversed in Genesis, there you get the evening and the morning?

AJG Well, the chapter begins with the morning while it was yet dark. That is to say, the day is beginning to open but there is still great darkness, but then as the chapter proceeds the light increases until you get the evening which is simply that you have now come to the end of the day, to the fulness of things, it is not the thought there of the light diminishing.

HLH Things will go on to the end, there is a guarantee for that?

AJG Quite so.

VB It says here, “Where the disciples were.” Would that suggest the state of soul that they were in at the time?

AJG I think it has been well said that it is the disciples that are the attraction to Christ, the place, or the room, is not the attraction. A cathedral is no attraction to Christ however grand it might be; it is a question of where the disciples are, that is where the Lord will come, if we are truly disciples.

SW Would you tell us why in Genesis you get evening first?

AJG Evening and the morning? I think that is because of the fact that sin had come into God’s universe, therefore what is presented in scripture is the way that God is going to bring His thoughts out notwithstanding the background of the evil. So it starts with evening and goes on to morning.

AY I was wondering if we see here in verse 19 the character of the day that has come in. “When therefore it was evening on that day, which was the first day of the week.” It would give the character to the incoming of something new in the resurrection of Christ.

AJG Yes, I think so. So that we get eternity spoken of as “the day of God,” and also we read, “There shall be no night there,” so the final thought is day.

HLH And what transpires after this would all suggest the joy connected with the day?

AJG Quite so. And it is the end of the day, not in the sense that the light is diminishing but simply that you have come now to the fulness of the day.

RAE Would you say that down to verse 18 is largely a question of the light of the position, but now from verse 19 onward the thing is to be worked out and the great central feature is the Lord Jesus in the midst?

AJG That is it. All the light is given us, but then in order that the thing might be realised, it is essential that the Lord Himself should come in. And we get nowhere if we do not have the Supper. It is a question of affections being quickened afresh, and of our not being satisfied with anything short of the Lord Himself.

JS You mean that there is a point reached so that the Lord can come in then in the midst?

AJG Yes, the disciples were there.

AY Is there anything for us to learn in His showing them His hands and His side? Causing them to rejoice?

AJG I think the hands would refer to the way love has served, and after all we need that every time, I think. In some way or other we need that, because we are still here in a responsible position and in mixed conditions too, conscious of the flesh in us, and that kind of thing; therefore we need to be freshly reminded of the way love has served. That is, He has been into death for us, in order that all that attached to us might be forever set aside, and the Spirit makes that good. The Lord would remind us of the way His love has served. It is just a question of the way love has served us, so that Christ Himself should be before us, and then we are free to take account of the side of divine purpose, and of the way He entered into death in order that the assembly might be brought to light as of Himself.

LBr That would enable us to abstract ourselves then from conditions that we are in?

AJG Exactly. We are entitled to do that, and have power to do it in the Spirit.

HLH The disciples rejoiced having seen the Lord. Is that the answer to the longing that was with Mary, “They have taken away my Lord and I know not where they have laid him”?

AJG Yes, quite so. It is remarkable that the passage, you might almost say, breaks off there, that is to say, it does not go any further, it does not give us a pattern of the service of God, it just leads us up to the point from which all can proceed. If the Lord is there and love for Him in the assembly, then the service of God can proceed, but there is no pattern given us of it.

HEB You get that in principle in connection with Jesse sending for David? Samuel said, We will not sit at table till he come hither, and then the Spirit of God dilates on his qualities?

AJG Yes, quite so, and then we get suggestions of it in, for instance, what the Queen of Sheba saw, “the house that he had built,” that would be the assembly for Christ, “and the food of his table, and the deportment of his servants, and the order of service of his attendants, and their apparel, and his cupbearers,” and finally “his ascent by which he went up to the house of Jehovah.” So that there was the thought of a movement upward, but there is no need of a pattern in the scripture by which to fill out the service of God; that is left to the Spirit and Christ’s own personal impulse.

RS Therefore we would not have any ready-made service, it is simply a question of giving Christ His place?

AJG Quite so.

JHH So that as you mentioned just now, we need not have the terms so long as the actual thing is there. Is it not better to have the thing substantially and not have the terms, than to have the terms without the substance in power?

AJG Oh, well, that is so. There is nothing wrong about the terms, but I think John’s ministry illustrates that. That while his gospel is written with the assembly in view he never once mentions the assembly in terms.

CB Is it the mind of the Lord that we should enter into the truth of the assembly as given us in John without the terms that are being used around us?

AJG There is nothing wrong about using the terms, the great thing is that the truth is there substantially.

CB So we come together for the Supper with a measure of expectation too?

AJG Yes, indeed. And the Lord intends that it should bring about conditions in the saints that He would be only too glad to respond to by coming in.

RAE There is a reference in Psalm 104 to bread which strengthens man’s heart and wine which makes it glad. Do you think that there would be a suggestion in that of the Supper, and the effect that it has to strengthen us in the love of Christ and stimulate our affections?

AJG I think that would be right. One great thought connected with the cup is that we are stimulated by it in a spiritual sense.

RAE That really opens the door to all this that we are having?

AJG Yes, quite so.

LAC What would you say as to the expression that we find in verse 28, “Thomas answered and said to Him, my Lord and my God.” Is there anything that would correspond to that, the worship of Christ as God, that would come into the service?

AJG If the Spirit leads that way, it is in order.

LAC Is there not sometimes a point reached in which the Lord Jesus is worshipped, as He comes before us?

AJG Quite so, indeed. And the underlying reason why He is worshipped, is that He is God.

CB He breathed into them and they received the Holy Spirit. Would that be the state in keeping with the position?

AJG I think now the Spirit of God is turning to the thought of being here representatively for Him in administration. Because it is remarkable that it says, “The disciples rejoiced therefore having seen the Lord. Jesus said therefore again to them, Peace be to you, as the Father sent me forth I also send you.” It leads on to the thought of being sent forth. Not being conducted into the presence of the Father, that is dealt with, but now having enjoyed privilege we are to be sent forth, and immediately there is the thought brought in of administration, remitting sins or retaining them and so on. All is now to be handled in the spirit of Christ, in heavenly grace and trustworthiness.

CB And that is why we get remission first?

AJG Yes, exactly, but it is a very striking thing that the Lord says, “Whosesoever sins ye remit they are remitted to them, and whosesoever sins ye retain they are retained.” That means that the Lord contemplates that the assembly or the brethren composing the assembly, are to be trustworthy.

HOE Is it not noticeable that on that same day He recovers the two going to Emmaus, and also appeared to Peter?

AJG Quite so, you mean that He moved Himself in that spirit of grace? Exactly, and so He breathed into them. It is not so much the thought of the Spirit coming upon them as at Pentecost, although this, I have no doubt, was just pattern and looked on to Pentecost: It is not the thought of the Spirit as power outwardly, but of the Spirit as giving inward character to the way things are done, He breathed into them, so that things would be done in His own Spirit.

DLE Is the view of the assembly here as a whole as representing the Lord?

AJG I think so, as He would now commit administration to the assembly and it is to be carried out in His Spirit, and that involves the Spirit of grace on the one hand, and the spirit of faithfulness to God on the other, because the Lord was essentially faithful to God in all things.

RAE Is it so, as we take account of things practically, that only those who have some measure of entrance into privilege in the service of God, are capable of taking up assembly administration?

AJG I think so. It is clear that in our administration there is to be an impression left of what is heavenly, but if we are to be heavenly we must first enter into heaven. Just as the assembly is taken into heaven by Christ with Him, and then it comes forth from heaven as the heavenly city to administer for God.

HAL The thought of administration here is collective, is it not? And in the reference to the Holy Spirit it is “Receive the Holy Spirit”? His Spirit, as you have been saying?

AJG Yes, “Receive the Holy Spirit,” but He breathed into them, so that it is His own Spirit, and at the same time it is “Holy Spirit,” stressing holiness.

SW Does Thomas being absent infer that it is necessary for the element of unbelief to be absent?

AJG That is true, at the same time, of course, he represents someone who may be a little bit careless about getting to the meetings and he missed something. We have seen the Lord, they say, and Thomas would never be able to make good that loss. Thomas would never have, at first hand, that particular impression they got of the Lord. He might get some sense of it by the Spirit, but he missed it.

LBr So that next Lord’s Day we might not get the touch that we got today?

AJG Exactly, and if I am absent next Lord’s Day when I need not be, I shall miss something.

RS Would the very form of his expression imply that he had missed what had taken place on the previous Lord’s Day? Because that was not the form of expression referred to, it was “My Father and your Father, my God and your God.”

AJG Well, quite so. Of course, we know that dispensationally he represents Israel, so that there is the difference on that account.