POWER WITH GOD

POWER WITH GOD

Esther 4:9-17; Esther 5:1,2; Esther 5:9-14; Esther 6:1-12; Esther 8:1-4

AJG We were saying together last week that this book has particular application to the present time, because it contemplated definite movements of the enemy, which have in mind the complete obliteration of all that is genuine as maintaining what is due to God. The thought of Mordecai the Jew, and the people of the Jews is prominent in the book, and we remarked that the idea of the Jew is genuineness according to Romans 2, where it says, “He is a Jew who is so inwardly”. That is, the idea of the Jew in this book stresses, that what God is looking for is reality, genuineness. He does not look on the outward appearance He looks on the heart, what is inward, and Mordecai is several times spoken of as “the Jew,” and then his people are spoken of as “the people of Mordecai.” And we had in mind that we should be concerned to take on the features of Mordecai at all costs. What is characteristic of him is that he is always viewed as sitting in the king’s gate, that is, having a right judgment of things according to God, and maintaining a course that is consistent with that judgment; and that involves suffering and indeed bitter hostility, but then there is also another side represented in Esther, and that is that we should develop in the features that will afford God a reason for coming in on behalf of His people. We dwelt last week on the features that were first of all developed in Esther in order to make her agreeable to the king, who may be regarded as typifying God - features produced by the work of the Spirit, of whom Hegai is a type - but now we come to something further in Esther in the end of chapter 4 and beginning of chapter 5, that is, that which will give her power with the king, that is, with God. Not simply make her personally agreeable, but call forth the assurance that whatever she asks she shall have. That is what is needed at a time of crisis, and we are in a time of crisis. Evil is rapidly developing to its head, and Satan is behind it to get rid, if possible, of all that is genuine in the maintenance of the rights of God, and in such a position, what God is looking for is conditions amongst ourselves that will give Him a warrant for coming in. That is what the latter part of the history of Esther personally has in mind. Esther might have thought, viewing the matter naturally, that she was in a sheltered position, and that therefore she need not specially trouble herself about the position that was outside. Many of us may not be personally affected by the oppression of unions and other means by which Satan is seeking to make it impossible for those who maintain the rights of God to live, many of us may not be in personal contact with it. But the point is, are we taking our share in the exercises connected with it, and developing in conditions that will give us power with God? Obviously God could come in at any time apart from the saints, if He chose, but what He wants to do, is to come in in answer to the petitions of His people. That is, He wants to draw out in them His own feelings in relation to the matter.

VB You referred to conditions among the people which would warrant God’s coming in. Do you refer to the fasting that Esther enjoins on Mordecai and the Jews?

AJG That is an important element. I was thinking too of love expressing itself in laying down our lives for the brethren, because that is what Esther comes to, she is prepared to lay down her life for her people, she says, “If I perish, I perish.” But along with that, as you say, what gives real moral power to it, is this element of fasting. She is prepared to go in and request the king, that is, she is prepared to make her requests known to God, but the point is, what is going to give her power with God? Because she went in not knowing whether she was going to be heard or not, it was all a question of whether she found favour in his sight.

AAT How is fasting worked out today?

AJG Fasting is the denial of things that are legitimate. Fasting is not the disallowance of the flesh, that is normal Christianity, there is nothing abnormal about disallowing the flesh. But fasting is the refusal of things that are legitimate because of the urgency of the position.

AKH You refer to laying down our lives for the brethren, which is in John’s first epistle. I was wondering whether there would be any correspondence between Gaius in the third epistle, and the elect lady in the second, and the features seen in Mordecai and in Esther?

AJG There is a certain correspondence. In a sense, the elect lady would perhaps answer more to the features of holy care, because she was maintaining the truth, or rather she was enjoined to do so by refusing to admit anyone into her house, bringing anything contrary to the doctrine. Whereas Gaius was really laying down his life for the brethren in that he was receiving them into his house and sending them forth in a way worthily of God.

LAC Who would be represented in Hatach the chamberlain who conveys the communications between Esther and Mordecai?

AJG I suppose it is an element of sympathy. I think as the book develops we see certain elements of sympathy coming to light, there is this Hatach the chamberlain that Esther had at her disposal, and then in chapter 7, one of the king’s chamberlains, Harbonah, comes in and speaks well of Mordecai, he says, “Behold, also, the gallows fifty cubits high, that Haman made for Mordecai, who spoke good for the

king.” So that you have certain elements of sympathy appearing as the book proceeds. And that is often the way, that if we will take up the exercises that conditions call for, we will find that there are those who are sympathetic, perhaps in a minor way, but God can use them.

HLH Is not faith seen in Mordecai in that he refers to deliverance coming from another direction if she did not act?

AJG Quite so.

HLH Is not that an element that would strengthen us in the times we are in?

AJG I think it is. And I think it is very interesting, if we might just for a moment refer back to chapter 3, where we had in verse 7, Haman casting the lot, he did it in the first month, but he evidently cast the lot month by month or day by day in order to determine on what day and of what month his plan of destroying all the Jews was to be executed. And although he cast the lot in the first month, the lot fell for the twelfth month and the thirteenth day of that month, and the lot is at the disposing of the Lord, so that shows that God has a way of holding things back. He is fully aware of the plotting of Satan, all his machinations, but He has a way of keeping things in check and holding them back, deferring them. It is like, “He who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way,” and “That which restrains,” and so on. So that we always have that in our minds, that the whole matter is in God’s hands and He has what can hold things back and give time for the development of what He is looking for in the saints.

HLH And Mordecai would represent the intelligence that apprehends that, I suppose, the deliverance will come, but meantime there is a restraining power.

AJG Yes, quite so. You see the lot was cast in the first month and the letters were sent out in the first month, that what they were to do was to destroy all the Jews in the twelfth month. But then we find that in the third month letters that countermand these instructions, or rather give right to the Jews to stand for themselves, are sent out. So God in delaying matters gives time for the development of what He is looking for in the saints.

HLH And that is developed by the exercise of faith?

AJG Exactly. And then the subjective conditions being developed that He is looking for.

MC Do you think that these conditions were seen in Esther? He says to her, “Who knows whether thou art not come to the kingdom for such a time as this.”

AJG Well, what power have we with God? If every brother and sister were really pleasing to God, personally and morally pleasing to God, using the access they have to God to take up divine interests in an intelligent way, what power there would be!

DLE Does it not become our responsibility? Referring to that same verse, Esther could have said, If Mordecai says that deliverance will come from somewhere else, she might have shelved the responsibility.

AJG That is just the point, I think, that Mordecai urges her that it is her responsibility. That is really what the Spirit of God would lay upon us, that it is our responsibility. That we ought to be aware of what is working in the world in opposition to the saints who desire to be true, and to take it up as an urgent matter with God.

HOE He also goes on to say, “But thou and thy father’s house shall perish.”

AJG Yes.

VB So that it is an individual matter in that respect? Every individual brother and sister has that responsibility to take up the matter before God?

AJG Yes, exactly. The Lord says, “If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will and it shall come to pass to you.” That is like the king here saying, You shall have whatever you want, to the half of the kingdom. The Lord, so to speak, gives a blank cheque, providing there are those conditions fulfilled; that we abide in Him, which will preserve us in moral and spiritual suitability to God, and then, His word abiding in us, which would give us intelligence to know what to ask.

FHP You were speaking a little time ago of right feelings and fasting. Is not all that seen in Uriah the Hittite, in the matter of the Ark and what he said to David?

AJG Yes, it is. Fasting is that character of thing. It is not something commanded but it is something which is done because the urgency of the matter is felt. Certain things which in normal circumstances would be legitimate, are therefore done without, because the demands of the testimony are so urgent.

AY At a time of crisis there is to be no holding back, as Mordecai says here to Esther, “If thou altogether holdest thy peace.”

AJG Exactly. And I think it is right to say, it is a time of crisis now and will be till the Lord comes.

LAC Esther acted in a perfectly legitimate way in sending raiment with which to clothe Mordecai; but was it not the refusing of what is legitimate which is seen in him in the refusal of the raiment?

AJG Yes, quite so. She was moving according to her natural affections, desiring that Mordecai should set aside his sackcloth and so on. But he was feeling things with God.

LAC Is there a point which arrives when the matter of fasting can cease, in the sense of the distinct intervention of God? He does not later refuse the apparel ordered by the king.

AJG No, quite so. Fasting is, of course, something special, and therefore it may be that in that sense it can go on for a time and cease, but I think the more we are committed to the testimony the more we shall find that it is a time of crisis right through until the Lord comes.

HLH Mordecai is speaking to Esther and saying, “Who knows whether thou art not come to the kingdom for such a time as this.” Does that not suggest that our position is not at all a promiscuous one, it is definitely ordered of God for some purpose?

AJG I am sure of that. And one feels what immense privilege and power we have available to us if we will exercise it as not only having been brought to God, but being brought out of the bondage that marks so many Christians. Many true believers who have a title to draw near to God are not, in fact, in liberty. But most of us, I suppose, are enjoying a good measure of liberty. God has wrought so that we should be delivered from what would hold us in bondage and brought us into the knowledge of the truth which sets free.

HLH Is the sceptre a symbol of the kingdom then, and of power?

AJG Well, it refers to that, but I think it is a kind of standard that the king required. Is Esther equal to coming up to it? I think it is a suggestion of love, because it is a golden sceptre. If we are to have power with God, God says, how much love have you? If we have not love we have nothing. That is, if I am just here going along easily pleasing myself I am not much developed in love, but if I am taking up the burdens of the saints in prayer with God, and perhaps sacrificing to do it, then there is some little expression of love. It is a question whether we are equal to touching the top of the golden sceptre.

RS Is it not important that we should know, someone should know, what the enemy is doing? It says, “When Mordecai knew all that was done.”

AJG Yes, I think it is.

SP Does the fasting here for three days suggest a limited period or does it go on for the whole period of the Christian’s pathway here?

AJG Well, one does not want in any way to convey an impression of laying down things in a demanding way, so that as you say it is three days. Fasting really, I think, is what we take up spontaneously as feeling the urgency of the thing, not exactly something that is laid down that we must do. But on the other hand fasting is made much of here. We read that the Lord said in one case, “This kind does not go out but by prayer and fasting.” And then it says in regard of the sending out of Barnabas and Saul, “Having fasted and prayed, and having laid their hands on them, they let them go.” And earlier, before that, it says that “they were ministering to the Lord and fasting.” This all shews that fasting had a good deal of place in the early days.

SP Would you say the conditions of the moment being so great would call for that?

AJG Exactly.

HLH Do the three days then suggest a certain period of exercise, a process that reaches a climax?

AJG I would think so, and sufficiently long to prove the genuineness of it. It does not only last for one day, it was continued for a second day and then a third day, showing that there was real exercise involved in it.

DLE We notice in verse 17 that Mordecai does what Esther says, previously Esther did what Mordecai told her like as when she was brought up with him. Do you think Mordecai here follows a spiritual lead?

AJG Well, it is very interesting in this book how Mordecai and Esther from this point onward seem to be closely linked together, as though they represent the two sides, each the complement of the other, which God is looking for in the saints. So that at the end of the book, in chapter 9, verse 29 it says, “And queen Esther the daughter of Abihail, and Mordecai the Jew wrote with all authority,” and then in verse 31 it says, “According as Mordecai the Jew and queen Esther had enjoined them.” One time the queen, Esther, is put first and Mordecai with her, and then Mordecai is put first and Esther with him; as though it represents two sides of what God is looking for in us, each complementary of the other.

SP Would you say a little more about that?

AJG Well, Mordecai represents, as we were saying, the thought of unflinching maintenance of the rights of God whatever it costs. Esther represents the subjective features that will have power with God, so that God, in answer to her request will come into the matter and save His people.

LAC Is it really that the inward support is quite necessary to maintain the outward position? Esther and her maids are fasting inside and Mordecai and his people are fasting outside.

AJG Quite so. We get, for instance, Simeon, a man characterised by the Holy Spirit and so on, and serving God in intelligence and power, and then we have immediate mention of Anna, a suggestion of the subjective condition that supports what Simeon stands for.

AAT Is that Christ as the Man and the assembly as the woman, the feminine side? Is that how it is worked out?

AJG Well, it is that from one point of view, but on the other hand what Mordecai represents is really a feature to be found in the saints though on the line of the maintenance of responsibility, the maintenance of the rights of God. And then Esther represents a feature in the saints of a more hidden character that gives us power with God. Of course, anything that Mordecai is as faithful is learned from Christ. He is supremely the faithful and true Witness.

MSS Could we connect what the Lord says in Matthew 18, “If two of you shall agree... it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens”?

AJG Well, I think so. Only, here, what is in mind, is not so much two of you agreeing, but the features that mark the one who is going to do the praying. Of course, we all ought to pray, those that are having to stand for the rights of God and those who are sympathetic with them. But I mean, it is another side to the truth, it is a question not simply of praying, but of whether there is something about us that will command God’s attention and ensure an answer.

MSS I wondered if you were looking at it rather in the light of collective prayer?

AJG I think collective prayer derives its power from what marks the individuals. That is if I am not right with God individually, I shall not contribute much to the company in collective prayer, I may hinder.

AT I notice you mentioned just now the thought of commanding God’s attention. In Nineveh God’s attention would be commanded in their fasting.

AJG Quite so, the fact that they all put on sackcloth and fasted. But that was rather as an evidence of repentance. This is a question of those who already have access to God.

VB You said just now that the sceptre would suggest a standard. Do you think Esther came up to that standard?

AJG I think that is exactly the point, it not only says that the king held out to Esther the golden sceptre that was in his hand, but it says that Esther drew near and touched the top of the sceptre, that is she was equal to the standard and answered to it.

RS Is it not right to say that through what Mordecai was saying to her from time to time she was more developing in these feelings? I mean as to what would be suitable to God, because she had before her mind that she would have to go in to the king?

AJG Exactly.

RS In what way do we develop in these feelings?

AJG Well, the more we see things as God sees them, and the more we see how the saints suffer or are threatened with suffering as a result of the enemy’s movements, the more, I think, we shall develop in these feelings. The first thing is to be marked increasingly by praying for the saints, praying for all saints and praying intelligently, not simply praying in a general way that God will bless all His people but taking up with God the exercises that His people are confronted with. That will help develop us in the feelings.

RAE And have you before you that we have in our minds, not simply that God loves His people and that He will come in for them but that we should furnish the conditions that would make Him do so?

AJG Yes, exactly.

AY So that in every crisis along this line where there is this subjective element found, it gives God ground to come in for His people?

AJG That is it. So God orders certain conditions here which made Esther to feel that she had got to take up this special exercise. She says that the king had not called her for thirty days, and that there was this law, that if anyone went in to the king without being called it meant death unless he was pleased to hold out the golden sceptre. So all that would promote a great deal of exercise with her.

She would say to herself, I must go into the king, but what must I do in order to ensure that the sceptre will be held out to me? It is either that or being slain. So you can understand that she would go through a great deal of exercise.

HLH Is not one character of exercise suggested in the garments that were associated with mourning and fasting, and another in the putting on of the royal apparel. Does not all that enter into the matter of being pleasing to the king?

AJG I think so. It is striking how chapter 5 emphasizes that: “Esther put on royal apparel and stood in the inner court of the king’s house, over against the king’s house. And the king sat upon his royal throne in the royal house.” So that it is all emphasizing the great dignity of the king, that is, of God, and what befits us in having to do with God.

HAL I was wondering about, There is one law, whether that would not suggest that with God there is no respect of persons?

AJG Well, quite so, and I think it is a question of our understanding that while we have in the Holy Spirit great liberty with God and have title to go in to God at any time, God looks for certain moral conditions. So that it says in the Psalm that if I have iniquity in my heart God will not hear me. It is no use my saying, I am a believer and I have the Spirit and I can draw near to God, if I am allowing iniquity in my heart God will not hear me. That is the law, you might say.

EB Would you say that these features were discerned by the king Ahasuerus, that as she drew near she obtained grace in his sight?

AJG Yes, I think so. As the result of the exercise through which she passed, three days fasting, and then all the exercise involved in putting on royal apparel, what came to light in her determination to go in was that she was formed in love for God’s people, so she was prepared if necessary to lay down her life for them.

SP Is the standard then love? Love is that which would enable us to go in?

AJG Yes, exactly, if I have not love I am nothing. That is my measure.

MC Her dress then would speak of what is moral in the saints?

AJG Quite so.

HEB Do you think that what marked her previously in connection with her purification is carried forward? So that that linked with the royal apparel would suggest that she is right inwardly and outwardly?

AJG I would think so. I have no doubt all that, as you say, what characterised her in the early chapters is carried forward, but then there is this additional feature. I mean, we might be marked by virgin character, preserving ourselves in holiness, and we may have taken on something of the features of Christ, the fruit of the Spirit may be in evidence in us; but then there is this additional feature that God looks for, that we should develop more and more in love that expresses itself in self-sacrifice.

FHP All that marks Esther seems to be set out here including the fact that her title is given to her. I do not think it had been before, apart from the fact that it mentions earlier that she was made queen instead of Vashti.

AJG You mean she is now called. Queen Esther? Quite so.

LAC The golden sceptre is held out twice - she approaches twice.

AJG That is another matter that we shall come to, that even after Haman himself has been hanged that is not sufficient, there are still the results of his influence which have got to be met. So that she goes in again to the king “and besought him with tears to put away the mischief of Haman the Agagite,” (chapter 8) and again the king holds out the golden sceptre. You would have thought that a woman in tears was quite unsuitable in the royal palace, but her tears commended her.

LAC I was thinking specially too of the difference between them both. In the first she is standing but here in the second she is made to arise. It says, in verse 4 of chapter 8, “And the king held out the golden sceptre toward Esther. And Esther arose and stood before the king.”

AJG Yes, that is because it had previously been said that she fell down at his feet and besought him with tears, showing that she is increasing in feeling.

EB So I suppose you would say that God would value our tears in this respect?

AJG Exactly. But then we ought not to overlook the paragraph from verse 9 to the end of chapter 5, because that stresses that Mordecai is in the king’s gate, and that is what incites the enemy’s hatred. “When Haman saw Mordecai in the king’s gate, that he stood not up nor moved for him, he was full of fury,” and then he says in verse 13, “Yet all this is no avail to me so long as I see Mordecai the Jew sitting at the king’s gate.” It is that that is stirring up Satan’s opposition, that the saints are standing for the rights of God, and there is a testimony to conscience being more and more borne; in regard of military matters and in regard of industrial matters there is a testimony to conscience which is an assertion of the rights of God, and it is that that is stirring up the enemy’s opposition.

LAC Is it not very remarkable that after his temporary exaltation, he returns to the king’s gate while Haman hastens to his house?

AJG Quite so, it is characteristic of him.

AY I was thinking, that what we see in Mordecai is that he does not seem to have himself or his own glory before him, but he seems to have the rights of the throne before him, he sits in the gate, hence he had saved the king’s life.

AJG That is exactly the point, and it is that that the enemy is opposed to, and in chapter 2 we have, that while he sat in the gate two of the king’s chamberlains were wroth and sought to lay hands on king Ahasuerus. And you might say that that is some matter that arises in a local company, some evil comes in which is a challenge to the rights of God and the saints learn to deal with it, they learn to maintain the rights of God. It was told to Esther and she certified it to the king in Mordecai’s name, that is, it is brought before the assembly. It is certified to Esther and it is investigated and the culprits are hanged. That is like a local matter coming up in the assembly, and by means of that the saints learn to stand for the rights of God. But now it is becoming a more general matter. Mordecai is still sitting in the king’s gate, and the enemy is devising now, not only to get rid of Mordecai but all his people, all that are like-minded, and that is the enemy’s aim.

RAE You mean that fidelity in local assembly exercises qualifies us for fidelity in the public position?

AJG Exactly, and it is that fidelity in assembly matters, using the type, that is brought to the notice of the king at the critical moment, it is that that he is reminded of. And he calls for the chronicles and he reads in the chronicles how “Mordecai had told of Bigthana and Teresh, two of the king’s chamberlains, keepers of the threshold” - it is that that is really brought to remembrance at the right moment.

LBr What we have here then is that the enemy does not like to see the people of God pleasing Him?

AJG No, exactly.

RS So is it that the more evil lifts its head up,

the more need there is for these features to be developed in us, so that God can come in?

AJG Exactly. It is a question of the maintenance of the rights of the throne on the one hand, whether it be in assembly matters or in personal matters, and matters of employment and so on; and then, as you were saying, the development of the features in us that Esther stands for. So that we may give God ground for coming in on behalf of His people.

TG Would that be seen in the case of Peter, when they came and laid hands on him the saints were praying?

AJG Yes, quite. It says, “Unceasing prayer was made by the assembly to God concerning him.” And so He came in for him.

HEB Can we maintain these two features at the same time, the standing for the rights of God as suggested in Mordecai, and then laying down our life for the brethren, as suggested in Esther, the love you spoke of as seen in her?

AJG That is what is wanted, I think. The idea is, of course, that both what Mordecai stands for and what Esther stands for should be found with us.

CB Would you say the judgment of the saints corresponds with the judgment of God about this matter?

AJG Quite so.

FHP I was thinking of how encouraged we might be in all this, thinking of Daniel who is also spoken of as being in the king’s gate, and later we find him spoken to twice as a man greatly beloved, on account of maintaining what was right in the sight of heaven.

AJG Exactly. The book of Daniel and the book of Esther are both most encouraging books on this very line of how God will come in when necessary, but He looks for conditions in us. So there was faithfulness with Daniel and his three companions and then in chapter 9 of Daniel we find the feelings that marked Daniel.

LAC Does it not appear very remarkable that whereas at first Haman was content to postpone the destruction of Mordecai to the twelfth month, and destroy him along with the other Jews, yet his continual unabating faithfulness and remaining in the king’s gate, so annoys him that he is willing to accept the advice of his wife and friends to get rid of him immediately?

AJG Well, that is another thing, that if on the one hand we find certain sympathetic elements there are also certain elements supporting what is evil, but then God knows all about it, that is the great thing.

HAL Does God take the same occasion to vindicate the testimony publicly?

AJG Well, He may do so at any time. He did so here in an outstanding way. We cannot exactly dictate to God what He will do, but these scriptures show that He can do so and may do so in an extraordinary way.

HAL Nevertheless Mordecai as standing for the rights of the throne is, as you say, characteristic, he goes back to the king’s gate even though the honour is bestowed upon him.

AJG Yes, and it is very striking that he is one who is judged worthy to wear the royal apparel and to ride on the king’s horse, and the horse was to have the royal crown set upon it: so that as a result of all these exercises Mordecai is invested, you might almost say, with divine dignity, typically. I mean, it almost suggests what the final upshot of all these exercises is, that the assembly is formed as able to come down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. She can bear divine glory.

HAL Is that what the Lord says to Philadelphia, that He will make them of the synagogue of Satan to come and worship at the feet of the assembly?

AJG Well, I was thinking of that, that is something like it.

RS Haman’s wife is the first one to express the idea of this gallows, is she not? What would you say about that?

AJG There is the general thought of Satan scheming against the saints, and there are those who are in sympathy with him who might quite unexpectedly give a turn to things, making things go worse for the moment.

CB Have you anything to say about the vigilance that marks Esther?

AJG Well, it is very striking that she maintains a testimony to the principle of grace in that she invites Haman only to a banquet, and then invites him to another banquet the second day. It seems to me to be a suggestion that in the midst of all these exercises and the serious character of them, the saints are concerned to maintain the spirit of grace toward persons. There is to be no condoning of evil, but nevertheless the maintenance of the spirit of grace toward persons. So that Haman is given an opportunity for repentance, you might say, in the grace shown to him in the first banquet.

EB As it were, keeping within the present dispensation?

AJG Yes, exactly. It is a very important matter, because as evil increases and men become more and more unreasonable, much grace is needed to maintain our spirits in accord with the dispensation.

HOE It says in Romans 12, “If therefore thine enemy should hunger, feed him.”

AJG Quite so.

RS In hearing of certain unreasonable treatment to our brethren, the first tendency, if we allow it to work, is to get heated about it, and it is there that we want to be pulled up as to the grace of the dispensation?

AJG Quite so.

BA Do we not see that in all that the enemy plans against the saints, it is for his own destruction in the end?

AJG Quite so. It must have been a real test to Esther’s spirit to sit down at the banquet with Haman on the first day. The second day she says, “This wicked Haman,” she has got a spiritual judgment about him, but the first day she sits down to a banquet with him.

WR I would like to hear something about verse 12 of chapter 5, Haman saying that the queen would allow no one but himself to come into the banquet.

AJG Oh, well, that is just the boastfulness of Haman. It is just the pride and vain glory of the man, and there is a great deal of that in the world now among those who are opposed to the truth.

MSS The book of records of the chronicles, would it suggest that no bit of faithfulness to God goes overlooked, even though reward may be delayed?

AJG Exactly. So that the last verse of chapter 2 ends like that. “It was written in the book of the chronicles before the king.” So that is an encouragement to us, if we have assembly matters to take up and deal with them faithfully, it is chronicled. God takes account of it. It is an example of faithfulness on the part of the saints in maintaining the rights of the throne and He will take account of it, and will not forget it. It will give Him an additional incentive to come in for the saints.

LAC Would you say a little now about this second approach of Esther to the king?

AJG Well, just, I think, that we do not need to be deceived or to relax in our exercises just because there may be a temporary alleviation of the position, or even an indication that God has begun to come in.

The point is that there is still a great deal working. Haman had been hanged, but then the letters had gone out. The evil was still working, you might say. And thus what I think is in mind is that we have got to maintain the exercise as long as there is a threat to God’s people, even though we may be encouraged that it looks as if God is beginning to take matters in hand in a certain direction.

LAC Is it not noticeable also that Esther seems to have gained some liberty through her own exercises. At first she only went after a very severe message from Mordecai but now she goes on her own initiative.

AJG Yes, I think that is encouraging.

LBl Haman began to boast very early, but Esther going on with what is positive is seen the second time on her face. Would you say that is very instructive to us?

AJG I am sure it is important that she is really increasing in her feeling and deepening in her exercise, and taking things up now on her own initiative without having to be required to do so, and it says, she “fell down at his feet, and besought him with tears to put away the mischief of Haman the Agagite.”

RAE Would you say that for the rest of the time the assembly is here now the threat never ceases?

AJG I think we may be assured of that. We may see God come in in a certain direction and be greatly rejoiced by it and rightly thankful for it if and when He does, but we may rest assured that the enemy will not cease as long as the saints are here. It is a question of his hating any maintenance of the rights of God.

HEB What would be the force of writing to reverse the letters of Haman?

AJG That was necessary to undo the evil. You see in the first month of the year the letters had gone out from Haman with the king’s seal, telling the people all over his vast dominion, that in the twelfth month they were to slay all the Jews, men and women and children, without exception. And that edict was not to be reversed, it could not be reversed, so the only way to meet it was by the way that was adopted, in the third month to send out further letters, and to speed them too to make sure they got there before the twelfth month, to authorise the Jews to stand up for themselves and fight those who opposed them. And as we read the book we find that God prospered it and the fear of Mordecai fell upon the people and many of them helped the Jews and so on. We have not time for all that detail now but it shows how God came in in a remarkable way.

HAL So the Lord is the One who keeps the door open?

AJG Well, He is, if he does, that is the point. He opens and no man shuts but He also shuts and no man opens, hence we have to give Him ground for opening the door.

EMe So you would say God intends to carry the issue to a complete end, but on our side we must carry through the exercise too?

AJG That is it. Exactly.

LAC Would it be that the faithfulness of Mordecai would move the king to entrust to him his own ring, his authority in that way, but the grace, the grace of Christ as seen in the man, would move Esther to put him over Haman’s house?

AJG I do not know that there is grace in that because as we read later on the ten sons of Haman were hanged.

LAC What would we understand from that?

AJG That the evil is really dealt with drastically and thoroughly. Of course, when it is a question of anyone like Esther giving orders for people to be hanged, in its application to us it is that we judge in our own souls the principles that have got to be repudiated. That is, if God raises an exercise as to joining unions and that kind of thing and brethren suffer through faithfulness, then I begin to look around and see if all my associations are in keeping with the exercise.

HOE Is the ring a sign that God is with us in it?

AJG Yes, I think so.

RS What would you say about the man that God delights to honour, in the honour that was bestowed on Mordecai?

AJG God will vindicate the saints. If He does not do it publicly at the present time He will do it in the world to come. There is no man who has ever been able to bear divine glory who has not failed. Nebuchadnezzar was given a position something like that in the ways of God, “Thou art this head of gold,” Daniel said, but then he failed. And so with everyone to whom things have been entrusted. Noah was set up in government and he failed, but then the assembly will not fail, it will come down from heaven from God having the glory of God and be faithful through the millennium and be untarnished as the day of eternity starts.

LAC In the first approach to the king there is the recognition, as you have pointed out, on Esther’s side, of the need to immediately gain the king’s pleasure. Here, there are four things which she mentions as conditions on which the king could grant her petition. In chapter 8 verse 5, “If it please the king and if I have found grace before him, and the thing seem right to the king, and I be pleasing in his sight.” Would it be there the full recognition in a soul of the moral features which must be present in view of having power with God?

AJG Yes, I think so.