SPIRITUALITY

SPIRITUALITY

Genesis 24:10-14; Genesis 24:28-30; Genesis 24:61-67; Ephesians 2:18

AJG What was in one’s mind was that we need spirituality, that is, a spiritual condition in ourselves, and also the support and help of the Holy Spirit, right through in the service of the assembly, both in that part of it that relates to the Lord, that has Christ in view, and that part that relates to the Father. We know that the twenty-fourth of Genesis is a remarkably full chapter, and capable of being taken up in many different lights, but we have been helped to see that one light in which the latter part of the chapter may be viewed is the way that the assembly is brought to Christ following on, or as the result of, the Supper. But underlying that is a necessary state of spirituality among ourselves. What is to be noticed in Genesis 24 is that when Isaac lifted up his eyes, what he sees is the camels. It does not say that he saw Rebecca, but what attracts his attention is the camels, camels in movement. That is evidently a suggestion of the saints moving together as one in the power of the Spirit. That is what attracted Isaac’s attention, and that is what is so attractive, we may say, to the heart of Christ. And then when we come to Ephesians, the verse that is so well known, we have not only the service of Christ but also the service of the Spirit. “Through him,” it says, that is Christ, “we have both access by one Spirit to the Father.” So that throughout the service, the service of the Spirit as unifying the saints and carrying them, empowering them in movement, is in view. But before that and underlying it is a state of spirituality among the saints which is typified in Rebecca in relation to the well, and to her own pitcher, all of which are important features in the chapter. So that we find that the servant made the camels kneel down outside the city by a well of water, and he stipulates that when the daughters of the men of the city come out to draw water, “let it come to pass that the maiden to whom I shall say, Let down thy pitcher, I pray thee, that I may drink; and who will say drink and I will give thy camels drink also, be she whom thou hast appointed,” So that the first thing of great importance is the well and how Rebecca stands in relation to the well. And then in verse 30 when Laban comes out it says that “he came to the man, and behold he was standing by the camels by the well,” so that the well and the camels are evidently of great importance in the sight of the servant, so that he would impress them upon anyone who comes out. He was standing there by the camels by the well.

SP What is the significance of the well at the present moment?

AJG The well is, of course, a type of the Holy Spirit, but then the idea in a well is, of course, different from the idea in camels, and different from the idea in the servant, although all are different types of the Spirit. But we can easily see that the well is the fundamental thought, because it would be a necessary daily matter for those in the East to come to the well, they would have no means of refreshment, no water to drink, if they did not come to the well. They would have no means of cleansing if they did not come to the well. The well would be a daily matter for them, and a daily necessity. And so it really represents the feature of the Spirit as testing us as to how far we are spiritual, how far we really avail ourselves of the Spirit as a habitual, daily matter.

HLH Does the spontaneous offer on the part of Rebecca to give the camels drink also suggest the underlying spiritual conditions that you refer to?

AJG I think it would. She was ready and able to afford refreshment to the Holy Spirit, typified in the servant. And, of course, the Spirit is with us all the time and therefore we are either pleasing Him or grieving Him. We are doing one or the other, we are either affording Him refreshment or we are affording Him displeasure.

JS So that the well is very important?

AJG The well is very important; it is basic; it underlies all the rest.

JS “Shall be in him a well of water springing up.”

AJG That is it. Quite so.

AAT Is there more than one well in this chapter?

AJG At the end we get the well Beer-lahai-roi. Of course, there are many wells in Genesis especially, showing that the Spirit of God is constantly being brought before us. But I think this well outside the city, “He made the camels kneel down outside the city by a well of water, at the time of the evening, when the women came out to draw water,” is to stress the idea of what is needed every day, habitually.

SW Would “many wells” suggest the availability of the Spirit?

AJG I am sure it would, especially in chapter 26, which follows on this, where Isaac is seen constantly digging wells.

LAC You mentioned Rebecca’s pitcher, did you have in mind to say something about that?

AJG Well, it says in verse 15, that when Rebecca came out she had her pitcher upon her shoulder, and then the servant ran to meet her and said, “Let me, I pray thee, sip a little water out of thy pitcher. And she said, Drink, my lord! And she hasted and let down her pitcher on her hand.” The pitcher is really identified with Rebecca, that is, it is suggested that Rebecca is fully a vessel of the Spirit. The pitcher is really part of her; she had carried it on her shoulder and she had let it down on her hand.

LAC She filled it at the well in verse 16.

AJG Yes.

MSS In the fourth of John the woman left her water-pot and went her way into the city, is that a similar thought?

AJG Not exactly. Discarding the water-pot is that she herself is to be the vessel now, because she had come to draw from a well that was not a type of the Spirit. The Lord said of that well, “Everyone who drinks of this water shall thirst again,” so the well she came to was not a type of the Spirit, and so she discards her water-pot in the recognition that she herself is now to be a vessel of the Spirit.

AT Would the number of camels here, ten, suggest the availability of the Spirit for service?

AJG I have no doubt it refers to the sufficiency there is in the Spirit for whatever is required. The servant knew what was required, and all the resources of his master were under his hand, and he took what was required.

JS How would this come in, “Spring up, O well, Sing ye unto it”?

AJG That is a very important matter; as understanding that the Spirit is here with us all the time, it is a happy thing to express our recognition of that, that He is here to bring in freshness. And we particularly need that in handling a chapter like this that has been so much before saints of recent years, that there should be freshness, not novelties, but freshness, so that the truth might have present application to us.

SC He made the camels to kneel down; was it by authority or by influence?

AJG Of course, it is natural to camels to kneel down in order to take water. God has caused that kind of creature to act in that way. It is all, I believe, brought in to accentuate the idea of dependence which always goes along with the Spirit.

HOE Perhaps you would say a little more about the pitcher, we all need water; we need refreshment; we need cleansing, and we need a pitcher to draw it.

AJG I think it simply means that there needs to be a vessel. It is one thing for us to talk about the Spirit, and all that He is able to be to us, but as we get it in 2 Kings 4, the great need is vessels, empty vessels, and the pitcher is that. Rebecca’s own pitcher is what she was herself as a vessel.

LBr Is it more a question of our state?

AJG That is what it amounts to. It is the state with us, as to whether we are looking to the Spirit, and affording Him the scope that He desires, or whether we are careless about the presence of the Spirit, and grieving Him.

HOE A dependent and receptive mind and heart?

AJG Yes, exactly.

DLE Would you say a little as to refreshing the Spirit?

AJG The Spirit is God, and He is dwelling in us all the time, therefore, the more we do what is pleasing to God, the more He will be refreshed, and the more we do what is displeasing to God the more He will be grieved. It is a very simple thing, it seems to me, refreshing the Spirit; He is here in us. By the activities of love, hospitality and anything that we do that is pleasing to God; we refresh the Spirit who is dwelling in us. Anything we do that is displeasing to Him would grieve Him.

HLH To do that we have to be constantly replenished. After she had given the servant enough to drink, then she says, “I will draw water for thy camels also,” which suggests a fresh phase of exercise, does it not?

AJG It does, I think, and a readiness and availability on her part, and activity too. As Mr. Taylor said years ago, Christianity is not an armchair matter; it is not a question of sitting at home in comfort and reading books; it is a question of activity, although there has to be quietness as well, in order to receive the truth and assimilate it. But the truth is to work out in practice. So it says of Jesus that He went about doing good.

FHP Would you say that Rebecca is a sample of that? An example for us, she is marked by spiritual alertness and also spiritual energy?

AJG Yes, I think so; great energy.

HLH And the more we are marked by refreshing the Spirit the more we shall find that we are being replenished?

AJG I am sure of that, and therefore there is the need of the balancing of the two things, the subjection and quietness and restfulness that are necessary for replenishment, and then the activity in which the movements of love and all that is pleasing to God find expression.

AAT She let down her pitcher. How would you apply that today?

AJG It just shows that she was agile and ready. First she comes out with the pitcher on her shoulder, showing that she is marked by power in her movements, and then she could let down her pitcher on her hand quite readily. It just shows readiness and agility on her part, I think, but the pitcher is really herself. Rebecca and her pitcher are identified.

WT Would you connect this with the scripture in the gospel when it says, “And a man shall meet you carrying a pitcher of water, follow him”?

AJG Very much the same idea. Really that was characteristic of the man, that he had spiritual refreshment, a living ministry, with him.

AAT I think you made some distinction between the Spirit and the power of the Spirit?

AJG Well, the camels evidently represent the Spirit viewed as power for movement and that is very necessary when we are together, that the saints should move together as one. And hence the great need of being unified in the Spirit, and moving together as one having one thought, and I believe that is what the camels represent. So that when Isaac lifted up his eyes it was camels he saw coming; that feature attracted him.

LAC In connection with what you were saying as to affording pleasure to the Holy Spirit, does scripture support the thought of having the Holy Spirit as an Object, or does the Spirit’s pleasure rest in our having Christ as an Object and His being pleased with that?

AJG I think the main service of the Spirit is to glorify Christ and to glorify the Father too, but then He is one of the Godhead, and is serving in a wonderful way, and we are baptised to the Name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: which is an objective presentation of the Spirit; so evidently there is room for Him to be apprehended objectively.

LAC Would you help us a little more on that line? I think we need considerable help just there.

AJG I think we shall get help on that as we develop spirituality. I think what we need is spirituality to start with, and to come to a more definite recognition of the part the Spirit takes in the assembly, both in relation to the Lord and in relation to the Father.

CB What the Lord said in John 4, “Give me to drink,” that was a test to spirituality that was not there yet, but eventually the woman became a vessel.

AJG Yes, quite so.

AAT Would you say that the spirituality, as you are mentioning at the moment, depends upon state?

AJG The term spirituality, as I understand it, simply means a spiritual state.

HN Would you say that was lacking at Corinth?

AJG It evidently was, in so far as the assembly as a whole was concerned; I have no doubt there were individual brothers and sisters there who were spiritual.

HN Would what the apostle wrote too with regard to keeping the feast of unleavened bread of sincerity and truth, come in here?

AJG That is a necessary basis. There could be no spirituality apart from that. That really is a question more of what is moral than of what is spiritual. When we speak of what is moral we are speaking of questions of right and wrong and good and evil, and what is moral must underlie what is spiritual.

BLW Is there anything in the fact that the well was outside the city?

AJG I suppose in a general way, it suggests that there is nothing in common between the Spirit and the world, if we regard the city as a type of the world. Whether or not it is necessarily that, it would be true that there is nothing in common between the Spirit and the world; we know that from chapter 14 of John’s gospel. But it says, He made the camels kneel down outside the city by a well of water, at the time of the evening when the women came out to draw water. I think it is suggestive of a certain movement out in order to get the gain of the Spirit. If we spend all our time in natural things, or worse still, in fleshly things, we shall not know much of replenishment by the Holy Spirit. So the women had to come out to draw water.

HOE Are spiritual thoughts and impressions, then, got and enjoyed more outside the daily life of responsibility?

AJG Well, of course, the Spirit can help us in our daily responsibilities, He is with us all the time. It is in the power of the Spirit that the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us. He is there to help us all the time, but as you say, I think we need to be in liberty from those things in order really to get the gain of what the Spirit would open up to us of heavenly things.

AY What would we learn from verse 12, the servant here says, “Jehovah, God of my master Abraham, meet me, I pray thee, with thy blessing this day, and deal kindly with my master Abraham”?

AJG Well, he is concerned for his master. It is good to see that the Spirit in all His activities is concerned with the Father and the Son. He is sent forth by the father at the beginning of the chapter, so that his master is the father, and at the end of the chapter he says that the son is his master, so that it is the Spirit typically serving in relation to the Father and the Son. If we are desirous of becoming spiritual we shall soon detect the things that are a hindrance to us and those have to be left, as was said.

AAT She says to the servant, “Drink, my lord.” There is a certain conversation going on, is there not, between Rebecca and the servant? Has it any application today?

AJG Yes, I think so. I think we need to cultivate communion with the Holy Spirit, because He has come so near to us and is with us all the time, that He is ready to help us. And He is there on behalf of the Father and of the Son.

HOE Why does she say, “Drink, my lord,” and when the servant is repeating it in verse 46, he does not say, My lord, he says, “Drink”?

AJG It is suggestive, I suppose, of the lowliness of the Spirit in His service, the servant does not say, Drink, my lord. And on the other hand, the fact that Rebecca does say, Drink, my lord; shows with what respect she had treated him.

LAC Should we seek liberty now to address the Spirit as Lord?

AJG That would be legitimate, as far as I understand,

because “Lord” is a title that is applied to God. The title “Lord” can rightly be attributed to any of the Persons of the Godhead, as far as I understand, so long as we distinguish the lordship of Christ. Jesus is the only One who is made Lord. So that if we want to address the Lord Jesus, we should either say, Lord Jesus; or if we are speaking in public it should be perfectly clear who it is we are speaking to. He is made Lord, but on the other hand, the Father is called Lord, the Lord Himself calls the Father Lord, “Lord of heaven and earth”, and He is called Lord in James’ epistle, “Therewith bless we the Lord and Father” it says. And then we get: “the Lord the Spirit” in the third of 2 Corinthians. So “Lord” is a general title that may be applied rightly to any Person of the Godhead. But then there is only one Man who is Lord and that is Jesus; He has been made Lord.

CB It says here of the servant that all the treasure of his master was under his hand, and it says in John’s gospel, the Father loveth the Son and hath given all things to be in His hand.

AJG That is very interesting, that all things are placed by the Father in the hand of the Son according to John 3, and according to this typical scripture, all the wealth of the Father is under the hand of the Spirit. That shows that there is no divergence at all between the Persons of the Godhead. It is all in the hand of Christ administratively and He will be displayed as the One into whose hand everything has been committed, but then at the same time the Spirit is down here on behalf of Christ, and on the Father’s behalf as well: and therefore all that may be needed at any time for the service that He has in hand is there at His disposal.

MSS Is that scripture, “To us... there is one Lord, Jesus Christ”, explained by what you said about the Lord Jesus being made Lord?

AJG Yes, I think so. “To us there is one God, the Father, of whom all things and we for him” - that shows that the Father is regarded as in the place of supremacy. To us there is one God, the Father. And then, one Lord, Jesus Christ, that is the place of administration, and Jesus has been made Lord. But in a general way the title Lord may be applied to any one of the Godhead. It is because Jesus is God that we worship Him.

MSS There is this feature of haste in verse 20. It says, “She hasted and emptied her pitcher”, and then it says she “ran again.” Is there some significance in that?

AJG I think it is very important in connection with assembly service, that while we do not want to be restless, we want to be restful and subject, yet that there should not be dilatoriness or anything suggesting indolence. There should be alertness and readiness in the Spirit.

WSW She is marked by agility?

AJG That seems to characterise her, that she is marked by agility, which evidently is a feature of spiritual state. Often we find ourselves tested in something required to be done. It may be we find we have to go through a certain process of self-examination and cleansing before we are equal to it, because we have been careless, but not so with Rebecca, she was equal to the moment.

AAT She not only gave the servant water to drink but she gave to the camels also; a lot of work was involved?

AJG Yes, exactly. I do not know how much a camel can drink but it is a pretty considerable quantity, and there were ten of them. And a young woman drawing it from a well with a pitcher, would mean a good deal of hard labour, and she was equal to it and ready for it.

MC It says here, “And hereby I shall know that thou hast dealt kindly with my master,” as an answer to his request as to the maiden.

AJG That is what the Spirit is looking for in the saints. He recognises these features. He is looking for spirituality, conditions in which the Spirit is habitually and characteristically recognised; because then, we shall be able with more definite power to move into assembly service.

WH Do we not see features of the Spirit in the servant standing, and the camels by the well, and the man being astonished?

AJG Mr. Taylor has drawn attention to that very verse, verse 21, and to a verse that we get in one of the gospels where it says of the Lord when the centurion answered Him, that He wondered (Matthew 8: 10). And here it says the man was astonished, as though, as the work of God in souls comes into evidence, it is so wonderful, so great, that it could be said even of the Lord, that He wondered, and that one who typifies the Spirit is said to be astonished. It is just to convey to us, I think, how thoroughly appreciative divine Persons are as they see the work of God in the saints showing itself.

RS Do you think all that is to teach us on our part to appreciate the work of God in one another?

AJG I believe that is a very important point, that we should learn to appreciate the work of God in one another. It would greatly help to knit us together the more we concentrate on looking on what God has wrought in each other, and appreciate each other accordingly. Of course, we can only appreciate what is there.

CB That is what is meant by appropriation of each other?

AJG Yes, I think so.

AY Would you say that things are opening up and developing more with Rebecca? The servant asks her here if there is room in her father’s house and she said to him, “There is straw and also much provender with us, also room to lodge.” As it were, she is ready to give more than what is even asked, as a result of the refreshment that is given in verse 21, in drawing the water for the camels.

AJG Yes, I think so. And that is a very great thing, because in the things of God we have to make constant progress and develop and enlarge, there is no such thought as stagnation in the things of God. And we are living in days of recovery and there is to be still further enlargement and development so that we might be led into all the truth; and that requires a good deal of readiness on our part for displacement, so that there may be more room for the Spirit.

MC He enquires her pedigree as soon as the camels had drunk enough. What would you say about that?

AJG I suppose it is to find out whether she can give account of herself. He did not ask for his own purpose, because he had already stipulated that the one who presented certain features should be the one, and Rebecca exactly presented them, so that he did not need to enquire for his own sake. But what he wanted to do was to bring out whether she knew her own genealogy. It is a very important matter for us as to whether we can trace our genealogy, whether we recognise ourselves as born of God and of Christ’s own order, because if we do, then we shall be more ready to take our place as of the assembly as suitably and worthily of it, instead of being occupied with ourselves as sinners saved by grace. It is a question whether we know how to take account of our genealogy.

LBr So you would say the Spirit likes to hear us speak?

AJG Yes, quite so.

EMe He decks her with these jewels before He enquired?

AJG As a matter of fact, he does not. He brings them out but he does not put them on her until after she had answered. We might not notice that in reading the chapter. You find in verse 22, it says that “the man took a gold ring of half a shekel weight, and two bracelets for her hands, ten shekels weight of gold, and said, “Whose daughter art thou”? When he gives an account of it, he says in verse 47: “I asked her and said, Whose daughter art thou? And she said, The daughter of Bethuel, Nahor’s son, whom Milcah bore to him. And I put the ring on her nose, and the bracelets on her hands.” So that while he brought them out before he asked the question he did not put them on her until she had answered the question.

RS I was noticing in the same verse that it says, And it came to pass when the camels had drunk enough, that the man took the gold ring and so on. It was when the camels had drunk enough. What would you say about that?

AJG I suppose it stresses that particular service. When she finished that particular service which she had undertaken, which was so gratifying to the Spirit, now He is proposing to adorn her. But at the same time He first asks this question which she answers. She says, “I am the daughter of Bethuel the son of Milcah, whom she bore to Nahor.” That stresses the subjective side of things. She is the daughter of Bethuel, the son of Milcah, whom she bore to Nahor. Why should she say the son of Milcah, that was Nahor’s wife, “whom she bore to Nahor”, why should she say that? And as a matter of fact, Milcah, Nahor’s wife, was related to Abraham just as Nahor himself was related to Abraham. So on both sides, paternally and maternally, she is of the right lineage.

CB We have the relationship before we have the liberty of that relationship?

AJG Yes.

AY Would you say then that the Spirit is now concerned to bring out the truth, and then to adorn the saints in moral suitability to Christ?

AJG Yes, if we understand that we are heavenly, and of God, of Christ’s own order, surely we would be concerned to be marked by the features proper to those who are such. And that is a question of features that can be produced by the Spirit.

TBl The adornment is all gold. What is the significance?

AJG Well, at this point it stresses the gold. I suppose gold usually refers to what is of God. But later on we find the servant brought forth silver articles and gold articles and clothing. So that there is more variety there. But this is stressing what is of God. I think it refers possibly to the feature of spiritual discernment, which the adornment of the nose might perhaps suggest - the feature of discrimination. But then the bracelets on her hands would be to draw attention to the pleasing character of her activities, really her work were of God.

MSS The camels are greatly stressed after verse 22, where it says they had drunk enough, for she says in verse 25, “There is straw and also much provender with us” before she says there is room to lodge. In other words, the camels seem to be first in her mind. Would all that suggest that we have to come to it that there is absolutely no power outside of the Spirit to enter into these things?

AJG I am sure that is right, and not only for the understanding of them but then to move in them, and that is what is so important in the assembly, because it is not a question of moving in these things as separate individuals, it is a question of learning to move together as one, and that is what is so important.

Isaac “lifted up his eyes and behold; camels were coming” - it is this movement that attracts his attention.

LAC I was wondering if her reply in that way was very intelligent, showing that she recognised that the servant and the camels could not be separated. That if he is to lodge he must have provision and room for the camels as well. Would that indicate intelligence on the part of a believer who recognises that progress cannot be made unless the Spirit is depended on for power?

AJG Yes, I think it would. He is to be relied upon for direction, to guide us into the truth, and also the power to move in relation to the guiding. I think really that is one of our greatest needs, we are not without light, we are not without the guidance of the Spirit, and we have a certain appreciation of it in our minds, and I am not speaking in any way disparagingly, but I think our greatest need is the power to answer to it, and to answer to it together in assembly.

AAT Why is the word “wife” used in the last verse?

AJG She became his wife, that is the thought of union. The idea of a wife is that she has been united to her husband and henceforth she is one with him, so she is thoroughly with him in all his interests. And that is what is so important in the assembly, that we are brought, by the Spirit, to the point of conscious union with Christ, and then it is a simple matter to have part in the service of God, because paramount before the heart of Christ is that His Father should be served, and He wants the assembly with Him in it.

RS Would you say then that the silver and gold articles and the clothing suggest the thought of suitability to Him, in order to be presented to Him in union?

AJG Yes, I would think so, and I think it conveys the thought of wealth in a general sense as well, because it says, Silver articles and gold articles. It does not say exactly whether they were for adornment or not. It is the general thought of wealth, I think, and then there is clothing.

LAC Were not the features there which the Spirit could clothe in that sense. She is said to have been of a beautiful countenance and a virgin, what is inward and outward corresponding in a sense, and then the Spirit coming in to seal it all as approving it?

AJG Yes, quite so. I believe we need to concentrate on this thought of spirituality, and then movement together in the Spirit in answer to the guidance of the Spirit, because, as I say, we are not lacking in light, but what we are lacking in is the power to answer to the light, and to answer to it together.

MC Is there not a point of unification seen in the Spirit and Rebecca at this point?

AJG I believe the camels rather represent that, because although it is “camels” in the plural, meaning that there is abundance of power, they are regarded as an entity, so that Isaac lifts up his eyes and sees the camels. And I believe that just represents the power there is in the Spirit to unify the saints that we may move together as one in the power of the Spirit.

SW What is to be noticed in Isaac bringing Rebecca to his mother’s tent?

AJG It is evidently just a provisional setting. That is, it is not the thought of our being taken to be with Christ in glory, it is a question of what the Lord has down here in the assembly just provisionally; a tent is a provisional idea.

SC Because of the answer that is given by the maiden in verse 47, would you say that pre-eminence is given to divine Persons by the servant in verse 48?

AJG You are referring to the answer that Rebecca gave in verse 47, and then the effect on the servant, “I stooped, and bowed down before Jehovah,” and so on? Quite so. That would show that the worship of God, as Paul says, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,” is in view all through, and the servant is doing it.

SH Would you say that we see the end that is before the Spirit in Isaac?

AJG Well, according to this chapter. This chapter does not carry us farther than the assembly typically being brought to Christ. So that it is dealing really with what we speak of as the first part of the meeting. But then, what that has in mind is that union with Christ, as consciously enjoyed, should provide that which the Lord can use in the service of God.

HLH There is a diffidence on the part of some who otherwise have liberty to address the Spirit, as to what part He has up to that point in the morning meeting, feeling that it is, of course, the Lord’s Supper, and He has a very pronounced place. But is there liberty to address the Spirit up to that point in the meeting?

AJG I think that is just where we need spirituality. That is what we have all got to develop in. I believe these questions will find an answer just as we develop in the needed spirituality. It is a question of the liberty that the Spirit will Himself afford, where there are the conditions for it.

LAC In connection with what you mention about spirituality, do you mean what we arrive at intuitively as we move on with the Lord and with the Spirit, or have you in mind that we come more and more under the influence of light as is brought out in the revelation of God?

AJG Yes. I do not know that it is a matter of what is intuitive, because that excludes the thought of teaching, but it is a question of being more sensitive to the Holy Spirit’s movements. And I think this matter of addressing the Spirit, and the part He is to have in the actual service, is a particularly sensitive and spiritual matter. That is all I had in mind.

RS Would you say just there that ministry is given in order that we might develop in spirituality, and we get to know the Spirit and get a touch from Him as to what to do at any given time?

AJG Exactly, so that we move under spiritual impulse and are supported in it. What the Spirit supports is certainly of God, what He does not support is not of God; either it is not of God in itself, or it is not of God at that moment because there is not the spiritual state for it.

RAE It refers in Galatians to walking by the Spirit and living by the Spirit, is that spirituality?

AJG Yes, I think so.

EBa Would you say something about verse 28?

AJG It is all in keeping with what we said previously as to her agility and activity, but what one was specially seeking to concentrate on is first the well and Rebecca in relation to the well, with her pitcher, and then the camels, and then the man. Because in verse 30 it says, When Laban came up to the man he was standing by the camels by the well, as though the man is thoroughly committed to the camels and the well. The three are inseparable. If the service of the man is to be fully known we need the well and Rebecca and her pitcher first, and then the camels.

MSS Is that connected with the spiritual state in verse 61 where it brings in her maids and it says, they rode upon the camels?

AJG Yes, exactly. “And Rebecca arose, and her maids, and they rode upon the camels and followed the man.” So that it is the full thought now of the assembly for Christ. The feminine thought accentuated - Rebecca and her maids. It is the idea of the assembly secured in feminine affections for Christ, what ought to result from our taking the Supper. But now it is a question of moving together in the power of the Spirit as towards Christ.

MSS Would it be right to say that the reference to the servant here as a Man might stress the Person of the Spirit?

AJG Well, I think so. It is evidently a more personal presentation than either the well or the camels.

SP Would you say a word now on the verse in Ephesians?

AJG Well, just a minute more on this chapter, because I do not think there is a great deal of difficulty about Ephesians, save that that only confirms and enlarges what we are saying as to the great need, first of all, of spirituality, and then of the support and leading of the Spirit right through the service. It says, “Rebecca arose, and her maids, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man. And the servant took Rebecca, and went away.” That is a most important thing, that Rebecca and her maids, having arisen and availed themselves of the camels, the servant now takes her on. The servant took Rebecca and went his way.

CB When Isaac lifted up his eyes, and behold camels were coming, and then it says Rebecca lifted up her eyes and saw Isaac and she sprang off the camel, would that be the point in the morning meeting when the saints are together in the feminine idea for Christ to get His portion?

AJG I think so, and it should come in early, should it not, after the Supper has been taken? It is a question of whether there is the spiritual power for it.

RAE Would verse 61 bear out what you have been saying? Not only are the camels and the man there now, but the camels are being ridden and the man is being followed.

AJG Yes, exactly, and I think it is a most affecting thing that it says, “Isaac lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold;” as though as he caught sight of it, his heart was moved. I believe there is nothing so affects the heart of Christ as to see the saints moving together as one towards Himself in the power of the Spirit. Because it is really the assembly, I mean, the thing is there as an entity. It is not a lot of separate brethren with their own thoughts, but it is one entity moving in the Spirit’s power towards Christ.

LAC You are viewing this as outside of what is connected with wilderness conditions, are you not? We have never viewed the camels as referring to anything else before.

AJG Well, it is power for movement, of course, and it is movement, you might say, out of the wilderness. We come to break bread in the wilderness and the Lord comes in to us there, but it is a question of moving out.

WH So Rebecca and the maidens are available now for the servant to take them on?

AJG Yes, quite so.

HLH At the point where it says that the servant took Rebecca and went away Isaac comes into view immediately. Does it suggest that at that point the servant is nearing the end of his mission and what is before him is nearing its climax?

AJG Quite so, and, of course, the Lord comes before us in the actual emblems. He loves to draw near and it is that that quickens the affections of the saints. So that all this ought not to take long in the actual meeting. But this picture of the camels, the fact that it is the camels that attract Isaac’s attention, is, I believe, to stress that thing, that it is a question of the saints moving together as one in the power of the Spirit.

SH As it is said, Those that are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.

AJG Yes, that in a sense is an individual idea, because sons are so many persons. But the assembly is an entity and hence it says we are all baptised in the power of one Spirit into one body and have all been made to drink of one Spirit. The oneness is stressed.

MSS I wondered if the thought of coming into this, as you say, quickly, would be suggested in the statement that the servant took Rebecca. It does not say he took Rebecca and her maids; as though the bride has now come into view.

AJG Well, that is the thought, of course. Rebecca is the great subject. The fact that her maids are brought in is just, I think, to accentuate that idea of what is feminine.

AAT Isaac lifts up his eyes and sees the camels coming and then Rebecca asks the question and the servant says, That is my master. Would that be a certain point in connection with the service of God, “That is my Master”?

AJG One does not like to tie things down too much, because in the service, if things are really in the hands of the Spirit, there is great variety, but it is just, of course, that at that point the Lord is everything. It is my Master; the Spirit is making everything of Christ, later on attention is going to be directed to the Father and then everything will be made of the Father, but for the moment everything is being made of Christ, “That is my Master!”

LAC Would the suggestion here in verse 61, referring to it again in connection with the servant taking Rebecca and going away, be that the Holy Spirit is claiming the assembly for Christ? The assembly is never said to be for the Spirit, is it?

AJG No, the Spirit has come in to serve, to serve the Father and the Son, and to sustain the whole position in response to the way in which the Father is known in the Son.

LAC But here in this chapter in the beginning of that service there is what is brought in by way of refreshment for Himself. Might that not indicate some liberty on our part to refer to the Spirit in the very beginning of the meeting?

AJG Well, if the Spirit affords the liberty, all well and good, but it is the Lord’s Supper, it is the Lord that is before us as we come together.

RAF You referred to a point where everything is made of the Lord, would we make room for that after the Supper? I mean, would there be a period in which we would make room for the Spirit to engage us distinctively with the Lord?

AJG I think so. Not so much what He has done, but Himself.

RAE There would not be any undue haste in moving to the Father, would there?

AJG No, quite so, because it says, “Then she took the veil, and covered herself. And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done. And Isaac led her into his mother Sarah’s tent, and he took Rebecca and she became his wife and he loved her.” So that all that is to suggest what Isaac found in Rebecca, and what she found in him, you might say. She became his wife, thoroughly united to him.

MSS Would you say that being led into his mother Sarah’s tent would not be on the same level as the assembly, being the bride of Christ? I was wondering if it had an allusion to Israel?

AJG I think dispensationally it has an allusion to the saints at the beginning, at Pentecost, that they really are brought into the place that Israel had forfeited by its crucifixion of Christ. But I think in a more general way you can see that a tent is a kind of provisional idea, and therefore fits in with the present moment where we can enjoy union with Christ in the power of the Spirit before we are actually taken to be with Christ. It is a provisional position for the moment.

MSS I mean, we sometimes do take that as referring to the Lord being compensated for the loss of Israel, by having the assembly. Would that be on a lower level than His having the bride?

AJG Oh, well, the compensation is the bride. It is what the assembly is to Him as a bride really and as His wife. Of course, anything the Lord has in the assembly as compensation for what He has lost in Israel is not the highest view of the assembly, is that what you mean?

MSS Yes, I was thinking of it in relation to the service, whether we would bring it in or whether it would be better to omit it?

AJG I question very much whether it is wise to be too ready to say what ought and what ought not to be done. We need to be guided, of course, by the truth, by right teaching, but subject to that we need to be guided by spiritual sensibilities at the moment.

LAC That is very helpful, the thought of the truth and what is spiritual being subject to it. Would that not be a help to us too in relation to understanding the truth as taught in scripture as to the Holy Spirit’s objective place, whether or not He is to be served as an Object, whether in song or praise or worship?

AJG Well, quite so. He is guiding us into all the truth, and we have just got to be patient so as to be helped in relation to it. Now then we should just refer to Ephesians, because the verse there says, “Through him,” that is, through Christ, “we have both,” that is literally, Jew and Gentile, “access by one Spirit to the Father.” So that while Christ is the Mediator and no one comes to the Father but by Him, this scripture brings in also that in actual access, the Spirit has His place, and the Spirit as one Spirit, that is unifying the saints. The allusion, of course, is to Jew and Gentile as made one in the assembly, but the stress is on one Spirit.

LAC What is the force of the expression, through Christ, “Through him”?

AJG Oh, it must be through Him, no one comes unto the Father, the Lord says, but by Me. He is the Mediator, we cannot have to do with the Father except through Christ, we cannot have to do with the Father in any less way. That is very encouraging, it must be through Him, and that means that we are brought into the most intimate place of relationship with Him. But also on our side there is the need of the Spirit.

LAC Would you say a little more as to the Spirit as the power for approach?

AJG We cannot go by ourselves, we need the power of the Spirit.

RS So that it calls for dependence?

AJG It does, and the need of spiritual conditions. There is the need of spirituality and that will make room for the Spirit’s ready service to us.

HN Would the Lord’s priestly service be involved?

AJG Yes, I suppose so, because in actual fact, the service of the assembly at the present time is carried on in the midst of unholy conditions, and we are not ourselves free of the flesh, although its activities should be rendered nugatory by the Spirit. But that fact remains, that the service of God is being carried on while we are still surrounded by conditions of unholiness, and therefore the idea of the priestly support of Christ, I suppose, rightly enters into it.

LAC Is the Spirit’s support ever of a priestly character?

AJG It is, of course, because He is the Holy Spirit. When we speak of “priestly,” we are concerned about holiness; what is suitable to the presence of God.

LAC He is said in Romans to make intercession. Is that priestly?

AJG Yes. On the other hand, Christ is the High Priest. He is the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, so that we must not confuse ideas. But if you say, Is there anything priestly connected with the Holy Spirit’s service, I would say yes, because He is the Holy Spirit.

JM There is nothing less in the mind of God than that Christ should be formed in us by the Spirit?

AJG Exactly. That is the great thought, the assembly as the body of Christ, as the woman for the Man, that she is in every way the answer to Him; and then being what she is, she can become His wife, and He can take pleasure in her as His wife.