LOCAL ASSEMBLY CONDITIONS
LOCAL ASSEMBLY CONDITIONS
AJG It has often been said that this part of Luke’s gospel has in mind the conditions found in local gatherings. The chapter begins with the Lord sending out seventy, which is a hint of Paul’s ministry, that is, it is something additional to the ministry of the twelve and bringing in greater spiritual fulness, and the ministry was to take shape in places. So that it speaks of every city and place where He Himself was about to come. So it helps, I think, to read this passage in that light, that the Lord has in mind the conditions that He would find in localities. That is that, first of all there is joy in the consciousness of being heavenly, and in the sovereignty of the Father. Whatever measure of blessing or power connected with the Lord’s name might be proved, the great thing is to be kept in the sense that we are heavenly, and our names are written there; and that leads the Lord to introduce the thought of what we speak of as the economy, at least to suggest it. The response to God in any locality is to be in the sense and enjoyment of the glory of divine grace, all that lies in the sovereignty of the Father. And then the parable of the good Samaritan is, of course, intended to emphasize that the spirit of care, in the Spirit of Christ, must be found in each locality, involving love that can increase more and more. As the Samaritan says, “Whatsoever thou spendest more,” as though no limit is placed on the expenditure of love. And then in Mary, of course, we have the feature of the desire to acquire spiritual intelligence, as characteristically sitting at the feet of Jesus. I thought we might be helped together as considering the scripture on those lines. The seventy are somewhat elated, or at any rate, rejoice in the experience that even the demons were subject to them through Christ’s name, but the Lord intimates that that is a comparatively minor matter.
AAT Would you liken the ministry of the seventy to Paul’s ministry?
AJG Yes. It was what was additional to the ministry of the twelve, and the seventy is a suggestion, I suppose, of great spiritual fulness. So that Luke, as we know, was a great adherent of Paul and imbibed his ministry, and supports it in his ministry, so there is a hint in the sending out of the seventy of Paul’s ministry which was to take shape in cities and places.
AAT What is the difference between a city and a place?
AJG Well, every place is not a city, of course, but it is to take shape in localities. Some of those localities may be cities, that is, centres of population and centres of human wickedness, but God would have His testimony even in such places.
CB I would like to know why Satan is brought in here as falling out of heaven?
AJG I thought the Lord was looking forward to the time when he will be cast out of heaven. He said, “I beheld Satan as lightning falling out of heaven.” That is, the moment is coming when he will be dismissed as quickly as lightning, and displaced from the position of power that he is occupying at the moment. And the Lord refers to that as showing that the victory over Satan is assured, but He says we do not need to rejoice in that, “rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
CBl Is it divine grace and sovereignty that has written our names in heaven?
AJG That is exactly it. We could not write our own names there.
HLH When the Lord sent the seventy out He said nothing of this great power they would experience, but He said rather He had sent them as lambs in the midst of wolves. Would that suggest the spirit in which the service would be carried out, and the power that was behind it?
AJG I think so, and the outward weakness and defencelessness in which the service would be carried out. At the same time He does say, “Into whatsoever city ye may enter and they receive you, eat what is set before you, and heal the sick in it.” So that He gave them power to heal the sick, at any rate.
HN Do you think the seventy were in danger of falling?
AJG I do not know that there is anything especially to suggest that, only I think it is a voice to us, that even if the Lord gave great blessing in the gospel, for instance, because of the power of His Name, yet, we are not to make unduly much of that, we are to rejoice rather that our names are written in heaven.
CBl Yet we are given to realize that the ministry was followed with power?
AJG Yes, quite so, but the first thing the Lord has in mind in a locality, I think, is to secure praise to the Father. So that it says, “In the same hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit and said, I praise thee Father,” He told them to rejoice, and then the Lord sets the example, He rejoices.
LAC Would not the Lord’s reference here to heaven be in keeping with what would come out in Paul, special emphasis on what is heavenly and the fact that we belong there?
AJG Yes, it would. “Our commonwealth,” he says, “has its existence in the heavens.” So that the more we get the idea of that into our minds and souls, the more it is likely to elevate us in our outlook and conduct. It will dignify us and at the same time subdue us, because all is of grace. We could never give ourselves a heavenly position, or write our names there.
RS Are there not two things we are liable to fall into in connection with service? When there is success we are likely to be elated and when there is no success we are likely to be disheartened?
AJG Yes, I think we get that in the gospels. The seventy show the danger of elation and John Baptist in prison shows the danger of despondency.
VB What did the Lord refer to when He said, “Thou hast hid these things...” what things did He refer to there?
AJG I suppose it is the things that are involved in our names being written in heaven.
HN How do you view the babes here?
AJG I think it is how the world regards the saints; the great men of the world would regard themselves as wise and prudent, and in contrast to those the saints are just nothing, they are babes. It may well be taken home to ourselves that it is well for us to maintain that attitude of mind and spirit, but not that we are to be babes in Christ, we are to grow up, of course.
AAT As suitable material of the assembly?
AJG Yes, quite so.
CB We are to understand that the Father is the One who has ordered all the circumstances and therefore we should be a people rejoicing. “In the same hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit.”
AJG Yes, exactly. The first thing to mark a locality is that there should be response to God in joy, before any other features of service are taken on; that was the first thing that the Lord was concerned about.
EMs Why does the Lord in addressing the Father address Him in this way, “Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth”?
AJG That fits in with Paul’s ministry because it reminds us of the third chapter of Ephesians, “I bow my knees to the Father... of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named.” That is, there is the wide expanse of things that is before the Father, and then the assembly’s special place in that wide expanse, which the Lord really hints at, because He says to His disciples, privately, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see, for I say to you that many prophets and kings have desired to see the things which ye behold and did not see them,” and so on.
AAT In our day, that is, in Paul’s ministry we have been taught to address the Father, have we not, as God and Father, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, but here I notice that simply Father is used. Is it out of place for us to address the Father as “Father”?
AJG No, I think not. We have the Spirit of adoption whereby we cry “Abba, Father.” That is, Father, twice.
AAT In Mr. Darby’s hymns many times the word “Father” alone is used, is it not?
AJG Yes, and we join in heartily, and you feel you can take it up in the Spirit. It may be that it needs a certain power to do it in thanksgiving, and it may be that it is well that we more often commence by saying, “God and Father” because that preserves a spirit of reverence. At the same time, I have no doubt, we have liberty to address Him simply as “Father.”
SW Is it not the expression of intimacy?
AJG Yes, and affection, too.
MSS Would you say that in this scripture the Lord is almost directing attention away from Himself and His Name, seeking to exalt the Father in the affections of the saints?
AJG It would look like that. Of course, we know well that when it comes to the service of God in the assembly that has to be preceded by the Lord getting His own place in the affections of the saints, because the service is to be by the assembly under the impulse of Christ, and therefore with a view to that the Lord must be established freshly in the affections of the saints first. But then the Lord is not dealing with that now. He is dealing with the thought of the service of God in the locality.
RAE Would you say that a sense of our association with Christ would bring to pass this rejoicing in spirit, and would set us free to address the Father?
AJG I think so, and especially the sense that all is of the Father’s sovereignty. “Thus has it been well pleasing in thy sight,” the Lord says.
MSS There is a verse in Colossians: “Giving thanks to the Father, who has made us fit for sharing the portion of the saints in light.”
AJG Yes, quite so, though that does not necessarily contemplate the fulness of assembly service, I think that is to be characteristic of us at all times. But this is what is to characterise a locality, that we rejoice in this light and particularly in the sense of the Father’s sovereignty, what has been well pleasing in His sight.
SW Would “Lord of the heaven and of the earth” convey the idea of His supreme authority?
AJG God is supreme in authority, of course. He is “the King of the ages,” 1 Timothy 1: 17, “the King of eternity,” Jeremiah 10: 10. But it is just brought in, I think, to show the vastness of the range of blessing that He has under His hand, in order to stress the distinctiveness and speciality of the place that He has in His sovereignty given to us of the assembly.
EMe And would the idea of “names” signify that each one has been thought of individually by the Father?
AJG Yes, it would. So that Ephesians opens up the thought of sons before it introduces the thought of the assembly. That is, Ephesians introduces the thought of the saints in their individuality as blessed, before it brings in the thought of the assembly as blessed. At the same time, of course, it is the same family, it is the same standard of blessing.
LAC In connection with addressing the Father, should we not be free to address Him in the same way in which the Lord Jesus addressed Him when here? He says to Him in John 17, “Righteous Father” and “Holy Father.”
AJG All that, I think, just shows the liberty and variety of expression that the Holy Spirit would produce in us. The Lord had a reason for saying “Holy Father” when He did say it, and “Righteous Father,” and the more we are sensitive to the Spirit the more we shall be able to vary our expressions: not as trying to, but as sensitive to the Spirit’s touch.
AAT But we would not say, “My Father,” in public service, would we? It is “Father.”
AJG I think so, “Father,” as you say. When one of the disciples in the next chapter asked Him to teach them to pray, He says, “When ye pray, say, Father, thy name be hallowed” and so on.
AY Would you open up the 22nd verse for us a little more? “All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is but the Father, and who the Father is but the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son is pleased to reveal Him.”
AJG I think the Lord is introducing the thought of what we call the economy, although He does not mention the Holy Spirit, but He is introducing the thought of the economy, that is to say, an arrangement involving mutual relationships which divine Persons have deliberately entered into, with a view to the counsels of blessing for man, which God has formed, being made good. And all that is to impress us with love, divine love. So the Lord says, “All things have been delivered to me by my Father,” so that evidently places the Father as supreme and the Lord in a subordinate place, although a glorious place, but nevertheless a subordinate place because all things are delivered to Him. And then He says, “No one knows who the Son is but the Father” - that brings in inscrutability and reminds us that our knowledge of divine Persons is limited to the light in which they are pleased to reveal themselves. So all this is stressing the idea, I think, of an economy involving the movements of love of the Godhead with a view to the blessing of man. And the more we get a sense of that the more it draws out the spirit of worship in the saints.
WH Would it show too the greatness of the Person of Christ?
AJG It does indeed; it guards the greatness of His Person.
MSS You distinguish then in what we get here “the Son,” and what we have in Matthew 16 where He is spoken of as being revealed to Peter.
AJG Yes, quite so. This is a question of the Person of the Son, who He is. The Father had revealed His Son to Peter and God revealed His Son in Paul, but then that is not a question of who the Lord is essentially, it is a question of Himself as Man in the position which He has in the economy, as revealing the Father.
RS Would you not say that there has been as much revealed, so far as God has been pleased to reveal Himself, as will serve us for all eternity?
AJG Yes, I would. Obviously the creature cannot compass God, we have to remember that, that we are limited in our knowledge of God to the way in which He is revealed. He has revealed Himself in a most wonderful way, that we might know Him in His love and in wonderful nearness. But then it is morally right that there should be something beyond us or else God would not be God.
LAC In approaching God then we approach three Persons, and would we not approach in the light in which they have been revealed? Would it be then, in speaking to God we would have the Father in mind, and not three Persons at once?
AJG Well, it just depends, I think. In a normal way in speaking to God we would have the Father in mind. It says, “To us there is one God, the Father.” On the other hand I think there are times when, in thinking of God, we would have in our minds the whole Godhead as acting together in wonderful unity, although in that unity the Son and the Spirit are known by us in a relatively subordinate position.
HLH The Lord’s message to His disciples was, “Go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father, and your Father, and to my God and your God.” Would those two different presentations of it suggest what you have said as to the Father being in mind and God inclusive of all three divine Persons?
AJG I am not sure whether I would regard the expression “My God and your God” as inclusive of all the three Persons, but there are certain passages, for instance, “That God may be all in all” and “To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages” and “God is a Spirit” and so on, where I think we may rightly in our thoughts include all three Persons. But whether you would do that in “My God and your God,” I am not sure, because it is the Lord speaking as Man in relation to His God, I think the thought is that we apprehend Him as Father, that is, we reach the blessing in that light, and then the One known as Father is apprehended by us as God, but it is the same Person, I would think.
HLH To preserve a reverence as you say.
AJG Yes, quite so, and a sense that it is God Himself who has moved out in this way towards His creatures.
MSS Would the use of the expression “the Godhead,” in Colossians suggest that that thought is brought within our compass?
AJG The fulness is brought within our range in a Man, in Christ. All the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily.
RS So the same truth applies in regard to the Lord as in regard to the Father. That is to say, our affections for divine Persons are always reverential; however close and rich our blessings are, we have always to remember that they are divine Persons and we are their creatures?
AJG Quite so.
HOE Would the first verse in Hebrews bear out what you are saying, God has spoken in these last days in Son?
AJG Exactly, I think that “God” would refer to the whole Godhead, because it is “in Son.” That is, He has spoken, not only in that character but in that Person. The One who has spoken is the Son, He is God.
RS What about that scripture, “God is one, and the Mediator of God and men one”?
AJG Well, that is always good for us to remember, because dwelling, as we do sometimes, on the three Persons of the Godhead, we may be unconsciously a little in danger of losing the sense that God is one, and we have got to maintain that. It is, of course, really inscrutable, and we have to leave it at that, but maintain in our souls that God is one.
HN All this blessing flourishes in localities?
AJG That is the idea, that this passage has in mind, what the Lord, when He comes, will find in a locality, as it says in verse 1, He “sent them two and two before his face into every city and place where he himself was about to come.” And then in chapter 11 we have, “Who among you shall have a friend, and shall go to him at midnight and say to him, Friend, let me have three loaves, since a friend of mine on a journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him.” That is what governs this passage, that the Lord is coming to a locality to see what the fruit of the ministry is, and is it possible that in a locality it will have to be said, We have nothing to set before Him. Now the Lord is setting out what He wants to find in a locality. First, the service of God on this high level, then the spirit of care showing itself in love that will go to any extent, and then the deliberate desire to acquire spiritual intelligence.
HLH The Lord’s instructions to His disciples are intended, would you not say, to bring about the condition that is presented in Mary?
AJG That is one of the features that He is looking for.
LBr The Lord coming to a locality is a present thing, what He does now?
AJG Yes, quite so.
AT Would you say it was a climax the Lord had reached in verse 21? It says, “In the same hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit.”
AJG Well, the Lord had just said, “rejoice that your names are written in the heavens,” and it seems to me that having said that, it is as though the Lord would set the example - “In the same hour, Jesus in rejoiced spirit,” and then spoke, as a result of His rejoicing, and said, “I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth,” and so on. He praises Him on account of His sovereignty, “that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them to babes.”
WSW There is a verse in Psalm 16, “The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places, yea, I have a goodly heritage,” would it agree with that?
AJG Quite so, you could apply that in a general way, because certainly the lines have fallen to us in pleasant places. The portion that God has allotted to us, which is the idea of the lines falling, is certainly a pleasant one.
CB Would “the mystery” hidden throughout the ages in God, be beyond what the twelve had?
AJG I think so.
SP You said that these features that you are speaking of here are to be seen in localities. Have you in mind that there needs to be great exercise with us that these features might be seen at the present moment?
AJG Yes, quite so. That is the idea, because you never know at what time the Lord might come, I mean come in the sense of taking account of a particular place, as to conditions found there, what is the level of our response to God on Lord’s Day morning? How much liberty is there? How much are we really in the enjoyment of all that He has in His sovereignty bestowed upon us? And then, how much care is there for one another? How much is love in evidence and really being expended? And then, how much is there a real desire to acquire spiritual intelligence? because the service of God must not only be in affection but in intelligence.
AAT And that care is not necessarily exercised on Lord’s Day morning, it is a weekly matter?
AJG Quite so, it is a matter going on all the time, because the assembly is a great vessel of love. The human body which the assembly is likened to, is a wonderful illustration of love. That is, every member in the body is unselfish and contributing to the good of the whole, and many members of the body carry on their service without ever being seen or ever being recognised in any way, yet they go on. And God has given us each one a body in order that we might be reminded that His great idea, is this wonderful vessel characterised by love, because He Himself is love, and therefore He delights in seeing it.
SP The care of the innkeeper is very important here. Do you think that we would be ever able to spend out this two-pence?
AJG Well, the Lord contemplates that we not only spend the two-pence but a good deal more. He says, “Whatsoever thou spendest more,” as though to say, I give you a free hand, you can spend as much as you like.
SP Then there should be greater exercise in relation to the care of saints in this way?
AJG Yes, exactly. The Samaritan did not make any demand on the man, he brought him all that he needed. He went to him and had compassion and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, he brought, it all with him.
CBl What does the two pence suggest in Christianity?
AJG I suppose it is what we have in the Spirit of Christ. We receive the Spirit and what we have in the Spirit is there, it is sufficient, only the Lord leaves us free to go beyond the bare minimum. Two pence evidently was enough to carry the man over if necessary, but the Lord would, so to speak, say, I do not want you to limit yourself to the bare minimum, “whatsoever thou spendest more.”
CB There is no limit and that is the way love is ministered?
AJG Quite so.
AAT What does the innkeeper indicate?
AJG I have no doubt he refers to the Holy Spirit, but I think particularly the Holy Spirit in the character of the Spirit of Christ in the saints. That is to say, the care is actually expended by the saints one for another.
BLW He set him on his own beast and brought him to the inn. What do we see in that?
AJG Well, I suppose that is another allusion to the Holy Spirit because it is a question of the Spirit as power, “Set him on his own beast,” It is a question now of a man who has been recovered and set up in a new power, so that he will not fall amongst thieves again.
WSW Would you say that was “carrying power”?
AJG Yes, quite so.
WH What is the force of being “moved with compassion”?
AJG Well, it is the opposite to the lawyer and the priest and the Levite. I mean, the lawyer is a legal man, and the priest and the Levite are official, but moved with compassion means that there is feeling, genuine feeling. That is, if any of the saints get into spiritual difficulties you are not hard on them, but you know that you yourself have been in spiritual difficulties in the past.
BLW Does his “own beast” involve the love of God?
AJG I think it is more the thought of the Spirit in the believer recognised as the power now. The Spirit, of course, would hold the believer in relation to Christ - to be to Another - and that becomes power in the working out of it. It becomes power, the Spirit is greater than the flesh, greater than the world, the Spirit is God Himself. And therefore if we will listen to the Spirit in His promptings we shall find that we have power to fulfil every righteous obligation, and we are not overcome.
SC What would the oil and wine represent in our day?
AJG Oh, it is just the way that love would serve. I have no doubt all these are allusions in some sense to the Spirit. The oil would bring in healing and the wine would bring in joy and stimulation. It is just a question of how we may serve one another in the Spirit.
AY It says here, “Pouring in oil and wine,” would that be suggestive of the unlimited way in which love would seek to serve?
AJG Quite so, it is not done grudgingly.
HAL There is first the service of the good Samaritan, I suppose that is the Lord, and then you say, it is the service of the saints?
AJG Yes, the innkeeper, which I think is the Spirit of Christ working through the saints, because the spirit of care actually works out in the saints in our care one for another.
HAL So the inn is suggestive of the local assembly then?
AJG Yes, the circle of the saints where we are cared for. It is a temporary provision.
HAL But nevertheless it has in view our spiritual advancement, that we are going to find our own feet.
AJG Yes, quite so.
HLH The word at the end of the section, “Go and do thou likewise;” while spoken to a man who was justifying himself, yet can we not take that to heart as desiring to emulate the Spirit of Christ?
AJG Yes, I think so. I think it is very suggestive that the Lord says, “Whatsoever thou spendest more,” as though he would say, On this line there is no limitation placed as to how far we may go in caring for one another in love.
HAL Is not that quite consistent with the character of this gospel and Paul’s ministry?
AJG Quite so. Paul said to the Corinthians, “Though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved,” so that he was moving on this line of “whatsoever thou spendest more.”
JHH Would that also be seen in what Paul says in Romans 16? He says, “Salute Prisca and Aquila, my fellow-workmen in Christ Jesus, who for my life staked their own neck” and so on. Would that be an example of two who are moving on together in the line of spending more?
AJG Yes, it would. The epistles are very interesting as giving us tangible illustrations. Phoebe is another illustration, she was a servant of the assembly; Gaius was another, and so on.
EMe The details of this care, binding up the wounds and pouring in oil and so on is love active, you would say, in serving one whose name was written in heaven?
AJG That is the idea I am sure, and it is not only love active but it is love that is tender and skilful, because after all, you need a certain amount of skill and considerable tenderness to bind up the wounds of one who is half dead.
EMs The priest and the Levite happened to be on the spot but the good Samaritan was journeying, what would you say as to that?
AJG It is just that love is not casual, love is deliberate. The Samaritan as he journeyed, it was a deliberate movement on his part.
RAE It says, “Seeing him” - I think you have been emphasising that. It says in John, “Whoso... see his brother having need.” In this exercise of care as you are bringing before us, is it not important that we should increasingly have our eyes open to take account of the saints?
AJG Yes, I am sure that is right. And then the next section we come to, the beginning of chapter 11, emphasises the feature of prayer, and of praying specifically, knowing what to ask for.
MSS Apparently he was not very long with the man, he left on the morrow. Would that suggest that the Lord is looking to the saints to take on this matter of care quickly?
AJG I think so. When we are young believers, perhaps, or at certain times of our history, we may prove the Lord’s own personal interest in a peculiar way, but in the main, while that interest never ceases, and it is well for us to cultivate what is personal between ourselves and the Lord. He places it on the saints to care for one another.
LAC Is it not that here, in working out the exercises as to the local company, it would be found that where the Spirit is free these varied supplies would be to hand and persons too to dispense them. It is not merely a matter of activity but of persons having something to bring forward which is needed at an appropriate time?
AJG Yes, that is right, involving as we have said, a certain amount of skill and tenderness.
CB So the Lord has put this supply, would you say, in the different localities. He has furnished the position, and that is the position into which He would take one who has fallen among the thieves?
AJG Quite so, but then we become skilful as we make use of what He has furnished. That is, He has furnished the position in the sense that the Spirit of Christ is in us. It is just a question of our recognising that He is looking for the spirit of care to develop among us.
LBr Just like when He washed the disciples’ feet, and then He says, “Ye also ought to wash one another’s feet, for I have given you an example.”
AJG Quite so.
FHP I was thinking that we are tested as to the character of love we have one for another. We find among other things in Corinthians, love seeks not its own.
AJG Quite so, love does not look for recognition. There are certain members of our body that are never seen and go on serving even when we are asleep or even when we are unconscious. Our breathing organs and our digestive organs and so on, they go on operating even when we are asleep, and they are never seen, they do not look for recognition at all.
It is a wonderful picture of love. God has given us the human body as the expression of what He looks for in the assembly.
JHH So that if we really love the Lord we express that love among the saints, is that it? The Lord said, “I was sick and ye visited me.”
AJG Quite so.
Q The law was originally love, not a matter of word and deed but love.
AJG Love expresses itself in moving spontaneously and acting, but the very fact that the first commandment was, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding, and with all thy strength,” shows that God Himself is love. He would never command love if He were not love Himself. It is because He is love that He wants love and commands it.
AY As you have been speaking of the tender and skilful way exercised here by the Samaritan on the one who fell among thieves, is this not peculiar to Luke’s presentation, bringing out this tender and compassionate touch of grace?
AJG Yes, quite so. We need all four gospels, I suppose, to get the whole truth, but we learn one side of it at a time.
EMs Would you say the lawyer was on the line of Cain, doing something to inherit eternal life?
AJG He was a lawyer, that is he was a legal man, and that is the kind of element that we have got to guard against in ourselves, because legality will never promote what is for the pleasure of God in a locality.
HAL “Go and do thou likewise” is individual, is it not? All the truth is to be taken up individually in view of what is collective?
AJG Quite so.
MSS Does this thought of neighbour mean one who is directly next to us?
AJG It does, indeed, and that just confirms what we are saying as to these things working out in a locality. Because in a locality it is the saints in the locality who are near to us, and it is those who are nearest to us that test us as to whether love is active with us.
AAT Did you want to say something about Mary and intelligence?
AJG Well, that is evidently another feature that the Lord looks for, because the idea of sonship which is primarily for the pleasure of God involves intelligence. When our children are young we delight in their affection and their simplicity and so on, but you look to their growing up and being able to take things up intelligently, as well as affectionately. So the full thought of sonship involves intelligence, that we may enter intelligently into God’s thoughts and appreciate the various features of His glory intelligently; what we present in our worship should be substantial.
WR Would Martha serving and Mary sitting at the Lord’s feet show that Martha was showing her love outwardly while Mary’s love was in her heart?
AJG Martha, it says, was cumbered with much serving. It is a good thing to recognise that she was serving, and she had received the Lord into her house. That is, there was much about her that was commendable, but then there was at this point a good deal about her that was not commendable, because she was getting so occupied with her service that nothing else counted with Martha. Whereas what counted with Mary was that she wanted to acquire the Lord’s mind.
HAL This “one thing” is before the heart of the Lord that we should come to it.
AJG Quite so.
CBl Shewing that we might be doing the right thing but not be in the liberty of love?
AJG She went so far as to find fault with the Lord.
CB Would we view Mary as one who had been adjusted by all the Lord had been saying? I mean, the principles laid down here in the local assembly, she is one who adhered to them and now had become restful at the Lord’s feet?
AJG Yes, quite so. Mary is like the heart of the assembly, and she is just sitting at the feet of Jesus as a deliberate matter, that is, it was a characteristic attitude with Mary, that she wished to become intelligent in the Lord’s mind. So she would pay attention to anything that He was saying.
RS Does “sat down” show that it was continuous with her?
AJG I think it is presented as characteristic because the Lord says, “Mary has chosen the good part, the which shall not be taken from her.”
RAE Would you say that this characteristic attitude would find expression in many ways, one of which would be the reading of the current ministry?
AJG Yes, I think so. Whatever the Lord is saying we would want to follow it up and understand it.
LBr That is the way we get intelligence then?
AJG That is it. What the Lord is saying. She sat at His feet and listened to His word. His word, of course, is what He is saying at the moment. Not even what He has said in the past, although we want to carry that forward in our souls, but what He is saying at the moment.
AAT I notice the Lord in addressing Martha says, “But there is need of one.” What does that mean, one what?
AJG One thing. It says, Martha! Martha! thou art careful and troubled about many things, but there is need of one, one thing, in contrast to many things that Martha was troubled about.
LAC I was wondering if the feature of the lawyer, the features which marked him, might not in some way be brought forward here in Martha and thus become an admonition to us. And whether Mary’s move here was not the first step towards going and doing likewise?
AJG Well, quite so. Martha in a way is perhaps a continuation of the seventy that get over-occupied with service. “And Martha was... serving” - it is a good thing to serve, of course, and love does serve, and any who are fitted for it must take it on “whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do with thy might,” too. At the same time service is not everything.
WR The sisters in the assembly are typified in Mary?
AJG Mary is more than that. She is a sister, of course, but she is a pattern of the subjective condition that should be found in brothers and sisters alike.
EMs And would you say that one who recognises and enjoys the sovereign grace of God would desire to learn more?
AJG Yes, I am sure of that. If we begin to get an impression of the Father as the Lord of heaven and earth, it begins to awaken a desire in us to become intelligent in His mind, in all that He has before Him.
MSS It might have been that Martha had more energy than Mary, but the fact that she chose the good part would involve whole-hearted committal, would it not?
AJG Yes, it would. And it has often been remarked that the fruit of this comes out in John 11 and 12. Mary is more restful in the eleventh of John than Martha, and in the twelfth of John she has real substance that can be brought out at the right moment and the fragrance of it fills the house.
WSW And Martha has been adjusted and she can serve acceptably too?
AJG Exactly.
MC The Lord says, Martha! Martha!
AJG Yes, there is a touch of tender affection in saying the name twice.
CBl I suppose Martha was more occupied with her service to the Lord, while Mary was more occupied with the Lord’s service to her?
AJG Quite so, and the Lord calls attention to Mary. Just as in chapter 7 He says to the Pharisees, “Seest thou this woman?” The Lord loves to call attention in localities to elements there that are pleasing to Him.
SH What is said of Martha here is that she had a house.
AJG Yes, quite so, and received the Lord into it, which was very good so far. But then what kind of conditions are we going to provide when we have received the Lord, that is the question?
AAT To what extent does the current ministry that we are being favoured with at the moment, contribute to our intelligence?
AJG That is what it is intended for. It is intended to form us and make us intelligent.
RS Was not the very occasion the means of helping Martha, the Lord being able to call attention to Mary as having chosen the “one thing”?
AJG Oh, I think so, the Lord’s intention was not that this should be exclusive to Mary. He would have Martha take on the same feature.
SW Would Martha’s complaint be suggestive of a state of unrest?
AJG Well, she was ruffled at the moment, and the Lord uses her by contrast to call attention to Mary.
FHP I was thinking of that, how it is mentioned in the Gospel of John that He loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus, that we might each one of us covet to be found as Mary was?
AJG Exactly, and He loved each of them separately. And that is evident in the way He speaks here, saying, Martha! Martha! He does not rebuke her in strong terms or anything of that sort, He speaks very affectionately to her.
EMs I was wondering if Mary would suggest one who was rejoicing in the fact that her name was written in heaven?
AJG I think she would. The more we get the idea into our souls that our names are written in heaven, the more we shall want to know about what God has given us, and become intelligent in His thoughts. And not only His thoughts regarding the assembly, but His thoughts regarding other families, too, because they are all part of the scheme in which divine glory shines.
LAC Martha had become distracted through the service. Will it not always be that to us if it does not flow from the happy and quiet sitting at the feet of the Lord Jesus, the sitting coming first?
AJG Quite so, and I think one result, among the many, of the way the Holy Spirit is being stressed at the present time, is, that the more He is recognised the more we shall be restful in service.
SW Would sitting at His feet imply subjection?
AJG It implies that, but more than that, I think. You get sitting at the feet of Jesus in chapter 8 with the man out of whom the demoniac had been cast, I think he stresses subjection, and, of course, that would be carried forward with Mary. But the sitting at the feet of Jesus is rather restfulness in order to listen undistractedly to what He is saying.
EMs So that the Son may reveal the Father as you were saying?
AJG Exactly.
CW It says in John 12, “There therefore they made him a supper,” would that be the outcome of what had taken place now?
AJG Well, quite so. Her ability to serve as she did would be the outcome of this.