THE TESTIMONY OF GRACE AND JUDGMENT (1)
THE TESTIMONY OF GRACE AND JUDGMENT (1)
JT The suggestion of the epistles to the Thessalonians is made with a measure of consideration and thoughtfulness, and particularly because they speak so much of judgment. It is thought that perhaps brethren have not sufficiently weighed the situation that has arisen in the present conditions among the nations, and then the conditions among the saints too, that the idea of judgment has not been taken into account sufficiently, especially in the light of the book of Revelation which was written late, as it is said, “Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to shew to his bondmen what must shortly take place”. That book contains most awful judgments, and they are not imaginary; they are real; and the Lord would, I believe, stress the thought of judgment. This epistle and the second epistle are especially intended to stress this thought of judgment, especially the persons at whom the judgments are directed, giving distinction as they do to the whole course of history, for the whole course of God’s government issues now in the present situation among the nations. It need hardly be said that we are thinking of the assembly, and its part in all this, and how much we are to be instructed as to it, and ready for it. Then there is the remarkable address by the apostle to this assembly, which is called the assembly of Thessalonians, as if to remind us that localities and nations and what is found in them cannot be ignored in our public services. And so the Thessalonians have a great place, but they are peculiarly addressed; that is, not the assembly at Thessalonica, but “the assembly of Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ”. So that the Father has a great place in the epistle, and the epistle itself shows what a great place the assembly of Thessalonians had in the heart of God, reflected in the apostle in the most endearing terms. Hence the thought of nations and cities cannot be ignored in our consideration of holy Scripture, because God has written Scripture in relation to history, and geography too. So that we are not to be indifferent to what the characteristics of Thessalonica were, and then, of course, what are the characteristics of the place in which we are today, and how much these characteristics have to be considered if we are looking into Scripture.
Rem What you are stressing, if I gather it rightly, is that the peculiar conditions of countries or certain cities are to be taken account of in the ministry.
JT I think they are. And the best illustration of that would be: “Cretans are always liars”, Titus 1: 12. That was the characteristic that had to be contended with in the ministry. It is therefore a question of any nation represented here, or country, or the one in which we are gathered, what its characteristics are. So in chapter 4 of the book of Acts we have the thought of “this city”, that is to say, Jerusalem, the one they were in, where the Lord Jesus had been crucified; so we have to take account of what the characteristics are in this sense, and be intelligent about them.
Rem The apostle says in regard to the Cretans, “This testimony is true”, and he takes the testimony of one of their own countrymen.
JT Quite so. An ordinary citizen of the place.
PHH The cities of the nations coming up before God for judgment, and each one being [p. 143] treated apparently differently, would be in line with your thought.
JT Very good. The cities of the nations fall, we are told. A very terrible thought, because so many gatherings of the saints now are in cities; in fact the growth of a city has assumed enormous proportions in our times as compared with what a city used to be, these proportions involve difficulties as to boundaries and other matters. So we do well to have all this in mind in our consideration of this scripture.
PHH In connection with that, would the places which the Lord mentions, as for instance in Matthew 11, with their differing characteristics be before us? He speaks, for instance, of Capernaum being raised up to heaven.
JT Especially those places where He had been Himself. He had resided in Capernaum. He came from Nazareth and went to Capernaum, and hence the mighty works that were done there. The same principle would apply to many of us here, where we reside, and what we are to contend with. The pronouncement of woe is really in line with what is in mind. “Woe to thee, Chorazin! woe to thee, Bethsaida! for if the works of power which have taken place in you, had taken place in Tyre and Sidon, they had long ago repented”.
PL Are the Thessalonians prepared in relation to this matter of judgment, by Paul’s first utterance among them in relation to supreme judgment, “Opening and laying down that the Christ must have suffered and risen up from among the dead”, Acts 17: 3?
JT And then this final word here, “Jesus, our deliverer from the coming wrath”; that is the final word in this chapter. Opening and laying down is a matter of great importance, because opening would mean the unfolding of things, even as it is said of Moses, “began Moses to unfold this law”, Deuteronomy 1: 5. Opening would be the unfolding of the truth, and then the laying down would be the authoritative assertion as to it, that it was so, that it was authoritative, which is very important too.
AJG Would this allusion in the last verse to our deliverer from the coming wrath imply that the fact that there was wrath to come, had a place in Paul’s ministry at Thessalonica?
JT That is what I thought; it was in his mind, especially the Lord’s coming as connected with it, which is referred to in every chapter.
AJD Is the day of judgment brought to bear upon us now, in order to set us free in our spirits?
JT It certainly has a place in the testimony of the gospel of the word of God; and that raises a matter that one has thought of considerably; namely, that there is very little open-air preaching now, hardly any, and yet it is a good opportunity for asserting judgment. Indeed it is more convenient and suitable to assert the judgment of God publicly than to do it in the meeting rooms.
AJG Paul said, “Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord we persuade men”, 2 Corinthians 5: 11.
JT There it is, terror; that comes in in connection with the judgment seat of Christ.
JP-sn In the beginning of the Acts, the apostle exhorted those who believed to save themselves from this untoward generation. Judgment was coming in upon the Jews. Should that have part in our gospel testimony to men today?
JT Quite so, and especially in view of what is said in the epistle to the Hebrews, and what is said as to the nations receiving the glad tidings at the end of the book of Acts. Paul reasoned with the Jews all day with but little result from it, which is indicative of the present situation among the Jews. There is really very little result from them in the gospel [p. 145] testimony. They reasoned the whole day with the apostle, and he has to quote Isaiah 6 to them, showing the terribleness of the judgment that awaits them. It seems as if that is what should be before us too, the matter of public testimony, and the convenient time for announcing the judgment of God publicly.
HW Would Noah, at the end of his dispensation, being a preacher of righteousness just prior to God’s judgment coming in by the flood, and then the prophet Malachi speaking about God coming in in judgment. Jehovah coming suddenly to His temple in the way of judgment at the end, support what you are saying?
JT Just so, and the promise to send the prophet Elijah, in the latter book, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children. That shows that the terrible dislocation of family relations is in mind, and we cannot ignore it either, because of our own families. So that the idea of a prophetic testimony in regard of that is very important. And then Noah was a preacher of righteousness; you had that in mind?
HW Judgment was pending and you would expect that to enter into Noah’s preaching.
JT Very important, because our dispensation began with public testimony in the open air, I would say, but there is not much of it now. In fact I have heard it reported recently, since I have been here, that the time for it is over, which I do not think is true.
DJM Would Proverbs 1 come in; Wisdom crying without, in the broadways, and then the thought of calamity?
JT Very good; crying without.
Rem While Paul waited at Athens he announced repentance and judgment, even the day being set.
JT That is a very good reference, because we have already alluded to the same thought; that is, the question of what was at Athens, because [p. 146] Thessalonica was comparatively near to Athens. The apostle said God has “appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained”. Acts 17: 31. The day is fixed; it is a very good testimony, a very good text too, to bring forward in public, in speaking to men. Paul spoke to men in the open air on Mars’s Hill.
Ques Was that the result of his spirit being painfully excited within him as he took account of conditions in that city?
JT Exactly, that is to say the idolatry that was there. And then what have we to contend with? What terrible conditions exist among men in all the countries, especially since the last war, even in England conditions have greatly degenerated.
LPM Does this reference in the first chapter to the word of the Lord sounding out from you enter into the matter?
JT Well, it shows the kind of thing that was needed was there — the sounding out of the word of the Lord.
GA Would Peter’s word link on with what you were saying, that “the time of having the judgment begin from the house of God is come; but if first from us, what shall be the end of those who obey not the glad tidings of God?” 1 Peter 4: 17. Would assembly judgment really constitute the only evidence from God, here at the moment, of the fact that the judgment of which you have been speaking lies immediately ahead?
JT Quite so, and the Spirit being here, the equivalent to what is in heaven. A matter of the very greatest importance, that what is here is equivalent to what is in heaven. The announcement objectively has its answer here in the Spirit, and it is a question whether we are equal to such a testimony, and to the suffering and reproach attached to it.
[p. 147] PHH Would the thought of intercession among the saints go alongside of this announcing of judgment? I am thinking of Abraham going to conduct Jehovah in the way and speaking to Him in intercession about Sodom.
JT Quite so. God recognised and felt the sympathy that He would have in Abraham, “Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do ... ?”. And “that he will command his children and his household after him”. He is a worthy man, a person who has a house and a family. God would honour him in proclaiming the testimony in connection with that, both in regard to Abraham and in regard to Lot.
HJM As well as the testimony itself, there is the manner of men that Paul, Silas and Timothy were among them.
JT That leads us up to something very definite in our chapter, the phrase in verse 9; their entering in. “For they themselves relate concerning us what entering in we had to you”. That phrase reminds us, besides the one you quote, of the kind of man Paul was, and his entering in. Not that he was invited or sent for, as he was in other cases, but he entered in. There was the call to him earlier from Macedonia: “Come over into Macedonia, and help us”. But there is nothing of that kind here. It is our “entering in”, it is mentioned twice in our book, in this and the next chapter. “Ye know yourselves, brethren, our entering in which we had to you, and that it has not been in vain”; that is to say, there was no pretension to religious distinction, or any other distinction. The apostle was in keeping with his testimony, and all that followed in Thessalonica showed what a real man he was, a real man getting down to the conditions of people.
PL And as thus he was very attractive; some of them believed in Acts 17, and joined themselves to Paul and [p. 148] Silas.
JT Very good. Our entering in would mean our manner in the house which we visit, and whether we promote encouragement in them, and are in accord with the conditions of the houses and add to them. Paul would be thoroughly in that as to the saints wherever he went; he would be ready to be anything to promote their comfort and blessing, so he would gather sticks.
AED Would that add to the importance of the word, “Ye became our imitators”?
JT Well, that goes with all we have said. “Ye”, on which there is emphasis, “Ye became our imitators, and of the Lord”. It is remarkable that the apostle puts himself before the Lord, as if the servant is to reflect the Lord, to make a way for Him. Indeed we read in Luke 10 that He sent certain ones before Him in His ministry, so that a way is made for the Lord in our methods and conduct in the houses.
Rem Paul goes twice into the house of Lydia in Acts 16, finding the brethren at the end of the chapter in the house of Lydia, and stimulating them in regard to the work of God and the message that had gone forth in the prison.
JT Yes, she did not make it any matter of compliment that she gave them hospitality, but said, “If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house”, Acts 16: 15. They had come to the door you might say, but they were invited in. But here it is “our entering in”; that is, the general character of the entering of the servant to the place and the person he visits.
RRT Would we have this matter in contrast in Abraham and Lot? There was an entering in with regard to Abraham, but quite a contrast in regard to Lot. There was not liberty in Lot’s household for the entering [p. 149] in, was there?
JT Well, he was in the position of a politician and yet Peter calls him a righteous man, which is a remarkable thing, and would somewhat modify anything we may have thought about Lot, because he was a real man at bottom, although his face was towards Sodom. On the other hand Abraham was honoured in the sense that even Lot comes under divine consideration because of the influence of Abraham; “God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow”, Genesis 19: 29. And hence we have to learn to provide our Abrahams; not indeed to provide our Lots, because they come under discipline, yet Peter says he was a righteous man; a righteous man may have to come under discipline, and Lot was under discipline; he was not honoured as Abraham was. We cannot claim advantage because of any past history, in regard of our present circumstances; it is what is going on now, what we are now, that counts.
EBMcC Would verse 5 help us in that way? “For our glad tidings were not with you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance”.
JT Much assurance. The apostle delineates just what was there in him, and so we shall find in the next chapter that they received what he had testified, as the word of God; and that they were affected by it, in that they became imitators of the assemblies of God in Judaea, which is another matter to be in our minds, that we must be universal. Any attempt to localise gift is simply to deny the universality of the truth, for gift is universal. These christians in Thessalonica imitated the churches in Judaea, far away from them; they were not purely local, they were universal in their outlook.
Rem The gift is not the product of the place but of the Lord’s own [p. 150] actions.
JT Quite so. You mean Paul was not a product of the place.
ET I wanted to enquire in relation to the preaching in the open air. Would the basis for it be gift? You were referring earlier to the lack of open-air preaching, but if it is taken up, it is necessarily taken up on the principle of gift.
JT I would think so. “How shall they preach unless they have been sent?”. That is to say, it is a question of being sent. Of course there is such a thing as one offering himself, but volunteering is not a principle in the service of God. It is what God takes on.
Ques “Woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!”, 1 Corinthians 9: 16. Is that a man in the sense of being sent, and in the feelings that were proper to the situation?
JT I would think so.
PHH May I ask in relation to that if we hold the balance between being invited as you were saying, or sent, and then our entering in? Are they the two sides of the visit?
JT Well, being sent, of course, is wholly from God, it is God’s sovereignty in taking up a servant and sending him. I should think this phrase, “our entering in”, would fix itself on the spirit of the apostle.
PHH I was wondering that. Would you say another word about being sent. Do I understand it is wholly the divine side?
JT I think it is. “How shall they preach unless they have been sent?” Romans 10: 15. That is plain enough. Of course, invitations may be modified, they may not really mean the full thought. They may just mean that the door is open for you at any time, and not the full thought of being sent, but going by invitation. I think the way to get at the truth is to get the scripture, according to what it [p. 151] says, wherever it speaks unqualifiedly. The word we have quoted is, “How shall they preach unless they have been sent?”. That is unqualified.
Ques Is there the thought too, “Here am I”, on the line of availability? “Send me” for effectiveness?
JT Yes, that is from Isaiah 6.
Ques Do you think from the servant’s own point of view, that however urgent the invitation, he could not go unless he had a sense in his own soul of being sent?
JT Yes. We have to take account of the context of Scripture. If it does not afford the full literal thought, it is a question of what we may think, but we ought to be instructed as to the spirit of things, and very often we get quotations of Scripture in the spirit of things, in the spirit of Scripture, rather than the letter; but at the same time we cannot ignore the letter, and when it comes to a test or a crisis in a critical matter, then we have to recognise the letter, therefore “By thy words thou shalt be justified”, Matthew 12: 37. That is the word as to the actual literal thing, and you are either justified by it or not.
GA Would what you are remarking appear in Jonah? We would wonder if he had the spirit of the direction from Jehovah, but he certainly had the letter. Would that in any way connect with your thought?
JT Just so, he did not have the spirit of it. He had the letter. The fact of the matter is that Jonah was never in the spirit of things until he wrote his book. I do not believe he was ever right until he wrote his book. Then he condemns himself in his book, so that it is well if we write. Some do not publish anything that has been published before, or written before, or spoken before, they put it in the waste basket, but it is well to have printed anything that is worth printing. If it is condemnatory of [p. 152] yourself, well let it be, or if it justifies God, God must be justified. “Let God be true, and every man false”, Romans 3: 4.
HH The word sent is used many times in the gospel of John in relation to the Lord Jesus.
JT You might say it is the governing thought.
HB Would you say that John Baptist illustrates this principle? “There was a man sent from God, his name John”, and his ministry was effective.
JT Quite so; that just confirms what we are saying, a man sent from God.
PHH Would the Levites in the Old Testament, particularly in the book of Numbers, illustrate what you are saying about the doubtful character of volunteering? God chose the Levites and gave them their service.
JT Yes, and giving them no salary except what came from God; God’s portion was theirs (Numbers 18: 21 - 24). They are honoured really in that their recompense was so nearly from God, their place was so very near to Himself. There is another thing that it would be well to think of as to the word ‘Levite’, it is a typical word that is used antitypically, and rightly used antitypically. At the same time the New Testament affords abundance of testimony as to the words that should be used as to the Lord’s service, and hence Paul in 1 Corinthians asserts what applied to him. He is to be regarded as a ministering servant (1 Corinthians 3: 5).
PL “Jehovah, he is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them”. Deuteronomy 18: 2.
JT Quite so, and then they had other things as you know, especially the forty-eight cities, meaning that as ministers they are to be administrators, and if anyone goes out to minister or preach, he comes short unless he can administer. The forty-eight cities would mean that they were living in cities. Barnabas was one who, having land, sold it [p. 153] and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet. He did not give it away, he just laid it at the apostles’ feet; he placed it where it could be administered. So the idea of the forty-eight cities, I believe, would be that we all, and especially young men, should be instructed in administration. And so when Paul was converted the Lord said to him, “Go into the city”. Why did not the Lord tell him everything outside? He did not, because it was a question of the city, it was a question of administrative power and authority. And so He says, “Go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do”. So that he had to learn what he should do from a man lower in the service than he was, or would be. That is to say, in service we have to learn to be submissive, and to learn from anyone that God may use, and whatever administrative work may be allotted to us, to do it, and not to be in any way looking for others to do it for us, but to do the thing ourselves.
HJM Is it not also important that the servant should be in the current of God’s feelings? Jonah was not in the current of God’s feelings. The beloved apostle was very much in the current of God’s feelings and he could express them.
JT Quite so. So that we are under God, as well as under Christ, and under the Spirit too; the Spirit is guiding us, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are operative in this great matter of administration, and sending, so the Spirit in the book of Acts asserts this. It is not asserted so much elsewhere, but it is asserted there as a matter of the dispensation; it is the dispensation of the Spirit in that sense. So that He says, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them” (Acts 13: 2); and being sent forth by the Holy Spirit they did certain things. Surely it is a great principle of the dispensation that the Spirit is [p. 154] the Sender too.
WSS Do the Lord’s words, “As the Father sent me forth, I also send you”, enter into what you have been saying?
JT I think so. It is the character of John’s gospel as we remarked. And so in John 20 we read, “He breathed into them, and says to them, Receive the Holy Spirit” not take it. He is available, but “Receive the Holy Spirit”, and then He says, “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them”, not they will be, but they are remitted unto them; and “whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained”, so that the position is left in our hands. It is a most remarkable thing, and it is particularly in John’s gospel that the administration is left in our own hands. Many things are left in our own hands, and the Lord would empower us by the breathing of the Spirit in us. Hence the wonderful character of the dispensation, which is to be borne in mind all the time. It is a question of what was at the outset, and what is now, because the dispensation is not abrogated, it still stands.
LPM Are service and administration put close together in the verse just quoted, sending them and giving them the administrative competency to proceed?
JT Just so. It is a most remarkable chapter; chapter 20 is really, you might say, one of the most characteristic chapters of John’s gospel.
Ques In the next chapter, is their failure to recognise that, in that Peter says, “I go to fish”, but not being sent, there was no prosperity in that undertaking?
JT Just so. “I go to fish”. He was not waiting at all for any time to elapse; he says, “I go to fish”, meaning that he was determined to do it, but then the wonderful thing is that the Lord does not reprove him. That is another matter that we have to take account of in John’s writings. He says, “Children, have ye any meat?”
Ques In what you have referred to in John 20, is that the assembly, or is it the persons?
JT I would say the persons, but persons who form the assembly. John does not use the word assembly really. It is a question of the persons who form it, and their dignity, so that the personnel of the servants is most striking in John’s gospel, such as Mary Magdalene.
Ques Do you think the sense of the severity of the coming wrath would only enhance to us the present value of the grace of the dispensation?
JT Quite so. And that the writer of John’s gospel and epistles is the writer of the book of Revelation; the Lord told him exactly what to write, when to write it, and the order of the book. You do not get that anywhere else, really, save in the book of Revelation, that the Lord Himself gives him the order in which the book is to be written. And then he is a bondman; he is not John the beloved, he is a bondman.
ECT And near the end you get, “whosoever will”; would that be in keeping with the dispensation? “Let him take the water of life freely”.
JT Quite so, that spreads out from a beautiful passage, beginning, “I am the root and offspring of David, the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come ... he that will, let him take the water of life freely”. It is as if that grand passage which is quoted there, spreads out after it is uttered, that is to say, it gives liberty to anyone, whosoever, to take the water of life freely. On the other hand, immediately after that we have, “I testify to every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any one shall add to these things. God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book. And if any one take from the [p. 156] words of the book of this prophecy. God shall take away his part from the tree of life and out of the holy city, which are written in this book”, Revelation 22: 18, 19. And then another verse earlier says, “Let him that does unrighteously do unrighteously still; and let the filthy make himself filthy still; and let him that is righteous practise righteousness still; and he that is holy, let him be sanctified still”. That, I think, is a very solemn thing, that as to the present unrighteousness, the terrible conditions of christendom, which have been going on for a long time, especially during these recent wars. God is saying, ‘Let them go on’. God is saying, ‘I will let them go on’. But at the same time, whoever is sanctified, let him remain sanctified. That is the point. Whoever is righteous, let him remain righteous. Let him not give it up because of conditions, but remain as he was, whereas on the other hand God is letting the wickedness proceed. He is not stopping it. This is awful, that the unrighteous conditions are to stand. God is not altering them. He is not going to reform the world at all. He is just going to let it go, and that is the idea of the present moment, the time of the end, that there is such a thing as those conditions present. Hence we need not look for very much from politics, or from statesmanship either. The condition, therefore, has to be looked into, and of course the reaction is towards ourselves as to what we can do in these things, and that is, if one is righteous, remain so; if one is sanctified, remain so, do not give it up.
PHH That would give great encouragement to all the saints to go on outwardly and inwardly with all that God has given us in the assembly.
JT Well, that is beautiful, most cheering, that we can go on with our assembly meetings, for God is with us in it.
[p. 157] PHH And the righteousness would bear upon the public testimony in the midst of a good deal that is dark and unclean, even in high places?
JT Indeed it does. Those of us who travel know it too, how testimony, however small, bears on what is current.
Ques Nabal went on with his unrighteousness and unholiness, and Abigail in close contact with it went on with her exercises, would you say?
JT Very good. She was commended so highly and rewarded, too, in becoming the wife of David.
Rem It is noticeable in the beginning of Luke how he outlines to Theophilus the political situation in such detail, and yet John is in the wilderness outside of it all, and the word of God comes to him and things proceed in relation to the incoming of Christ. Is that our hope, what God is doing? It says in the third chapter, “Now in the fifteenth year of the government of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod tetrarch of Galilee, and Philip his brother tetrarch of Ituraea and the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene, in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came upon John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness”. I thought it was a little remarkable that so much should be made of the then politics of the day, and of a man who was outside of it all.
JT Quite so. It is said of him that he dwelt in the deserts, so that he had no comforts.
JP-sn In the second epistle to the Thessalonians, Paul writes of those who have found pleasure in unrighteousness, but he says, “We ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, that God has chosen you from the beginning to salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth”. Is that what we see now coming to light in the Thessalonians?
JT “God has chosen”. Quite so.
AJG Do you think that the sixth verse of this first chapter helps in view of the conditions in the world to which you are referring? It says, “Having accepted the word in much tribulation with joy of the Holy Spirit”. Is not joy of the Holy Spirit an important feature in sustaining faith in view of conditions around?
JT Yes, that is so. One of the greatest exercises that one has is the question of joy, joy in the Holy Spirit, so that one is superior to whatever happens. Another thing to note here is the fact that hope is much stressed in verse 3; the apostle says, “Remembering unceasingly your work of faith, and labour of love, and enduring constancy of hope, of our Lord Jesus Christ, before our God and Father; knowing, brethren beloved by God, your election. For our glad tidings were not with you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance”. The idea of hope is greatly stressed, although it is not found in the address in the next epistle, which is a distressing thought, really, but it is greatly stressed in this chapter; the enduring constancy of hope, because it is the thing which will sustain us in the pressure that is current all round; the hope of the coming of the Lord, really, or whatever else it may be, what God’s thoughts are as to us. That is one of the thoughts that was in mind in proposing this epistle; that is, it is the epistle of hope, the enduring constancy of hope, as well as love.
JS Would you say that the Thessalonians would learn quickly? I was thinking that the ministry of late has been that we should learn quickly, and I thought it was touching on our times. Three weeks put them on a high level, did it not?
JT That is good. I think we were speaking of that somewhere, where you were present. This question of hope is so important, because [p. 159] it enlivens us,
it keeps us going brightly when things are oppressive outwardly.
GA Why does the apostle in the second epistle refer to it as everlasting consolation and good hope through grace? “But our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us, and given us eternal consolation and good hope by grace, encourage your hearts, and establish you in every good work and word”. Why would the apostle in that way intensify the quality of hope?
JT Well, that was his prayer for them, it was what they were lacking in. It really takes the form of a prayer for them, whereas in the first epistle the thing is there, the enduring constancy of it. I suppose he was concerned that there was a lapse when he wrote the second letter, and so he introduces much in the way of vengeance in it. And that they should rest with him when it should come; that, of course, would enter into the prayer that they should be kept in hope of the coming glories.
CFI The thought of election enters into this, “Knowing, brethren beloved by God, your election”. I thought the purpose of God would come in, in relation to that, and be in the minds of the saints.
JT Quite so. It was there. They were in the good of the testimony that Paul rendered, the elect of God; it is a comforting and most precious thought for us that we belong to the elect. Much depends on the elect as to current happenings and happenings in the future. If it were not for the elect, no one would be saved, showing how great a place the idea of election has; it is for us to lay hold of it.
EBMcC Should it be noted that they became imitators of the apostle and of the Lord, and that the word sounded out from them?
JT It is beautiful what he could say of them, “The word of the Lord sounded out from you, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but in every place”;
notice the idea of place; “in every place your faith which is towards God has gone abroad, so that we have no need to say anything; for they themselves relate concerning us what entering in we had to you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and [p. 162] to await his Son from the heavens, whom he raised from among the dead, Jesus, our deliverer from the coming wrath”.
ELG In some small meetings the gospel is not preached, the brethren feeling there is no gift. Other small meetings have taken it up in extreme weakness with no sense of gift, but desiring to testify to the preciousness of Christ Jesus, and it has been stressed that the saints have no sense probably of having gift. Would that be right?
JT That is a question for investigation. You are suggesting a case of the kind, but then the next thing would be to investigate the matter because we cannot be sure without investigating. It is a great matter with God that we should investigate. Is it really so, that there is no gift? The word in Ephesians is “Unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ”, Ephesians 4: 7. Well, what does that mean? Does it not mean that every one of us could say something in the way of testimony? The specific gifts, of course, are added to that, but every one of us has gift in some sense. If he has the Holy Spirit there is something, and so with a woman like Anna, she spoke of Him to all that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. Even a sister could do that.
FW Doing the work of an evangelist, even though not having the gift of one?
JT Quite so.
Rem I was wondering whether the principle “if the readiness be there, a man is accepted according to what he may have”, might apply in [p. 161] such a case.
JT It does indeed.
AED And the word, “Be urgent in season and out of season”?
JT There is another one that fits in. How many evidences we have of sisters and others who cannot be said to have gift in this specific case, but yet they have been used in blessing to others. I know of many.
DJM The little maid is an example.
JT Very good. She was moved, she was impressed, she was feeling the thing, which would be the point. “Oh, would that my lord were before the prophet that is in Samaria!”. The exclamation shows that she is feeling about the thing.
WSS There is hardly a suggestion of gift in this first chapter, and yet it says, “The word of the Lord sounded out from you”.
JT That is what I was thinking. The idea of sounding out is not exactly preaching.
ACSP Is your thought that as current local conditions are dealt with in ourselves, and amongst the saints, it would make for power in testimony to men?
JT Undoubtedly. The neighbours will notice it, because things begin locally. Whatever begins with God begins locally somewhere. It is a question of what the labourers are, what is there. And so it is a question therefore of the brothers and sisters in the place, and even the children are often a testimony; those going to school are often a testimony.
PHH Would serving the living and true God include the service of the glad tidings in a general way? I was thinking of Paul’s remark in Romans, God, “whom I serve in my spirit in the glad tidings of his Son”.
JT He served in his spirit; very good.
PHH So that the words, “How ye turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, and to await his Son from the heavens”, would give a complete picture of the results in that place.
JT Very good, I would say, specially the thought of a man serving in his spirit; there is, for instance, Paul in the ship, and his extraordinary experience on the voyage to Malta, what he said, not his preaching, but what he said, what he was. He became the master of the ship, you might say. He acquired such influence. What an influence he asserted! It was a question of the government of God, but the position in the government of God becomes an occasion of testimony.
ET You drew attention to the word ‘place’ in verse 8. Would you say something additional in relation to that, bearing upon this city with its many meetings.
JT Well, the address to the Corinthians reads, “With all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours”, showing that it is a local idea. Things begin locally. God’s interventions begin somewhere, and it is a question of the place being affected, and then its yield in what is of God. Therefore the idea of place is of extreme importance, and you have to go over a country like this to understand what is in a place, the little meetings here and there; some of them are very small, I know, as indeed in every country. Well, what are the facts? In order to gather up the enrichment that God has, we have to take account of whatever there may be, what there is in any given place.
Ques It says of the Lord that He prayed in a certain place (Luke 11: 1). That place would have been blessed in relation to His prayer, would you say?
JT Quite so. Undoubtedly He had in mind what preceded it and that is what Martha was, in chapter 10. She was a difficult woman at the time. She complained about the Lord Himself and no doubt that [p. 163] ought to be considered as entering into this matter of the Lord praying in a certain place. No doubt He would say, ‘I ought to pray where Martha is’. But then John would say that there is some result, because he makes more of Martha than Luke does, which is remarkable.
WSS The faith of the Thessalonians had gone abroad to other places. Does that suggest the importance of the local position at any place as affecting other places? The way we are moving in our own locality has a bearing upon other localities.
JT Quite so. You have gone afield now yourself, and others of us have; it is a question of what we are doing where we have come from, and what we can do now where we are.
WSS I was thinking of the Thessalonians as being helped at the beginning to understand that their position was not merely local, but had a bearing on what was universal.
JT Very good. So that our testimony locally is to be known, and then as we go abroad, it is a question of doing something there.