READINGS ON 1 CORINTHIANS (4) PART 1
[p. 84] READINGS ON 1 CORINTHIANS (4) PART 1
JT This scripture is a most important section and what comes into it immediately is the matter of the Lord’s appearing. It runs on from the first verse, “But I make known to you, brethren; the glad tidings which I announced to you, which also ye have received”. The apostle is stressing the fact that they not only heard the truth, but that they had received it. He further says, “in which also ye stand, by which also ye are saved, (if ye hold fast the word which I announced to you as the glad tidings,) unless indeed ye have believed in vain”. He is stressing the fact that the glad tidings were preached through him, and they had received it, and they would be saved by the glad tidings. All these are very important facts to keep in mind. But then he says, “For I delivered to you, in the first place, what also I had received” (verse 3). These words are also found in chapter 11, as to the Lord’s supper. But here he says, “What also I had received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures; and that he was buried; and that he was raised the third day, according to the scriptures”. These are facts to be noted, and as I have said, what has been read refers to the basis of the gospel; that is to say “that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures”. The Scriptures are stressed, “and that he was buried; and that he was raised the third day, according to the scriptures”. The only point that I would further stress is that “he was buried”, for that is included in what is necessary for redemption; that is, for the testimony in the gospel. Christ not only died, but He was buried, and then He was raised the third day, according to the Scriptures. Do the brethren have that in mind as an item of the gospel, and an [p. 85] item of the means of salvation; that is, the burial of the Christ?
JPvN Would that mean that we have been put out of sight in the grave? The Lord was put out of sight in the grave.
JT Put out of sight. There is scripture for that, because Abraham said of his wife, “That I may bury my dead out of my sight”. We have to speak very carefully and holily as regards the Lord Jesus, but He was actually put out of sight. He not only died on the cross, but He was buried, put out of sight, as our brother says. And He was there for three days and three nights, as He said Himself, “three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”, Matthew 12: 40.
PL Vicariously, for He was buried for the sake of others.
JT Just so. That is part of the vicarious work of Christ; not only that He died, but that He was buried. The passage brings out the place that Scripture has in the testimony, that everything must be supported by Scripture. The Bereans tested what Paul said; it is said that they searched the Scriptures as to whether these things were so, whether they were so according to Scripture.
FJF Would “according to the scriptures” cover both those statements “that he was buried; and that he was raised the third day, according to the scriptures”? The Scripture says that men appointed His grave with the wicked, but that He was with the rich in His death.
JT I would say that. Speaking with the utmost reverence, let us think what it was to God Himself; what it meant to Him, that His beloved Son should lie in the grave for three days and three nights. What is that to you? What do we understand by that?
PL He could say to His God, “Thou hast laid me in the dust of death”, Psalm [p. 86] 22: 15.
FJF Was the teaching behind that, that the first order of man had to be removed?
JT Yes, removed out of sight, as our brother said, that is to say, He was put into the ground. The judgment on man was, “dust thou art; and unto dust shalt thou return”. We could not apply that to Christ, for He was the Holy One of God, and saw no corruption, but He was laid in the grave, “the heart of the earth”, as He said.
FJF There is no revival of the man that was removed in judgment.
JT No revival at all. In resurrection Christ came out of it all, a Man of another order really. We have to apprehend that; and not only that, but that He has gone into heaven. The Lord is spoken of in Philippians 3: 20, “Our commonwealth has its existence in the heavens, from which also we await the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour, who shall transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory”. Now I just wish to call attention to that; it was not His body of resurrection simply, but His body of glory. We are to be conformed to that, hence the greatness of what we are coming into, in translation. We are to be made like the Lord Jesus, to His body of glory.
FJF No one knows what that is like.
JT Well, John would say, “When he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is”, 1 John 3: 2. It is not as He was, but as He is. That is what I gather the passage means, that the present state in which Christ is in heaven, His body of glory, is what we await.
HW Do you connect the thought of order or condition with the Lord’s present position? He is spoken of as a Man of another order in resurrection.
JT Quite so. Both words are right, I would say, either ‘order’ or ‘condition’, though each word has its own distinctive meaning. The Lord’s present [p. 87] condition is not simply that He has risen, but that He is glorified.
HW Would you connect the thought of order with what He was here in flesh and blood? I would like to get clear as to Christ being of a different order, although here in human condition?
JT Well, it refers to what He was morally, but still He was a Man. His condition then was spoken of as “in the days of his flesh”, Hebrews 5: 7. I think that ought to be paid attention to.
HW “The second man, out of heaven”. That would be connected with the days of His flesh.
JT He was in a unique condition. There never was anyone like Him, before or since, because He was sinless, not only sinless, but righteous, such being predicated of Him in a moral sense, but still He laid down His life. He laid it down. He said, “I lay down my life, that I might take it again”. “That I might take it” is in another condition.
FJF Mr. Stoney used to refer to the Lord as sui generis; that is, of His own order.
JT That is good. So even as regards the days of His flesh, He was of His own order morally, but the words “flesh and blood” have to be recognised; “the days of his flesh” implies a condition that had to be given up, and it was given up. He took it to give it up, and so “Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit”, John 12: 24. That includes, I apprehend, what we are just speaking of, the three days and three nights, that He not only died, but that He was buried and came out of the earth in another condition of manhood, and that condition is resurrection; but then there is a further thought, that He is in a glorified body. John says, “We shall see him as he is”; not as He was, but as He is. So, too, John says that “as he is, so are we in this world”, 1 John 4: 17; that is to say, morally we are that; as He is, we are that in this world.
JPvN Shall we have resurrection bodies?
JT Well, we shall be raised, of course, as we have read. The stress here is on the resurrection; we shall have risen bodies, but then we shall have glorified bodies, which is an additional thought. We shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. That was not during the forty days when He was here in the flesh; it is His heavenly condition. These instances of His appearings which we have in our chapter refer almost entirely to the forty days of the Lord’s sojourn before He went to heaven. But of Paul it is said in this passage, he says it of himself, that Christ appeared to him too, so that he saw Christ as He is; that has to be kept in mind. The list given is as follows: “And that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the most remain until now, but some also have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James; then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to an abortion, he appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, who am not fit to be called apostle, because I have persecuted the assembly of God. But by God’s grace I am what I am; and his grace, which was towards me, has not been vain; but I have laboured more abundantly than they all, but not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Whether, therefore, I or they, thus we preach, and thus ye have believed”. Paul is included in those to whom Christ Himself appeared, and I think that is worthy of consideration, because it raises the question of the Lord’s coming to us, according to John 14: 18. The Lord says there, “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”. Well, there the question is whether that coming to us is in His heavenly, glorious body, or whether it is a spiritual matter, only meaning that [p. 89] He comes to us in the power of the Spirit when we are in assembly. That is the question which I think is worthy of consideration.
JEM The Lord served in His body of flesh and blood and then in His resurrection body. Are you suggesting our apprehending Him in some sense, as He comes to us, in His body of glory?
JT I would say that exactly. It is a wonderful thing. We may say we have not seen Him thus and, of course, I go with that. At the same time there are the scriptural statements and the fact that Paul saw Him. “Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?” he asks, 1 Corinthians 9: 1. And he did not see Him as He was in the days of His flesh, nor is it what the others saw in the forty days before He ascended. Paul saw Him in His body of glory. So that whether it be in His body before He was glorified, or after, these statements refer to Christ, and Paul is singular in that he said, “Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?” We know that he saw the Lord Jesus; he saw Him, and heard His voice. So that in this very dispensation in which we are, Christ was apprehended corporeally, that is to say in the body, here, by a christian. The question, therefore, is now brought down to this: whether these instances of the Lord’s appearing to His own in this chapter were in His state before He ascended, and thus in a corporeal sense as Man, but a glorious Person, a risen Man, and whether they also include, and we know they do in Paul’s case, seeing the Lord in His body of glory?
WSS Is the apostle here establishing the truth of the resurrection, and these facts are brought forward in support of it?
JT That is what this passage is dealing with really, but what we are now touching is a little more than that. The Lord we are told, has a body of glory, and we have to take account [p. 90] of that.
FJF Do you think in assembly, that we should look for these manifestations to be conscious that we are in the presence of One who is glorified?
JT I think that is quite in order, only that, according to what is said in Acts 1 of the forty days. He presented Himself living, being seen by them. The conditions were somewhat different from what are indicated in Paul’s case.
HW These four great facts have to be held in our mind to the end as characteristics of christianity, Christ died, was buried, was raised, and appeared; the last equal to all the others.
JT Very good. In whatever sense the word ‘appearing’ may be used, it enters into assembly service and privilege.
CMP In what aspect would “seen” be used? Paul no doubt saw Him with his eyes. Do we see Him with the eyes of our heart?
JT No one would attempt to say anything beyond that, as far as I know, but certainly Paul saw something more than that. John would say, “We shall see him as he is”. He does not say, ‘We have seen Him as He is’; it is a future thing that is in his mind. So in Philippians His “body of glory” is what we are to be like.
WOS Would it be right to say that the attitude of the assembly is looking for the Lord Jesus? “Even so, come, Lord Jesus”, Revelation 22: 20.
JT The word as to that is very touching. Those that love His appearing, not simply that He will come according to 1 Thessalonians 4, “The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first”. It is not only that, but as John says, we shall see Him as He is; it is to those that love His appearing. It is as well to keep in mind that we love His appearing, not simply that we love to see Him as risen, but that [p. 91] we love His appearing, alluding to the condition He is in today. The condition He took up after the forty days was a glorious condition. It was after He ascended, according to the facts, that He took up the condition that Paul calls “his body of glory” and that is what we are looking for. We love His appearing.
JW “We shall see him as he is”. Does it involve that we shall be like Him, when we see Him?
JT I think so; “for we shall see him as he is”. Then there is the other word in John’s epistle, “Even as he is, we also are in this world”, 1 John 4: 17. It alludes to His present position, and the place divine love has given to us. His appearing literally will be in His body, His body of glory.
FJF Paul gets the crown then, does he not? The crown of righteousness shall be given not only to me, he says, but to all those who love His appearing.
WL In John 20: 20 it says, “Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord”.
JT He had not yet ascended. We have the formal statement that Jesus was not yet glorified, that means His glory was in mind, not only His resurrection, but His glory. But when they saw the Lord, it was simply the condition He was in as risen. I would not attempt to say that there is any great difference, but we have the word, “his body of glory”. We must pay attention to that: but what they saw in John 20 was before He ascended. “Go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend”; that is, He is going to ascend “to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”. He was going to do that, but He was here forty days before He did it, but then He caused gladness to the apostles, to the disciples; it was at the very sight of Him. So John said to Peter, “It is the Lord”. Jesus said to Mary, “Go to my brethren and say to them,
[p. 92] I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”, but He had not done that yet, not until the forty days were over.
JEM Does it help us at the Lord’s supper, as He is spiritually apprehended coming into the midst, if we have in mind that He has a body of glory? it would add to our joy.
JT I think that is right. Paul would be the full witness to that. He asks, “Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?” 1 Corinthians 9: 1. He meant just what we are talking about. He meant Jesus as He is in glory.
CMM Would that link on with announcing the Lord’s death until He come?
JT It would, because He will come as He is, you know, not as He was.
SPS Did you have any more in mind regarding John 14? You raised an inquiry as to whether it would be a spiritual matter or should we discern His body of glory.
JT That is a very good question, an important one for the brethren to think over. We have not much time to discuss it now, but it certainly is worthy of attention. Whether, according to His word “I am coming to you”, He comes only in the spiritual sense. Of course, we can well understand that He can do that, because the Holy Spirit is here and here permanently until the Lord comes. We can well understand that the Lord would come in the spiritual sense as impersonated by the Spirit, if I am right in using that word. The identification of the divine Persons is inscrutable, we cannot always distinguish them. We cannot speak of them as if we knew exactly, because divine Persons are inscrutable, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father could be impersonated by the Spirit, too, and the Holy Spirit, of course, is Himself, the Spirit. There is a divine Person here, actually here, today on the earth, not representatively, but actually, and [p. 93] that Person is the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Jesus Christ too. The Spirit Himself is spoken of as a divine Person speaking and acting, according to Acts 13. The Spirit of God acts and speaks of Himself. The Spirit said, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them”; He was actually speaking Himself. Well, now, that Person is here and He has been here all these years, all these centuries. It is the wonderful fact that we should take in. He watches us here today; maybe He is operating here now amongst us.
JC Would you say that until we receive the Spirit we cannot apprehend Christ in His glorified state?
JT That is important to note because until we get the Holy Spirit, we are incapable of taking in these things. A person may be born again, but there is a distinction between being born again and having the Holy Spirit. You will remember that in Ephesus, Paul said to certain twelve men, “Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye had believed?”, Acts 19: 2. Well, they were converted, undoubtedly, and they were so regarded, but they had not yet received the Holy Spirit. I believe they were defective. They said, indeed, that they had not heard that the Holy Spirit had come. They had not taken in what they could have taken in, because John the baptist had spoken about the Holy Spirit too, and they professed to be John’s disciples.
RJD I have a difficulty in linking up these appearings with what we have today. Paul says, “last of all ... he appeared to me also”. I had always thought that that closed the matter as far as that side of the appearings was concerned.
JT I think, I agree with you, that it does close the matter, but we cannot limit divine Persons. We cannot just say that the Lord cannot come as He came before, for He is a divine Person. He can do [p. 94] as He pleases. The Spirit would have us to leave it there, and say the thing is inscrutable. We cannot compass divine Persons as we can compass each other, and speak of each other; divine Persons are inscrutable.
FJF How would this be balanced by the thought that we are in the dispensation that is in faith?
JT It is the time of faith now; “Faith having come”. Paul says in Galatians. We are now in the time of faith, and it is the principle on which we are moving in this dispensation.
WOS Would these appearings have to do with what was inaugurated? The apostolic side is stressed in these verses.
JT That is good. The five hundred are not apostolic, but what you say is important, that the apostolic side should be stressed, and the first one that is appeared to is Cephas. Undoubtedly the name Cephas indicates assembly material. The Lord had in His mind assembly material when He appeared to Cephas, and then in the twelve He had in His mind, I would say, administrative authority; it was not the eleven, but the twelve, therefore it was after Matthias was appointed to the apostleship. Then He appeared to above five hundred brethren at once. This would mean the general thought of the brethren, the Lord had them all in mind. What a glorious thing it was to Him to have so many, and then Paul adds to that, that some of them have gone to be with Him! He says, “most remain until now, but some also have fallen asleep”. Then He appeared to James, that is to say, to one man, as if the Lord would take up some man for some purpose; He is able to do that at any time, and James would represent that. James is regarded in that light after Paul came in; Paul went to Jerusalem and had to do with James. Then it says “to all the apostles”.
The Spirit of God says “to the twelve” and then later to “all the apostles”. The word ‘apostles’ is evidently used to convey authority. They were twelve men who had a certain character of their own, knowing the Father and the Son. The Lord would appear to them in that capacity, in the capacity of apostles, and then Paul says further, “last of all, as to an abortion, he appeared to me also”, possibly alluding to what would happen to the Jews in the future; Paul as representing the nation being taken up prematurely, but anyway, he is one of the apostles here. He says, “He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, whom am not fit to be called apostle, because I have persecuted the assembly of God”. Paul is emphasising himself in this way, that he is an odd sort of man, not just one of a crowd, and yet he is the greatest of all of them, and his work is greater than that of all of them.
WSS So that the thought of these appearings is fundamental to the dispensation.
JT Quite so. I do not think it will have application to the Jewish remnant in the future, or even to the great multitudes that are spoken of in the book of Revelation from among the gentiles. I do not think there will be any such distinction put on these. The apostle is here bringing out distinctions that belong to us in the assembly.
FJF Do you think that his being caught up to the third heaven was also a time when he saw the Lord?
JT Possibly he did, but that is not brought out in the account that he gives of his experience. He said that he heard unutterable things, things that were not lawful for man to utter, and the Lord sent him a thorn for the flesh, that he might not be exalted above measure. He said that he did not know whether he was in the body or out of it, so [p. 96] that the matter must be left there. It was an inscrutable matter to Paul, and it is a good thing to recognise that which is inscrutable.
WSS Mr. Darby says somewhere that all Scripture has in it the germ of what is infinite. It is a great help, I feel myself, to remind ourselves continually in having to do with divine things, that we are in the presence of the inscrutable.