READING ON THE EPISTLE TO THE HEBREWS
READING ON THE EPISTLE TO THE HEBREWS
JP I suppose the race refers to the course of faith through this scene, and the point is endurance, and having the eye fixed on the goal.
JT Yes. The subject begins really in verse 35 of chapter 10. “Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompense. For ye have need of endurance in order that, having done the will of God, ye may receive the promise. For yet a very little while he that comes will come, and will not delay. But the just shall live by faith and, if he draw back, my soul does not take pleasure in him. But we are not drawers back to perdition, but of faith to saving the soul”, Hebrews 10: 35 - 39.
Ques Is the race individual or collective?
JT I think it is the ground you take individually. What is really before the mind of the writer is the position of a Christian here in relation to what God proposes to establish in Christ publicly. That is the goal before your soul.
The dates given in the book of Daniel are very interesting. Chapter 12 contemplates the last days, and the question is asked, “How long?” The answer is, “A time, times and an half”. Daniel 12: 6,7. That is from the divine side, as it would seem, it is very brief. Then Daniel himself inquires “What shall be the end of these things?” He is told that from a certain time it should be “A thousand two hundred and ninety days”. Daniel 12: 8, 11. This is apparently from the side of human experience, and from this point of view it is a protracted period. The whole period has to be traversed — one day after another — on the principle of faith, and for this endurance is required. Then we have “Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the thousand, three hundred and five and thirty days”. Daniel 12: 12.
[p. 351] The blessing lies in waiting and coming to the utmost limit of time divinely appointed. Full, eternal and unalloyed blessings lie at the end of the path of faith.
Ques The reason I asked the question is because the Spirit uses the word “us”. I had thought it might refer to a company running the race together.
JT But I think it is properly individual. The subject is opened up, as I said, in the verses I read from chapter 10, and these verses are a quotation from the prophet Habakkuk. In the prophet it reads, “though it tarry wait for it because it will surely come, and will not tarry”. Habakkuk 2: 3. The latter part only is quoted in Hebrews because it was a question of encouraging them to hold out. From the divine side it is “he that shall come will come, and will not tarry”. From our side it may appear that he is tarrying, but “the just shall live by faith;” hence it is “blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the thousand, three hundred, and five and thirty days”. From our side it is a long, protracted period of time (for we have to do the will of God), and hence the need for endurance.
JP So the race has to be taken up day by day?
JT Yes. It is not making a spasmodic effort and then relaxing. The idea is one thousand three hundred and five and thirty days, one after another. You wait and exercise faith every day.
JP God is not asking you to live on nothing.
JT The just shall live by his faith.
Ques Would you say one could not take up the path of faith apart from the light of the world to come?
JT God has brought in the world to come, which indeed is already established from the divine side; the believer is in the light of it, and lives by this. It is not only that you hear about things; faith is more than that. It is “the substantiating of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen”. Hebrews 11: [p. 352] 1.
JP It seems to me it would be very difficult to live by report simply.
JT Faith is more than that; faith is by a report.
Ques Would you say we have the substance now?
JT Yes: faith is greater than hope in that it substantiates to you now things that are still literally in the future; hence we live by faith.
Ques Is hope in connection with joy?
JT We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
JP If we hope for that we see not, we wait for it.
JT With patience. That is where blessing lies. The man who endures day by day, and comes to the end.
Ques Why is it that so many Christians appear to start very brightly and then give up?
JT The exhortation here is to prevent that: “Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise”. Hebrews 10: 35,36.
WJN Abraham appropriated that which had been revealed to him by God.
JT Although Old Testament saints embraced the promises, their position in relation to them differed materially from ours. They saw them afar off, but now that they have taken form in Christ, in whom all is yea, and all amen, Christians can be said to have come to them. Things are no longer in counsel, or purpose, simply: in Christ everything has taken form and subsists livingly. There is an immense difference between knowing a Man (the Son of God), actually in heaven as having accomplished redemption, and simply waiting for Him on the ground of promise. We know that the Son of God has come.
JB We are in the present blessedness of what He is.
JT And that is what we live by.
WHF Caleb and Joshua are great [p. 353] examples of faith. What often hinders people is fear of the giants.
JT The report brought back by the ten spies indicates that. It was unbelief.
Ques Is the objective point in Hebrews the rest?
JT The rest lies at the end of the course, but entrance into the holiest is present privilege. The rest is introduced in chapters 3 and 4 in connection with unbelief: they are warned against a wicked heart of unbelief, which would prevent entrance into God’s rest, but here the exhortation is to patient perseverance in the race. The Old Testament saints had to die without receiving the promise, and they were aware of this; the Christian looks for the change of his body, and the glory at the coining of the Lord. He does not expect death.
JP What should be before us is: “For yet a very little while and he that shall come will come and will not tarry”. Hebrews 10: 37. That is not death.
Ques Is this anything like entering into our inheritance?
JT I think the point here is that you are to come to the utmost limit of time, and that means the blessing. The blessing lies at the farthest limit of time, and faith is to be in exercise until then. “Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days”, Daniel 12:12.
Rem There is great encouragement in “Looking stedfastly on Jesus”. Hebrews 12: 2.
JT I think it is a great thing to get prominently before us that to which we are running.
Ques Do you not think the weights will drop off then?
JT Directly you have your eye upon the goal and that becomes an object to you, you feel the weights, and they are laid aside.
Ques What marks one who has faith?
JT I think the man who stands out prominently as especially witnessing to faith is the one in whom [p. 354] you get the main features of it. That is Abraham. He looked for a city, and he rejoiced to see Christ’s day.
JB We “rejoice in hope of the glory of God”, (Romans 5: 2) when everything will be in display, and God will have His rightful place.
RSS Wherein would that differ from Philippians 3, where Paul speaks of “looking towards the goal for the prize of the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”? Philippians 3: 14.
JT I suppose what the apostle had before him there was the distinct calling of Christians in relation to Christ on high; this is before us in the race, but Hebrews involves also the hopes of the Jewish remnant in the latter days. It will be a great encouragement to them that the coming of the Lord will be imminent; hence they are not to cast away their confidence, but endure to the end. But Philippians could not refer to such, for Israel will not consider their citizenship in heaven, whereas the Christian does.
WJN Does chastening come in here in the way of help?
JT It does. I think it would be a great thing for believers to make up their minds for the journey. The journey of faith may be long and protracted, but in it you prove that good and acceptable and perfect will of God; and then you have something to live by every day.
Ques How do you bring in the coining of the Lord in connection with it?
JT The coming of the Lord is the goal. “He that shall come will come and will not tarry”. “Though it tarry wait for it”. Habakkuk 2: 3.
Ques Would you say that His coming is included in His being the Finisher of faith?
JT He has already finished the path of faith, as it goes on to say, “who, for the joy that was set [p. 355] before him, endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds”. Hebrews 12: 3.
JP You see the whole course set forth in Him, but as far as He personally is concerned all is ended, because if that were not so, how could He be viewed as the Leader and Completer of faith?
JT The path of faith is really the path of life, as we learn from Psalm 16. That is, we live day by day. It is the path of life, although at the same time the path of suffering and sorrow.
JP You do not die on the road.
JB Neither do you grow old.
JT That is it: you do not grow old in the wilderness. When Caleb came to Hebron he was as strong, hearty and vigorous as he had been forty-five years previously, when Moses sent him out with the other eleven to spy out the land. There was no waning and growing old in the wilderness. “The just shall live by faith”. Hebrews 10: 38.
JP It is clear as to two men (Caleb and Joshua) and a good many others.
JT Take Moses: his eye was not dim, nor natural force abated at one hundred and twenty. That shows that he had been sustained by a vital principle — faith. “We also boast in tribulations, knowing that tribulation works endurance; and endurance, experience; and experience, hope; and hope does not make ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which has been given to us”. Romans 5: 3 - 5. That is the position of the believer. He is living. It is the path of life, and for every day. You do not grow weary of the days. A man rejoicing in tribulations, and with the love God shed abroad in his heart, is not complaining that the days [p. 356] are too many.
JP The inward man is renewed day by day.
JB I think a good many saints confuse the coming of the Lord as presented here in Hebrews with the coming of the Lord in the air according to 1 Thessalonians. It is not the same.
JT No, it is not the same. Here it is the coming of the Lord in a manifest way. The apostle says “Our light affliction which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory”. 2 Corinthians 4: 17. Like Jacob waiting for Rachel; the time seemed but a moment for the love he bore her.
JB If I were a hundred my spirit ought to be as young as though I were twenty.
JT That is very good. I do not understand a Christian becoming superannuated. Paul was not, nor Moses.
Rem Another thing we get in the pathway is the blessed experience of what the Lord can be to us in the trials we encounter.
JT The very things most repugnant to man naturally become food to the believer — tribulations.
JB I remember a brother saying once, “Faith thrives on difficulties”.
JT That is what Christianity involves. Whatever our circumstances, we live day after day in the enjoyment of the light of God in our souls. The unseen system of things is made good to you in your everyday life. It comes out in a man’s appearance. If he lives in this way he has a wonderful expression on his countenance always, and then too he is vigorous. His natural force is not abated: like Caleb, at the age of eighty-five he is able to contend with giants. We do not want youthfulness and vigour alone, but eyesight also. It is most important that a man should see, so as to take in the purposes of God. What wonderful eyesight Moses must have had when from the top of Pisgah he could view all the extent of the inheritance as shown him by God!
WCR [p. 357] We see many Christians like Samson: they lose their strength because they give up their Nazariteship.
JT Look at Lot. The vale of Sodom was to him like the garden of the Lord — an optical delusion. How many Christians are like that! It is simply poor eyesight. How different with Abraham! He saw Messiah’s day. What power of vision he had!
Ques Would you say we must be prepared in heart to leave our country, kindred, and father’s house, to endure to the end?
JT I think it is the light of God’s system that enables you to do that. You must add as to Abraham that he was directed to go into the land of Canaan and into the land of Canaan he came.
JP The way it is put is simple. It was by faith Abraham did this and that. All we need really is faith in this point of view.
JB An overseer of God’s people should not have an obscure vision — it should be clear.
JT The eyesight of all should be clear. Every man in Israel was supposed to look at the tent of testimony; and a blind man could not see it. You require to have eyesight to see the tent of testimony when it moves. The point here, however, is not that you may find your way, but that you may not grow weary in the race. You may know the way and yet not run the race with patience.
JP And in order that you may endure to the end you first dispose of every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset or entangle us; and the next thing, “looking stedfastly on Jesus, the leader and completer of faith”. Hebrews 12: 2.
JB By faith we begin the path and end it.
JP But a man of faith does not know any fear at all. If people do not want to go on with you, you can go on yourself.
JB And live all [p. 358] the time.
JT That is the point — you can live the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days, so to say, yourself. You are not dependent on any man. You can live by faith and the Lord will not forsake you. We see the end clearly before us. It is a great deal better to have people go on with you of course, and I do not suppose any of us shall have to go on alone, but at the same time that is the ground to take.
JP Yes faith is not vanquished by isolation.
WSN There are two things looked at here as hindrances; they are weights and sin.
JP It is not “the sin” as our authorised version puts it, but sin as such.
WJN If you saw a brother whom you thought was being hindered by a weight, how would you seek to help him?
JP Unless a person was really in the light of all that is set before us, and set to run the race, you could hardly touch him on the question of weights. They would not be such to him because he is not set for the race. He is not in the light of the world to come. He is living in this present world, I mean a Christian bent on being prosperous and bettering his circumstances here.
JT He is a very poor appraiser. He does not put the proper value on things. He does not, as the apostle says in Philippians 3, count whatever might be gain as loss for Christ.
WJN So when his eyes are opened to these things he commences to feel these weights, and is exercised to get rid of them.
JB I have known a great many brethren who have got on considerably in this world, but very few have made progress in the race.
JT It would be an immense thing if the Lord would give us some little help as to what is at the end, so that we should be marked off as people who are leaving this world and bound for another. I am sure [p. 359] every man of faith is delighted and supported too, by the company of others who have faith, but at the same time he lives by his own faith.
JP It is a wonderful thing to see the people of God moving onward out of this world. That is what God takes pleasure in. A most remarkable example is set before us here in the second exhortation: “Consider well him who endured so great contradiction from sinners against himself” Hebrews 12: 3. How that ought to come home to every one of our hearts! It is not Abraham now: no, nor Enoch, nor any such. It is Himself!
Rem I suppose the power of onward movement lies in the Spirit.
JT The faith of Christians is in the Spirit.
JB The Lord looked forward to the joy that was set before Him.
JT “Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy: at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore”, Psalm 16: 11. The path of life was opened right up to the glory.
RSS What would you say was the joy referred to there?
JT I suppose the deepest joy to Christ would be the returning as Man, as having accomplished the Father’s will.
JP I like the way Mr. Darby puts it: “Who, in view of the joy lying before him”. Hebrews 12: 2. There it was. What marked His path here was not joy: it was sorrow (although the deep joy of uninterrupted communion with the Father was ever there), but there was lying before Him that wonderful and eternal scene, all characterised by joy. The whole relationship was lit up, as it were, with the joy lying before Him.
RSS And I suppose we have the same stimulus?
JT “The path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day”. Proverbs 4: 18.
[p. 360] RSS Is discipline for our help?
JT It tends to clear our vision so that we might be taken up with the system of unseen things, hence they are enumerated in the chapter. It is to the end that we might be helped on the road. Through it we become partakers of God’s holiness.
JP I suppose it might be connected with “blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God”. Matthew 5: 8. If made partakers of His holiness one great gain is you see better; you have a wonderful vision.
JT It says, “follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord”. Hebrews 12: 14.
Ques In what way would you say we have come to mount Zion, the city, etc.?
JT We have come to them in the faith of our souls, as existing from the divine side. They represent the unseen, but living and abiding system of things which is before God, and into connection with which believers are already brought. I think we can understand that mount Zion must stand first in the order, because everything depends on what mount Zion represents — the sovereign mercy of God. When everything was lost in Israel on the side of the people’s responsibility God intervened in sovereign mercy, in David, who brought the ark into Zion. It is Christ risen, in whom all is recovered and established for God.
JP Then we get that wonderful refrain: “his mercy endureth forever”.
JT David gives expression to the psalm directly the ark is set in Zion. He is “the sweet psalmist of Israel”. It is really Christ who is the sweet Psalmist of Israel. He composes the psalm and then becomes the Leader in singing it, comp. Psalm 22: 22.
Ques Did you say everything depended on mount Zion?
JT Yes; everything depended on God intervening in His sovereign right of mercy. He intervenes [p. 361] in Christ, and in him recovers everything for Himself and for man. Consequent on this, singing becomes prominent: a choir is instituted by David, and a psalm composed. The record of the establishment of the ark in Zion is a wonderful section of Scripture.
JB David gave to every one a cake of bread, a piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine; and the passage ends with David returning to bless his house. It is exceedingly interesting.
JT The most interesting part to me is the delivering of the psalm to Asaph and his brethren. They are the singers, but David composes the song to be sung. The fact is that the Lord Jesus Christ has brought the singers into existence, and has given them their song to sing. All this is in resurrection.
Ques So then you would say that each thing here is presented in the order in which it is revealed?
JT I think each thing mentioned is spoken of in its own relation to the divine system: mount Zion; the city of the living God; myriads of angels; the assembly of the first-born; God the Judge of all; the spirits of just men made perfect; Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant; and the blood of sprinkling. These are the things believers have now come to, in contrast to what Israel came to in the desert of Arabia. They form the subject of God’s testimony rendered from heaven; hence the exhortation not to refuse Him that speaks from heaven. They give character to the speaking of God at the present time, and it makes it exceedingly solemn to turn away from this wonderful testimony.
RSS What is the relation of the last chapter to this epistle?
JT I suppose it is the external appearance of the believer. Chapter 12 gives you an idea of what a Christian is occupied with in his soul; what he is looking at with the eyes of his heart; and chapter 13 would show how he conducts himself before [p. 362] men.
JP In chapter 13 we get: “I will never leave thee nor forsake thee, so that we may boldly say, the Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shalt do unto me”. Hebrews 13: 5,6.
JT You are defended in the presence of men down here.
JP It should read: “Satisfied with your present circumstances”. Hebrews 13: 5. I think that practically that is a great point but the real secret of it is that in your soul you have the things hoped for substantiated by faith: and then we prove too that the Lord is our Helper.
RSS I do not think God would expect us to be satisfied with our present circumstances if it were not for what is in new.
JT Another thing comes out: you are outside the camp: “Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach”. Hebrews 13: 13.
GWH What is the thought in: “Remember your leaders who have spoken to you the word of God”? Hebrews 13: 7.
JT Remember those by whom the word of God has come to you. First of all, you have those who had spoken. They had passed off the scene: later on, verse 17, there are those who “watch over your souls as those that shall give account”. Hebrews 13: 17.
JP The former you remember.
JT Mr. Darby, for instance, in our own time. Often you get a lot of radicalism manifested; it is said that everybody is alike, and those to whom God has given ability to watch over His people are disregarded. It is of great importance that you recognise those to whom the Lord has given ability to take care of you. “Obey” them, it says. It is a great thing to recognise what God has given to others as well as what He has given to you. The Lord knows better than we how to place each one of us, and if He has given to some desire and ability to watch over and [p. 363] care for the souls of His people, they ought to be recognised.
JP It is a wonderful finish here.
RSS I would like to read the last verses: “But the God of peace, who brought again from among the dead our Lord Jesus, the great Shepherd of the sheep, in the power of the blood of the eternal covenant, perfect you in every good work to the doing of his will, doing in you what is pleasing before him through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for the ages of ages. Amen. But I beseech you, brethren, bear the word of exhortation, for it is but in few words that I have written to you”. Hebrews 13: 20 - 22.