REDEMPTION
REDEMPTION
JT We might have something that would tend to give the Lord His place in the affections of His people. The unfolding of the testimony, whatever the phase presented, involves the Lord’s having a distinct place in the affections of the saints.
JG Does this chapter present the thought of redemption in its widest aspect?
JT It is the result of redemption here — universal praise reverting to Christ the Redeemer.
WHF In chapter 4 the Lord is seen as Creator — here as Redeemer.
JT The chapters set forth the place the Lord shall have in the creation as quickened and redeemed — as its Creator and Redeemer.
WHF He has a claim to the universe on both grounds.
JT I think it would indicate the place He intends to occupy in the affections of the redeemed, and therefore in our affections; that is, if the Lord has redeemed us, He intends in that light to obtain a footing in our souls.
FL It would come out in connection with redemption, that the Redeemer must first have a title. It is not possible for it to be taken up by any one, but as the title exists, the Redeemer comes in to take up the title. So in connection with Israel, it is “My people” with Boaz and Ruth, Boaz had the title; the same was true in Jeremiah and redemption comes in on that ground.
RSS Is redemption the first movement on the part of God toward man after the fall?
JT I think so. It is important to bear in mind that God has in mind in the redemption of man an entirely new order of things. His thought remains the [p. 438] same as it ever was, though the man He ultimately obtains is not the same man that He lost, nor in the same order of things.
ARS I suppose the great thought is to get response from man.
JT And that brings in life.
RSS One can see that it would be hardly worthy of God merely to restore: He must bring in a better thing.
JP I Suppose God had a very distinct purpose before Him even in creation, but He could not reach it in connection with man in responsibility; so now redemption comes in and God’s thought is reached in another order of man. It is, “for thy pleasure”.
JT Life belongs to God, but now all are made to live through Man. Redemption and life come through Man — the Man Christ Jesus.
PAES There is no thought in redemption of God waiving any of His rights, but He takes them up in mercy.
JT Yes, and in Man. It is a great thing for Christ to have the place designed for Him; this scene, Revelation 5, shows Him as having His place in the affections of the redeemed.
JG Does chapter 5 carry us further than chapter 4?
JT No. In both Christ is pre-eminent. Chapter 4 involves life; there are living creatures.
JG But He is seen only as Creator there, and here as Redeemer.
JT But the Creator is a very great thought. Chapter 4 presents the creation, in its four representative heads, as fully owning the rights of Christ as Creator. It is a living scene: the creatures live.
RSS Would chapter 4 in any way contemplate the eternal state?
JT No; it is the throne of God in connection with the creation. So the rainbow appears, and a living creation is seen represented in the beasts. God is true to His covenant.
[p. 439] JP It is a wonderful conception of the creation that all is acceptable and suitable to God, and suitable that He might have His pleasure in it.
RSS In connection with creation what God had before Him was life; that was His great thought. In connection with the eternal state is it not the same thing though perhaps in a different way?
JT No doubt it is, but chapter 4 contemplates the millennium rather than the eternal state.
RSS I simply meant a sort of analogy as to life.
JT That is true as to life.
JS Will you speak of the living creation?
JT It is a creation made to live by Christ. The testimony in itself will not effect anything; with the most perfect presentation, there is nothing effected. Aside from Christ, the life-giving Spirit, there is nothing subjectively accomplished. It is a wonderful thing to see Christ infusing life into the new creation. Aside from the introduction of life there is no response to God, no matter how perfect the testimony. Everything with breath is to praise Him. The testimony will not give breath, nor will the gospel. There are two thoughts in connection with life: firstly, it is potential; secondly, it is a sphere and order of things. The introduction of life by the life-giving Spirit is potential: the creation becomes active Godward; the vital principle is infused into the whole creation. Death is entire inability to answer to God. On the ground of redemption the Lord infuses life into His disciples. He says, “Receive the Holy Spirit”. John 20: 22.
R.S.S. That is potential?
JT Yes. In Ezekiel it is seen most markedly in the valley of dry bones. The prophet is sent to speak to the dry bones, but speaking does not make them live. The four winds blow and breath comes into them, so that they stand up. We must understand breath.
WHF That would indicate life communicated by Christ as Head of every man.
[p. 440] JT As last Adam. God did everything in Adam’s case, Adam could do nothing. In the new order Man (Christ) does all.
ARS The old creation was dead and Christ comes in and brings life. He speaks, and would you say that all who hear Him live?
JT Not quite so. He does not only announce life in the gospel, He infuses life.
ARS What about John 5: 25, hearing the voice of the Son of God: “and they that hear shalt live”?
JT In that chapter it is a question of the greatness of Christ. Those who hear the voice of the Son of God live — such is the greatness of His person. Still for life there must be the transmission of the Spirit of life.
ARS How is life eternal imparted?
JT That involves a sphere of things; it is not what we are speaking of. The Son has power to quicken; man must be made to live, to stand on his feet. After you have reached that you are put into relation with others who are standing: the boards of the tabernacle have to be regarded separately, but, as standing, they were all bound together.
ARS Does the Spirit correspond to the wind in the valley of dry bones?
JT Yes.
JG God breathed into the first Adam and he lived; the Lord breathes into the disciples and says, “Receive the Holy Spirit”, (John 20: 22) and they live.
JT There is nothing for God subjectively apart from the Spirit, though there be the most perfect presentation of truth. In chapters 4 and 5 God prophetically reverts to creation and Christ is seen in connection with it as Creator and Redeemer. The Lord intends in redemption to get a footing in man’s affections; we see here a redeemed creation responsive to Christ A new day dawns for every believer when he realises that Christ has a right to him. He has a right to you and every natural desire must be surrendered [p. 441] to Him. That is what redemption means. He has a right to redeem and He has done it. Job said “I know that my redeemer liveth”. Job 19: 25. We can go further than that; we not only know that He lives, but we know Him — the Redeemer. You must surrender yourself to Christ — it is a question of righteousness.
Ques Are purchase and redemption the same thing?
FL There is a slight difference between purchase and redemption; a liability lies on the property; an encumbrance on it, and that must be removed by the one who has the right to do it; not every one has the right. Redemption comes in as lifting liabilities. A stranger can purchase, but he cannot redeem. We must remember that the Lord bought, but He discharged all liabilities. The final effect is that Ruth is joined to Boaz.
JT It is a great thing for the believer to come to the point that he belongs to another. On that ground service comes in; Christ has a right to us. The Levites were taken up on the ground of redemption. A redeemed person is to hold himself for God. You are His by right of purchase. If the Lord has bought me, I must acknowledge His claim. This shuts out all other claimants, your own will and everything else.
FL The ear is bored though, we cannot go out. “The love of Christ constraineth us”. 2 Corinthians 5: 14.
JT But it is the Lord’s title by right of redemption first; we are His absolutely. Service as thus looked at is a matter of simple righteousness. The service of sons is privilege.
FL Love also is found in that — “I love my master ... I will not go out free”. Exodus 21: 5.
JT Yes. The title, however, comes first whether or not you have a good master. Then when you come under His influence, you love Him. But the point where we are weak is the point of righteousness; no [p. 442] matter what the attractions around us, we must yield. The question should be raised in every conscience.
JP It is a healthy moral tone to maintain in the conscience. It would do away with slipshod Christianity.
JT The primary idea with the believer is not voluntary. You have no right to volunteer; you are His already.
R If we could volunteer we could boast, but now we have no right to boast.
JP In connection with Philemon, we see that the slave is the Lord’s freed man, and the master is the Lord’s bond man.
JT We must not think it is not open for us to offer ourselves from another side. In the early part of Numbers the Lord asserts His right to the Levite, and the Levite has no choice, but in chapter 8, the Levite offers himself. As simply redeemed we do not offer ourselves, and that fact excludes all fleshly activity, but when the Spirit has worked in us, and we offer on the ground of genuine affection, then the Lord accepts us. If you offer yourself as a man in the flesh He will not have you. Service ought to be carried on in affection, but Christ’s title is the first thing and you have to submit. The consecration of the Levites supposes that they are come to years. This means in our case that we have come to maturity by the work of the Spirit. The Levites were to be twenty-five or thirty years of age when entering on their service.
FL In Romans 6 service is in connection with righteousness. This leads to holiness and eternal life.
JT You recognise the will of Christ, and none other. His will must prevail. “If I will that he tarry till I come”, etc. John 21: 22. The will of Christ prevails. In Numbers, male Levites of all grades, from a month and upwards, are taken account of by God and held for service, but to take up service and carry it into effect depends on the [p. 443] Spirit.
FL You would guard (and have guarded in your remarks) that there is the spontaneous service which is the outcome of a delighted heart: “Let my son go that he may serve me”. Exodus 4: 23. We do not lose sight of that.
JT No, that is the only service which is really acceptable; service should be carried on in love.
ARS How would you explain that scripture in Isaiah, “Who will go?” and the prophet answers “Here am I; send me”? Isaiah 6:8. That looks like a volunteer.
JT That is all right provided you primarily recognise the claim of Christ to you. “What wilt thou have me to do?” Acts 9: 6. There is the full recognition of the claims of Christ over your soul. In this country any man who is of age may volunteer to enter the army, but in others it would be entirely out of place to volunteer, because there is a question of legal obligation. The Lord does accept the voluntary service of love; the Lord will never spurn affection, never; that is what He appreciates. He does not assert His right over you when you have affection for Him, but He does when you do your own will. In Christ’s kingdom His authority is absolute. The principle of man’s government admits of lawlessness. If the Lord were king He would assert His right over every subject.
Ques Is the chief end in redemption, service?
JT No; it is that the Lord should have His place in the hearts of His own; as the Lord is rightly known as Redeemer He gets His praise from us.
Ques What does service consist of?
JT It is primarily connected with the sanctuary; the Levite stands in that connection. He was in connection with the tabernacle.
Ques I suppose you must be in the light of priesthood to understand Levitical service?
JT Levitical service depends on priesthood. Service as Levites depends on an inward spiritual state.