SOUTHAMPTON - READING (2)
[p. 348] SOUTHAMPTON — READING (2)
Hebrews 11: 1 - 3; Hebrews 12: 22 - 29; Hebrews 13: 10 - 17
JT These passages afford material for our consideration in view of completing the epistle. First we have the continuance of the thought of faith, and although the whole of chapter 11 is taken up with the subject, it is thought that these three verses give a lead as to it. Then what we have come to, in chapter 12, is also in mind in the verses read, and finally the verses read from the last chapter furnish the completion of the subject, as it will be seen. They refer to our leaders, and to the thought of the sacrifice of praise to God, and it is thought that that would furnish a good finish for us.
Faith, of course, is the great feature of the dispensation from the standpoint of light. Presently we shall have a change, as most of us will be aware, with a view to the millennium, and after that there is something that is needed to complete all the dispensations. We say ‘all’ because there are a certain number of dispensations and the end is said to have come on us; that is to say, those of us who form the assembly are to bear the burdens of the end of the dispensations. There will be an eternal condition, of course, the new heavens and the new earth, and that will have to be considered by itself, but there is no time for that now. But faith is the main thought now as the governing principle of the present dispensation. Of course the Spirit is the power, but the governing principle is faith. So we have here: “Faith is the substantiating of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen”. It is well that each of us, especially the young people, should have these words in mind. They are easily received into the mind, and ought to be kept there as governing the [p. 349] dispensation in which we are. Then we have a history of faith running through the whole chapter, so that we can fix our minds on certain personages from the very outset, from Abel onwards. It is always wholesome that young people should have in their minds certain persons whom God has used and whom God has set forth as models to us. But before finishing, it was thought that we should come to what is in the last chapter, that is, the altar, and the exclusiveness of it. “We have an altar” implies the exclusiveness of ‘our altar’. That might well be fixed on with chapter 10, which we had this afternoon. That chapter finishes with this — “But the just shall live by faith; and, if he draw back, my soul does not take pleasure in him. But we are not drawers back to perdition, but of faith to saving the soul”. That is a very good and wholesome word, especially for the young people. Constantly we hear of persons drawing back or turning aside, and these verses are intended to check that in us. Then we have the full account of faith, or we might say, the history of it in chapter 11. It has forty verses, and you could hardly get a chapter in the Scriptures more calculated to provide wholesome, happy, conversational ministry than this one. It contains so much in the way of holy, spiritual thoughts that can be very easily taken in.
AH In chapter 10 verse 37: “For yet a very little while he that comes will come, and will not delay”. Does the apostle bring that before us to encourage us in the line of faith, and then bring in the witnesses of chapter 11?
JT Yes, just so. It is especially calculated for young minds, because what is said can be easily retained and connected with historical things — spiritually historical things — and these persons can be spoken of as guides that God has given for us, whom we should [p. 350] follow.
FW Would it be right to say that faith involves experiences with God, and the result would be praise to God?
JT Very good. Experience with God is the idea of the book of Psalms. There are five books and they are full of experience with God, worked out in men.
NKM Would experience with God be involved in what he said in verse 2. “For in the power of this the elders have obtained testimony”. Would they be those who had experiences with God?
JT Just so. The elders are always to be a guide to the young. In the so-called christian world, the word ‘bishop’ is used, but the word ‘elder’ is the proper one. They are specially spoken of in Acts 20 in relation to the Ephesians.
AH Will you enlarge upon that expression, “Obtained testimony”? Is it that they had the inward confirmation?
JT Yes, that is the idea. It is what these honoured men are; they are known in heaven. The list is given from the very outset and goes right down to the very end of the Scriptures. They are doers of exploits, spiritual exploits, affording distinctions to those that have them, and God loves to give these distinctions.
AJG In the faith that marks these men and what they did, was God building up in the way of testimony constructively the features of this present dispensation?
JT I think that is right, because it is the dispensation of faith. This is the only dispensation that can be called the dispensation of faith. Would you say that?
AJG I think so, I wondered if it would help if you would enlarge on that and show how it differs from previous ages when these persons [p. 351] walked by faith.
JT Well, quite so — they walked by faith. God taking account of them because of their exploits and because of the way they are distinguished. God loves to think of them and of these great features before Him, beginning at the very beginning with Abel, I believe God would encourage models, like Paul, who could say, “Be my imitators, even as I also am of Christ” — he is the great model for us, under Christ. I believe that every young person should have it in mind to have him as a model, because he is a man like ourselves. He is not a divine Person, he is just a man like ourselves, and he enjoins that we should be followers of him, as he was of Christ.
Ques Does the narrative in chapter 11 bring these personages near to us, so that chapter 12 says, “Let us also therefore, having so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us”?
JT Just so, I suppose surrounding us would be the idea that you can take account of them, and speak of them. Instead of speaking of certain men in the world, distinguished by the world’s history, we take pleasure in men that are distinguished in heaven — known in heaven, and we shall see them there too. We shall see Enoch and all the others. It is a glorious thought to have in our hearts — what we are coming into in the sense of sight-seeing — persons who are now to be imitated. So that it says in the chapter that has just been referred to, “Let us also therefore, having so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, laying aside every weight, and sin which so easily entangles us” — that is especially intended for the young — “run with endurance the race that lies before us, looking stedfastly on Jesus” — again we have it, as we have had it already — “on Jesus the leader and completer of faith”. Sometimes it has been suggested that the Lord did not have faith, but this is a clear statement that He had, and that He exercised faith.
JRUB Does not Luke’s gospel specially illustrate the faith which the Lord exercised. His life being traced from boyhood right through to the end?
JT Just so.
ISE This chapter deals with certain persons and then brings Jesus before us as the leader and completer of faith. Is the Spirit intent on drawing our hearts and thoughts now right away from any material system and fixing them steadfastly on Jesus as the Originator and Completer of faith, so that we go on on that line ourselves?
JT There could be no greater Guide or Example for us. He is the Leader of it and the Completer of faith, and He is there to be watched and seen and contemplated at any time. As John says: “We have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father, full of grace and truth”. There is the standard and example for us, and One to be, so to speak, holily admired.
JSE Is it a view, if one may so speak, of another glory of this Person who has already been presented to us as the great Priest?
JT Just so. He is the great Priest, and we are also called ‘priests’. The priest is a technical name for a person of skill, who has to say to God and to say to men too. “Such a high priest became us, holy, harmless, undefiled, separated from sinners, and become higher than the heavens”; that is our Priest.
Ques May I refer to the note to the word ‘stedfastly’ in the beginning of chapter 12: “Looking stedfastly on Jesus”? It means looking away from other things and fixing the eye exclusively on one. One system fades away and another one, centring in Christ, fills the vision. I was wondering whether it would bear on what you have just said.
JT Yes, I think it is a wholesome thing to think of being in heaven. There are certain ones that have [p. 353] gone into heaven. The Lord Himself, of course, has gone into heaven, as it says, “angels and authorities and powers being subjected to him”. He has gone into heaven personally; the cloud received Him out of their sight. That gives rise to a great deal that has to be understood in our souls, how He went up, and what is the termination. In Stephen’s case He was seen standing. But the Lord has sat down, too, it says, “He ... sat down”.
MK I should like to ask if faith, as the gift of God, is given by measure? If we look down at this wonderful chapter of those who had faith, one feels how little faith we have got. I was wondering whether we have a measure of faith; some have greater faith than others.
JT Well, that is quite true, clearly.
MK I was only wondering how we arrive at it. Whether it is a matter of being tested or whether the faith is given by measure. I was thinking of the faith of Abraham in offering up Isaac. I did not know whether we have such faith; have we all the same faith and the same measure of faith?
JT We have not got the same measure of faith, clearly; nor do I think you can get it in Scripture that we have.
MK Then it means that it is given by measure by God, is that so? Some do have a greater measure than others.
JT Well, that is quite true.
Rem The scripture proves that, does it not: “For I say, through the grace which has been given to me, to every one that is among you, not to have high thoughts above what he should think; but to think so as to be wise, as God has dealt to each a measure of faith”, Romans 12: 3.
JT A measure of faith — very good. That is the thing exactly.
AJG [p. 354] Then in addition to that we have in 2 Thessalonians 1: “We ought to thank God always for you, brethren, even as it is meet, because your faith increaseth exceedingly”. So that faith can increase if it is used, can it not?
JT Quite so.
Ques Is it not remarkable that God should have these men that He can bring forward, and histories well authenticated, to show what He really had in them, substantially?
JT Just so, and then what pleasure He has in us, too. Think of the idea of greatness; we have had the great priest, and the idea of greatness is usually set out in the Lord Jesus. Whatever you look at, you can get the example of it in the Lord Jesus as Man.
FVW Beginning very early, “Thou art he that took me out of the womb; thou didst make me trust, upon my mother’s breasts. I was cast upon thee from the womb”, Psalm 22: 9, 10. That would show how early it was with Jesus, prophetically.
JT Just so.
GCS Is the increase of faith seen in Abraham? He is called the father of the faithful, and from verses 8 - 17 in this chapter it looks as if it is the increase of faith until it comes to the greatest thought in the offering up of Isaac. Is that so?
JT Yes, it is remarkable that Isaac is not said to have come down from the mount with his father; he stayed up, as it were. That is what you get in Genesis. Abraham had the greatest exercise about him, and then you get Rebecca immediately in the end of the same chapter — the bride.
AJG Does that typically refer to the “some better thing for us”, which is referred to in verse 40, the assembly’s distinctive portion?
[p. 355] Ques Is it not remarkable that, whilst the chapter deals with persons who have faith, the actual matter of creation is brought in in verse 3?
JT It is the beginning of the subject: “By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by the word of God”. And then another thing comes in immediately as to the worlds, and that is, how many there are — can we say? We are just left to consider whether they can be numbered, but apparently they cannot be numbered. It says in chapter 1, “By whom also he made the worlds”; the Lord Jesus did that — God did it by Him. So that we just have to leave it as an indication of His greatness — that He did it. So that everything that comes up that can be seen in man is first seen in Him fully, and perfectly. We thus have the idea of admiration, so that our hearts rejoice in such a Person, and that He is our Saviour and Lord. “He is thy Lord, and worship thou him”. Well now, we have not time to go over the ground in chapter 11. It is so marvellous and full, but we have to come on to the other scriptures that have been read. In chapter 12, we get the things we have come to, and then in chapter 13, the final thought is “we have an altar”, implying the exclusiveness of our altar. That is giving us a distinction above all others, even in the future. No one has an altar like ours. So that the very greatest things next to the Lord Jesus are set out in those who form the assembly. The hope is that the end of what we have been engaged with today may lead to admiration in our hearts, especially with the young people — admiration of the Person of Christ. God is pleased to give us these names that all lead up to Him: “the leader and completer of faith”.
AH Is the reference in verse 22 of chapter 12, “Ye have come to mount Zion; and to the city of the living God”, to emphasise [p. 356] the living character of this dispensation as over against the deadness of judaism?
JT Very good, I would say that fully, and then following that we have the “heavenly Jerusalem”, because such has come down from God out of heaven. She does not begin on earth; she has come down from God out of heaven, and we have come to that. So that if anybody raises questions as to anything in this world, it simply fades into oblivion in the light of Christ and His things — the things above.
AH Would you say that these things that are referred to, to which we are said to have come, could be brought in under the heading of the ‘unseen world’? I am enquiring because you have been drawing our attention to the need for being acquainted more with heaven, and what is proper to heaven. Is this what faith apprehends — the unseen realm?
JT Well, yes — that which is not seen. “The things that are seen are for a time, but those that are not seen eternal”. ‘The unseen world’, if you are entitled to call it as you are; well, we have come to that. It is the thing that we live in, as it were; it is one of the things in connection with which we are living.
Ques I suppose in a certain sense the assembly is seen?
JT It is, indeed. We are indwelt by the Spirit of God, and besides we are all born again. I mean to say, that transaction takes place in every one of us, but then the total, of course, is the assembly. We have not come to the end yet, we have to wait for it, but it is going to be finished. It is very glorious to think that it is presently going to be finished, every ‘stone’ will be found there. Peter speaks of that — “living stones”. They will all come in in time, but we have to wait for them, however. So that the end now is the time of waiting — waiting for the most [p. 357] glorious thing. It is not a divine Person, of course, but the assembly is the most glorious thing beside divine Persons.
Ques Have we come to these things in coming into the assembly, where the presence of the Spirit is?
JT Just so. I can see that it is similar to what we are coming into, when we are changed according to 1 Thessalonians 4. We will be like the Son, like the Lord Jesus, as it says, “We shall be like him”. John says, “for we shall see him as he is”. What a glorious anticipation! “We shall see him as he is” — not as He was, but just as He is now.
HAH Would mount Zion coming first refer to the immovability of this glorious system?
JT Very good — the immovability of it. “Ye have come to mount Zion”. It is not a simple mountain; it is a spiritual thought; it really belongs to heaven.
NKM What does mount Zion imply? You said it was a spiritual thought.
JT Yes, it is. It is brought into the New Testament. It began with David, as far as I remember, but it belongs to the New Testament.
HAH It is said to be “the joy of the whole earth” in Psalm 48.
JT Yes.
ECM “Jehovah loveth the gates of Zion more than all the habitations of Jacob”, Psalm 87: 2. Are not the gates of Zion, over against our dwellings, connected with the divine dwelling place?
JT Just so.
AJG Does it refer especially to the sovereignty of divine mercy?
JT Just so; ‘sovereignty’ is just the word.
AJG The end of Psalm 78 seems to indicate that. It refers to the blackest period in Israel’s history when the ark was lost and God greatly abhorred Israel, and then it says in verse 65, “Then the Lord [p. 358] awoke as one out of sleep, like a mighty man that shouteth aloud by reason of wine; and he smote his adversaries in the hinder part, and put them to everlasting reproach. And he rejected the tent of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim, but chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved; and he built his sanctuary like the heights, like the earth which he hath founded for ever”.
JT That is, David and Solomon are in mind. Solomon is the builder of the house; Solomon was accepted instead of David himself, showing that it is Christ that is in mind for the builder of the house.
Ques Is it not brought in here as in contrast to mount Sinai, the mount that could be touched?
JT Quite so, that is what is said there. “For ye have not come to the mount that might be touched and was all on fire, and to obscurity, and darkness, and tempest, and trumpet’s sound, and voice of words; ... but ye have come to mount Zion; and to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem”.
JSE Does mount Zion link us on with the sovereignty of divine mercy and divine love so that we could observe with freedom the whole range of divine thoughts, ourselves being the subjects of them? I wondered if that is why the things we have come to begin with the thought of a mountain.
JT And so we have the idea of greatness in the divine realm, and the personages — persons who are great, beginning with the Lord Jesus Himself. The young people ought to come into this, and be delivered from the world and all its greatness which is passing away. The greatness in the divine system is headed by the Lord Jesus, and we are amongst the great personages ourselves. The proper way is to look at the thing as it is, that we are amongst them ourselves; we belong to them. Think of the glories that we are coming into! I believe this list in Hebrews 11 is to enhance all that in our minds, so that we [p. 359] refuse and turn away from what there is in the world, whatever it may be, because it is passing away, and the lust thereof. The word in John’s epistle is, “Love not the world, nor the things in the world ... the world is passing, and its lust”. We are so apt to be taken with what is immediately under our eyes, and that is what belongs to this world, and it is passing away.
AJG So that we can well afford to glory in belonging to the city of the living God.
JT Quite so. I suppose the divine end is seen in the mount of transfiguration — how the Lord came out there. Those that saw Him knew Him. There were Moses and Elias, and the disciples knew them, so that we can say, without question, that we shall know all these great ones. We shall know the Lord Himself, supreme among them.
Ques Does it not appear that the assembly is made up of personages? The word here is, “and to the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven”.
JT I suppose it might be read ‘firstborn ones’. The allusion is to the Levites — every one of them was a firstborn. It is an extraordinary thing — the firstborn — “the assembly of the firstborn”. I think it is the plural idea. What a scene of attraction and glory is open to us, so that we are delivered from this present evil course of things.
Rem So that our affections and intelligence are fully occupied in this system and thus we are kept out of the present world in every sense.
JT Very good. So these distinctions are marked off throughout the Old Testament as indicated in this eleventh chapter in the great personages that shine out there. Great women, too, are mentioned as well as great men.
ETS Why are the myriads of angels brought in [p. 360] here?
JT I think it is what God has. The word ‘myriads’ would be to indicate what He has got. Sometimes the question is, how many angels are there? We cannot tell how many there are, and we cannot even tell when they were made. But we can tell about men, and of course that brings us into the realm of Christ, where Christ is; He is greater than an angel. It says that “he has not subjected to angels the habitable world”, but Christ is the One; He is the head of everything.
AST Could you say that the myriads are needed because of the services they render to the “holy myriads” (Jude 14)?
JT Well, that is the idea, but the expression “holy myriads” refers to what God has.
Ques Do the angels suggest to us God’s hidden reserves, entirely outside the range of the natural mind? The Lord could speak of being furnished with more than twelve legions. He did not require them, but they were evidently there.
JT Quite so, and we know how one angel destroyed one hundred and eighty-five thousand men: That shows the magnitude of this system. It is well to talk of this, because the young people here ought to become enamoured with all these things, and drawn into them. They should see that they belong to them, to the whole scene.
Ques Is it rather like the prophet asking for the young man’s eyes to be opened? Seeing the chariots of fire around the man of God left a lasting impression on him, did it not?
JT Just so, exactly.
Rem It says, “to myriads of angels, the universal gathering”. Universal gathering seems to bear upon the angels.
JT Well, that shows what we have come to — the magnificence of it.
[p. 361] Ques Do you think it all seems to have in view that we should “serve God acceptably with reverence and fear”, as we get in the end of the chapter?
JT Just so. Then as has just been remarked, the myriads of angels are covered by the idea of the universal gathering, showing the number there are of them.
Ques Does their being called the ‘universal gathering’, also show that nothing could arise in any part of the world where their services are not available? I was thinking of the pressure the enemy is bringing on many in different parts, and whether this should not encourage us to a more universal outlook.
JT Just so. Fear comes into the heart; we have been through two great wars and it may have distressed us from time to time, but these great things that we get in this chapter, show that we belong to what is greater than anything of the kind that we might be afraid of. The Lord said, “Fear not those who kill the body and after this have no more that they can do”. They are limited. But then when you come to God and His things and the angels, it fills you with feelings of victory, but victory in the true sense of what is in heaven.
ECM Is it not very beautiful that the Lord Jesus in Luke 22 accepted angelic service? It says. “An angel appeared to him from heaven strengthening him”. Is that not a great encouragement?
JT Quite so.
JD In chapter 1 of Hebrews it says. “And again, when he brings in the firstborn into the habitable world, he says, And let all God’s angels worship him”.
JT Quite so: “Let all God’s angels worship him”. So that the Christ is supreme, whatever way you look at things. But then He is a Man — think of Him — and marked by lowliness; so that we might well follow such a spirit.
[p. 362] Ques Is it not affecting that He is spoken of as “Jesus, mediator of a new covenant”? I wondered whether it would be an appeal to our affections that the glories that He has officially do not add anything to His Person. What He is in Himself personally is the thing that holds the heart.
JT Just so. You cannot add anything to God — He is God, “He is the true God and eternal life”. You cannot have greater than that. But still He has come down to us as a Man, and it is to give us something to be charmed with — that is the idea of it. We are to be full of the thought of His greatness and glory and attractiveness, because the word ‘beauty’ is attached to Him several times.
HFN Is the thought of God here the great objective in this epistle? Is that the point to which we come in the Hebrews?
JT I think that is right.
HFN Would “God, judge of all” involve that we have reached the settlement of every moral question that has been raised in the universe? Is everything solved for us when we come to God?
JT Solved — yes.
NKM Would you say a word about “the spirits of just men made perfect”?
JT ‘Just men’ — you have in your mind, I suppose, it is the idea of such men. It is not great exploits, but “just men made perfect”. I suppose that would be in resurrection. We must apprehend these just men, that they are made perfect; anticipatively they are made perfect. It is anticipative of the resurrection. The dead in Christ shall rise first, and all the just men will be there.
AJG It means that we have come to that in faith in our souls.
JT I think that is the idea.
AJG So that we shall see Abel and Enoch, as you were saying — “just men made perfect”.
[p. 363] JT We would greatly like to see the young people begin to admire divine Persons, and then divine things, coming down to ourselves even — those who form the assembly, for the greatest family outside of divine Persons is the assembly. God is “bringing many sons to glory” — many sons. He is bringing them to glory.
AH Are the great truths of christianity, as over against judaism, involved in this expression, “We have an altar”?
JT Well, just so. “We have an altar” — it is an exclusive idea. “We have an altar of which they have no right to eat who serve the tabernacle”. That is to say, the Jews, or whoever there may be around us who serve the tabernacle — anything of that kind, they have no right to our altar; it is something entirely beyond anything they have. Take the Romish system; what kind of altar they have, and what show they have! But it says here, “We have an altar of which they have no right to eat who serve the tabernacle”, and I would say that that especially refers, at the present time, to the Romish system. They have no right to what we have, but we just take it on, and think of ourselves in that light because it would tend to enlarge us spiritually and holily, too; it would enlarge us in holiness.
Ques Would you link the altar here, in any way, with the Lord’s supper?
JT Yes, I suppose so. It is something that is used to offer on. I think the Lord’s supper is involved in it. We have that. The altar would be something that we offer at; it is, so to speak, a religious term, but the point is that we have it. That is to say, the apostles’ ‘we’ peculiarly belongs to Hebrews. “We have an altar of which they have no right to eat who serve the tabernacle” — that is to say, they have some religious system of things, but it is not to [p. 364] be compared with what we have. I think that is the way the thing should be reached in our souls. And it goes on to say. “For of those beasts whose blood is carried as sacrifices for sin into the holy of holies by the high priest, of these the bodies are burned outside the camp. Wherefore also Jesus”, — here again we have Jesus — “that he might sanctify the people by his own blood, suffered without the gate; therefore let us go forth to him without the camp, bearing his reproach”. I think that is an excellent passage for all persons who want to come into fellowship. It is a question of what they come into; what is ready for them in the fellowship we are already in — that is, we christians who have the Spirit of God. So it goes on to say: “Therefore let us go forth to him without the camp, bearing his reproach” — whatever the world may think of Him or have thought of Him — that is it, “His reproach” — “for we have not here an abiding city” — that is, here on this earth. However great the city may be in London and New York and so forth, we are not thinking of them — “we have not here an abiding city, but we seek the coming one. By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of the lips confessing his name. But of doing good and communicating of your substance be not forgetful, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased”. And then it goes on: “Obey your leaders”. Earlier it was, “Remember your leaders”, but now we are to obey them. That is to say, God has given them power, and they are to be obeyed; it is a very remarkable thing, as we may well observe. “Obey your leaders, and be submissive”. It is the character, or spirit, of the person — “be submissive; for they watch over your souls as those that shall give account” — that is the leaders of the saints shall give account to the Lord — “that they may do this with joy, and not groaning, for this would be unprofitable for you”. I think we might well stop at this, because it is very wonderful for us to get it in our souls and go forth with it.
HW Have you in mind that the use of the definite article — ‘the coming city’ — indicates God has just one city in mind?
JT I think so. It is the one we have already talked about in chapter 12 as among the things we have come to. “To the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem” — that is the city.
AH At Maidstone you used the expression, ‘inside the veil, outside the camp’. Is that the moral order of the truth?
JT That is right — so we have it here. “Therefore let us go forth to him without the camp, bearing his reproach: for we have not here” — that is, here on earth — “an abiding city, but we seek the coming one” — that is, the heavenly Jerusalem; that is our city, “By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise continually to God”. So, as I was thinking, this paragraph indicates to us, as it were, what we should depart with. If we are about to depart from one another for the moment, this is the thing to depart with. “But of doing good and communicating of your substance be not forgetful, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. Obey your leaders, and be submissive; for they watch over your souls as those that shall give account; that they may do this with joy, and not groaning, for this would be unprofitable for you”.
AJG Do you think that in every locality leaders should accept responsibility before the Lord for the saints in the locality?
JT I do, and also, I suppose you would say, enlarging on to the whole universal company, because we ought to be universal. We are going to be that, and we are, indeed, in truth. You would say that, [p. 366] I am sure.
AJG Quite so.
JT We are coming to a universal company; the greatest company on earth, from every point of view we may think of. The greatest company there is in heaven or on earth.
Rem It makes the position outside the camp very attractive.
JT It does, indeed.
JPH Would you just say one word, please, as to this touching allusion to the blood? “Wherefore also Jesus, that he might sanctify the people by his own blood, suffered without the gate”. Is His blood shed to set us apart in a holy way, for the holy things that you have been speaking of?
JT I think so; by that you should weigh the chapters in the gospels just immediately before the Lord’s death; what shame attached to it. He was bearing His reproach. It says even the disciples all forsook Him and fled — a most touching thing — He was left alone. It is a very good thing to have in our minds to sober us, what the Lord went through just as He was about to be put to death. There was the mockery heaped upon Him too by Pilate and the priests; all this is a very wholesome thing to think of. It sobers us, and it enlarges us too as well, because we become more and more like Him.
Ques Would “the fruit of the lips confessing his name” extend to young believers doing it for the first time?
JT Well, just so, get them to confess. It is a good thing to get people to confess, and to make a confession that brings them into reproach, because Moses esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt.
Ques And is verse 16 of chapter 11 encouraging in that connection? It says, “God is not ashamed of them, to be called their God”.
JT Just so.
Pages 367 - 403 — “Ministry in U.S.A. and Great Britain 1932 to 1937” (from Volume 190).