MANCHESTER - READING (2)
[p. 20] MANCHESTER — READING (2)
Ephesians 1: 15 - 23; Ephesians 5: 22 - 33
JT It seems clear that the epistle to the Ephesians was intended to convey the full divine thought as to Christ and the assembly. It will be noted that in this epistle it is not simply man and woman, but husband and wife. Then there is the great place that Christ has according to this first chapter, and then we have the remarkable passage in the last verse of the chapter, “gave him to be head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all”. So that whilst God is in mind, and the assembly is in mind, and the saints are in mind, yet it is Christ and the assembly that commands the heart and affords opportunity for us to understand and enter into what is set out in the land of Canaan, for Ephesians has Canaan in mind. It is therefore that part of the land which lies between the Jordan and the Great Sea in which the full thoughts of God are set out. So I suppose we may say freely that we get possibly the greatest thoughts of riches and glory in this epistle. The Spirit of God seems to put everything into it, as if it was the final word as to what God has in mind and what will come to pass in due time as Christ descends and takes us to heaven. We are to be prepared for it already in view of that great event, I thought it would be worthy of an occasion like this to come to Ephesians, for it is our own proper heavenly portion, and I thought it right to begin at this verse of the first chapter, “Wherefore I also”. Paul is thinking of himself and his service, “having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which is in you, and the love which ye have towards all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, making mention of you at my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory” — these are wonderful expressions — “the Father of glory, would give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation”, it is not simply ‘words’ or ‘letters’ but the spirit of wisdom and revelation, “in the full knowledge of him, being enlightened in the eyes of your heart”, it is not simply your minds, “so that ye should know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what the surpassing greatness of his power towards us who believe, according to the working of the might of his strength, in which he wrought in the Christ in raising him from among the dead, and he set him down at his right hand in the heavenlies, above every principality, and authority, and power, and dominion, and every name named, not only in this age, but also in that to come; and has put all things under his feet, and gave him to be head over all things to the assembly” — notice that — “which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all”. So that Christ is supreme, and the assembly is with Him joining in it, for the assembly is seen here as having part in the headship.
AHG Would you develop a little more what you emphasised, “head over all things to the assembly”?
JT It is just to bring out the greatness of this vessel called the assembly. It has to be remembered however that it is a creature. The assembly is not divine, and yet it is wonderful that the creature should be the bride of Christ and body of Christ. But it is a mystery, and we do well to think of that. So that in chapter 5 he says “I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”. He is speaking of the husband and wife, but he halts, as it were, to say “I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”. It is as if he would set us on the way to enter into the heavenly things.
[p. 22] Ques Do you mean that he is not Head over the assembly here, but that the assembly has part in the position in which He is?
JT That is what I understand. It is “head over all things to the assembly”. It is not of it, but to it.
AJG Does that involve that the influence of His headship over all things is exercised by means of the assembly?
JT That is what I would think. It is by means of it, as you say, showing what a marvellous thing the assembly is. It says “Christ also loved the assembly, and has delivered himself up for it”. You could hardly think of anything greater to be given. He gave Himself for it.
WSS The assembly would be in the intelligent understanding of the universal headship of Christ.
JT Just so, that is good.
PL So that the glory of these reciprocal relations between Christ and the assembly will give tone and character to all that is beneath.
JT I would say that. The word over is used, “head over all things to the assembly”. She is thus really brought into the headship.
JSE Was the type in Genesis 2 approached by the Spirit from the angle of rest?
JT Well the word is that the rib was built. It says “Jehovah Elohim built the rib that he had taken from Man into a woman”. It is an immense thought.
Ques Would it be right to say that Adam as set over all things and Eve as associated with him correspond to what we have in Ephesians 1?
JT Just so. And we had better read again from verse 22 of chapter 5, because it is such a wonderful passage as to what we are dealing with. Now it is to be noticed that whilst the apostle is speaking of much in the way of truth, yet he turns aside in verse 32 and says “This mystery is great”, which is a matter we all should notice, and then he says “but I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”. He turns aside to speak of the great thought of the mystery — Christ and the assembly. It is as if he was so full of it that he must turn aside, even although they were great things of which he was speaking.
Ques Why do you think the “Saviour of the body” comes in in this remarkable passage?
JT I think it is a question of our bodies, which are weak and subject to illnesses and the like. We can count on the Lord to save us instead of trying medicines and the doctor. Of course, I am not saying a word against that, but it is as if everything is superseded in his mind, in the light that He is the Saviour of the body. So we can count on that; it shows the preciousness of a saint as a member of the assembly.
Rem The wonderful thing being that in these bodies of ours we are given the privilege of being descriptive of what is proper to the assembly.
JT Just so. He says “I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”. It is as if that diverted his mind, because the thought was so immense in his mind, so delightful, I should say glorious, that he should turn aside to say that.
JP Is there something to be learned from the way the passage says “I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”? He seems to draw attention to what is in the assembly.
JT There are more words devoted to what is in his mind than necessary, so to speak, because the subject is so great and lovely and glorious. I believe that is the idea, and that we should learn to read Ephesians from this point of view. It is not simply a man and woman, but a man and his wife — husband and wife. Then the word ‘own’ comes in. “Husbands, love your own wives”, and also, “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands”; it restricts the word fully to its object.
WSS I suppose that expression, “I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly” would really cover all Paul’s ministry?
JT I should think so. He reduces it to one great and glorious thought; that is what Ephesians really implies.
Ques You emphasised, in the reading of the scripture earlier, the expression “the Father of glory”. Were you thinking of the particular glory, attaching to Christ and the assembly and how we can come into the light of that glory as understanding, and as being filled with the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of Him?
JT It is a wonderful passage — “the Father of glory”. Elsewhere, we have “from glory to glory”, but this passage is wonderful really, it is overwhelming if we had heart for it. It is what we are coming into and that is what we are now by the Spirit, because the fact of the Spirit being in the assembly is wonderful. He is the Spirit of glory, but then we have the “Father of glory”, and that is the thing that strikes your mind peculiarly.
WSS Another word you emphasised was “the spirit of wisdom and revelation” — not merely the knowledge of things in terms, but the joy of it in the heart and soul.
JT Just so. It is what we come into, even ourselves this very day, the Spirit being here, makes everything real to us. It is not mere knowledge, but reality in the power of the Spirit.
Ques Is that why it says “enlightened in the eyes of your heart”?
JT Just so. The heart is the seat of the affections, of course, and the eyes are to work out what is in [p. 25] the heart.
JSE You made a short remark this afternoon on the value to us of Paul’s imprisonment in view of his ministry.
JT I think that is to be noticed too, because we might all profitably go over the ground of his imprisonment and how many years of imprisonment he spent. The Lord had said previously “I will shew to him how much he must suffer” (Acts 9: 16), which shows that the Lord had taken him up for suffering. He was intended to represent the Lord in his sufferings, and to bring the sufferings of Christ so near to us in a man, in Paul.
EuR He tells us it was on our account: “For this reason I Paul, prisoner of the Christ Jesus for you nations”, Ephesians 3: 1. It is really our glory, is it not?
JT It is well to connect other passages with that because the field is so rich; and so chapter 4: 1 would enhance all that, “I, the prisoner in the Lord, exhort you therefore to walk worthy of the calling wherewith ye have been called ...” It is the enlargement of what you see in the first verse of the third chapter. The epistle to the Ephesians is so full of spiritual riches and glory.
Ques What is in mind in relation to verse 30 where it says “We are of his flesh, and of his bones”? In Genesis 2: 23 it is in the reverse order.
JT The passage really begins with verse 28, “So ought men also to love their own wives” — notice that it is not simply ‘their wives’, but “their own wives as their own bodies: he that loves his own wife loves himself. For no one has ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as also the Christ the assembly, for we are members of his body; [we are of his flesh, and of his bones]”. That portion in brackets is, of course, questionable, but anyway there it is. “Because of this a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall be united to his wife, and the two shall be one [p. 26] flesh. This mystery is great, but I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”. That is the end that I thought we should see the epistle is devoted to. “I speak as to Christ, and as to the assembly”.
Ques Would you say a word regarding the distinction between the assembly as introduced in the first chapter in connection with the operations of God in resurrection and exaltation, and as in chapter 5 where it is brought in in connection with the operations of Christ Himself in love?
JT Well, it seems to be the greatness of the assembly and how it is linked up with Christ as His body, but we should not overlook that God is in the whole matter. We ought to remember that the Lord Himself sent letters to the assemblies, and so His idea is to bring out what the assembly is to Him. That is really what it is, and now we should follow the thing up; so that we have what the Spirit says in addition to what the Lord says. “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”. That is, there is the double thought in it, what the Lord says by Himself, and then what the Spirit says, and the word is added to that, “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says”. It is as if there is the idea that the Spirit’s speaking is in a certain sense more important for us to follow up than even what Christ says. The importance of the Spirit at the present time cannot be over-stated because it is a question of the ending of the dispensation, and the Spirit coming into what belongs to Him, as a divine Person. He has always shown Himself so lowly in everything that the Lord’s word in Revelation is “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says”.
EuR It greatly helped me some time ago when you said that the spirit of revelation involves that the believer has the spirit of all that is revealed and thus ability to take it [p. 27] in.
JT Quite so. One is trying to impress the dear brethren who are here today that we all may pursue the thought of the book of the Revelation. John is the writer of the Revelation, “I John”, he says. The other apostles, of course, have their own part in the service, but John has a peculiar part. He was not however a minister of the assembly, as Paul was, and it is Paul writing to the Ephesians here, so that Paul comes first in all this.
AJG Would you say that the Spirit is labouring at the present time to bring the assembly into the consciousness of her own distinctive place in the affections of Christ?
JT I think so. That is, she should suitably meet Him, because He is coming. It says in 1 Thessalonians 4, “the Lord himself, with an assembling shout, with archangel’s voice and with trump of God, shall descend from heaven; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we, the living who remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall be always with the Lord”. It is the Lord Himself — those words should be taken into account — who shall descend from heaven with an assembling shout. The word assembling is enlarged in the sense of its governing the word shout. We are all coming in for that; we ourselves are the ones that are coming in for it, for we are of the assembly. It is a question of the assembly; it is not an Israelitish shout. The Lord will have great feelings for Israel too; but it is not an Israelitish shout; it is an assembling shout.
Ques And does that really involve absolute love towards all the saints?
JT Quite so. The Lord’s own affections. It is an assembling shout.
WSS I would like to ask in connection with your reference to the Holy Spirit, whether the service [p. 28] of the Spirit would be involved in verse 26 of chapter 5: “in order that he might sanctify it, purifying it by the washing of water by the word”?
JT Quite so, it must be. It is the Spirit of God, of course, but then the Spirit is a divine Person. We do not say that in the economy He is equal to the Father positionally; at the same time what was before? The economy is, as you might say, limited, and introduced in time. There was something there before that we do not understand, it is mystery; it is beyond our understanding. There is the economy into which we have come, the power is in the Spirit, but there is something more than that, and we have to remember that there is such a thing as mystery, and things that one can hardly put into speech now. But there it is, that there is such a thing as mystery, and that the assembly is the theme as the vessel of the Spirit. That is what strikes the mind more than anything else — that it belongs to us because we form the assembly, and I would say without hesitation, Ephesians, in that sense, is the greatest epistle; it is the greatest communication from God that we have.
JSE As the Lord makes Himself known to us in the breaking of bread, does this give the Spirit an opportunity to help us in the joy of these relationships so preciously set out here?
JT So we value the Lord’s day morning, because, as we have said already today, the first day of the week is the greatest day; it is the day of the assembly: “The first day of the week, we being assembled to break bread”. That is the great day of the assembly because it is the day on which the Lord’s supper is celebrated, and so in the chapter we had this afternoon, the apostle says, “It is not to eat the Lord’s supper”. It ought to have been, but it was not; they were defective in what they were doing, they were not doing it in order. Therefore we must be on our guard as to whether we are [p. 29] doing things rightly, that is doing them in order, for God is the God of order.
Ques Would you encourage the saints to pray about these great features of the truth? I am thinking of the weight of these two prayers of Paul.
JT I would say that. To illustrate it, if a great crisis comes on among the brethren as it may at any time, what we would do would be to pray; maybe we would come together specially in any given locality to pray about the matter. But what can there be greater than what we are dealing with now, that is in this epistle, and there should be prayer about this matter because it is so great.
Rem We do not often hear prayer along these lines.
JT I am sure that is true, but do you not think it is so?
Rem I do.
JT If any crisis arises, and one is apt to arise any time, not that I would be foreboding; one would just wait on God. But at the same time, things may happen, as things have happened before and a crisis may arise, and then, of course, we pray, but why should we not pray about this matter and make a special thing of it, that we should come into the fulness of what is called Canaan. God speaks of having espied the land, espied it Himself for His people. He says, it is “the ornament of all lands”. It was a land flowing with milk and honey (Ezekiel 20: 6).
Rem Caleb says, “Moses the servant of Jehovah sent me from Kadesh-barnea to search out the land; and I brought him word again as it was in my heart”, Joshua 14: 7.
JT That is just exactly what I was thinking of.
Rem And he goes on to say, “And my brethren that had gone up with me made the [p. 30] heart of the people melt; but I wholly followed Jehovah my God”.
AHG Is the understanding of the glory of this essential if we are to take up the service of God intelligently?
JT Exactly, that is what we are trying to get at this evening, this great thought of the epistle to the Ephesians.
HC It says of Moses in Deuteronomy 34 that Jehovah showed him the whole land from the top of Pisgah. Would that link up with what you are saying?
JT That was a great privilege that Jehovah gave to Moses before he died, and no one knows where he was buried. How great an honour to be put upon the mediator!
JTS You spoke in London of Paul presenting the assembly as the body. Have we the greatest thoughts of the body in this letter?
JT I think so. As I said, I do not know any greater passage, in a sense, than the epistle to the Ephesians. It is a peculiar epistle; it is the assembly’s epistle, and it deals with Christ and the assembly. Of course, God Himself comes into it, for we can never forget what God is and what His portion is, but there is such a thing as something special as to Christ and the assembly, and that is in Ephesians.
Ques In verse 23 of chapter 1, it says “the fulness of him who fills all in all”. To whom does the word him refer?
JT First of all it says, “Power, and dominion, and every name named, not only in this age, but also in that to come; and has put all things under his feet, and gave him to be head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all”. That is Christ; what do you say yourself?
[p. 31] Rem I do not know that I could say very much; but it is such a marvellous statement as to the assembly’s place that we can hardly take it in.
JT I think the wording that has been re-read would show that what is in mind is Christ and it works out in chapter 5. If you will allow me, I would like the whole passage from verse 15 to the end read again, because it is so magnificent. We ought to get this whole passage into our minds and hearts, “raising him from among the dead”, that is Christ, “set him down ... in the heavenlies” — that is Christ again. It is clearly Christ who is in mind in that passage.
WSS Would it help to refer to verse 10 of chapter 4, “He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens, that he might fill all things”?
JT Well, just so.
DL And verse 10 in chapter 1, “To head up all things in the Christ”.
JT Well, that is right, of course.
AJG Does not this expression “the fulness of him who fills all in all” give a striking testimony to the deity of Christ?
JT Quite so.
EJB Is the greatness of the assembly stressed in the fact that after all these glorious things are spoken of that God has done with Christ, the assembly is brought in as the crown and completion of it all?
JT Quite, but then we must not forget God. God must be excepted in all these things. It says in 1 Corinthians 15, “except him who put all things in subjection to him”, that is God. God had done this. In the passage from verse 20 onwards, it is what God has done and does.
Ques Can you help us as to the expression “fulness of him”?
AJG [p. 32] Could you amplify that a little as to what we are to understand by it?
JT Well, we have such an expression as the fulness of God; that is a question of God. It may be the fulness of God, and sometimes the divine Persons are interchanged, and it might be the fulness of Christ. It is a question of words and how they are used and their context.
PL It is a scene of glory, “the fulness of him”, is it the outshining?
JT Quite so, it would be that.
JSE Is it the Holy Spirit’s peculiar emphasis on the distinctiveness and glory of the assembly as suited to Christ?
JT I would say that is quite right.
AJG And does it involve that all that can be known of God by the creature shines out through Christ and the assembly?
JT Quite so. All that can be. It is good that a modifying word should be used, because we might just as well come back again to what is abstract, for there are abstract things. Take the Godhead; we have in Colossians 1, “all the fulness ... was pleased to dwell”, and then in the second chapter, “in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”. Well, both these things have the same meaning, but where we have “all the fulness” it seems to accentuate more the thought that it is Christ in His greatness and glory; it is Christ Himself, “In him all the fulness ... was pleased to dwell”.
AHG Would this thought of “the fulness of him” be the result of what is spoken of earlier “and gave him to be head over all things to the assembly”?
JT I would say that. But I think we had better go on to chapter 5 again. How much God is thinking of His own thoughts now in this book as compared with 1 Corinthians. He has His own thoughts [p. 33] before Him, what He has in Christ and the assembly. So it is that we have in verse 22, “Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord, for a husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly”. Then again “He” — it is emphatic — “is Saviour of the body. But even as the assembly is subjected to the Christ, so also wives to their own husbands in everything”. So now what came to my mind to be enlarged on is that He is Saviour of the body, and then again “even as the assembly is subjected to the Christ”. That is to say the assembly is not simply subject here, although it is subject, but the question is what God’s mind as to it is. That is to say it is subjected to Christ, not simply subject, but subjected. It is God’s mind, and that always has to be kept before us. The attitude of the assembly is that it is subjected to Christ. It is God’s mind as to it as in the whole realm of creation. God has His mind, and He has got His mind in this point that He has subjected the assembly to Christ.
JTS Would it be worked out in the way of love?
JT It would be, surely, nothing less than love will fit here. But still we have to keep in mind that there is such a word as ‘subjected’, not simply ‘subject’ but ‘subjected’. It is God’s mind as to the assembly, and that would work out in being subject.
CH Can you help us as to the aspect of the assembly in chapter 1 where she is seen as wholly of God and in this chapter where there appear to be blemishes which call for the service of Christ?
JT It is not said there are spots or blemishes, it is just what is required in the mind of God.
JSE Does the note relative to those words help in that connection? It says that these words: ‘loved’, ‘delivered’, ‘sanctify’, ‘purifying’, may be coincident [p. 34] or consequent one on another. They could be taken either way.
JT Spots and wrinkles and such things are all possible. These words are to prevent them, because they are possible in our histories.
Ques Is the great thought the words, “having no spot, or wrinkle, or any of such things”?
JT Quite so, it is the idea of prevention. The assumption is not that the spots or wrinkles are there; but that they are prevented. We know ourselves they are possible to any one of us.
Rem So that at any given moment the assembly is perfect in the mind of God.
JT Exactly. It can be taken up to heaven at any time. Viewed in the abstract way, it can be taken to heaven at any time.
EuR Does not the last part of the verse make that very clear, “but that it might be holy and blameless”? The same words are used of the sons in chapter 1.
JT It is in order to prevent anything of the kind, because it is possible to happen.
EuR But you are applying that to those who form the assembly rather than to the assembly as such?
JT I do not think it would be right to apply it to the assembly as such because, viewed in the abstract, the assembly is at all times ready to be taken up to heaven. To learn how to view things abstractly, is one of the most difficult things we have to do.
Rem A pearl is a pearl, and in that light the assembly has no spot or wrinkle that has to be removed from it.
JT I suppose so, I do not know enough about pearls; but I can see that there are things that are liable to mark us but not attaching to the assembly in a concrete sense as altogether according to God.
[p. 35] Ephesians means that; the language is anticipative.
AJG Would you say that there is something that corresponds with this service of Christ when we are together in assembly to enable us to take up the abstract thought in our own minds?
JT That is true; how could we dare to bring in such thoughts otherwise? We must remember there is such a thing as abstract. Scripture is full of that, especially John and Paul. The assembly is always viewed abstractly as perfect.
JTS Would the Lord say, in that abstract view, “Thou art all fair, my love; and there is no spot in thee”? Song of Songs 4: 7.
JT Very good, that is right.
PL The Holy Spirit being the great power for abstraction?
JT Quite so.
Ques Does chapter 5 bring out the correspondence between the humanity of Christ and that in which the assembly has part? I am thinking of the words “no one has ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as also the Christ the assembly”.
JT Quite so. It is to bring out what God has ordained in humanity in the creation of it. Then if we suppose we are just about to be caught up to heaven, and we shall be presently, our mortal bodies are changed by the Spirit. Then we are perfect and ready for heaven, and so shall we be for ever with the Lord. We are going to be perfect as the One who is perfect and who is up there. It is a marvellous thing to have an abstract idea of the things of God before us.
AJG And that can take place in the twinkling of an eye.
JT Yes, that is what it says.
Ques Could you please clarify for some of us the expression that has just been used, that the Spirit [p. 36] will bring in the change, and Philippians 3 where it says, “we await the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour, who shall transform our body of humiliation”?
JT We should read both those passages, “But if the Spirit of him that has raised up Jesus from among the dead dwell in you, he that has raised up Christ from among the dead shall quicken your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you”, Romans 8: 11. “We await the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour, who shall transform our body of humiliation into conformity to his body of glory”, Philippians 3: 20, 21. That is to say it is the Lord’s own action, but then it is also the Spirit’s action.
AJG Do you mean that the Lord uses the Spirit for that purpose?
JT Yes, quite so, “on account of his Spirit which dwells in you”.
WSS Is it not speaking of the abstract? You referred to the abstract, and is it not our great privilege to contemplate things in the abstract?
JT Yes, I am sure it is. As soon as we move from the earth by the power of Christ and the quickening power of the Spirit, everything is perfect to go into heaven.
Rem “Into conformity to his body of glory”.
JT Quite so, the Lord is going to make us after His own pattern.
Ques Are the two operations in that way brought together in 1 Corinthians 15? It says, “the last Adam a quickening spirit”, and then later, “We shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed”, as though the two Persons of the Godhead operate in view of that change.
JT The last Adam is Christ, and the Spirit is the Spirit, and He is the One who quickens us according to Romans 8: 11, “on account of his Spirit which dwells in you”. If you read it again, you will see the point of it.
[p. 37] EuR The change is only with regard to the body.
JT The mortal body, that is, we are taken up to life as quickened by the Spirit.
EuR That involves that the believer is ready for it now and consequently can function in the service of God.
JT We are if we are. When we are ready, when we are caught up, all is finished. I mean to say, it is one of the actions of the Spirit to do that. We are not ready for it until we are ready, and when we are ready the thing will happen.
PL And that will be the crowning service of the Spirit.
JT It is a great finish to a great work, but then the Spirit’s work is not over because He will be here operating in Israel in a millennial day. There is a great work to be done yet; but the assembly, is being taken up first and finished, and we are waiting for the finish because we are not all ready. It is a question of time to be perfected.