RESURRECTION (4) - THE DIGNITY OF THE HEAVENLY COMPANY
[p. 212] RESURRECTION (4) - THE DIGNITY OF THE HEAVENLY COMPANY
WB-s Do you think this scripture would crown what we had this morning? In Luke you get the company and here the Person.
JT Yes. And hence the dignity of those who have part in the resurrection, which is another thought, and, as regards us, perhaps the greatest thought.
EHT Do you mean relationship?
JT I mean the dignity of those who are regarded as having part in the resurrection. One feels confirmed that in understanding the four records of the resurrection you have in your soul a wonderful foundation; the power of God; the character of the vessel in which the testimony is maintained; the order of humanity that has come in for God; the dignity attaching to those who are the companions of Christ as having part in it as His brethren. The latter is the most important side of the truth for us.
WCR What would the two angels in white garments signify?
JT I think in John the two angels would point to the deference and honour paid to the Lord in view of His dignity. It was a question of the spot where He lay. It is not a question of power, but of the spot where He had lain.
RSS “The one at the head, and the other at the feet”.
JT Yes. Such care and interest are shown. The references to the clothing and the napkin, all showing the greatest interest in the spot, on account of the Person who had lain [p. 213] there.
BTF Speaking about the spot, was that in line with the new sepulchre wherein man was never laid?
JT That, too, was a matter of divine interest and care. His murderers had “appointed his grave with the wicked, but he was with the rich in his death”, (Isaiah 53:9). That was a matter of divine care, and now that He has left the tomb for ever, the interest shown on the part of the angels, suggests to us the place that He had with them; the adoration in which He was held.
AFM The character of things here is private in contrast to Matthew, where it is public.
JT Yes. One can see that the angel with countenance like lightning, and he sitting on the stone, had reference to what was outside, to the power, of evil. The young man of Mark 16, on the other hand, would, as we have seen, suggest to us the energy in which the testimony would be maintained. But here in John, it is that which is peculiarly sacred and private. It was profound heavenly interest evinced in the angels sitting in this position, at His head and at His feet.
AFM As elsewhere in this gospel, “the world seeth me no more”. (John 14:9) He does not appear in public any more; it is all with His disciples.
JT So that a worshipping spirit arises in the heart, and that is what we get in John. If the gospels do not produce that in us, they do not effect their complete work in us.
WCR Do we not see in connection with Mary, and John, and Peter, a great concern as to His Person, the same concern as was evinced in the angels?
JT Mary was there thinking of His body.
WCR And Peter and John as to the place.
AAT Do you think that is the point that Paul had before him in writing to Timothy: “And [p. 214] without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels”? (1 Timothy 3:16)
JT Yes.
JLJ Angels looked down on His body and took account of Him as Man.
JT When you come to the end as John presents it, the scene becomes intensely sacred. It is a question of the affections being engaged, and it produces a worshipping spirit.
BTF In Psalm 91 we have: “For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways”. (Psalm 91:11) Would you in any way connect this with that charge?
JT “They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone”. (Psalm 91:12) They had watched His feet. Angels had been the custodians of His feet and His head. The woman in Luke 7 anoints His feet, and so also did Mary according to John’s report, but in Matthew she anoints His head.
AFM His head in Matthew and His feet in John.
JT The feet refer to His walk and the head to His dignity. The woman in Luke 7 showed how she appreciated those feet. It was a question of what they had carried to her. Whereas in John 12 it was not simply what they had carried to Mary; she anointed Him in view of His burial, in view of the cross. His Person was before her.
WCR In Romans we have, “How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace”. (Romans 10:15) That is what His feet brought to the woman in Luke 7.
JT That is it. “How beautiful upon the mountains” (Isaiah 52:7) is said in Isaiah. One can understand how she appreciated those feet, for what they had carried to her. I think the feet and the head taken together suggest to us what Christ was here as Man [p. 215] on the one hand, and what He is in His own Person, His dignity, on the other hand.
ST What is the point in what is said of the priests who were carrying the ark of the testimony, that when their feet touched the Jordan it fled?
JT It is an allusion to Christ. It was when His feet touched death.
WCR Men dishonoured His head in putting a crown of thorns on it.
JT The anointing of His head by Mary was in contrast to what man had put on His head.
GAT Do the affections of Mary represent the affections of the assembly?
JT Yes, and ending in worship. The gospel of John produces a worshipping spirit in the saints.
JLJ Their affection in bringing the spices in Luke 24 sets forth the affection that comes out in worship.
JB In John 12 the house is filled with the odour of the ointment.
JD Do you distinguish between the dignity of the Head and the dignity of the position in which His brethren stand to Him?
JT Our dignity is necessarily defined by His. Would you not think so?
JD I was wondering if in this place it refers personally to Him.
JT That necessarily comes into view first.
JD Do you mean that the dignity of our position lies in our affinity of nature to Him as His brethren?
JT Yes, of course; they had no dignity in themselves. Their dignity lay in what the message conveyed. I mean that the light of their position is contained in the message sent to them.
JD I am supposing the relationship to be there.
JT The nature comes in afterwards. There must have been nature and affection suited to the relationship, but there must be the light of the [p. 216] relationship first. We have here the message conveying the light of the relationship, and the Spirit coming in afterwards; “he breathed on them”. The breath of Christ is that which produces subjectively what corresponds to the relationship contained in the message. Their dignity lay in the light contained in the message, just as a title conferred upon you by a superior confers dignity. The title gives you your position, but then you require support for that position. In fact, you require education for it.
JD I had no thought that they stood in any relationship to Him at all until He put them in that relationship, but once the relationship is known it lies in the affinity of nature.
JT Affinity of nature would exist after they received His breath.
JD I think so.
JT I feel it would help us enormously if we were enabled to read John’s gospel, having in view that there might be a worshipping spirit. The assembly should be permeated by that. We were dwelling this morning on reconciliation. Reconciliation in result is really what we are to one another; what God sees in us in our relationship with one another, and apart from that we cannot approach. But when we come to John, we have suggested to us the idea of approach. We not only approach as reconciled, but we approach in dignity. Reconciliation alone is not enough, for I think reconciliation is general. Reconciliation is a general thought; all things are to be reconciled; but you require dignity to approach.
ARS Is the dignity the position of being His brethren?
JT Quite so.
EHT In John 2 the Lord makes the water wine, showing His dignity in bringing joy into the whole universe, and Nicodemus at the end brings a hundred [p. 217] pounds of spices; he is at the full height of worship.
JT Quite so. In our relationship with one another, we express what God delights in here on earth, but when you turn to God, you do so in the light of the dignity of your relationship with Him.
JD That is what I was going to ask. What is the value of relationship?
JT It is that it gives title to approach — to enter the holiest.
JD It is close to sonship.
JT It is sonship, though not mentioned.
BTF Would you not say that John’s gospel particularly educates the soul in the divine nature so that we may rise to the dignity of our position?
JT And whilst it does that for us, it maintains the dignity of the Lord’s Person, so that while you are in the enjoyment of your own dignity, as related to Him, a worshipping spirit pervades you.
BTF Would you connect that with the Father seeking worshippers?
JT That is the point. John alone speaks of that, and if he conveys the mind of God as to what God is seeking, you may look for the means by which it is supplied. God does not simply intimate what He desires, but also the means by which that is to be supplied; and I think John’s gospel does that.
AFM In Psalm 133 you have brethren. In the last Song of degrees you have, “Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless Jehovah”. (Psalm 134:2) That is the same idea.
JT Psalm 133 is what is for God’s pleasure (reconciliation), and hence there is blessing publicly, but Psalm 134 is God’s portion within. “Bless ye the Lord, all ye servants of the Lord, which by night stand in the house of the Lord”. (Psalm 134:1)
AAT Does not the measure in which we appreciate the Person of the Lord help us in the enjoyment of our [p. 218] relationships?
JT I think so. Everything is arrived at in your soul by considering Him.
JD The Lord’s personal dignity is always prominent. So, whilst you enjoy the dignity of your own portion with Him, you have at the same time a worshipping spirit in accord with Christ.
WB-s Does that accord with Hebrews? In chapter 1 you get that He is anointed with the oil of gladness above His companions, and in chapter 2 you get His brethren; that is, His dignity in the first chapter, and our place with Him in the second.
JT One feels how admirably the wisdom of the Spirit is expressed in an epistle like that to the Hebrews; He first lays the foundation in the soul as to the greatness of the Lord’s Person, and then He can build up the truth in regard to our dignity as associated with Christ. So the end reached in Hebrews 7 is, that “such an high priest became us”. (Hebrews 7:26) The us there is where the emphasis is; he can well afford to emphasise the word “us”, because he has already laid the foundation as to the unique place of Christ; hence the importance of our having it thus in our souls.
GAT Would Hebrews 2 and John 20 go together: the Sanctifier and the sanctified are all of one; “go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God”; relationship claimed in heaven and on earth.
JT Along with that you have the word, “I ascend”. That is unique to Him. That guards His Person.
JLJ Does not John 20 go beyond Hebrews 2? Those who come into the blessing of the kingdom on earth enjoy Hebrews 2, whereas John 20 carries us into our position before the Father as His sons.
JT I do not think, that they will come into Hebrews 2 in the sense of “he that sanctifieth and [p. 219] they who are sanctified are all of one”. (Hebrews 2:11) That is peculiar to the assembly.
EHT Is not John greater than Hebrews? In Hebrews you get praise, but in John worship. Worship is higher than praise.
JT You hardly get worship in John; chapter 12 comes near it, but the thought that the Father seeks worshippers.
RSS You intimated a little while ago, that if the question of worship is raised, and the Father seeks it as stated in the earlier part of the gospel, it would be indicated how God’s end is reached, and how we reach it. Can you say a little on that?
JT I think it is reached on the lines on which we are dwelling now. The dignity of the Lord’s Person is brought before us; so that John’s gospel, in a sense, is the greatest of the gospels, and so it treats of God’s direct dealings with the soul. You do not get any official intermediary in John as in the other gospels. The other gospels present what is official, whereas in John you find the Lord dealing directly with souls. Many instances you find in John’s gospel of the Lord holding personal interviews with souls. For instance, Nicodemus, the woman of Samaria, and the man in chapter 9. All these are indicative of this, that it is a question of God dealing directly with souls. The official class is ignored.
RSS Will you give an instance of the official class?
JT In chapter 4 there is a striking instance. The disciples had gone into the city to buy bread. That casts a slight on them for they had all gone and left the Lord. He was alone, but as alone He is engaged with the spiritual. He says in chapter 3, “The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand”. (John 3:35) Things were not given into any other hands. The Son is dispensing it all Himself. So in the next chapter He says, “If thou knewest [p. 220] the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink, thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water”. (John 4:10) That brings out His Person. He is endeavouring to give that woman’s soul an apprehension of Himself in His dignity. I think the disciples ought to have been there. I have no difficulty in making that remark. There was no need that they should all have gone into the city. Buying provision was a secondary matter, and He was left alone.
AMcB In John 6, in feeding the multitude, He does not hand the food to the disciples, but directly to the multitude.
JT I had not thought of that. It is a very good connection; it shows that the official class is not formally owned in John.
AMcB I am glad you called attention to the Lord Jesus in the dignity of His Person in the whole of this gospel.
JAR The relationship in which we are set leads to what God is seeking; that is worship.
M When the disciples in Acts appointed a number to wait on tables, one of them, Stephen, was advanced beyond that, showing that there was a difference; not that he ignored the work, but he was given work beyond it.
BTF If we do not get actual worship in John’s gospel, do we not get a beautiful picture of it in chapter 12, when Mary anoints the Lord’s feet and the house is filled with the odour of the ointment?
RSS What would create the spirit of worship is the revelation and the appreciation of the Person of Christ, the knowledge of Himself. So that the very object of this gospel is that we might know that He is the Christ, the Son of God, chapter 20:31.
JT “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him”. (John 4:10) That is the gain of [p. 221] light in the soul. That leads on to the great end that the Lord refers to in speaking to the woman. She says, “Our fathers worshipped in this mountain”; (John 4:20) she connected the worship of God with a place, but the Lord says to her, “the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a [p. 231] Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”. (John 4:23,24) “In spirit and in truth” involves the revelation that you allude to.
JD Would you distinguish what He does as a divine Person, and what God does for Him. It seems to me there are two lines. What He does Himself as a divine Person; and what God does for Him as here in Manhood. It seems to me that there is a difference between ascension and exaltation.
JT In Luke it is said He was “carried up into heaven”. That is the human side. “Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted”. (Acts 2:33) From the point of view of His own dignity as in John, He ascends Himself. In Acts He is received into heaven. In John it is “I ascend”. That is the divine side. So in John it is what He does Himself. For instance, He dismisses His spirit. In chapters 18 and 19 He is supreme. Even in regard to His enemies, He is not the sufferer in John. He is supreme, and even in regard to the giving up of His life, it is an act of power.
AMcB In the garden it is an act of power to hand Himself over to the people who sought Him.
JT He is ordering everything in John, and then “knowing that all things were now accomplished” (John 19:28) He says, “It is finished”. I think the effect of that on one’s soul is to produce worship, so that when we come to this passage it is peculiarly sacred.
GAT What is the difference between worship and [p. 222] praise?
JT Praise is more demonstrative. Praise is the outcome of your admiration of the Person. I think the element of worship may be in praise, but worship in itself is scarcely expressed.
BTF What is the incense from the golden altar in Revelation 8:3? Would that be worship?
JT It is the fragrance of Christ as Man. That is hardly worship. The incense is that which is of Christ ascending up to God in the prayers of the saints.
BTF Would not souls in the assembly, with profound conviction of the excellency of Christ and His perfections, express worship to the Father?
JT Yes; but prayer is on the ground of human merit; what Christ is as Man, as far as I understand it. God could not answer a lawless man, and that is what man is in Adam, and hence prayer must be answered on the ground of what Christ is. Even in the Old Testament you see that in some sense.
BTF Do you connect the golden altar with prayer exclusively?
JT I think so. It was outside of the holiest. It was before the veil and I think it suggests to us what Christ is as Man. So in John 17 you get the golden altar.
AMcB Human merit would refer to Christ in humanity.
JLJ In Hebrews 9 you get the golden censer.
JT That is another thought. We are speaking of the golden altar. The golden altar has reference to prayer and the excellence of Christ there. What Christ is as Man and what we are in relation to Him, as such, necessarily accompanies worship. But worship is the outcome of our appreciation of divine Persons. There must be in us that which God delights in, and in us in identification with Christ before God. That is the golden censer [p. 223] in the holiest.
AFM In answer to the question of worship, you were saying just now when we worship there is not activity in man.
JT I think it is too deep. It is the deep appreciation in the soul of what the Father is as revealed in Christ.
JB Does not Thomas touch it when he says, “My Lord and my God”?
JT He came under the influence of a greater One, but I doubt if that goes beyond homage.
JB It seems to me that what is taken up there is the effect of the presentation of Christ personally to Israel, and the response of Thomas goes a long way.
JT I doubt if it goes beyond homage. I do not think the Jewish remnant will worship in the holiest.
AAT I have heard that praise is the sacrifice of the lips and worship of the heart.
JT I think worship is a profound thing. It is difficult to define it.
JS I suppose there are two things that the Jew will not do: one is that he will not go within the veil, and the other that he will not go without the camp.
JT Quite so; the camp will be reinstated. I think the veil will be up in the millennial world.
BTF Will you pursue your thought about John 17 in connection with the golden altar? I had rather supposed that John 17 is the closest place that a soul could be brought to, that is the Son addressing the Father in perfect freedom.
JT But the prayer has reference to a world of defilement, and the saints here. Prayer contemplates a scene of need, and therefore is, strictly speaking, in the holy place.
BTF Is John 17 outside the veil?
JT I do not like to define, seeing the Lord Himself is addressing the Father, but in view of what [p. 224] I remarked, I believe it is more correct to connect it with the holy place.
JD The whole universe will be, in a sense, pleasurable in the world to come.
RSS Is not praise more connected with what the Lord has done, whereas worship is connected with what He is, with what divine Persons are and the measure of our knowledge and appreciation of them.
JT I think 235:1 is a good illustration of what praise is and the ground of it.
“We’ll praise Thee, glorious Lord”.
It is a celebration of what He has done for us, which is very befitting in those who have benefited by the Lord’s work. There is the song of Moses also. But worship is the soul’s knowledge of divine Persons, of the Deity as revealed.
WB-s Psalm 45 would be on that line.
JT There it is not what the King does, but what He is. “Grace is poured into thy lips”. (Psalm 45:2) I think that is a very good suggestion of what worship is. “I speak of the things which I have made touching the king”. (Psalm 45:1) He had composed something and it had reference to the King, and He goes on to speak of the King and His beauty.
ARS In Revelation 5, where the twenty-four elders worship, we are not told that they say anything. It is the overflow of the heart.
JT That is it.
ARS In praise what they say is often given, but not here.
JT We do have a record of what is said in Revelation by others, but not what the elders say in worship.
WLP You can praise without singing.
JT I think we have illustration of that. In the utterances of Mary and Zacharias in the beginning of Luke you [p. 225] find praise.
GAT The man in Acts 3 praises for what has been done to him.
JD What in the soul is the basis of worship?
JT I think worship, according to John, would be the worship of those in known relationship with divine Persons, not doing homage as Israel and the nations will, which is admiration for God, but not in known relationship as we have it. Now the relationship is defined in this chapter; His Father our Father and His God our God, so that the basis of worship in our souls is the knowledge of God revealed and the knowledge of the relationship in which we are set to Him.
JD In Christ as Man.
JT Quite so, and that is the highest order of worship; higher than angelic worship.
ARS In John 9 the blind man worshipped when he discovered that Jesus was the Son of God.
JT He did, but what is in mind in John 4 is unique. It expresses more than that, more than falling down and doing homage.
FA Does adoring come near the thought of worship?
JT That is a question of the meaning of the word. The word in John 4 is a word that expresses Christian worship. The Lord is distinguishing here. He says, “ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem worship the Father”, (John 4:21) it has reference to Christian worship. The Lord is distinguishing between Gerizim and Jerusalem and Christian worship.
AFM Is there such a thing as individual worship? In John 4 it is in the plural.
JT I think that is the divine thought. God’s thought is to have a company.
AFM What about John 14? “If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him”. (John 14:23) I admit it is what the Father and Son would do, but would not that produce the spirit of worship?
JT Yes, no doubt.
AAT Is the thought of life in any way connected with these relationships?
JT The question of life is solved in this gospel before you come to chapter 10. The question of life has to do with each of us individually. The purpose of God is unfolded in chapter 3, and it is that the believer should have life. In chapter 4 the power is in the Spirit; that is to say, the affections of a man are gathered up by the Spirit and set on divine Persons, so that they are springing up into everlasting life. Chapter 5 refers to the sphere of life; you pass from death into life; and chapter 6 is the food, that by which your constitution is built up for it, because you cannot enter into the sphere of life without a suitable constitution. I think the problem of life is thus solved. Then in chapter 8 you have additional thoughts, of following the Lord; and in chapter 9 we find the kind of man that follows Him, and how the Lord leads him out of the worldly fold into the flock. Eternal life was designed for Israel, and Christ was there to make it effective for them, but they would not come to Him that they might have it. Now, He says, I will give it to the sheep. So that eternal life is transferred from the Jews to the sheep. Therefore eternal life is now realised in the flock. I give to my sheep eternal life. That is one section of the gospel. The question of life is thus settled. Therefore, in referring to His brethren in chapter 20, the Lord is not alluding to their having everlasting life; that is already solved, but the point is the dignity of their position. The idea of eternal life is general; it belongs to all, but what is in chapter 20 does not belong to all. This is unique. That is why I felt encouraged to refer to [p. 227] this chapter. It shows the dignity of those who have part in the resurrection.
BTF You say eternal life is for all; you mean for every family.
JT It was involved in the gospel preached to Abraham.
RSS You spoke of that section of this gospel in which the question of eternal life is dealt with. Does that section close in chapter 12?
JT I think in chapter 10. Chapters 11 and 12 have reference to the Lord Himself, giving additional testimonies to Him as Son of God. I omitted one thought as to eternal life, and that is in chapter 12. Winding up the case with the Jews, the Lord says, the Father’s “commandment is life everlasting”. (John 12:50) That is a wonderful statement, and He had come to Israel to make it effective for them. They would not come to Him, but then He would not turn aside from the Father’s commandment; it must he effective, and it is effective in the sheep.
ABS Is the Father’s commandment that He should give eternal life?
JT The Father’s commandment was eternal life, and the Son was here to make it effective. Hence the word sent is the key to John’s gospel. The Lord was here to carry out the will of God.
JB All these things lead up to the knowledge of the Father in the way He is spoken of here.
JT If you go through the teaching of the early part of the gospel, you are prepared for this chapter.
GAT Does it make a difference as to whether “God” or “Father” comes first?
JT The Spirit has placed “Father” first.
GAT It is often quoted the other way. Is there any difference?
JT I think “My God” has reference to what came out in His path here; that Man’s God [p. 228] is now our God.
GAH Why is it “Father” first?
JT Father places us in relationship at once. That is the link of affection, it is the thought of Father and Son, but when you come to God it is God and man.
WB-s In Ephesians it is “God” first. “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”. (Ephesians 1:3)
AAT I should like to ask a question as to dignity. Is not liberty connected with dignity?
JT I think it is. The dignity involved in the message gives you liberty of access. If you receive the light of the message, you have liberty of access.
EHT Has the thought of “my Father” the idea of a family in it?
JT It is the link of affection.
EHT Why does God come afterwards?
JT Because you must have the thought of God and man.
AFM You connect the title “Son of God” with Father, and “Son of man” with God.
JT Yes. I think there are two thoughts; Father and Son, the family idea; and then, God and man.
JD Do you think in the eternal state the thought of Father and Son will be there as well as that of God and man?
JT I do. I think both relationships will remain, because they are primal thoughts, both God and man, and Father and Son.
JD They are connected with counsel.
JT 1 Corinthians 15 speaks of the Son delivering up the kingdom to God, that God may be all in all; and then the tabernacle of God is with men, Revelation 21. The relationship of Father and Son will also be there.
BTF Is not the thought of God and man common to every family, whereas the thought of Father and Son belongs to the assembly alone, and in a peculiar [p. 229] way?
JT I think it does here. “My Father, and your Father”. That is unique. No other circle will enter into that except the assembly.
BTF But God and man belong to every family.
JT Clearly.
GAT “Behold I and the children which God hath given me”. (Hebrews 2:13)
JT It is rather a position here on earth that is alluded to there. I doubt if the idea of children goes into eternity. It is what Christ had as rejected by Israel, children instead of the nation of Israel.
RSS And to whom does it refer?
JT To the Jewish disciples, those who were attached to Him in His humiliation. While Jehovah’s face was hid from the house of Jacob, He gave children to the Messiah.
RSS What is the application of that sign now?
JT There is no application except that we come into the place of children, but it refers strictly to the Jewish remnant. It does not reach to the truth of the assembly.
JD Your remark in connection with the Father and Son going on to eternity is, I think, morally right.
JB Do we not get in John 20, God’s original thoughts in regard to man consummated?
JT I think we do. From the outset of man’s creation you have the idea of Father and Son, and God and man. The idea of Father and Son was placed in the heart of the race, in the human family. That is the testimony to what is in the heart of God, and it awaited Christ to come and give it form. This chapter shows it has taken form.
JB According to God’s thought at the very beginning.
JT Quite so. The original thought of God has been reached, and that is eternal.
JLJ In 1 Corinthians 15 we get the kingdom [p. 230] delivered up to God, even the Father, and “then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all”. (1 Corinthians 15:28)
JD It seems that in connection with revelation, the respective places which the Persons of the Godhead have taken, they will never give up in eternity. God is found as Father, and Christ as Man, and the Holy Spirit pervading the whole universe.
WB-s I would like to ask a question as to worship. We get the Father and the Son in John, and God and Christ in Hebrews. What do you understand by the different terms? Evidently in Hebrews you do not get Father and Son, but God and Christ, and yet it is connected with worship. They are priests in Hebrews, but in John, brethren. How does priesthood affect us as Christians?
JT Hebrews does not take us as far as family relationship; the point is to show that we have title to enter the holiest. I would connect relationship more with the land of promise. Hence it would be more worship there in the consciousness of family relationship. There is a difference between worshipping God viewed in His greatness, and worshipping the Father with whom we are in relationship; that belongs to us.
RSS And that is John.
JT Yes, and hence the basis of relationship is God revealed as Father to us, and our being set in relationship to Him as our Father, as the companions of Christ. It will not be the basis of relationship for others.
RSS Is the sphere in Hebrews connected with the wilderness?
JT The tabernacle supposes the wilderness.
JLJ Is there a veil up in Hebrews for us?
JT Yes, we go through it.
AFM In John 4 it says, “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth”. (John 4:24) And then in the same chapter, “The Father seeketh such to worship him”. (John 4:23) Are we viewed as worshipping God in both characters?
JT “God is a Spirit”. Worship is not in a place, nor in connection with what is material. It is in connection with what is spiritual. But the Person before your soul is the Father. You recognise that He is God, but you are in relationship with Him as Father. That sets a peculiar kind of affection into activity.
GAH But you said that two things remain, that is, God and man, and Father and Son. The Father and Son is the character of the relationship we may enter into after the breaking of the bread.
JT Yes. I think the land of Canaan is not exactly the holiest, although the holiest is involved, but relationship with divine Persons involves Canaan. That is the sphere of relationships. The holiest contemplates a scene of defilement outside, otherwise the terms have no force, but Canaan is a sphere of relationships. It is the land God has as His. We have been speaking this morning of “Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness?” But she is “leaning upon her beloved”. (Song of Songs 8:5) The Lord supports you out of the wilderness.