HOW WE MAY BE TOGETHER AS BRETHREN
[p. 343] HOW WE MAY BE TOGETHER AS BRETHREN
Psalm 133; Hebrews 3:1 - 14; John 13:17
EJMcB I think that in this Psalm you have the idea proposed; then in Hebrews 3 you get the sphere in which the idea is exercised, and then in John 13 you get the spirit in which it is exercised. I thought these scriptures might lay the basis for a little useful help on this subject. We are all agreed, I trust, that a little real brotherly love, and an amount of fellowship and interest in the precious things of Christ, would be a great gain to us all. In that way you open the door for the Lord to command the blessing. I speak of commanding the blessing in a practical way. There is no limit to what we might have if a few of the saints could have that condition of things obtaining amongst them at the present moment.
JT It is very remarkable that the law did not propose that we should love our brethren, but that we should love our neighbour. It occurs to me that perhaps the difficulty in realising the fellowship lies in the fact that we do not love our neighbours.
EJMcB You mean the brethren that live next to us.
JP I would say “amen” to that.
EJMcB I take it that the thought in your mind is that the brother who lives nearest to me is the one who tests me.
JT The commandment was, “Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself”; (Leviticus 19:18) and I think there is bound to be in that the principle of local responsibility; because the assembly and its privileges, and responsibilities, were all intended to be realised, and carried out in localities.
EJMcB You may speak of loving your brother at a distance, where there is no real practical proof of [p. 344] it. You might find it easy enough to love me, living in England, but if I came to live in South Africa I think you might find it a little difficult to love me. I think the practical test is, it brings out how far I have drunk into the spirit of Christ.
JT A brother who lives at a distance, really, is not your neighbour; therefore the carrying out of, assembly principles takes a local form; it puts us to the test as to how far we are formed in the divine nature; because the brother nearest to you will test you most.
EJMcB I think we can all appreciate, in a very special way, the subject that is before us at this present juncture; for while we have been together we have got on uncommonly well; but when many of us return to our localities, how will we go on? The same question applies to the brethren we leave behind us. How will they go on among themselves?
JT The assembly economy through Paul’s ministry took form in localities; so it will be observed in the epistle to the Corinthians the plural is used frequently. “So ordain I in all the assemblies”. (1 Corinthians 7:17) We may have the unfolding of the assembly, and its privileges, but the question is, Are we able to carry this out?
EJMcB Well, it is very profitable to one’s own soul to ask as to how far the assembly, in a locality, does work out. There is not the slightest doubt the thought is to be brought down to my neighbour; that is, that the brother nearest to me is the great test as to how far this truth is laid hold of.
W In what way is one’s neighbour a test?
JT If you are living near your neighbour, you will see his discrepancies.
W Would he not be an encouragement?
JT If he is formed in the divine nature he will; but if he is not, that is the test.
EJMcB I think the very fact that he is an [p. 345] encouragement is a test, for the man who is going on best tests me more than a man who is going on badly.
JT God is so concerned about brotherly relationships being maintained, that He will not accept your offerings unless you are right with your brother. “If thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift”, (Matthew 5:23, 24). God will say to you, as it were, Well, now, you have passed by your brother. You cannot pass your brother by, and come to God.
Ques How does this work out?
JT The Lord has the saints in His affections. He entered in before God according to the type with the breastplate, on which were the names of the saints. The answer to that in us is, that we are priests. Wherever Paul went, he had the saints on his heart, he loved them.
Rem There might be an outward system of things carried on, and yet there might be that which would not commend itself to God.
JT God knows if you pass by a brother in coming to Him. It is very striking that at the outset that question is raised. God says to Cain, “Where is Abel, thy brother?” (Genesis 4:9)
Ques Would you say that an instance of leaving your gift before the altar might be ceasing, for the moment, to break bread till the hindrance would be removed?
JT The breaking of bread is not a gift, nor a sacrifice. I see your point, however. I think a gift is that which costs us something; and God has respect to it. He does not undervalue the gift, even though you have passed by your brother in coming. He says, ‘Leave your gift here, and go back, and be reconciled to your brother’.
[p. 346] Ques I will put it in another way. Would I be justified in coming and breaking bread if such a condition of things existed?
JT I think not. If one has anything in his heart against his brother, or if he knows his brother has anything against him, he should see his brother at once. “If thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift”. (Matthew 5:23,24)
Rem I suppose the principle would apply even more strongly in connection with the Lord’s supper?
Ques Would coming to the Supper not lead to self-judgment; whereas neglecting to come might defer it?
EJMcB Do you not think we might put it in a very much easier way to be understood? So far as I see from Scripture Israel at first appreciated the practical proof of the presence of Jehovah amongst them. I take it that if that state of things which you suggest existed, there was not that practical proof. Now, as to ourselves. Are we content to go on, Lord’s day after Lord’s day, nominally breaking bread, and singing hymns, and so on, when not conscious of the presence of the Lord? I think we should come with the anticipation of having the blessing. If you ask me what the blessing is, I should say the conscious sense of the presence of the Lord. But the conditions are these, that you get right with your neighbour.
WK Supposing you are conscious that those conditions are not existing, what would you do?
JT I think it would be as well to admit it before the Lord.
JP I think it would be just as well to admit that they did not exist.
JT I think the next thing is, the Lord pours out “the spirit of grace and supplications”, (Zechariah 12:10) so that there comes self-judgment. That is how Israel is recovered in the end; the Lord will pour [p. 347] out the spirit of grace and supplications, and they will look on Him whom they have pierced and they will mourn every family apart, and their wives apart. Self-judgment is an individual matter.
EJMcB I think Hebrews 3 is extremely helpful in connection with our brother’s question. If we honestly admit that the conditions do not exist as they ought to exist, what can we do better than to go to the One who orders the house, in the spirit of self-judgment? We shall then find that the Lord has a way out of it.
E Do you mean those who are not definitely and individually implicated in the trouble?
EJMcB Well, I quite agree with the thought; but personally I would consider myself implicated. I do not like the spirit of acknowledging that the thing is wrong, but that I am not part of it.
Ques Does that suppose that the brother has made it known that he has ought against a brother?
JRK It says, “If thou bring thy gift ... and there rememberest”. (Matthew 5:23)
JT It is very likely you will be reminded of it in the presence of God.
Rem Very probably you know about it without anyone telling you.
JT I think it is a very great principle as regards the Priest in the sin offering. All the males were to eat it. I think the males among the priests represent those who were responsible. Let any saint say that he is not responsible, then we will know where he is; but if he assumes to be responsible, then he must accept responsibility, and eat the sin offering, if there be sin.
EJMcB I think one feels the force of that, because nothing is more helpful to the remedy of a [p. 348] thing like that than the consciousness that it exists; and being spiritually exercised as to its existing, you are not prepared to go on with it.
JT Yes, and do you not think that if we accept the responsibility before the Lord, He is sure to come in for us?
EJMcB I do. I think we could count on that. I think Israel’s history shows that where they accepted their responsibility and turned to the Lord, He always met them, and made a door out of it for them. I would raise the question as to how far we genuinely value the blessing of God?
JP I would like you to go a little further on that line.
EJMcB What I would say further is, that the exercises we have are peculiarly inducive to the blessing of God.
W.K. In what way?
EJMcB Imagine a company of saints in Belfast really going on in unity. What liberty and power in the Spirit there would be! What movements of the Spirit of God!
Rem You are touching a root cause of a great deal of trouble at the present time. Feelings come in among the saints, and they are allowed to remain.
EJMcB May we go a little further, and see if we are exercised as to the privilege of having a neighbour?
Rem I think the blessing of God is really valued. It would be a sad thing to think that it was not.
WK You seem to attach a peculiar meaning to the expression, the blessing of God. Perhaps you would say what it means?
JP I think it was stated a little while ago.
EJMcB I consider the blessing of God in this connection, is to be in the conscious enjoyment of the presence of the Lord. I can conceive no greater on this earth.
WK [p. 349] Do you attach that to the meeting, or to the individual, or to both?
EJMcB To the local company of saints.
JT In connection with that, God enters into covenant with man. If the terms of covenant are kept and answered to by man, there is always a place and an opportunity for God to come in. He entered into a covenant with Adam; the tree of knowledge of good and evil represented a covenant; and we know God did come into the garden, but Adam was not there, he had not kept the terms of the covenant. You get it also with Abraham. God made a covenant with Abraham in Genesis 17, and in chapter 18 God came to visit Abraham. When He had made a covenant with Israel, at mount Sinai, He added toil: “In all places where I cause my name to be remembered, there will I come to you, and there will I bless you”. He would be true to His word. “In all places where I have recorded my name — (or where I cause my name to be remembered) — I will come unto thee and will bless thee;” (Exodus 20:24) and so here in John 13 to 16. In the former you have the spirit of the new covenant; in the latter you have “I will come to you”.
WK If it was so at all times previously, there is a good basis for us to assume that we shall find it so now?
JT That is the point; but it depends upon our being true to the terms of the covenant. You could not realise it on any other ground.
EJMcB Might we touch now on one of the practical difficulties? If we are going to make it a thing that exists as everlastingly there, we have done away really with the covenant conditions.
Ques Make what thing everlastingly there?
EJMcB Why, the blessing. Is not this very sad that God walked in the garden in the cool of the day, with a heart that was full of affection to Adam;
[p. 350] but Adam was hidden. Did Adam, in hiding himself, change God? No; but look what he missed. That was the thought in your mind, Mr. T.?
JT Exactly.
EJMcB I do not think that we undervalue the blessing; but the question is whether we have had the practical side sufficiently before us; and in that way have been exercised as to practical conditions.
JT You are living in a locality, and you may be alone; but one and another comes to reside in the same locality, and you have the opportunity of working out assembly principles, and of enjoying all the privileges that attach to the assembly.
SL Your point is that Adam should have been there to enjoy the blessing.
EJMcB Why did he hide himself?
Rem The question of the neighbour was not so much in evidence in Adam’s case, as it was when Cain came on the scene.
EJMcB As you go on a bit in the knowledge of the truth you might perhaps get jealous of a brother who is a little ahead of you. It is a point of moment to be exercised that the company exists. It is a mercy from the Lord that He awakens us. I take it that it was a mercy from the Lord that the saints were awakened at Corinth.
JT Exactly. In the first epistle Paul endeavours to show them the bearing of the Supper; that it was the covenant that was in it; what God was to them. Well, then, in the second epistle, he shows in himself what the spirit of the covenant is.
Ques If these conditions do not exist that command the blessing, I suppose it is a very serious thing to go on keeping up an outward show?
EJMcB Yes. And then you find, instead of life and fellowship, there is dullness.
Rem If there are a few in the company who go [p. 351] down under the thing, and accept it as their own, the Lord will come in.
EJMcB Yes; and it is very interesting if you take the revivals in Israel, they began with one or two exercised as to what was suitable to Jehovah, and they very soon exercised all the people.
Rem It is absolutely certain that the blessing is there to be realised.
Rem Referring to what we had last night. I suppose if a brother morally disappears, he is not likely to quarrel with his neighbour.
EJMcB I am quite sure of that. I thought we are best qualified to appear when we disappear.
WK Well, have we got to the remedy?
Rem Yes; to disappear.
EJMcB I think I may say I know nothing that is more beautiful than the fact that if we do get exercised, and are awakened, through the Lord’s mercy, to see that there is something unsuitable to the Lord, nothing is finer than to know His capacity, and readiness, to make things right. I think it is perfectly beautiful to see the way the Lord regulated that little company around Himself; in detecting various things that were at work amongst them, and exposing them in a way that did not shame them.
WK That is a very important point.
Ques Is not that the value of the Supper, really?
EJMcB I think it is; but I read John 13, with the point in mind, “If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them”. (John 13:17) It is beautiful to be a doer according to the spirit of Christ; what a holy, helpful, effect it has on a company of saints.
Rem If each of us loved our brother, and judged ourselves as we judge him, things might be different from what they are, generally speaking.
WK Of course, it is free grace that keeps us on the road.
[p. 352] Rem I was thinking of the passage in Corinthians: “Let each one examine himself, and so let him eat”. (1 Corinthians 11:28)
JP If I understand aright, all this that you are speaking of now, is in view of the blessing; and I have felt for some time, in a little measure, that the blessing has been lost sight of; and we have been content to go on walking in the way you have spoken of; outwardly everything all right, but there has not been the sense of the blessing; and we have been content to go on. If there is not the sense of the blessing we shall not take account of things that appear to hinder.
EJMcB Well, I think I have made the remark before, that what has done us the greatest possible damage has been an idea that has come into our minds that the Lord’s day morning meeting is a “worship” meeting. It has had a most baneful effect upon us; and if it could he dispelled, it would be a great help to us.
JP What do you mean? Is it not a “worship” meeting?
EJMcB No, it is not. We classify meetings: prayer meetings, and reading meetings, and so on; and it has had a most injurious effect.
WK Describe the effect.
EJMcB Well, you come to try and worship; the expression has got hold of the mind of saints, and they naturally come, and try to worship.
Rem It is to remember the Lord we come together.
EJMcB Ah, that will do.
JP You are speaking of the breaking of bread, I suppose. But I have understood that after the breaking of bread, we have worship.
EJMcB I think your remark answers itself. If you have the breaking of bread in its true and proper sense, you will have a worshipful spirit afterwards.
[p. 353] Ques I suppose that is the only meeting in which we have worship?
EJMcB That may be so. There are two things that govern us when we come together on Lord’s day morning: one is you desire to see the Lord, and the other is you are glad to meet the brethren. I consider they are both important. I cannot conceive of anyone being glad to see the Lord, if he is not glad to see the brethren. It cannot be accepted that you are glad to see the Lord, if there is a single brother, or sister, you are not glad to see in the room. What I wanted to show was the danger of classifying.
JT In regard to the Supper, it has often occurred to me that the great point is to be governed by the light that governs the position at the Supper.
Ques Will you explain that, please?
JT Well, there are certain principles, or facts, that govern our position at the Supper, and one is that the Lord is absent; otherwise the Supper has no significance; and another is, that He died here, and that we are where He was put to death. So that these facts become governing light to us.
Rem There it is, “Till I come”.
JT It is a very affecting thing that the One to whom we owe everything, died here; and that He is not here.
EJMcB I like the thought that that fact becomes light to your soul, and governs the position.
WK Are we to understand that these facts are to control us while we are there?
JT Yes; as to the Supper, we come together to break bread; and these facts are incontestable, and become light to us; and to be intelligently there you must recognise them. But then, we are entitled, if there is spiritual power, to take up the position of worshippers, and the title lies in other facts, namely, that Christ has taken up a position on high, and He has associated us with Himself as brethren.
EJMcB [p. 354] And, I might add, you cannot rise to that light if you do not accept the light that precedes.
JT Exactly. If the Holy Spirit is in us, we have power to be lifted up out of the wilderness to the sphere of heavenly associations.
Ques How do you bring in the light as to the second passage you spoke of?
JT It is the light of the message sent by the Lord to the disciples by Mary; that light remains here.
EJMcB I think it is perfectly clear that the heavenly position of the saints came to them through the Lord.
JT As in Hebrews 3, “holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling”. (Hebrews 3:1)
Ques Speaking of the blessing in the way we have done, would you make a little plainer how it comes in with these two thoughts?
JT Well, I think Mr. McB.’s thought is that the blessing is bound up with the presence of the Lord.
EJMcB I think one can see how it is connected with the two thoughts. What governs you in coming to the Supper? The absence of Christ; and you are coming into the presence of others who are governed by the same thing. But you are entitled to the position in which He is. Now, how does He bring you into it? By way of light.
JT The disciples would have had no title to take up the heavenly calling, if the message had not been sent to them. You need power for it, but you must be governed by light.
EJMcB It is a most important thing for you to recognise this — that the power is adequate to any light you get. The point is, what light are you in?
Ques The first effect of the power would be to awaken the affections, would it not?
[p. 355] JT Yes.
EJMcB I think in the face of this, one covets more and more to go on rightly with the brethren next to one, lest there might be anything that would interfere with the sense of this.
JT If I might refer to a type for a moment; in the wilderness guidance for the people was by the tabernacle. After the gift of the Spirit in type in Numbers 21, the tabernacle is not in view; you have the Spirit now, and that refers to the inner movements of our hearts in regard to privilege.
EJMcB Yes, up to that moment you have the tabernacle idea.
Ques Does the first answer to the thought of the Lord?
JT The tabernacle refers to the presence of the Lord here in flesh. In the Lord’s death, the tabernacle was taken down, as it were; there is guidance in that; and it must necessarily govern you; but then the Holy Spirit leads you to what is inward and what is heavenly.
EJMcB You cannot have the world as your hope and object for six days of the week, and then enter on this on the remaining day; or, to take the other line — if you begin your first day with one system of things, you cannot go back for six more days into another system. I think that is where we want practical help.