THE TRANSFIGURATION OF CHRIST
THE TRANSFIGURATION OF CHRIST
EIE What is your thought in regard to these verses?
JT The passage in one sense is linked with Chapter 3. There He is at the lowest point and here He is ascended in principle. There He has descended; here He has ascended.
RSS You refer to His baptism and identification with the remnant in chapter 3.
JT Yes; here He is ascended, and the remarkable connection is that He is praying. It is the same Person. The One who ascends is the One who descends. The Man, who has been down to the lowest point and touches man there, is the same above. That is what will make heaven what it will be for us; the Man being there who has been known here.
RSS And He prepared the place for us by entering in as Man. He is not preparing it. He has gone to prepare it.
JT Yes; “He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things”. (Ephesians 4:10) Think of all things being filled by a praying Man!
GAT What is your thought in connection with His praying in both places?
JT The Spirit records it to show us what sort of a Man He was, a dependent Man.
RSS And in every instance whether in exaltation or humiliation.
JT This has reference to His ministry. In a sense He had accomplished His ministry, and He had title to ascend. The heavens opening upon Him in chapter 3 referred to the thirty years previous. This voice from heaven and the cloud in chapter 9 [p. 398] have allusion, to His testimony. The cloud is significant, it refers to the wilderness, to Israel’s position there. There was no cloud in chapter 3.
AAT It was the cloud of glory in chapter 9.
JT Yes, it is that. When Peter spoke about the tabernacles, the cloud overshadowed them.
AB In Luke 3 it says the voice came out of heaven, and in Luke 9 the voice came from or out of the cloud. What is the significance of that?
JT The cloud as I said is an allusion to Israel’s position in the wilderness. It rested upon the tabernacle after it was constructed and set up, and the appearance of the cloud here implies that all that the tabernacle stood for, now finds its answer in this Man. So that the voice is “This is my beloved Son! hear him”. It alludes to Peter’s three tabernacles. There was only One really and that was Christ Himself. He was the true tabernacle of witness. That is, the testimony was maintained in Him.
JB Would you say the cloud set forth the Father’s presence?
JT Yes, but as taking account of the testimony. There was no cloud in chapter 3. It was simply heaven owning that Man there. Before the tabernacle was set up, there was the pillar of cloud, in fact they were baptised to Moses in it. It was the symbol of the divine presence; but afterwards the divine presence was in connection with the testimony.
WJN I was thinking of the cloud resting.
JT When the tabernacle was set up, then the cloud had a resting-place; so in the wilderness the cloud did not rest till the tabernacle was reared up.
JB There is the thought of glory here that you do not get in chapter 3.
WB-t Peter’s remark showed a lack of intelligence.
JT He did not know what he said. His thought [p. 399] was to put Christ on the same level as the other two, and the cloud appearing intimates that there was only one tabernacle, not three, and that One was really Christ Himself, because in Him, every divine thought was expressed. As the Lord was on the mount, “there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias, who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem”. He is transfigured and these Old Testament worthies appear, but to be withdrawn, and their converse indicated among other things, that they could only be there on the ground of His dying. They were not speaking of the things in heaven, but of His decease. It was becoming that they should speak of that.
LTF Would it intimate that they had testified of that in their testimony here?
JT I think so. They had intelligence in regard to it. It says, “who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish”. It seem that they introduced the thought.
GAT It was a great comfort to me on Lord’s day evening when our brother referred to this, and said that Moses got into the land.
JT He did here. The thing to get hold of is the kind of man that is seen here: the praying Man. Luke brings forward that side constantly. You get it in this chapter previous to this. He was praying when He put the question to His disciples as to who He was.
WB-s Why does it say eight days here, but in Matthew it is six days?
JT “About eight days”. I think Matthew gives simply the actual days that intervened. Luke gives us the day on which the Lord spoke, and that on which He was transfigured, but I have no doubt there is more than that in it. It carries us on to the resurrection side, a new day.
[p. 400] JLJ What is it to see the kingdom of God at the present time?
JT As it is now, “the kingdom of God is ... righteousness, and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost”. (Romans 14:17) In order to see it you need to be born again.
JLJ Is not this the heavenly side?
JT The thing to see is that the kingdom is established in a praying Man. That is the point you would like to get hold of. All administration is established in One who prays.
JB Speaking of the Lord praying, when He chose the twelve apostles it says that He continued all night in prayer and then chose them. Are they not chosen in that sense in connection with the kingdom, and now on the mountain top He goes up to pray; it does not say to be transfigured.
JT That shows what the Man was. That is what we want to get hold of in these readings. In verse 18 it says, “as he was alone praying”. (Luke 9:18) We are not told what He is praying about, but that He is in that attitude.
RSS The Lord is spoken of seven times in Luke as in prayer.
LTF It says “as he prayed the fashion of his countenance was altered”. What are we to learn from that?
JT The emphasis is on the thought that He was praying. It is that kind of a man that is transfigured. It is as such that He is owned in chapter 3, but now He is owned above and is transfigured as praying.
EGMcA Is not the disappearance of Moses and Elias another indication of God’s mind that Jesus should be the centre of attraction?
JT Here He is the One to be heard. Moses and Elijah were the two great speakers of Old Testament times. They were introduced to be withdrawn, so that all might understand there is only one Speaker now but then the Speaker is the praying [p. 401] Man. The kingdom would be established in Him and the testimony also.
JLJ Does He not rightly inherit all things through His redemption work?
JT Yes, but He takes up everything in dependence upon God.
AFM Will you give us a word about the transfiguration itself, the thought that He was transfigured and why?
JT It is an allusion to His present condition. It happened here as a testimony to confirm the disciples, but now He has actually entered into another condition. His Person remains, but in another condition. In Him in heaven, the risen glorified Man, we have Man according to God’s counsels; He is not there in flesh and blood. “As is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly”. (1 Corinthians 15:48)
WB-s He told the disciples not to speak of this till He was risen from the dead. Peter makes mention of it in his epistle. Is it because He was in humiliation, but when He was risen and glorified, then they could speak of it?
JT It was an immense means of strength to the apostles in their ministry. Peter says “for we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty”. (2 Peter 1:16) It was the majesty of a praying Man.
RSS And the quotation goes on “For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount”. (2 Peter 1:17,18)
WB-t There is no change in the Lord’s spirit. He is the same as the One who went to the lowest place. I was thinking of Ezekiel 28 which speaks of the king of Tyrus. “Thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; ... Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness”. (Ezekiel 28:14,17) My thought is that the great exaltation of the angelic being under the name of the king of Tyrus lifted him up with pride, whereas, here we have a Man exalted to “the holy mount” and He is praying.
JT Not lifted up because of His beauty. He is the same kind of Man up there as He was below. What will make heaven all that it will be to us is, that that Man is there.
LTF A praying man would involve a dependent, submissive man.
JT That is it. Instead of coming in His own name and strength and in order to establish Himself, He comes in the Father’s name and is dependent. If we want to be in the tabernacle, that is the Pattern Every true believer desires to have a part in the divine system; now this is the Pattern and everything is to be made according to it.
WB-s In Psalm 22 we get the lowest point, where He says, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”. (Psalm 22:1) Then towards the end He fills three circles of blessing, having been heard from the horns of the unicorns.
JT And according to Hebrews He was heard because of His piety. That is a wonderful statement. Although a divine Person, the Son, yet His being heard is put on that ground. It is a question of what He was here.
GAT In John 17 you find Him on the earth praying to the Father.
JT John says what He prayed for, but Luke just says that He prayed, for the point in Luke is, that there is a Man here answering to God’s mind.
GAT What is in your mind in regard to us in connection with His [p. 403] praying?
JT Praying men are the men that are required. That was the Lord’s commendation of Paul, the great master-builder. The Lord’s introduction of him to Ananias was: “behold, he prayeth”. That is the kind of man that is needed.
WB-s Elijah is referred to in James as “a man subject to like passions as we, are”, yet “he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit”. (James 5:17,18)
JT That shows what prayer secures for us, the value of it. The service requires praying men.
GBM If Ananias had had the Pattern before him he would have understood that, Paul was of the same order.
JT That is the man that is needed. Barnabas had the pattern before him. He brought Paul to Antioch as much as to say, ‘This is the man for the Gentiles’. He knew what was needed. A man who prays has power with God, and if with God he will have power with men so that to preach with power you must pray. We should be much humbled if we do not influence men. If you have not power with the saints, the secret is that you do not pray, because if you have power with God you will have power with men. Jacob wrestled with God, and had his name changed to Israel, which signifies prince; and the testimony was that he had power with God and with men. I believe the Lord in becoming Man, took that ground.
WB-t The Lord said to Job’s three friends,. “my servant Job shall pray for you; for him I will accept”. (Job 42:8) And it adds “the Lord also accepted Job. And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends”. (Job 42:9,10) What Job passed through seemed to make him effective in this way, and his captivity was turned, not when he said I “repent in dust and ashes”, (Job 42:6) but when he prayed for his three friends.
AB The disciples said “Lord, teach us to pray”. (Luke 11:1)
JT Yes, they saw what was required. As you become acquainted with the Lord, it leads you to pray.
RSS It was when they saw Him praying in chapter 11. I do not think He prayed with them, because there could not be common ground. He prayed for them, and taught them to pray. What do you think was the difference between the attitude in prayer in Luke and in John? It is rather dependence in Luke, but hardly that in John.
JT The word used for pray in John implies more familiarity. He is a divine Person and has title to ask the Father for things on that ground.
AFM In 1 Timothy, those in the house of God are exhorted to pray in connection with the glad tidings. The apostle also says: “I will therefore that men pray everywhere”. (1 Timothy 2:8)
JT If we have power with God we shall have power with men, and the kingdom is largely that; a question of moral sway. It is not breaking things down arbitrarily, but as the Lord dealt with Saul, there is moral power. If you have no power with men, you should be humbled. One may have light without power.
RSS Prayer is better than argument.
WB-s We see the two kinds of men in Abraham and Lot. Abraham prayed for Sodom. There is no evidence that Lot prayed, and he was mocked at when he gave testimony.
JT Abraham had power, too. He and Isaac both commanded the respect of the Canaanites.
EGMcA Even when he failed and Abimelech took his wife the Lord said: “Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee”. (Genesis [p. 405] 20:7)
RSS When you are thinking of the Lord Jesus in prayer, it is as a dependent Man, not in connection with His deity. He is to fill every office that God intended for man, but He fills each office as the praying Man, so that even in the end He delivers up the kingdom to God, having received it on the ground of dependence.
AB Was it not prayer that characterised the early disciples?
JT “They continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers”. (Acts 2:42) Then we have a side light as to it in Acts 12, where they were convened for prayer in Mary’s house at night.
RSS We see the disciples in prayer in Acts 4, “and when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness”. (Acts 4:31)
JT Prayer gives God His place. God and man are seen in their relative positions. It recognises that power belongs to God, and that we have none. Man’s position is that of dependence.
EGMcA Was the display of the glory on the mount consequent on His praying?
JT It is so presented.
GBM We are now getting an important answer to the Jews’ question; “who is this Son of man?” (John 12:34) We often use the title Son of man as an official title and lose the meaning of it.
JT The Son of man is the Inheritor of all that attaches to man in the counsels of God, and He recovers all like David; so that every thought God has given expression to as regards man is recovered in Christ; there is the reinstatement of man according to God, in His Person.
RSS It is only in Luke that He is spoken of as praying on the [p. 406] mount.
JT It is because of what we are saying. Luke is presenting the Man to us, “the man Christ Jesus”.
RSS When Scripture speaks of Christ “upholding all things by the word of his power”, (Hebrews 1:3) is it not looking at His deity?
JT Quite so. That was true of Him while on earth, as much as before, only He had taken manhood, and He maintained a suited attitude. Balaam said: “according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!” (Numbers 23:23) If God is to work, there must be prayer, man must be dependent; he is to be taught dependence. How? He learns it in Jesus. Jesus comes in and sets forth the idea that power is in God, not in man inherently, and hence man should pray, and if man prays God works.
WJN The Lord was ever divine, but having come into manhood, when anointed for His service, power is manifested.
JT Peter says, He was “anointed ... with the Holy Ghost and with power; who went about doing good ... for God was with him”. (Acts 10:38) The works were God’s works.
RSS Do you not think more than anything else, it is in prayer that you get adjusted in regard to God and in regard to your fellow-men? As an illustration; “when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any”. (Mark 11:25) That is the time your conscience will be in exercise before God, and when you will think of your relations to your fellow-men.
JT Then you get another thought in the Pattern, that you are admitted into great privileges, not only power. Jesus is transfigured and the heavenly saints come into view, appearing in glory, and they speak to Him.
RSS Our brother, Mr. Raven, made a simple but remarkable statement, that if he had to live his life over again he would read less and pray more.
JT If you pray you get power. Then you are [p. 407] liable to be admitted into wonderful things. One should keep on, not simply ask for the things you need.
EGMcA Why was His raiment white and glistering? Where did that light come from?
JT I would not undertake to say. It is something we cannot say much about. It took place for a testimony. It was evidently a miraculous occurrence and the Lord was altered both in regard to His Person and to His raiment. He was conformed to the heavenly surroundings. I think that prayer leads to change. If you go in to speak to God there is an impression left upon you and you feel yourself in wonderful company, as you wait before God.
AFM Like Moses, whose face shone.
RSS Is it something like 2 Corinthians 3:18: “beholding ... the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory”. (2 Corinthians 3:18)
JT If you take these things in the order in which they are presented here, they may be applied to any of us in prayer. There is change; then admission into heavenly privilege, and the consciousness of the Father’s delight in us. All that appears in its own order. It is morally suited that it should be so. We begin here on earth in the place of need and we go on to the fulness of privilege.
WB-t Why did the disciples go to sleep?
JT Why do many of us go to sleep? It is the case with most of the Lord’s people at the present time, they are in a state of insensibility to the glory, to the vista that is opened up for us in the ministry of the apostle Paul. Paul says, “Awake thou that sleepest”, (Ephesians 5:14) in writing to the Ephesians. Eutychus went to sleep, in the presence of that wonderful ministry.
RSS J.N.D. says he paid the penalty of his inattention, but when Paul speaks of sleep it is not literal [p. 408] sleep.
JT You may have the most refreshing ministry, but unless your spirit is sustained by the Lord you do not appreciate it. The thing is to be on the alert, and the Lord helps us. But I am perfectly certain that the great mass of the Lord’s people are asleep as to Paul’s doctrine.
RSS It is very remarkable that in Luke from this point the Lord goes up to Jerusalem. From this onward, all is in view of His rejection. He comes down from the mount of transfiguration to go to the cross.
JT Exactly. They were speaking of that on the mount. It is His exodus they were speaking about, and it should be accomplished at Jerusalem.
GWH Is the service here that of Melchisedec?
JT Intercession is not Melchisedec’s service. Melchisedec is priest of the Most High God, the Possessor of heaven and earth. He refers to Christ in His millennial service, as Priest. I think you have nothing as to ability to sympathise at all in regard to Melchisedec.
EIE It says, “And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen”. Why was that?
JT They were told to. It was to remain a secret till the Lord was risen from the dead. Everything was reserved till redemption was accomplished and it would be then that these things should become of value.
RSS And was it not in view of the Lord’s rejection they should tell no man that He was the Christ?
JT It was judicial in regard to the Jews. They were not to get any more light.