ETERNAL LIFE
ETERNAL LIFE
JT I think it is well to say that, in a general way, where eternal life is presented in the Old Testament, and in what we call the synoptic gospels, it is presented as something future; whereas John treats it almost invariably as having reference to the present time. It helps, perhaps, to note that both Paul and John take account of the lifting up of the brazen serpent. Paul connects it with the wilderness life; the Christian’s path in the wilderness. John connects it with the land; that is, with Canaan, with eternal life the great end in view. Romans 8 alludes to it, saying, “what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit”. (Romans 8:3,4) There he has in view the maintenance of the spirit of the law, in the wilderness. John says, “as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life”. That is, he connects it with the great divine end that God had in view.
I think, that in regard to any subject that the Scriptures present, if we get a hold of it in its general bearing, the application of it in detail becomes perfectly simple; and the general bearing of Scripture in regard to eternal life is in connection with the age which is to come; not with the present age. John connects it with the present, so that we have to consider how it is laid hold of now. But I think it steadies our minds as to it when we lay hold of the general bearing of the Scriptures on the subject.
[p. 326] Ques Does the blessing of Abraham find its fulfilment in the age to come?
JT Yes. All the families of the earth will come into it; so that it cannot be connected with any special family of men. It is a general divine thought and it necessarily underlies all the ways of God, for whilst death is on man it is clear that God cannot carry out His design; man must live. So at the end you find the remnant speaking in faith, saying, “Come, and let us return unto the Lord, for he hath torn and he will heal us; he hath smitten and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us; in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight”, (Hosea 6:2). They lay hold of the divine thought, that upon the third day they shall live in His sight. So that clearly faith had in view men living here in God’s sight in righteousness.
Rem Then I suppose before we could come out here in power we must lay hold of that.
JT Yes; I think so. We have to see how God has solved the question of life for man. Then, inasmuch as it is a divine thought for all men, we have to see how we come into it.
Ques Do you make any distinction between life and eternal life?
JT The Scriptures, I think do. Life is power in us; eternal life is more objective; it involves a sphere of things into which we enter. But who can enter into it? Entrance into it requires a certain constitution, and that constitution is to be acquired by a certain kind of food. I think this chapter shows the divine thought, and how it is possible for God to bring it in, that is, by the lifting up of the serpent. The next chapter, 4, shows the power of it; chapter 5 introduces the sphere of it; and chapter 6 is the food that is essential to it.
Ques What is the sphere of it?
JT I think it involves that men are to be [p. 327] together in love, in the Christian circle, as has been said.
Rem I suppose Psalm 133 would show that?
JT Yes.
Ques How would you define the present aspect of the possession of eternal life?
JT Every believer has title to it. Faith gives you title, but you require the Spirit for the enjoyment of it. That is — “the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life”. There is something into which the well springs, “springing up into everlasting life”. (John 4:14) It is characteristic of the Spirit to spring up. The Spirit lays hold of the affections of the believer; the affections that would have lived in the world. The affections of man naturally flow out without restriction, and would run riot. Now, these affections are taken up by the Spirit and diverted into new and holy channels.
Rem The Lord says, “the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life”. (John 4:14) Is there not a special thought in that?
JT Yes; it is a fountain springing up; but it is well to take good note of chapter 3 as indicating how, and why. First of all, how? That is the lifting up of the Son of man; and then, why? That is a question of God’s love.
TRD What is the difference between these two well-known statements; “even so must the Son of man be lifted up”, and “God so loved the world?” Both of them end in eternal life.
JT Well, seeing how it is possible for men to have it shows that the Son of man must be lifted up. The “must” has reference, I think, to the nature of God, and the actual state of man. It was a necessity; but when you go on further you get higher, and that is the cause why it [p. 328] is so.
JK With this difference, that love is not put as a must; the must refers to man’s conditions and God’s claims.
TMG I thought it was a necessity of the love of God.
JT The must raises the whole question as to God’s nature, and man’s state; this latter came out typically at the end of the forty years in the wilderness. God had shown what He was to the people, not only in delivering them, but in accompanying them through the wilderness, and caring for them, so that they lacked nothing. They had every evidence of what God was; and yet, we are told that they spake against Moses and against God. So that in the case of man there was no remedy; there was no hope for him in himself.
W Is the eternal life connected with the “heavenly things” referred to in verse 12?
JT Well, I would say yes, in a sense; because the blessing of necessity is heavenly in character. Everything is, really, you might say, tinged with blue: so it is the Son of man who brings it in, and He is from heaven.
Ques Are we in the good of the lifting up of the serpent in the wilderness while we are down here?
JT The wilderness was the spot where man’s state was disclosed, and there it must be that the Son of man must be lifted up; and the matter was settled there for good. Now, the apostle Paul shows that the testimony is maintained here, in the saints, in answer to that; the righteous requirements of the law are maintained here. But John is not engaged with the effect in the wilderness as a testimony in the saints; all he states is that the Son of man is lifted up in the wilderness, because it was there that the state of man was fully disclosed. I think that the answer to the blessing is Canaan; that is to say, that is how God reaches Canaan for man.
TRD [p. 329] I think that is very important. The end of the testing, the serpent lifted up, and the man removed from before God in death. Then there is progress; they go on to the springing well.
Rem I do not quite see the distinction between Romans 8 and John 3. Would you not say that the same individuals, in which the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled, are also those that reach Canaan?
JT Yes, they are. What is in my mind is that the apostle Paul is thinking of the testimony where the law entered; the ground is maintained, not only in Christ, but in us now, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. John does not touch on that here: he is engaged with the greatness of the divine thought, and how God can consistently bring it in in spite of what man is.
Rem Paul shows us the power to go through the wilderness according to God, and John brings in more the sphere in which the life is enjoyed.
JT That is it. Paul is engaged with the moral need for the testimony, and to maintain it. The righteous requirement of the law being fulfilled in the saints shows that the saints are brought into accord with Christ as the ark of the covenant. The man in Romans 7 says he delights in the law of God. That is a great point; it shows how the saints are brought into accord with Christ, because that is what He said, in principle; “thy law is within my heart”. (Psalm 40:8) Romans 7 shows that the believer loves God’s law, he delights in it; but when you come to chapter 8, he not only delights in it, but he has power to carry it out. Here, in John 3, it is God’s purpose, it is what is in God’s mind for man, and in chapter 4, it is the Spirit, so that we may enter into it now.
Ques Do you look at eternal life as outside of [p. 330] the responsible man?
JT Yes, I do.
TMG In John 3 the love of God is emphasised, and it is that the love of God might have its own way.
JT Yes, and that which fully expressed it, as to blessing, is eternal life.
TMG Yes, the purpose of God.
W Is it not the love in Romans 8 that enables you to enter into it?
JT Quite so, but it is in view of testimony here. I do not think, that Romans 8 shows you how you enter into life; the point of view there is the wilderness. Romans does not take you out of the wilderness. We are left here and have the Spirit, so that every divine requirement may be fully answered to. Now, John takes the other side; he passes over the plains of Moab. The point is, if the Son of man is lifted up in the wilderness, the answer is eternal life. The responsible man, whose state is exposed in the wilderness, is set aside.
TMG And that is what is here in John 3.
Ques Do you view the brazen serpent in John 3 as showing how God has effected the removal of the man, so that we might be free to be more for His pleasure?
Rem In John it is the way the Son of man has been lifted up, in order that God might effect His own thought in opening up a sphere for us in connection with His Son, a sphere in which we can live.
JT That is exactly the thought.
JMcF “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life”, (John 3:36). Does not that give you the idea of another sphere, and order?
JT I think it does. The brazen serpent in Romans 8 is in view of righteousness down here, and John 3 is in view of life.
JMcF You were saying the Spirit comes in in chapter 4 in order that our affections might be carried into [p. 331] that.
JT Yes; the woman there is brought forward to show where man’s affections really have been, how discreditable man had become. The Spirit takes up those affections and forms them so that they become centred in another and new channels are opened up for us.
TMG Mr. Stoney used to speak of it as the region of satisfied desire.
JT The woman’s state is presented to show how unsatisfying the world is, even if you allow your affections to flow around as loosely as ever possible, if you throw off restriction. Young people sometimes feel that they are hampered because of the Lord’s people; they feel they have not the same liberty as others, there is more restriction, but afterwards they discover that that restriction is their salvation. Even if you remove that restriction, and give a person as much licence as his lust desires, he will find out that there is nothing in it; and this Samaritan woman is taken up to show how utterly unsatisfying it is. The Lord proposes to give you something that will be permanent, and it will itself act for you, it springs up.
Rem The woman had the experience of five husbands.
JT It was a very great proposition that the Lord made to her. He could take her up just as she was, and set her up there without sending her anywhere; and the result shows that she got hold of His thought for her. I have often pictured that woman. She must have been coming out from the city when the disciples were going in. They left the Lord alone. I think it is intended as a reflection on the apostles.
TRD On which of the apostles?
JT On all the apostles; because one or two might have been enough to go and buy bread; it was not needful that all should go. You would not have left the Lord, nor should I have left Him, I trust. He was left [p. 332] alone there.
TRD I think that is very striking. We are indebted to the Holy Spirit for that interview; it was not recorded by one who was with Him, but it was recorded by the Spirit.
JT This woman was a person who had taken all the licence anyone might desire in the world, and she is an outcast. Now, the Lord proposes to re-establish her here. I do not say to give her a place in this world, but to set her up in independence of the world and its resources.
TRD “Is not this the Christ?” (John 4:29) That was the expression of a full heart.
JT Yes; but there was more there. Chapter 3 shows the situation; that is, the Father gave all things into the hand of the Son. You will notice that John generally avoids officialism, although it is right in its place, of course. What he emphasises is relationship in love. It is not here the Lord as the anointed Man, it is the Son: “the Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand”. (John 3:35) That is chapter 3. Then chapter 4 is what the Son gives. If you understand chapter 3 you would ask. “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him and he would have given thee living water”, (John 4:10).
TMG If she had known the One in whose hands everything was she would have asked.
JT Yes; not only was the Son there, but He was there administratively; He was there to give. The Father had given all things into His hand. That would have encouraged her heart, and she would have asked. Then He says that He would have given her living water.
Luke in Acts 3 gives us the official side. “That same Jesus, whom you have crucified, (is) both Lord and Christ”. (Acts 2:36) That is the official side. John gives us the same fact, only he speaks of what is in the [p. 333] hand of the Son, it is relationship of equality and love.
TMG What does eternal life really consist in? In what way is it brought before the soul?
JT Well, I think the Father is brought before the soul as the “true God”, in contrast to all that is false in the world; and Jesus was the Sent One, John 17:3.
TRD He is the true God, and eternal life.
JT Yes. I think it is God presented to us in Christ. The true idea of God is revealed in Christ; and then on the other hand, the true idea of eternal life is revealed in Man also, as before God.
W What about the sphere in chapter 5?
TRD We see the Lord in manhood here, and all the motions of love coming out in Him. The life was manifested; “that eternal life which was with the Father ... was manifested unto us”, (1 John 1:2) John says.
JT Yes; I think all that God has in His mind for man, all that should characterise the man that should live before Him, came out in the Lord. Christ as Man was the delight of God’s heart here. Now, that order of man is continued in the saints. “He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son hath not life”. (1 John 5:12) I think the point is that it is in that Person. But it must be borne in mind that John does not teach sonship as applied to us; whereas Paul does, and he generally connects everlasting life with the future.
Ques You say John does not teach sonship, and Paul does?
JT Paul’s point is to bring in the truth of the assembly, to show how it is formed; he develops the truth of the body of Christ, which is to occupy the heavenly position.
Rem Eternal life is God’s thought for man, and for man [p. 334] here.
JT Yes; here where death has been. And it is for all men. God does not restrict it; in result all on earth shall live.
JMcF What is characteristic of the enjoyment of eternal life now is the knowledge of the Father and the Son; would you not say so?
JT If we take the Scriptures as they stand, and the Spirit of God makes no error, this is what He says, “this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent”. (John 17:3) Now, no one could deny that the Father and the Son are there speaking to each other; that is unquestionable; but, at the same time, we must recognise that the Spirit says, “the true God and Jesus Christ”; mark, it is not Thy Son, but “Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent”. (John 17:3) Why should the Spirit use these expressions? Surely there is some meaning in them. In chapter 5 it is, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me hath everlasting life”. (John 5:24)
TMG He is passed out of death into life.
JT The man in John 5 is raised up, I do not say from the dead, but he is made to walk; he gets power, and that is essential to the truth of eternal life; one has to have power. I have no doubt the Spirit is the power, but then there is the thought introduced, that “he that hears my word, and believes on him that has sent me, has life eternal”. (John 5:24)
Ques I suppose the sphere is connected with His person, and comes into existence as He is apprehended.
JT Well, when you come to the epistle it gives us more detail; the truth is broken up for us in the passage reading, “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren”. (1 John 3:14) I think there it is very practical, and it indicates what the sphere is, where the conditions of life really exist. Take any circle in the world, you could not [p. 335] live in it. As has been said, there are elements necessary or essential to the life.
Rem In the world to come it will be different, because death will be set aside.
JT Quite so, and the brethren will be there. It is clear that God’s intention was not simply that man should live before Him in isolation; His intention was that men should live before Him in relation to each other in love.
TMG Death characterises this scene.
JT Yes; every circle in the world. There are many circles, but the very best of them does not afford an atmosphere in which you live.
Ques Would you say the sphere God has formed for every family to live in is formed by the light of the revelation of divine Persons?
JT Undoubtedly; and it is not His intention that man should live in isolation on the earth; he is to live in relation to others: even the law supposed that, in saying “thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself”. (Leviticus 19:18) This relationship must be governed by divine affections. Then when you come to this chapter, the Son of man came down from heaven. He is the One who came down to give His flesh for the life of the world. His coming into the world brought in the sphere in a sense, only He had to die to make it available for us.
Ques Will you say a little as to the food in chapter 6?
JT Well, if the saints were all feeding on that, see what a moral power they would be; that is to say, if they were feeding on a Person coming down from heaven and dying.
Ques What does that convey?
JT It conveys that you have to surrender. Coming down and dying conveys the thought [p. 336] of surrender.
TMG It is not merely the historical fact that He came down?
JT The point is that He came down and died. It is a wonderful thing to understand the signification of the food, the “bread of God”. “Labour not for the meat which perishes”; (John 6:27) that is, the Lord is set forth in that way for a certain purpose by the Father; He gives this bread to the world; it is not here for the saints only; it is that the world might live. If you bring in the Son of man you have the whole race before you; if it is the Son of God, in relation to man, then you have a heavenly family.
Ques. What about John 7?
JT There you come to the testimony, but it goes beyond chapter 6 in this sense, that the Son of man, Jesus, is referred to as to be glorified. The Son of man necessarily stands in relation to man. You have to go through these chapters to see what eternal life is, and practically it is very important to see that our affections have to be regulated. It is useless to talk about eternal life if we allow our affections to flow out loosely in this world. And then we must have power.
If the question of righteousness is not answered to by us, practically we cannot take up the question of life. John begins with the brazen serpent.