Reading 4—Monday morning
Reading 4—Monday morning
Genesis 42: 35-38; 43: 1-15; 45: 9-15, 25-28; 46: 1-4, 28-30.
A.J.G. Yesterday we were occupied with Joseph’s dealings with his brethren, having in mind what it says in the epistle to the Colossians, where Paul refers to the great combat he had for them, and for those who had not seen his face in the flesh, that they might be encouraged, “being united together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the full knowledge of the mystery”, Col 2: 2. What we have in mind is the mystery—the truth of the assembly as Christ’s body—the immensity of it, and the importance of it, and how essential it is that we should be thoroughly together, in brotherly relations, and mutual respect and appreciation, because the truth cannot work out except in the measure in which that is so. Joseph’s brethren had been guilty of the worst possible conduct to their brother, as well as guilty of heartless action in regard of their father, and all this had to be adjusted, and we were engaged yesterday with the Lord’s grace and skill—in bringing about adjustment wherever it is needed in our localities, so that we might take on the truth of the mystery. But now this morning we have Joseph’s relations with his father, Jacob, and I think we may see, by the Lord’s help, that that involves another line of exercise. It is not a question of dealing with wrong moral conditions, but a question of meeting lack of faith, and of energy in the Spirit; because we need to pass over from living in what is natural, to find our life in what is spiritual. As it says in Colossians 3: 2, “Have your mind on the things that are above”, and “seek the things which are above, where the Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God”. I think Jacob represents, in this part of the history, a believer who needs to be awakened and quickened, on this line, to take on what is spiritual, and not be held by what is natural. And from that point of view, perhaps we need to look at Benjamin, in this section, from another standpoint. In connection with the exercises that the brethren are passed through, he represents, as we were saying, the subjective answer to Christ in the saints. He was born of the same mother as well as of the same father as Joseph, and he represents the overcomer. But now, when we are considering Jacob’s history, I think he represents that which is holding Jacob on natural lines, because in chapter 44, verse 30, Judah, speaking to Joseph in relation to his father, says, “seeing that his life is bound up with his life”. That is, Jacob was bound up in his affections with Benjamin, when, of course, the real need was that he should be bound up in his affections with Joseph. He had, of course, lost sight of Joseph, and thought he was dead. But all this line of exercise that we have before us this morning really has in view that Jacob should be awakened to the fact that Joseph was alive, and that he is to move now in relation to Joseph, and find his life in the system of glory and interests where Joseph is supreme. I thought we might get help together in looking at the passages from that point of view, keeping in mind the exercises through which Jacob is passed.
J.McK. Does glory ultimately play a great part in Jacob’s recovery?
A.J.G. I think so. And hence there is such an unfolding of glory in the first chapter of the epistle to the Colossians, and then the remarkable statement that Christ is “the head of the body, the assembly; who is the beginning, firstborn from among the dead”, Col 1: 18. We have already referred to that, in past meetings, but it is something which I think should impress us, that the Lord as firstborn from among the dead is the beginning. It is as though everything for God begins with Christ in resurrection, and that is to affect our hearts. But had you something else in mind as to glory?
J.McK. I was only thinking of the commission that Joseph gives his brethren, “tell my father of all my glory in Egypt”, Gen 45: 13. And then there is the suggestion that haste should operate in regard to him coming down.
A.J.G. That is a most important matter. The more we look into the typical scriptures, dealing with the assembly in relation to Christ, and other matters, such as Abraham ministering to the divine Visitor in Genesis 18, and so on, the more we find that haste comes into the scriptures, and the need of not losing time.
J.McK. Do you think that, if there is a losing of time, the great impelling power of glory tends to fade with us?
A.J.G. Yes, I am sure of that.
J.McM. Would that be why the apostle refers in 2 Corinthians 3, to “we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, ... are transformed” (v 18), and so on, to stimulate this that you are speaking of?
A.J.G. Yes. There is the ability to take on change, and to take it together. That obviously contemplates the saints as together in assembly, because it says, “we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed”.
W.McK. Was there a similar state with the disciples that the Lord had to deal with after He had risen from among the dead, a state of unbelief and slowness to move away from what was earthly?
A.J.G. Yes. I think so. And then the final recorded word to Peter was “Follow thou me”, John 21: 22. He is entrusted with the service of feeding the lambs, and shepherding the sheep, and feeding the sheep, and then the Lord gives him the final word: “Follow thou me”. That is an important matter in connection with any who would serve, and feed the lambs and feed the sheep, that we must follow the Lord in His movements. Generally His movements will be discerned by the character of the ministry that He gives, and certainly it will not hold us in relation to things here, or what is natural, because the Lord has left those things by way of death, and has introduced in Himself a spiritual order of life and glory, to which we are called.
A.C.S.P. In that connection, may there be some link with Peter’s definite refusal, when he says, “Thou shalt never wash my feet” (John 13: 8), and what Jacob says here, “My son shall not go down”, Gen 42: 38?
A.J.G. Yes. There is sometimes a great tendency with us to be very definite in our thoughts, and emphatic in our statements, but it is a great thing to be ready to be adjusted, even if we have to come to it that we have been wrong. Jacob says, “Joseph is not, and Simeon is not, and ye will take Benjamin! All these things are against me”, Gen 42: 36. And then he speaks of bringing down his grey hairs with sorrow to Sheol. That is the language of a believer who has lost sight of Christ, and who has no idea that his life is bound up with Christ.
J.McK. Is your thought that the understanding of the mystery would save believers from this view of things?
A.J.G. Yes, indeed, the blessedness of being bound up with Christ in life, so that we are His body.
J.McK. So that the objective view in the beginning of Colossians would be very important, would it?
A.J.G. Very important. The epistle starts with such an opening up of glory in connection with Christ, and then presents Him to us as firstborn from among the dead, showing that this system of glory is connected with the other side of death, and it is all intended to set us in movement, do you not think?
J.McK. I think that is very good and important.
R.M.Y. Does the truth of circumcision underlie what you are bringing out? I was thinking particularly of Jacob’s exercises, and the utter failure and end of everything natural. Is Jacob really learning that lesson, as we may say, over again?
A.J.G. Yes. I think he is learning it. And it is very interesting to see how, while he is marked by these things of which we have just read at the end of chapter 42, yet, when it comes to verse 6 of chapter 43, and then again verse 8, and then again verse 11, the Spirit of God calls him Israel, as though the work of God in him is beginning to assert itself.
C.J.H.D. Would the word “bodily” in Colossians 2, indicate how substantially real Christ is to be to us, in that setting in which He now is? It says, “in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” (Col 2: 9), and then “ye are complete in him”. Would the maintenance of Jacob and all that he had by Joseph correspond to that?
A.J.G. I think it would. Joseph’s thought for Jacob was that he should come down to him, and he would maintain him, and maintain him in nearness. There cannot be any greater nearness than the nearness of union, deriving absolutely life from Christ, and being His body; you could not have a greater measure of nearness than that.
E.A.K. Would Jacob’s unpreparedness to trust Reuben, as setting forth the unreliability of nature, over against his readiness to allow Benjamin to go with Judah, bear on what you are saying, as to the thought that is before you?
A.J.G. Yes. You mean that he will not trust nature at all. Reuben, in one sense, is nature at its best. He was the eldest, and in chapter 49 Jacob says of him, “my first-born, My might, and the first-fruits of my vigour: excellency of dignity, and excellency of strength”, v 3. So that he was nature at its best, but proved to be unreliable. But then Judah evidently is coming forward, as one in whom the work of God is asserting itself, and therefore he brings into evidence the work of God in his father, so that his father is called Israel.
E.A.K. Yes, that was what one had in mind. So that Judah at this point is beginning to accept responsibility. There was no value in Reuben’s offering to slay his two sons.
A.J.G. No, exactly, you feel that. And yet we remarked yesterday—just to mention it incidentally, as we are speaking of Reuben—that it is a touching expression of the absolute faithfulness and fairness of the Lord in His dealings, that, when it is a question of retaining one of them bound, Joseph does not take Reuben—as normally he would have done, he being the eldest—but he takes account of the fact that Reuben had done his best, up to a point, to try and save Joseph, and so he takes Simeon and not Reuben. There are very interesting touches, all through these chapters, instructing us in what we find in Christ, His absolute fairness, His deep feelings and yet His readiness if need be to be severe at times, and so on.
N.F.A. Will you say a little more about this touch of what is in Judah bringing out the spiritual matter in Jacob? Do we affect one another in that way?
A.J.G. I think we do. It is most important that we should cultivate and maintain close links with one another, in the intimacy of the divine nature, and in mutual confidence and respect, because then, as near to one another, we can help one another. And if we are moving on right lines, we will exercise an influence for good on others that we are near to. So that Judah, in speaking to his father, says, “Send the lad with me, and we will arise and go, that we may live, and not die, both we and thou and our little ones. I will be surety for him: of my hand shalt thou require him”, Gen 43: 8, 9. I think that is a very different thing from Reuben saying, “Slay my two sons”, Gen 42: 37. There was no moral value in a suggestion that Reuben’s two sons should be slain. But Judah is saying, “I will be surety for him”.
J.McK. Would the extended blessing of Judah, in chapter 49, show how much Israel had laid hold of, as present potentially in Judah?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so.
D.S.H. Is Reuben’s outlook more of death, and a readiness for it, but Judah’s is one of life?
A.J.G. Yes, but Judah is moving on the line of self-sacrifice. It is all very well for Reuben to say, “Slay my two sons”; he is not saying, ‘Slay me’, he is saying, “Slay my two sons”. But Judah is moving on the line of self-sacrifice, and we find in the next chapter, as we had it before us yesterday, that he is prepared to remain a bondman in place of Benjamin; he is moving in love in relation to his brother, and love in relation to his father.
A.H. Does ministry like this amongst the saints bring to light something that we have not heard of before, that can be brought forward as a gift for the man? I was thinking of your reference to Judah, and how he stirs the work of God in Jacob, so that the Spirit of God refers to him as Israel. And now Israel says, in verse 11, “If it is then so, do this: take of the best fruits in the land”, and so forth. Has he come to it now that there is to be a gift presented to Christ?
A.J.G. Yes, and that the Lord is looking for suitable fruits. I suppose it would be the fruit of the Spirit—“the best fruits in the land in your vessels”—and we are each a vessel. Each of us has the Spirit, but is the fruit of the Spirit in evidence? There are the nine elements in Galatians, constituting the fruit of the Spirit. So Israel says, “take of the best fruits in the land in your vessels”.
E.S. Would you say another word as to being surety? Does it suggest that the person who does it must be spiritually wealthy in order to be able to do it?
A.J.G. It was not that he was offering a surety of some thousands of pounds, or anything of that sort, but he was the surety. That is to say, in principle he is laying down his life for the brethren.
G.H.M. Was the work of God, in that way, the direct opposite of Cain not being his brother’s keeper?
A.J.G. Yes. Cain would repudiate the idea of being his brother’s keeper, but Judah is prepared to lay down his life for the brethren.
W.McK. Is Judah here in verse 3 gaining moral power, in the unyielding stand he takes in relation to the word of Joseph?
A.J.G. That is good. He is going to be governed entirely by that, and not going to deflect from it.
H.A.H. Does he represent the fruit of discipline? He had lost his two sons.
A.J.G. Yes, quite so. As a brother remarked yesterday, I think we find the turning point in Judah’s history when he acknowledges that Tamar is more righteous than he. I think we can see from then onwards that there is a certain recovery, and the work of God showing itself in Judah.
J.McM. So that is says, in chapter 49, verse 8, “Judah—as to thee, thy brethren will praise thee”, and so on. Would that be features of Christ coming to light, because it goes on to the thought of the sceptre not departing from Judah, nor the lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come? That is the manifestation of the glory, as we have it in Colossians, is it not?
A.J.G. Yes, it is, exactly. And Judah is developing in features of true leadership, in moral power that shows itself in readiness to sacrifice himself.
R.M.Y. Is it good to see that, through Judah, Jacob is brought back to the Almighty God, in verse 14, of chapter 43? “The Almighty God give you mercy before the man”.
A.J.G. Yes. Say a little more.
R.M.Y. We have been speaking of faith, or the lack of it, with Jacob, but when it comes to the very searching exercises that are in mind here, we come back to God himself, and everything being possible with Him. There is nothing impossible with God.
A.J.G. Yes. “God who raises the dead” (2 Cor 1: 9), Paul says, in writing to the Corinthians. Is that not a practical exercise, that we find ourselves constantly faced with, the necessity for the acceptance of death, if we are to progress in the things of God, in order to reach the spiritual realm, and all that is connected with Christ and the assembly in it?
J.McM. That is helpful, because Paul there refers to the stress of the time when the word came to him as to the state at Corinth, so morally unsuitable. He says, “we ourselves had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not have our trust in ourselves”, 2 Cor 1: 9. Is that the spirit in which God would help us to face those exercises?
A.J.G. Yes, I think it is. So he goes on to say, “death works in us, but life in you”, 2 Cor 4: 12. Those who would serve the saints, I suppose, must always keep that in mind.
S.EW. Is Benjamin’s submissiveness in verse 15 significant?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so. It is remarkable that all through this history, as I think we remarked yesterday, Benjamin does not say a word. But evidently Jacob is progressing in his soul—and it is Israel, really, that is progressing—because he is now letting go Benjamin, to whom he had clung so closely. It was the last thing that was holding him, on the natural line, and now he is prepared to let him go.
W.J.S. Laying hold in faith on the Almighty God.
A.J.G. Yes, exactly.
A.H. Would you say how we really understand that title today, the Almighty God?
A.J.G. We have it brought into 2 Corinthians 6. It says, “I will be to you for a Father, and ye shall be to me for sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty”, 2 Cor 6: 18. So that, while it is a title that, in its distinctiveness perhaps, belongs to a different dispensation, we do not drop it, but carry it forward in Christianity.
A.H. I think that helps, and I wondered whether the sense of that becoming deeply rooted in our souls would help us, in relation to every exercise that God may call upon us to face, such as associations, and so forth.
A.J.G. Quite so. It is the Almighty God who promises to be a Father to those who face up to these matters, and respond to the truth.
A.C.S.P. Does Judah help because he is prepared to be definite about what he is clear as to? He has no light as to going down to dwell under Joseph’s care, any more than Israel, but he does say, “had we not lingered, we should now certainly have returned already twice”, Gen 43: 10.
A.J.G. It is a sure mode of progress to be faithful to the measure of light that we have, and to follow up the truth faithfully, and then we shall find that it is leading somewhere.
C.J.H.D. So that, according to Hosea, Judah is said, not only to walk with God, but “with the holy things of truth”, Hos 11: 12. Does that not involve a following up of the holy things as they are presented to us?
A.J.G. Yes, I think it does.
M.D.S. I would like to enquire about this constantly recurring matter of food. It is the constant matter of the food question coming up that raises those various exercises with the brethren. In our localities it is a wholesome matter, is it not, for this matter of the food question to be faced?
A.J.G. I think it is. If there is an absence of food, we want to enquire why, and what the Lord is getting at, in withholding the food which we would wish to have. There may be ability to teach and open up the truth in a general way, but the thing is, Are the saints being fed?
F.W.K. There was a lack of food, but what about these gifts that are taken down? What would the gifts represent, as over against the famine, and the lack of food? They seem to suggest a certain wealth spiritually, do they?
A.J.G. Yea, I suppose it is arousing exercise as to what we have.
L.M. Would you say a word as to the brethren being subject to their father, and respecting him, and yet they had not divulged what had actually transpired with Joseph? Was that an exercise that they had to wait for the Lord to bring up? I was thinking that Jacob did not know of their treatment of Joseph, and yet they respect their father.
A.J.G. We are not told in the history when Jacob got to know what the secret was of Joseph being in Egypt. I have no doubt it all had to come out. But I am not quite clear what you have in your mind.
L.M. I was thinking of how Judah shines at this point, and yet there was with them this unrevealed matter as to Joseph that had not been settled. They had not confessed anything about it yet.
A.J.G. No, they had not confessed it to their father. I have no doubt they would, although we are not told that they did. As we had yesterday, in chapter 44: 16, Judah says, “God has found out the iniquity of thy servants”. The whole matter was out, and I have no doubt it would all be out with Jacob, sooner or later. But at the moment what is necessary is that Jacob should be set in movement. And so, when they come to him and say, “Joseph is still alive”, you might say, surely he will ask how that has come about, but we are not told anything about that. The great point is that Joseph is still alive.
E.S. Reverting again to the matter of food, if there is a lingering in regard to any matter, would it raise the question of our constitution, and the need for food to develop a constitution to take the step, or to make the move?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. That is what John 6 is largely occupied with, presenting food, in the appropriation of Christ’s death, and eating His flesh and drinking His blood, which will set us in movement towards Christ where He is. It is at that point that many of the disciples say, “This word is hard; who can hear it?” and many of them leave the Lord. The more spiritual the ministry becomes, the more tested we are by it. But then He says to the twelve, “Will ye also go away?” and Peter says, “To whom shall we go?” It is a question of the Person of Christ. Just before that, the Lord had said, “If then ye see the Son of man ascending up where he was before?”, John 6: 62. So that the Lord is directing their thoughts to another sphere, beyond death, and Himself as the centre of it. And then He says, “It is the Spirit which quickens, the flesh profits nothing”. All that really, I believe, underlies what we are considering now, in this section of Jacob’s history.
E.S. And there, in those verses to which you are referring, He says, “The words which I have spoken unto you are spirit and are life”, John 6: 63.
A.J.G. Quite so. And then Peter says, “Thou hast words of life eternal” (v 68), showing that Peter appreciated the words of Christ, even although he may not have understood them all at the time; he had a sense that they were words of life eternal. And that is what we are really to lay hold of; it is eternal life that we are to lay hold of, in the Spirit’s power.
J.McK. Do you think that, in chapter 45, there is a kind of unveiling of the mystery, as Joseph makes known to the brethren, in view of communicating with his father, all the results of the ways of God?
A.J.G. Are you referring to verses 10 and 11, and so on?
J.McK. Yes, but beginning earlier. He speaks of his own person, and his own office, and the way that things were taking, and God sending him before them. It is as though there is a kind of enlightening in all his word to the brethren, having Jacob, his father, in mind.
A.J.G. Yes, so that the history that had preceded had not been a sequence of unhappy incidents, and so on, but God had sent him before them. It is a question of coming on to God’s side of the matter, and seeing what He is effecting.
S.D.K.R. Why does it say, “he saw the waggons that Joseph had sent”? It does not refer to the food, and other things, but it specially states that he saw the waggons, and that sets him in movement.
A.J.G. I suppose it is a question of our eyes being opened to the fact that the Spirit is with us, and has the power to help us into these things. He has come for that very purpose. He has come from Christ in glory, to connect our faith and affections with Christ in glory. And so in John 6 the Lord says, “It is the Spirit which quickens”, v 63.
J.McK. Do you think, too, that their own experience with Joseph played a great part in Israel’s revival? “They spoke to him all the words of Joseph, which he had spoken to them”, Gen 45: 27. There was something to substantiate what was now coming to Israel, in the souls of the brethren.
A.J.G. There was, and yet he did not believe them. It brings to light a certain state of unbelief. Of course, in a sense, you might say, looking at it literally, they were responsible, for they had not been too trustworthy. They might feel reproached themselves that their father did not believe them. But still, it brings to light a state of unbelief.
J.McK. I was wondering whether there is not a little advance, in verse 27, as they would convey to their father something that they had known experimentally with Joseph.
A.J.G. I have no doubt that those things work progressively, in that way. But it is well for us to linger for a moment on what Joseph tells them, that they were to haste and go to his father, and say, “come down to me; tarry not. And thou shalt dwell in the land of Goshen, and thou shalt be near to me, thou, and thy sons, and thy sons’ sons”, and so on, “and all that thou hast. And there will I maintain thee”. And then again he says, “thou, and thy household, and all that thou hast”, Gen 45: 9-11. Previously he had said to his brethren, “Come near to me, I pray you” (v 4), and now they are to say to his father that he is to be near to him, and to be maintained.
J.W. Why did Jacob’s heart faint within him? Was it because of lack of communion with God?
A.J.G. I think it indicates a state of unbelief, but it was overcome, as his eyes were opened to the power there was in the waggons to carry him, and the little ones. We want to recognise, and avail ourselves of, the power that we have, in the Spirit, who has come from Christ in glory, to connect our faith and affections with Christ in glory.
E.A.K. Would you mind saying a word as to the antitypical significance of this thought of maintaining? Is it the idea of going through, in Colossians, into the land? We may have the land in view, but unless we are maintained we will not reach the inheritance in Ephesians. Would it fit into Colossians, in any sense?
A.J.G. I would think so, but I thought perhaps it had in mind dwelling in the land. That is, I think it has in mind the full thought of Ephesians. Not, of course, that Goshen is exactly the land of Canaan, but it is the land—it is called the land of Goshen—and it was a particularly favourable place. I thought it referred to the present time, where all the wealth that is connected with Christ is being made known to us, although we are actually still down here.
J.McM. Would that link on with having the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts? That is to say, He is the Earnest of the heavenly land, is He not?
A.J.G. Yes. Certainly the Lord does not maintain us at the present time in relation to natural things; we prove the mercy of God in them, and can thank God for them, but, as one of our hymns says,
No place can fully please us
Where Thou, O Lord, art not;
In Thee, and with Thee, ever,
Is found, by grace, our lot.
That is the idea, I think, that you cannot rest satisfied in any order of things in which Christ is not.
N.F.A. So that when it says, “thou shalt be near to me, thou, and thy sons, and thy sons’ sons, and thy sheep and thy cattle, and all that thou hast” (Gen 45: 10), does that indicate that all our links are to be there?
A.J.G. They are all to be now linked up with the assembly, and what is known in the assembly.
C.J.B.S. Would there be any suggestion in Colossians 3 of what we enjoy in the land of Goshen? It says, in verse 16, “Let the word of the Christ dwell in you richly, in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another, in psalms, hymns, spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to God”. The theme of this chapter is “the Christ”—the glory of the Person.
A.J.G. Yes, I would think so.
A.B. Does it involve a change of centre, in verse 10, “Thou shalt be near to me, thou, and thy sons, and thy sons’ sons”? That is, their own interests are subordinated to his wishes, are they not? And they are all provided for, are they?
A.J.G. That is it. And the more that is so, the more we are conscious that we are being maintained. Day by day, and week in and week out, until the Lord comes, we are being maintained, just in the measure in which we are, by the Lord’s grace, and in the Spirit’s power, finding our life in His things, in all that is proper to the assembly.
F.J.D. Is that the force of the two references to “life” in the beginning of Colossians 3? It says, “your life is hid with the Christ in God”, and “Christ ... who is our life”.
A.J.G. Yes, quite so. It is hid with the Christ in God. That is to say, we do not figure in this world, and the life of this world; it is a mystery, our life is hid with the Christ in God. And then Christ is our life, and, when He is manifested, then we shall be manifested with Him in glory.
F.W.B. The word to Barzillai was “Pass thou over with me, and I will maintain thee with me in Jerusalem”, 2 Sam 19: 33.
A.J.G. Exactly. That is a very similar passage, but, whereas Jacob responds, Barzillai does not, alas, or at least he only goes over a little way, and then returns to die by his father’s grave, which is a very poor outlook.
A.J.C. Why is it that, when they have been laden with so much provision at the hand of Joseph, he says to his brethren, “Do not quarrel on the way”, Gen 45: 24?
A.J.G. Is there ever such a thing in any of our localities as disagreement among the brethren, do you think?
A.J.C. Yes. I thought you had something in mind that would help us. The enemy is so able at times to get us quarrelling, and getting our eye off of Joseph.
A.J.G. Yes, quite so. “Do not quarrel on the way” is a salutary word. How unfitting it is to those who compose the body of Christ! It says, “let the peace of Christ preside in your hearts, to which also ye have been called in one body, and be thankful”, Col 3: 15.
A.J.C. I was thinking of that coming in Colossians.
A.J.G. Yes.
A.H. Is it significant that, prior to that, the Spirit of God refers to the sons of Israel? In verse 21 it says, “And the sons of Israel did so”. They are under Joseph’s control now, in a way they have never been before. And has this injunction in mind to help us to maintain the dignity that is proper to sonship?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. And so it says in verse 22, “To each one of them all he gave changes of clothing”. That is an important thing, that we have put off the old, and put on the new.
A.H. I was going to enquire if you would say something as to the three hundred pieces of silver that he gave to Benjamin. I was struck with what you referred to, that to each one of them he gave changes of clothing—that is certainly significant—“but to Benjamin he gave three hundred pieces of silver: and five changes of clothing”, Gen 45: 22.
A.J.G. Benjamin as we have been saying, represents the overcomer. There is no fault found with Benjamin anywhere. So that, while he is mingling happily with the brethren, yet, at the same time, the Lord knows how to signalise those whom He approves of. It would be seen that he was possessed of wealth, I suppose.
E.A.K. You were saying that Benjamin did not speak throughout the history, but he is the only one of the brethren who weeps with Joseph. Does it mean that the affinity was restored, through the exercises you are bringing before us, and Benjamin comes back in relation to what has just been spoken of, to the earlier significance of him, as a type?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. That helps very much. And I am glad you have referred to verses 14 and 15 of chapter 45, because it says that “he kissed all his brethren, and wept upon them; and after that his brethren talked with him”. It is as though there is full communion now restored with the brethren. We know from the last chapter of the book that his brethren are not fully established in grace, even then, but still, there is a certain restoration of right relations—now between the brethren and Joseph, arrived at when they “talked with him”.
G.H.M. Referring to that same verse, is not verse 27 of the previous chapter connected with it? It says, “Ye know that my wife bore me two sons”. Is there not a peculiar affinity between what Joseph and Benjamin represent?
A.J.G. There is, undoubtedly, because Joseph and Benjamin were the two sons of Rachel. So that Benjamin is born of the same mother, as well as of the same father, as Joseph. He represents, I do not doubt, the subjective correspondence in the saints to Christ. Whereas in the other ten there was a certain lack in that; but it is no doubt overcome, in large measure, by Joseph’s dealings with them.
G.H.M. Is there not, in that way, a peculiar link between the Lord and the overcomer, in Revelation 2 and 3?
A.J.G. Yes, especially the overcomer in Philadelphia.
A.C.S.P. Why does Joseph call such particular attention to the fact that it is “my mouth which speaks to you”, Gen 45: 12? I was struck with the way it is put: “your eyes see, and the eyes of my brother Benjamin, that it is my mouth which speaks to you”. I wondered whether that was a great point when the Lord would give us an assurance that He Himself was speaking, and the brethren, so to speak, all come round to be in line with Benjamin, prepared to move, now they have that assurance.
A.J.G. I would think so. So that we get the expression of speaking “mouth to mouth”, as well as speaking “face to face”. We get both expressions in scripture. So that the Lord would emphasise, as you say, His personal speaking, and then with a view to their coming into a corresponding personal relation with Himself.
D.S.H. Was it not that same mouth that had at the first spoken of the dreams to them?
A.J.G. Exactly. And now it says, “And the spirit of Jacob their father revived. And Israel said, It is enough: Joseph my son is yet alive; I will go and see him before I die”. And the next verse is, “And Israel took his journey”. That is, that if we say we must do something before we die, we had better do it now, because we do not know when we are going to die. I mean, if he comes to that—“I will go and see him before I die”—the next thing is that he goes, he moves.
J.McM. And does that lead the way then for God to speak to us afresh?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so. He is now moving on right lines, and God speaks in a confirmatory way. “God spoke to Israel in the visions of the night and said, Jacob, Jacob!”, Gen 46: 2.
A.C.S.P. It would seem that he only had a visit in mind, but God really confirms what He is going to do there.
A.J.G. Yes. It was, of course, a serious matter to leave the land of Canaan, and to go down into Egypt, and I have no doubt that is why God specially gives him this confirmation, that He is in the matter. But still, it is not exactly, in one sense, that he is leaving the heavenly sphere, or the assembly range of interests, because he goes down to where Joseph is supreme; it is just a difference in the type.
A.H-e. Had not God already told Abraham about this very matter, that they would go down to Egypt?
A.J.G. Yes, that would come about in God’s ways. But they were to go to Egypt, as far as God made it known to Abraham, in order to be in bondage there. But here Jacob is to go down to Egypt because Joseph is there.
J.McK. But in verse 4 it says, “I will also certainly bring thee up”. Would that be sufficient for faith?
A.J.G. That would be sufficient for faith. And then the word is, “and Joseph shall put his hand on thine eyes”. That is, his outlook is entirely regulated now by Christ,—an important thing for us.
J.McK. In Ephesians 1 Paul not only speaks of “the good pleasure of his will” (v 5), and “the mystery of his will” (v 9); but he speaks of “him who works all things according to the counsel of his own will”, v 11. Do we see that in the way in which God is speaking to Jacob, unfolding things?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so.
J.McK. I was thinking it would be a comfort to us. Sometimes we are tested in our faith as to whether things are going through, but the One who has purposed to reach His end, is the One who works all things according to the counsel of His own will.
A.J.G. Yes, and then Joseph is yet alive! He is “the beginning, firstborn from among the dead”, Col 1: 18. The Lord is in an unassailable position, and all the thoughts of God are centred in Him. And the assembly is bound up with Him, and lives in His life.
A.H. So that this is a wonderful answer to the word, “All these things are against me”, Gen 42: 36.
A.J.G. Exactly. You cannot help feeling what a contrast there is between chapter 42, and what Jacob says there, and what he comes to now, and especially what he says in verse 30 of chapter 46.
A.B. Is it usually God’s way to confirm, after there is a move? It says that Israel took his journey, and then you got the confirmation in God’s speaking to him, in verse 2.
A.J.G. Yes, exactly. But he took his journey “with all that he had”, and that is another important matter. We are to take all that we have, so that we do not leave the children behind, and we do not have certain reserved interests of our own, but the whole thing is now to be brought into relation to Christ and His interests in the assembly.
A.H-e. Do we see the spiritual energy in this movement of rising up from Beer-sheba at this time? Does not Beer-sheba suggest to us where we learn to have confidence in God and His faithfulness?
A.J.G. Yes, it does.
A.H-e. And it is also, is it not, seen that it is a place where there are divine communications, both to Abraham and Isaac, and to Jacob?
A.J.G. Yes, that is very good. So that it is the ‘Well of the oath’ and speaks, as you say, of divine faithfulness.
W.McK. You referred, earlier in the meeting, to Colossians 3: 1, “Seek the things which are above, where the Christ is”. What distinction do you see between that and what Paul says in Philippians 3: 14, “the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”?
A.J.G. As far as I understand things, I think the calling on high of God in Christ Jesus is what we are called to. I mean, Paul was thinking of it in an individual way, of being found in Christ, and he was keeping that steadily before him. But Colossians 3 has in mind the interests of Christ in the assembly, has it not?
W.McK. I am just seeking for help. That is the matter that is before us this morning, is it not, the matter of reaching Christ where He is?
A.J.G. Yes, but then I think “the things ... above” is not exactly things literally in heaven. They are morally above; they are the things of Christ, and at the moment they are located in the assembly. That is how I understand it.
W.McK. That is very good, and that helps. It is the system that is operating under the influence of Christ.
A.J.G. That is it. It is operating from Christ, who is above, at the right hand of God, but actually it is operating down here, and we are to have our mind on those things, that are morally above.
D.S.H. Is it in line with “Jerusalem above ... which is our mother”, Gal 4: 26? You were speaking of the mother feature earlier.
A.J.G. Yes, quite so.
J.D. Is that finding expression in the words, “the sons of Israel carried Jacob their father, and their little ones, and their wives” (Gen 46: 5) and so on? I was thinking of the feature of love and affection that is coming in now.
A.J.G. That is very interesting. So that there is consideration in evidence for the aged, and consideration for the young, and all those are practical matters by which we are bound together, “united together in love”. So that the mystery is a very practical thing among the saints. It is not something theoretical; it is a very practical matter, that we are united together in love, and held in relation to Christ and His interests in the assembly.
W.B.H. And you are thinking that this has peculiar bearing upon our being set together in our various localities.
A.J.G. Yes, indeed. And if we are not, or if we are living in what is natural, it greatly hinders the service of God, and it greatly saps the spiritual vitality of the saints.
F.J.D. Do you think that, if we are committed to what is spiritual, we shall influence, not only our families, but the brethren in our localities, too? I was thinking of “all his seed”, Gen 46: 6.
A.J.G. We should, quite so. And so, when Jacob reaches Joseph, it says, in verse 30 of chapter 46, “And Israel said to Joseph, Now let me die, after I have seen thy face, since thou still livest.” It is not a question now of his grey hairs being brought down in sorrow to Sheol. It is something like Simeon saying, “Now thou lettest thy bondman go, according to thy word, in peace” (Luke 2: 29). That is, he has got Christ before him typically now, and he is perfectly satisfied. He says, “Now let me die”. Actually he does not, for he lives another seventeen years, in great dignity, and liberty, and the spirit of blessing marking him. But really Jacob, as to all that is natural, has died, and he is living now in the life of Christ.
A.H. Had you in mind to say anything about this fresh commission that is given to Judah, in verse 28?
A.J.G. No, I had not. But have you something in mind?
A.H. I was interested in it when you had the passage read. This trustworthy element is one that, you might say, can be employed to approach Joseph. It all emphasises this matter of his glory, does it not?
A.J.G. Yes, quite so. I think it is a very fine touch with which we finish here, in Israel’s word to Joseph—“Now let me die, after I have seen thy face, since thou still livest”, Gen 46: 30. It is as though that was all that mattered.
H.Hs. The note says ‘this time’.
A.J.G. ‘This time’, quite so.
____________________