⬇ EPUB

READINGS ON DANIEL

MEETINGS IN NOTTINGHAM

4^th-6^th April 1953

(SATURDAY TO MONDAY)

Reading 1—Saturday morning

A.J.G. Daniel lived in days when the state of things amongst God’s people was marked by complete departure and captivity indeed, and in which the state of things amongst men was shown to be characterised by deterioration and hence the book has application to ourselves. One of the items in the system to which Hebrews 12 says we have come to “God, judge of all”, and Daniel’s name, as we know, means ‘God is judge’. I think his history sets forth that feature of the truth, that whatever the changing and testing conditions in the world, Daniel maintained the truth to the end because he had in his soul that God was Judge, that God was the Judge of Nebuchadnezzar and of Darius and of the rest as He was the Judge of Daniel, and therefore he would walk before God and that gave him great steadfastness. Another thing that might be noticed, which perhaps we do not always realise, is that the history of Daniel is concerned first of all with his youth, and then with his old age, that is, he is said to be a youth in this chapter, if he were say 18 years old at that time, then by the first year of Cyrus he was 88, and by the third year of Cyrus, which is mentioned in one of the later chapters, he was 90, and by the time he was cast into the den of lions he was 86. So that the book commences with Daniel as a youth, showing the moral features that came into evidence with him very early in his life, and the fruit of that maintained right through to the end of a long life, so that it says at the end of chapter 1, that he continued unto the first year of king Cyrus, and the end of chapter 6 is that “this Daniel”, that is to say, such a man as he was, prospered in the reign of Darius and in the reign of Cyrus the Persian. So that the first half of this book, the first six chapters which are historical, give us the idea of continuance and prosperity, the second half give us the idea of lovability and intelligence in the mind of God. I thought it might help us to look at the book from that standpoint, so that we might seek to take on similar features as being in conditions not dissimilar from those that Daniel was in, and in opening the book, might see the importance of commencing on right moral lines, particularly the younger ones amongst us, to start young on moral lines that are to be maintained right through to the end, and the key to that is the sense in the soul that God is Judge.

N.K.McL. Does that involve having secret personal relations with God Himself?

A.J.G. Yes it would. The sense that God is looking at everything and everyone and has His own judgment about it, and will bring this judgment to light in due time.

G.R.C. Were you linking that with the expression that we have come to “God, judge of all” in Hebrews?

A.J.G. Yes, I was.

G.R.C. Prior to that, it says; we have come to ‘‘the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem”, and Daniel had come to that in principle, had he? Jerusalem was a centre for him.

A.J.G. It says in regard of Jerusalem “they shall prosper that love thee” (Ps 122: 6), and I have no doubt that was the secret of Daniel’s prosperity, that Jerusalem was in his thoughts according to God’s mind regarding it; for us the assembly is to be in our thoughts continually.

W.S.S. Would you link the thought of God as Judge with the passages in Revelation 18 where it says God has “judged your judgment upon her” (v 20) that is Babylon? My question has in mind Daniel would have a judgment of things as God Himself had.

A.J.G. Yes, quite so. Another thing that comes out in chapter 2 is that Daniel says in verse 28 to Nebuchadnezzar that “there is a God in the heavens, who revealeth secrets, and maketh known to king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be at the end of days”. That is, God might give Nebuchadnezzar certain light as to the then moment that Nebuchadnezzar himself was the head of gold, but what God was really doing was showing Nebuchadnezzar what would be at the end of days, that is it is the appearing that is to be in our minds, it is the appearing that is before the mind of God as the great answer to the conditions that are found at the present time in the world.

W.H.K. Is there a similarity in the end of 2 Timothy, where Paul speaks about the Lord, the righteous judge, who will give to me a crown of righteousness and to all who love His appearing?

A.J.G. Yes, I thought there is a link also with the last chapter of 1 Timothy which says “I enjoin thee before God”, and so on “that thou keep the commandment spotless, irreproachable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ; which in its own time the blessed and only Ruler shall show, the King of those that reign, and Lord of those that exercise lordship; who only has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light”, and so on “to whom be honour and eternal might. Amen”. Things are to be kept irreproachable until the appearing, and God is brought before us as the only Ruler, if Jehoiakim or Cyrus or others rule they are just placed there by God, but God is the only Ruler.

A.H. He is writing that to a youth, is he not?

F.C.H. This question coming in while we are young would deliver us from the fear and favour of man, which is very important to start with?

A.J.G. That is important, hence this sense in our souls that God is Judge is such an important beginning, and the keeping the commandment irreproachable until the appearing. As to these four youths that are brought forward, their names all have some reference to God, they all end either in “el” or in “Jah”, but the intention of Nebuchadnezzar was to change their names and rob them of the distinctiveness that indicated that they were standing for God. Daniel and his companions could not, of course, hinder them from attaching different names to them—they remained true to their names right through, especially Daniel.

F.C.H. And in this section those names are preserved, are they not?

A.J.G. They are.

A.M.P. That is also a feature of the first book of Chronicles, that the names embody the name of God. Would it be right to say that our place in the assembly, in the sphere of privilege, runs alongside of our place in the testimony in the public sphere, in that regard?

A.J.G. Yes, I think so, but say a little more as to the two sides.

A.M.P. It is in the position of testimony here in this book, is it not, in the public sphere, having to do with end of dispensation conditions—what we are formed for that purpose goes alongside our being formed in relation to the service of the house of God.

A.J.G. And I have no doubt the two positions re-act one upon the other, each strengthening the other as they are taken up with God.

J.A.P. How does the thought of all judgment having been committed to the Son fit in with what you are saying?

A.J.G. The Son is God, it is a prerogative of God to judge, but the Father judges no one. The Father is the dominant thought in the Economy and in all eternity, and God will not have the thought of judgment dominating, but then it is His prerogative to judge, and therefore He commits all judgment to the Son.

J.S.E. Does not the personal unfolding to Daniel by Gabriel show that the Son is yet to appear as the Messiah, but He has to go a certain way before He enters into His sphere of dominion? We have to keep that by itself have we, and pursue what is here in relation to God in the absoluteness of His own title?

A.J.G. Yes, I think so. But when we say God is Judge it means God in contrast to men, I take it, and it delivers completely from the fear of man.

W.C. Does the reference in John 16 to the Spirit’s service enter into the matter in our day, bringing demonstration to the world of judgment, and then the Ruler of this world is judged? Does He (the Spirit) come into it in our day to help us as well?

A.J.G. I think so. I know nothing more encouraging than the sense that God Himself has entered into the situation in the Person of the Spirit. He first entered into the position in the Person of Christ to bring in a solution to all that had come in through sin, but now He enters into the position in the Person of the Spirit and that ensures that the testimony might go through and the truth be maintained according to God.

W.C. I was thinking of it in reference to what was said about “but there is a God in the heavens”, but there is a God down here as well?

A.J.G. Quite so.

J.S.E. Does the matter become more simple when we see that the word ‘God is judge’ as in the meaning of Daniel, is God in the singular, and not in the fullest usage of the term “God”?

A.J.G. I think we have to take scripture as it states it, that God is Judge. “How shall God judge the world?” (Rom 3: 6), the apostle says, showing that He must judge it, it is His prerogative to judge, but then God sees to it that the One who is supreme in the economy has no thought of judgment connected with Him, the Father is supreme.

R.W. Does not Abraham say, “will not the Judge of all the earth do right”?

A.J.G. Yes, he does.

C.W.O’L.M. Does this matter of ‘God is judge’ commence with secret soul history, it is not just an objective truth in our minds is it?

A.J.G. No, I am sure it is not. It commences with soul history—and works out first of all in self judgment, as in the fear of God, and that is particularly intensified now in that the Holy Spirit is dwelling in us.

A.H. Would Peter’s word bear on that do you think? He speaks in chapter 1 of his first epistle of remarkable blessings, but he goes on, “Be ye holy, for I am holy. And if ye invoke as Father Him who, without regard of persons, judges according to the work of each, pass your time of sojourn in fear”. Would that have a bearing on what you are saying?

A.J.G. I have often been impressed with that scripture as bringing in a remarkable combination of grace and government, that we invoke as Father; we are in the full light and enjoyment of the Father’s name and our relationship to Him as His children, and yet the One we invoke as Father judges according to the work of each without respect of persons, so that the idea of government which always attaches to the creatures remains notwithstanding the favour in which we are set.

G.R.C. Does what God is as judge flow from what He is in His nature? “Our God is a consuming fire”.

A.J.G. Yes, quite so, and He would maintain His own rights because He knows that for Him to have His full place means blessing to the creature.

F.C.H. What Peter says bears upon it, does it, that the Lord Jesus Himself committed Himself into the hands of Him who judges righteously.

A.J.G. Yes.

W.M.B. Is it in keeping with what you are saying that the covenant name of God, Jehovah, is little used in this scripture?

A.J.G. Yes, I think so, Daniel is sensitive you might say as to conditions that had come in through unfaithfulness of the people. Is that what you have in mind?

W.M.B. And also as bearing on the public position. You alluded to Timothy, “the blessed and only Potentate” would be in keeping with the thought of the Most High God, God of the heavens, would it?

A.J.G. Yes, quite so. Another thing that comes to light in this book as we have it in chapter 2, is that Daniel serves God, He blesses God, you might say he worships Him. Nebuchadnezzar, it says, worshipped Daniel, but I have no doubt that he recognised in Daniel a representation of God, and what the king says, “of a truth it is that your God is the God of gods, and the Lord of kings”, shows that the result is that Nebuchadnezzar worships God, and we get the same with Darius later on, that the result of Daniel’s faithfulness is that God is publicly honoured.

B.S. You referred to the names of the children, does that involve that they were formed in some knowledge of God themselves, young as they were?

A.J.G. Yes, I think so, and the enemy’s attempt would be to change that, he would have them taught the learning and the language of the Chaldeans, notice that, the language of the Chaldeans, not only their learning but their language, but God would have His people speak a pure language.

W.S.S. Going back to your remark about God being worshipped, do we get it suggested in this book, the fidelity of the saints throughout the dispensation which will finally result in God being glorified?

A.J.G. Yes, quite so, but I think it is clear from the book as we proceed, that while we are let into the secret of how things are going to work out on the earth, it is the appearing that God would keep before our minds, it was the end of the days that He had in mind in giving Nebuchadnezzar this dream.

W.S.S. I was thinking in that connection that the principles, if one may so speak, on which the testimony will be continued until the appearing, are set out in the book. Would you say that?

A.J.G. Yes, I would,

E.R.S. Is purpose of heart a very necessary thing? I was thinking of what you said particularly about the youth, not to drift. Some of us have drifted in our time. I was thinking of purpose of heart, and then when Barnabas comes to the young converts he exhorts them with purpose of heart to abide with the Lord.

A.J.G. Well, that is a most important feature if we are to continue, the great point that is mentioned of Daniel in this chapter is that he continued, continued until the first year of king Cyrus. He commences with the third year of Jehoiakim, which was the beginning of the captivity, and the first year of Cyrus was the end of the captivity, that is seventy years is covered in that last verse of the first chapter which were marked by continuance on the part of Daniel.

J.P.H. What were you going to say about the language?

A.J.G. Well, we read in the prophet about a pure language (Zeph 3: 9), there is a great tendency with us all to take on the language of the world and that was the effort here, that they should learn not only the learning but the language of the Chaldeans, but Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not become defiled; there is a language that benefits those who know God, that is all I had in mind.

J.P.H. I was thinking of verse 4, there was required youths “in whom was no blemish”. Does that mean that we have everything out with the Lord and are preserved in self judgment?

A.J.G. That is what would mark them, I take it, as having been formed to some extent by their knowledge of God. The enemy’s effort was to overthrow that, or to corrupt it, but these four youths, and especially Daniel, stood firm.

J.S.E. Is the broad principle that there is a present effort to fit what really belongs to God into the world’s system and give it the greatest advantages there? Does not the whole matter come back to this matter of what we feed upon?

A.J.G. It does, and the food outwardly would appear very simple, pulse and water, but it was enough to sustain the four young men in life and health, and God saw to it that they had all the understanding that they needed.

W.S.S. Is it not very striking that notwithstanding the responsibilities which Daniel carried, he would never have been mistaken for a Babylonian?

A.J.G. Exactly. We cannot expect, of course, in our day, that faithfulness to God would result in anyone getting a prominent place in the political world, that would be out of the question now that Christ has come and been rejected, but at the same time it is clear that Daniel and his companions were maintained in their fidelity notwithstanding the position that they found themselves placed in.

J.S.E. Does not that just answer your two key expressions, “Daniel continued?” and “this Daniel prospered”—that is, that name by which God knew him is carried through?

A.J.G. Yes, and I think the secret is that they were prepared at any time to surrender their position for the truth’s sake. They would go into the fiery furnace, or into the den of lions if need be, they would not in any circumstances compromise, and that is an important matter because the saints as marked by integrity and the fear of God very often get on in business and so on, and in a sense it is only to be expected that they should, but the danger is that they may arrive at a point when they have to compromise the truth or lose their position, and then the test comes, and what was true of Daniel and the three young men was that they were prepared at any point to lose their position, and even go into the den of lions or the furnace if need be.

N.K.McL. Is this keeping the commandment irreproachable?

A.J.G. Keeping it irreproachable until the appearing.

K.S. Has the death of Christ a bearing on that?

A.J.G. It has, yes. That is the end of all human glory which the flesh in us might covet, and it is the great example of a mind to go down, and if we begin to get up, in the ways of God, in business or what not, let us see to it that we keep in our minds the mind to go down, that is to say, that we never surrender the truth for the sake of advantage.

W.S.S. So the apostle says “we ourselves had the sentence of death in ourselves”.

H.P. Is that a similar exercise to Paul’s exercises in 2 Corinthians 5, walking before God in relation to the judgment seat.

A.J.G. Yes.

C.W.O’L.M. Is there any moral sequence in your mind in pulse and water as building up this constitution? I do not know whether you would allow it to come in, but I wondered whether pulse might suggest the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, who went down to the lowest position in bondmanship, and water would be the power of the Spirit. Is that allowable?

A.J.G. I have no doubt there is some suggestion of that sort, it is an allusion, no doubt, to Christ and the Spirit, and it would be food which in the eyes of the world would seem contemptible, but which is the secret of real health and prosperity.

J.S.E. It was not used generally in those circumstances.

A.H. Have you anything in mind as to the reference in verse 2 “and he carried them into the land of Shinar, to the house of his god”. I was thinking of the place that Shinar is given by the Spirit of God in scripture, the exposure that is made of it?

A.J.G. It was the foundation of Babylon was it not?

A.H. Quite, and Zechariah shows that it is the very seat of wickedness. I wondered whether these vessels carried there would be seen in these beloved men themselves, Daniel and his companions.

A.J.G. I think so. Yes.

R.W. Following on Mr Helen’s question, it was a part of the vessels.

A.J.G. Indicating the character of the hand of God upon His people, that part of the vessels were carried away. It was mercy, perhaps, that they were not all carried away at that time, as though God was giving them space to repent—but we know it was completed nineteen years later.

W.C. Did Daniel have the idea of the vessels still being there in Jerusalem, part of them at any rate? It says Daniel opened his windows towards Jerusalem, having in mind that the service of God was still connected with the city?

A.J.G. Quite so.

E.R.S. Is it significant that the land of Shinar is mentioned in Genesis 11, that is where they were going to build the tower to reach up to heaven and to make themselves a name? Is that the spirit of the world as over against all that Daniel was standing for?

A.J.G. Yes, quite so,

S.C. I was just wondering if in fact what comes out in the book of Daniel resulted in the death of Christ.

A.J.G. Quite so, so in the passage we have referred to in Timothy, Paul enjoins on him before God and before Christ Jesus, who witnessed the good confession, that is we have the pattern in Christ of faithfulness in the conditions in which we are found now.

N.K.McL. Do we need to make spiritual resolves? It says that Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not pollute himself.

A.J.G. Yes, and then as we do so, do you not think God comes in for us?

N.K.McL. Quite so; there was one thing that he would not do. He would rely on pulse and water, but this is what he would not do.

A.J.G. And then he does not adopt an uncompromising attitude hastily, but dependently. It says “he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not have to pollute himself. And God granted Daniel favour and mercy before the prince of the eunuchs”. It is a great thing to move in such a way that while you are determined not to compromise, you are moving dependently so as to give opportunity for God to come in.

F.A.W. Does it suggest that his companions are influenced by his decision—a right lead by Daniel?

A.J.G. Well, very likely, Daniel certainly takes the lead.

A.M.P. Would it not bear on parental responsibility too? Very often these decisions are made very young are they not? Ought not parents to put moral teaching before any education that the world provides?

A.J.G. I am sure that is important, and to see that the world is the world even though in God’s ways the government may be favourable to God’s people and the testimony, and there may be certain features that look commendable, but at the same time, at bottom, it is the world of man’s glory.

W.W. I wondered if the king did not recognise that there was something superior in these men to anything they had in Babylon?

A.J.G. That is just it. The world is glad to have Christians if they will contribute to the world system, but Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not pollute himself with the king’s delicate food, nor with the wine which he drank.

W.S.S. Do you think it might well be emphasised for the help of us all, what you have referred to in that connection as to Daniel requesting, his dependent attitude or perhaps we might say gracious attitude, he did not speak of the king’s delicate food as polluted food or anything of that, did he? I was thinking of what our attitude should be, I was thinking of the young people here today, in circumstances which in principle are similar to this.

A.J.G. Quite so. He requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he should not have to pollute himself, and then later on it says Daniel said to the steward, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over them, “Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days”; so that he is very wise and dependent in the way he approaches things.

W.S.S. It would commend him, would it not?

A.J.G. It would.

F.C.H. You mean that the ten days carried forward this thought of being dependent?

A.J.G. Yes, and he uses the same respectful attitude toward the steward whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over them as he does toward the prince of the eunuchs himself.

W.S.S. And we are tested in these things are we not, in business and in many ways, and there are great principles indicated for us here to help us as to our bearing and deportment.

A.J.G. All with a view to continuing right through to the end, keeping the commandment irreproachable until the appearing.

A.C. Would the question of the ten days have reference to the end of verse 20 “he found them ten times better than all the scribes and magicians that were in all his realm”?

A.J.G. Well, that was apparently at the end of the complete period of three years, they were to be nourished three years that at the end thereof they might stand before the king. But these ten days just gave time for God to come in for them and show at the end of the ten days that their countenances were fairer and fatter than all the youths that ate of the king’s delicate food. All that would be confirmatory.

A.C. Quite so. I just wondered whether the one had a bearing on the other.

N.K.McL. So it is a great victory when the steward takes away their delicate food and the wine that they should drink, and gave them pulse.

A.J.G. Quite.

H.P. How would that work out today in relation to our place in the world, the taking away of this delicate food?

A.J.G. It is just, I think, that God came in for them. We may expect God to come in for us too, if we desire to be faithful. We do not know how He may come in, it is important to bear in mind that prosperity spiritually does not necessarily involve prosperity in material circumstances, but we have to be prepared for surrender and loss if need be, so the Lord says, “if anyone will come after me let him take up his cross daily and follow me”.

C.W.O’L.M. Is it significant in that way that as following on this matter God gives them knowledge?

A.J.G. It is, it is God’s vindication of their faithfulness, I think.

J.T.S. Peter speaks of strangers and sojourners, and he says, “abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; having your conversation honest among the Gentiles, that as to that in which they speak against you as evildoers, they may through your good works, themselves witnessing them, glorify God”. Would that help us on these lines?

A.J.G. Yes, it would. Peter’s epistle is very largely on the line of the government of God, and the government of God operates in favour of those who fear Him.

J.T.S. And leads to His glorification.

A.J.G. Yes, indeed.

A.P.B. Would it appear that this matter of partaking of the delicate food was compulsory, but they were allowed not to have to take it after requesting. I thought we were faced with conditions which seemed compulsory, but God is prepared to come in if we request in a suitable way?

A.J.G. I am sure that has been borne out in the experience of the saints. The whole book is interesting in that way, and we feel that the first chapter lays a moral basis for all that is to follow in the book; and indicates that we are to begin young on these lines.

H.P. I was thinking of that in relation to the matter of trade unions and other things even, that younger persons might come against, actually if we were morally in this state would not God make a way through for us, as He has done in many places, and in other countries as well?

A.J.G. Yes, quite so.

W.S.S. I have been very much struck by the fact that the moral power of Daniel and his companions was a result of what they declined to do, not the things they did, but what they could not do.

A.J.G. Exactly.

A.L.R.T. At the end of Luke 2 it says, “Jesus advanced in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and men”. Would that be a little like the state of these youths, do you think—at this point?

A.J.G. Yes, at this point, “in favour with God and men”, but then when it comes to a question of the testimony then He incurs hostility because of His faithfulness to the truth, and that is what comes out in chapter 3 and chapter 6 of this book.

E.R.S. Is it encouraging that it is God that grants this favour? He uses men in authority to do it, but God is granting this mercy and favour, all men are in His hands, the authorities are in His hands, all the young men of today have to face the tribunals and military service, but they prove that God grants them mercy and favour.

A.J.G. And so Daniel in chapter 2 blesses the God of the heavens, and says, “Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever; For wisdom and might are his. And it is he that changeth times and seasons; He deposeth kings and setteth up kings. He giveth wisdom to the wise”, and so on. That is that Daniel is now attributing everything to God.

W.H.T. Is that the way in which testimony is borne to God judging the world?

A J.G. It is a matter of favour really to men.

W.H.T. I was thinking of what God says, that God has appointed a day in which He will judge the world?

A.J.G. Yes, I think if we are walking before God, that He is the Judge of all, we are really bearing testimony to that fact.

W.H.T. And its effect is blessing is it, not exactly of judgment in the sense of God wiping the scene in His judgment?

A.J.G. Quite so. I think the dream in chapter 2 is a very important one because it enables us to have a moral judgment of rule as entrusted to man. God in the dream shows that He is pleased to entrust rule to man, but that in man’s hands it deteriorates, so that while at the end of the days which are upon us now it has the appearance of great strength there is great moral deterioration connected with it and great weakness too. Nebuchadnezzar might be the head of gold, God was pleased to set forth in Nebuchadnezzar a certain representation of what was proper to God as the Ruler, but Nebuchadnezzar was not morally equal to it and as the times go on deterioration is manifest.

A.M. Does not the first part of chapter 2 show that Nebuchadnezzar was not really morally equal to this principle of judgment? For instance he was irritated and very wroth, he was ruthless and prepared to destroy without enquiry, those are not features of true justice are they?

A.J.G. No, they are not.

A.M.P. He was not in the secret of God’s activities was he?

A.J.G. No. Hence it seems to me that it is very significant that Daniel should tell Nebuchadnezzar at the start that God was making known to king Nebuchadnezzar what should be at the end of days; it was not God’s thought to occupy Nebuchadnezzar with Nebuchadnezzar’s greatness, but what should be at the end of days.

G.R.C. Were you thinking we need the light of this vision in order to pray intelligently according to the prayers of 1 Timothy 2?

A.J.G. I think we do, but say a little more, will you?

G.R.C. There is the public side of the house of God and our place in testimony, and in Timothy Paul is speaking of prayer in that relation is he not? He puts prayer as the first thing in that connection, in public testimony, the right kind of prayer for kings and those in dignity and for all men, is of first importance.

A.J.G. Quite so.

F.P. Jeremiah was instructed to pray for the cities in which they were in captivity. Would Daniel carry that out?

A.J.G. Yes, I think he would.

G.R.C. I wondered whether God would give us wisdom and intelligence on the line of the mystery of His will in Ephesians and the prayers in that epistle, and on the other hand He would give us wisdom and intelligence as to the times of the Gentiles, so that on both lines we can pray intelligently.

A.J.G. Yes, I think so. The Lord, when one of His disciples asked Him to teach them to pray, says, “When ye pray, say, Father, thy name be hallowed; thy kingdom come”, as though these are the dominant things that are to engage us in our minds and our prayers, that God’s name is to be hallowed, and that His kingdom is to come.

K.S. Is it instructive that the Father is Lord of heaven and earth, and the things concerning the judgment of this world were hid from the eyes of the wise and prudent and revealed unto babes? The Lord had just been speaking of the judgment of Sodom and of the cities in which His mighty works were done, and I was thinking of how the Father is Lord of heaven and earth and is speaking of hiding things from the wise and prudent and revealing them to babes.

A.J.G. I would not limit what He hides and what He reveals to babes to the thought of the judgment of the world. I think He hides all His choicest things from the wise and prudent and reveals them to babes, only Daniel is occupied; of course, with the course of things on the earth, and from one point of view that is what we have before us, so that we keep the appearing in mind as the great answer to the conditions that exist on the earth.

C.W.O’L.M. Does the service of the Spirit as bringing demonstration to the world of sin and righteousness and judgment, come into the early part of this book?

A.J.G. Yes, I think so, because that does not mean that the world itself is convicted but rather that the saints as having the Spirit see things clearly as God sees them, and have His judgment about the world system by which they are surrounded.

R.F.D. Would the scripture in 2 Timothy help where it says “I testify before God and Christ Jesus, who is about to judge living and dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom, proclaim the word; be urgent in season and out of season, convict, rebuke, encourage, with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time shall be when they will not bear sound teaching”. I was thinking that provides the answer to counteract apostasy and what is contrary to the truth.

A.J.G. Yes, and the apostle brings in the appearing and kingdom, as that by means of which, or in the light of which, Timothy was to be strengthened to go on, because there everything will find its proper answer and reward, so that the great point in this dream given to Nebuchadnezzar is the stone cut out of a mountain without hands, and breaking in pieces the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, and then becoming a mountain which fills the whole earth.

R.W. Is there any suggestion here of temple light?

A.J.G. I think there might be, in that Daniel went to his house and made the thing known to his companions, that they would desire mercies of the God of the heavens concerning this secret, and then it says, then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision, that is, they enquire of God and God gives them light, not, of course, quite in the same way as we know it now in the Spirit in the assembly but that is the principle, that they enquire.

F.C.H. What is your impression about the stone cut out without hands becoming a great mountain and filling the whole earth?

A.J.G. Well, it is the coming kingdom, the kingdom of Christ; in a sense I suppose we might say it is Christ Himself. It is a great thing to have light in our souls because that helps us to judge of things. One has often thought of what it says in Ephesians 4, for instance, because things become much more personal with us, it says that Christ “has ascended up above all the heavens, that He might fill all things”. That enables us to have a judgment of things, that a day is shortly coming when there will not be room for anything but what is of Christ.

F.C.H. I was wondering if it would include the work of God in the saints in relation to Christ?

A.J.G. I think it would. The mountain fills the whole earth, and the heavenly city, of course, will come down from heaven from God to illumine the universe.

W.C. Would that link on with all those who love His appearing? It speaks of the righteous Judge there, and then all those who love His appearing. They would be the means by which the whole earth will be filled?

A.J.G. Quite so.

J.A.P. What is the Father’s kingdom, do you think? “Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father”.

A.J.G. I suppose it is a kingdom which is dominated by grace. There is power to make it effective and to deal with all that is opposed. So the day of the Lord seems to be connected in scripture with judgment, but then that is just to bring in a condition of things which is dominated by the light of what God is as known in grace.

J.S.E. Then there is the day of Christ.

A.J.G. Yes, exactly. A day when Christ is in evidence in all that He is in contrast to man’s day, and then there is the day of God which is eternity.

W.H.K. At the beginning of Luke when Christ is born the angels said, “He shall be great, and shall be called Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for the ages, and of his kingdom there shall not be an end”. Does that correspond with this word as to the stone?

A.J.G. Yes, except that that is limited, of course, to God’s promises to Israel, the house of Jacob, but then this is a far wider thought, and extends to the whole earth.

W.S.S. Should not the coming glory of Christ have a large place in our thoughts and affections?

A.J.G. I think it should. One feels how challenged one is as to how far it is so, but it is a question of whether we love His appearing.

J.S.E. Does not all this line of teaching tend to assert in our souls the sense of need for moral suitability as we approach the Lord’s supper, because is there not in that service a public manifestation as to what underlies the thought of the stone cut out without hands?

A.J.G. Yes, I thought we perhaps do not always sufficiently keep that side in view, we are rightly occupied with the memorial side which appeals to the affections and has in view more what is private between Christ and His own, but there is the side also that we announce the death of the Lord until He come.

J.S.E. I am very glad to hear you say so in a meeting of this kind, because it has been somewhat of a burden to oneself and one finds it necessary, when the young ones—they have been referred to this morning—place themselves at the disposal of the saints for consideration, whether that side should be a little more emphasised?

A.J.G. I think it is right that it should.

A.W.G.T. Is that the side of showing forth?

A.J.G. Yes, we announce His death until He come, that is to say we publicly take up the attitude that we are on the Lord’s side, and that He is coming to take up His rights here. Well, then, if we do that it involves that we ourselves are subject to His rights, and that people recognise us as those that are acknowledging the rights of the Lord publicly.

J.S.E. So that coming together in assembly does really involve this matter of the pulse and water?

A.J.G. It does really—what we feed upon, as giving character to us.

A.M. Has the public side a bearing on the service of God? Daniel says, “Blessed be the name of God”, that is not the private side is it?

A.J.G. I suppose it is not. You mean there is a certain element of testimony even in this prayer and thanksgiving of Daniel.

A.M.P. Do not the governmental ways of God serve to enrich the service of God? The three chapters in Romans that deal with the governmental side lead to a wonderful ascription of praise and glory to God?

A.J.G. Yes, and I think if we were a little more exercised about the public side and our faithfulness in it, it would help us in setting us together more in sympathy and make the privilege in connection with the secret side more real to us.

A.M.P. And does not our part in assembly service depend really on our right adjustment to what is required on the public side?

A.J.G. Yes, I think it does.

A.W.G.T. Was it not said recently that the moral side of the truth understood and entered into would help in bringing in feeling into the spiritual side of the service?

A.J.G. Yes, I think so.

____________________

← Previous 10 of 32 Next →