“IN CHRIST JESUS”
MEETINGS IN ILFORD
21st-23rd SEPTEMBER 1951
(FRIDAY TO LORD’S DAY)
Reading 1—Friday evening
2 Timothy 1: 1-18; 6: 1-13
A.J.G. I have been thinking that it might help us to be reminded that Christianity takes its character properly from “Christ Jesus”. The thought of “in Christ Jesus” is a prominent thought in this epistle and in others of Paul’s epistles. In Romans he treats matters basically and tells us that we are to reckon ourselves “alive to God in Christ Jesus”, and brings in “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” as the great power for deliverance. In Corinthians he views the saints as “sanctified in Christ Jesus”, and says, “of him are ye in Christ Jesus”, and that He is made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and holiness and redemption. In Ephesians the thought is prominent, that we are created in Christ Jesus, and spoken of as “the assembly in Christ Jesus” which is a very exalted thought. In Philippians too he speaks of the “calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”, and other thoughts. We get it also, to some extent, in Galatians. So I think we can see that the idea of “Christ Jesus” and of what is “in Christ Jesus” is of great importance. I thought the Lord might help us a little in pursuing some of these thoughts in these meetings beginning with this epistle, because in this epistle difficult days are contemplated in which we are, and the lines upon which, through a good deal of conflict and reproach, the truth at its true level is to be maintained. So he brings in early the thought of “life”, “the life which is in Christ Jesus”, saying, “Paul, apostle of Jesus Christ by God’s will, according to promise of life, the life which is in Christ Jesus”. Then later on in the chapter he tells us that we have been saved—“who has saved us, and has called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages of time, but has been made manifest now”. So I believe it will help us to get some idea of the thought bound up with “in Christ Jesus”, and I trust that the Lord may help us to see how it is to work out practically, especially in our knowing something of the power of “life in Christ Jesus”.
F.G.S. Is it particularly encouraging that this line of truth should come into this epistle in an outstanding way as peculiarly fitting the present days of the assembly’s sojourn here?
A.J.G. That is what I thought, therefore we may well start with this, because, while the thought of “in Christ Jesus” in itself lies outside of failure and breakdown, yet at the same time it seems to be very practical in that “life in Christ Jesus” is the power by which God’s original thoughts are maintained, notwithstanding the breakdown, and it becomes a testimony which no one can deny.
J.O.S. So in the end of the first epistle Paul says that Christ Jesus witnessed before Pontius Pilate a good confession.
A.J.G. Yes, the apostle seems to be full of the thought of “Christ Jesus” in writing his two letters to Timothy. In the first epistle he speaks of Christ Jesus as “our hope”, and “Christ Jesus our Lord”, and then he says, “that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”, and “the mediator of God and men one, the man Christ Jesus”. So as we think of these things there is a wonderful range of glory before us, because Christ Jesus is the Man who has been in God’s mind from before the ages of time, in whom His thoughts were to be established, and yet in grace He came into the world to save sinners, came in as the Mediator of God and men.
J.W.G. Does “the promise of life … in Christ Jesus” really refer to the way that God takes account of conditions in the last days?
A.J.G. I think it does. Promise is something that can be held to in dark days. God is always true to His promise. Is that what you had in mind?
J.W.G. Yes. I was thinking of the way that promise, so to speak, is put over against purpose.
G.R.C. Is the idea of promise something that is intended to assure the man of faith as meeting his need, whereas purpose relates to God’s own requirements in Himself, do you think?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so. So, however dark the day, the man of faith can always fall back on promise, because God will always be true to His promise.
G.R.C. It is a great comfort that God has promised “life” because we need that above everything.
A.J.G. We do, and then it is life of this distinctive character, “life in Christ Jesus”.
A.L.B. Would you help us as to what is distinctive in this thought as compared, for example, with the thoughts of “in Christ” or “in Christ Jesus”?
A.J.G. Well, “in Christ” is more, as I understand it, a kind of official expression, if one may use that term; that is, Christ is the Head as over against Adam as a head. By nature we are in Adam and through redemption and the gift of the Spirit we are set up in Christ, we come under a new Head. But “Christ Jesus”, as I understand it, refers to the fact that from before the ages of time it was in God’s mind that one of the Godhead should become Man, and that He should bring into Manhood an entirely new and heavenly and most exalted order of man, and His purpose is in Christ Jesus. “The life that is in Christ Jesus” is life of that heavenly order which is only known by us in the power of the Spirit in so far as we actually derive from Christ.
F.W.T. Would you say that the fact that we do not have this title in the gospels would involve that this blessèd Man has passed through death and risen again and ascended?
A.J.G. Yes, I think it refers to Christ in His present glorious position. He is the One in whom, in that position, is apprehended a purpose of God that was formed before the ages of time. I think it is important to lay hold of that because we all tend, naturally, to look at things from the standpoint of our own experience of what man is, and we do not get the heavenly standard of manhood that has been in God’s mind from the very outset.
M.L.J.M. Would something of the relationship that Paul speaks of in regard to Timothy help us in this, “my beloved child” and “my true child”?
A.J.G. You mean that Paul was himself an exemplification of the truth, and that Timothy was one who had been formed under his influence?
M.L.J.M. That is what I was thinking.
A.J.G. I think so. So that we get the Ephesians, for instance, spoken of as “faithful in Christ Jesus”; I do not know, speaking from memory, that we get any other company of saints referred to in that way.
E.J.F. Does the latter part of verse 9 have in mind what you are speaking about, “according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages of time”?
A.J.G. That is what is impressing one, that we should keep that before our minds, that we have now come, in Christianity, to what was in God’s purpose before the ages of time. Therefore, it is not something that has developed out of the first order of man at all, or even something that is brought in to remedy the state of things that came in through the failure of the first man; it is something entirely outside all that and before it. It is the glorious heavenly order of manhood that has been in God’s mind from the start that has now come in, and the more we think of one of the Godhead becoming Man the more impressed we must be with the sense that there is before God a heavenly order of manhood. We have to confess we know but little of it, but the more we know the reality of abiding in Christ by the Spirit the more we shall begin to take it on.
R.M.B. Is “Jesus Christ” the descending line, and “Christ Jesus” the ascending?
A.J.G. I am not quite sure whether that would be accurate, because it says, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”. You might say that was descending. It seems to me that “Jesus Christ” is the Lord viewed here as amongst men but as in contrast to man. He is the One whom God has marked out as the Christ, His approved, in contrast to all others; therefore He has raised Him from among the dead, a selective resurrection, leaving all the others, who were in their graves at that time, in death, and raising from among the dead Jesus. I think “Jesus Christ” looks at the Lord in that light, the One whom God chooses in contradistinction to all other men. But Christ Jesus is the One who has been in God’s purpose from the very outset, apart altogether from any question of the first man.
F.G.S. So what you are saying would be supported by verse 8 of the next chapter, would it? “Remember Jesus Christ raised from among the dead”.
A.J.G. Yes, and that is in connection with the idea of suffering. Jesus Christ was supremely faithful to God in the sphere of testimony and suffered accordingly, but He is raised from the dead, and He is to be remembered in that light. So we should be strengthened to continue in faithfulness, whatever it costs, but the measure or character of the standard of the testimony is to be Christ Jesus.
J.W.G. Is it that life in Christ Jesus is in an unassailable position, but by the operations of the Spirit it is to come into expression in the saints?
A.J.G. I think so, so that the preposition “in” usually, I think, conveys the idea of power, that is, that it is not simply an objective thought but that it has a certain subjective bearing.
A.A.B. Would there be any link between the thought of “in Christ Jesus” and the last Adam, a quickening spirit?
A.J.G. I think the expression “in Christ Jesus” conveys a certain allusion to the moral characteristics of the manhood or of the life. It is “in Christ Jesus”, it is not simply “in Christ”. You might say “in Christ” might link with the thought of the last Adam, but here it is “in Christ Jesus”, and so attention is directed to Jesus.
G.R.C. That is very helpful. The passage in verse 9 speaks of our calling, “called us with a holy calling … according to his own purpose and grace”. Is the thought of the calling something additional to life? Does it include more than “life in Christ Jesus”?
A.J.G. I think it must, because it must have in view the final condition, the eternal condition in glory. But “life in Christ Jesus”—while, of course, we shall have life in Christ Jesus eternally—seems to be brought in in connection with present conditions, the way we are to maintain the truth in present conditions.
G.R.C. So that promise is connected with life because that stands in contrast to death and present conditions, whereas the calling involves things which do not stand related to anything here—like sonship, and so on.
A.J.G. Quite so.
J.W.C. Is this something that has come in entirely apart from the first creation?
A.J.G. It is, and it helps to bear that in mind, because more than we realise we tend to have our thoughts formed by the kind of man and the kind of standards we are used to, whereas if we get the thought of what God shows He had in His mind before the ages of time, it entirely leaves all that out of account, and we begin to look at things according to that, that God has this calling, this purpose and grace given us in Christ Jesus before the ages of time.
E.L.C. Verse 10 would seem to suggest that our Saviour Jesus Christ becoming manifest to us brings all this to light, together with life and incorruptibility.
A.J.G. Yes, it is very interesting the way the two titles are brought together, “Christ Jesus” in connection with God’s purpose and grace, and then “our Saviour Jesus Christ” in connection with His coming in and annulling death, because He came into the conditions in which those who were the subjects of God’s purpose were involved, and in those conditions He glorified God, showing Himself to be the only Man who was approved of God, and who could deal with death and annul it, and bring life and incorruptibility to light.
E.J.F. Paul follows by saying that he is not ashamed; is it that he so understood what God has done that he exults in the greatness of this new order of man in Christ?
A.J.G. I think so. Then, of course, the exercise is that he should conduct himself in a way that is in keeping with it, that is, that the features of life in Christ Jesus should come into evidence, a heavenly order of life, and that is what is persecuted. So he says later on in this epistle, “all indeed who desire to live piously in Christ Jesus will be persecuted”, chap 3: 12. It is in the exercise to maintain the heavenly standard of things that we find opposition, opposition in our own flesh, like Ishmael persecuting Isaac, and opposition from the religious world.
E.J.F. Do you connect the standard at all with this outline of sound words, or how do you view that?
A.J.G. The outline of sound words, I suppose, would refer to the general scope of the teaching; but then it is to be held “in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus”.
J.W.C. Does the appeal in Colossians 3 help? “If therefore ye have been raised with the Christ, seek the things which are above, where the Christ is”, and then it speaks of our life being hid there.
A.J.G. Well, quite so; although it is a remarkable thing (I only noticed it this evening) that we get very little allusion to Christ Jesus in Colossians; I do not know that one can say off-hand why it is, but that is so. We get “bondman of Christ Jesus” mentioned as a description of Epaphras in the last chapter.
J.O.S. Is what you have in mind that the apostle’s anxiety was that there should be a spiritual correspondence between the saints and Christ Jesus, more than having the doctrine of it?
A.J.G. That is the whole matter, because having the doctrine of it will not save us, but “life in Christ Jesus” will.
J.O.S. Did Mr Stoney say, or write, that Mr Wigram had the substance of it and not so much the doctrine, but Mr Darby had both?1
A.J.G. I was not aware of that, but I can quite believe it.
H.W. So that 2 Timothy being written for the last days has in view that right to the end this kind of standard, to which you have referred, is to be maintained.
A.J.G. That is the whole point, it is a heavenly order of manhood. The assembly is the full expression of it; so that in Ephesians 3 it is spoken of as “the assembly in Christ Jesus”, a most glorious conception on the part of God and something that should lay hold of us as we realise that we have been called and taken up in relation to it. But the apostle does not speak of the assembly in 2 Timothy, as far as I remember, but it is the vital thing to be maintained in the power of life in Christ Jesus.
A.A.L. Was the apostle’s ministry peculiarly connected with that?
A.J.G. Yes, it was. That is why he suffered such persecution. Peter has a certain link with it in the last chapter of his first epistle where it says, “but the God of all grace who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ Jesus”. It is not often that Peter speaks on those lines, but he just brings in that touch which, in a sense, links on with Paul’s teaching.
G.R.C. If we might refer again to the thought of promise and purpose, Paul, in the beginning of Titus, speaks of eternal life which God promised before the ages of time; in this chapter we have His purpose given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages of time. Could you help as to the promise before the ages of time in relation to eternal life?
A.J.G. One has noticed that scripture in Titus. It seems to me that there is in that way a definite link between the thought of purpose and of promise; but I think what has been said is right, that promise has reference to certain adverse conditions. God knew beforehand that they would come in; He has made use of them for the working out of His thoughts. So that promise, I think, has reference to certain adverse conditions even though it was promised before the ages of time; but purpose is the pure thought of what God’s love devises for its own satisfaction apart from any question at all of adverse conditions.
G.R.C. It seems to me to give a very elevated view of purpose, God thinking from Himself and for Himself; it shows how elevated is this thought of “in Christ Jesus”.
A.J.G. Yes, quite so. I think the coming in of sin, and all that has resulted from it, has been a necessary item in God’s ways from two standpoints, at any rate. On the one hand it has served to bring out a glory of God Himself which would not have been known without it, and on the other hand it serves for the formative work in the saints, because if the saints are to be sons, and if the assembly is to be the help-mate of Christ, they must be formed in holiness, having love for good and hatred of evil. Now that was not possible, I think one may say soberly, without their being involved in it and then being extricated from it by the way that God has taken through the gospel; or, at any rate, He has used that to develop us in these moral features of holiness and righteousness.
A.J.E.W. Is it of interest then that the thought of grace is added to purpose in verse 9, as if the matter is not just conceived in God’s mind but grace is given to work it out according to the standard?
A.J.G. Quite so, and then in any case it is wonderful grace that the creature should be given part in such things. I think we have to bear that in mind also, that grace is not only a question of meeting us in a sinful condition, but even apart from that, that the creature should be given a place in such exalted things, is itself grace.
G.R.C. The expression “holy calling” would stress what you have been saying, would it not?
A.J.G. Yes, it would, although I think that is especially to emphasise that the standard is to be of that character and maintained as such in the presence of evil.
M.L.J.M. Would you say a word as to verse 10 in that connection, after it refers to “before the ages of time … has been made manifest now by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ”, and so on? Would you say a word as to the bearing of that on the present moment?
A.J.G. I think it is so that we should now have the light of God’s purpose in our souls. It was there before the ages of time, but it was not known until the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ and His having annulled death and brought life and incorruptibility to light. The purpose of God was only made known when the Spirit came and when Paul was taken up.
J.W.C. So the way that God has led us gives us a greater occasion to praise Him and to worship Him. I was thinking of the way that God has brought in the platform of time to work out this great truth, and yet it was with Him before ever time came in.
A.J.G. Quite so, and we are just nearing the point when everything will be complete. That is something, I feel, we should keep in mind. There are these great thoughts before the ages of time, and the ages have rolled on and we are just about at the end.
F.W.B. Is that why it refers in chapter 4 to the fact of the end, “I testify before God and Christ Jesus, who is about to judge living and dead”? Does that confirm what you said just now?
A.J.G. Yes, He “is about to judge living and dead”.
A.L.B. It is a remarkable expression in verse 9 where it says, “which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages of time”—before we had any existence.
A.J.G. We were foreknown, we know that from Romans 8, that is, there were persons in God’s mind in relation to whom He had formed a purpose. So it says, “whom he has foreknown, he has also predestinated”. The idea of predestination brings in what the purpose is.
A.L.B. So that we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
A.J.G. Yes.
E.C.L. What would be the bearing of the glad tidings in this verse? “brought to light life and incorruptibility by the glad tidings.”
A.J.G. It is very remarkable the way Paul links the glad tidings with the purpose of God; he does not make the two things distinct at all, but the purpose of God comes first and then the glad tidings are the testimony which God has rendered in His due time to men, that a Saviour has appeared so that those who were the subjects of His purpose might be brought into it.
E.C.L. Would it become the subject for the preaching of the word of God, or is it something which we treasure in our souls? Paul says of himself that he has been appointed a herald and so on.
A.J.G. Yes. I suppose the glad tidings as Paul speaks of it is a wide thought. I do not know that you would speak of the purpose of God to unconverted persons, would you?
E.C.L. That is what I was wondering.
A.J.G. You would present Christ to them as an object of faith, but then, when they have believed you can go on and unfold the glad tidings to them, as Paul did in the epistle to the Romans, which is an unfolding to believers of the glad tidings.
E.J.F. Would you say a word please, as to the annulling of death in that verse, “who has annulled death”?
A.J.G. Well, that is by His rising, is it not? He has not yet abolished death (the King James’ Version says “abolished”), He will do so, but He has annulled it. That is, He has overcome it and overthrown its power in that He Himself is risen and has the right and power to take out of death all who belong to Him. So that the sting of death is removed, and for faith the power of it is broken.
E.J.F. Have we to have some understanding of that before we can enter into the life of which you speak?
A.J.G. Yes. The fear of death is removed. “The life which is in Christ Jesus” certainly could show itself in superiority over death.
G.R.C. It may be that the fact that the tree of life was in the midst of the garden would be an evidence that God had promised life before the ages of time. Does not the epistle to the Romans show how that the obstacles have been met by Jesus Christ, so that the life which was always in God’s thought for man should reach man?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so.
J.W.C. I was going to ask if that is the principle that we learn in the first creation, the principle of death?
A.J.G. Yes, life out of death; is that what you mean?
J.W.C. Well, I was thinking of the way that death is on the first creation, the first order. I wondered whether that magnified the great thoughts of God in regard to life in Christ Jesus.
A.J.G. I think so.
F.G.S. In view of this promise and the purposes of God, is it essential that we should have this “outline of sound words”, which Paul had presented in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus?
A.J.G. It is. Then the next verse is so important, “Keep, by the Holy Spirit which dwells in us, the good deposit entrusted”. At the end of the first epistle he says, in the last verse but one, “O Timotheus, keep the entrusted deposit”; but now in this second epistle he again says, “Keep … the good deposit entrusted”, but he adds “by the Holy Spirit”, bringing in the importance of the Spirit where there is general departure from the truth. I believe that is one reason why the Lord has now, in the last few years, stressed the Spirit, and our becoming personally acquainted with the Spirit, because it is a question of reaching a perfect answer to divine thoughts, and that can only be by the Holy Spirit.
F.G.S. This would stand related to these sound words, would it not? I was thinking of what Paul says, as he speaks to the elders at Ephesus, “for I have not shrunk from announcing to you all the counsel of God”. Would these “sound words” involve all that?
A.J.G. I think so, but it is to be kept by the Holy Spirit.
J.W.G. Would that show the necessity for cultivating the conditions which His presence requires, so that we are exercised as to holiness and are maintained in sensitiveness and dependence, so that we do not pretend to know everything but we are exercised to be dependent and ready to listen and receive fresh impressions.
F.W.B. Is that why Paul adds the words “which dwells in us”? Is that calculated to exercise us as to whether we really give the Holy Spirit His place.
A.J.G. I am sure it is—He dwells in us! It is a most sobering and at the same time a most liberating and encouraging thought.
G.P.T. Would you say what the “good deposit” is?
A.J.G. It is the truth, as I understand it, that Paul committed to Timothy. He says, just before that, “I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep for that day the deposit I have entrusted to Him”. That is a remarkable thing; it seems to me that it means that the apostle, seeing that all in Asia had turned away from him and that the truth generally was being given up, handed it back, so to speak, to the Lord for Him to keep safely; and I think we may say that we are now coming into the gain of that, that the Lord is answering Paul’s faith now and is bringing us back, in the last days, to the full thought of the assembly according to its heavenly character. But then it was not only that Paul entrusted it to the Lord, but he charges Timothy to keep it. The mere fact that it is entrusted to the Lord does not relieve us of our responsibility.
A.M.B. Would you say how we are to be strong in the grace which is in Christ Jesus?
A.J.G. By abiding in Him, I think; I do not know of any other way.
F.C.M. Would it be right to say that the “outline of sound words” is an outer defence and what follows, the keeping by the Holy Spirit, an inner defence and protection?
A.J.G. I think that would be right.
J.O.S. Would the fact that it says, “which dwells in us” really show that the Spirit has scope to take full charge of our hearts and minds?
A.J.G. Yes, it would; and one is reminded of the remarkable expression in 1 John 5, “the Spirit is the truth”, and that is a great safeguard, that if only we can learn to keep ourselves under the control of the Spirit, we shall be preserved in the truth: “the Spirit is the truth”. We may rest assured that whatever we are led into in the Spirit is truth; the Spirit will never lead us into anything that is extreme or inaccurate or anything of that sort, and hence the great need of cultivating the Spirit.
J.O.S. So that in James even our desires are really of the Spirit. “Does the Spirit which has taken his abode in us desire enviously? But he gives more grace”. Does that show that inwardly the saints are controlled and helped by the Spirit?
A.J.G. Quite so. It is the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. It is the idea there, I think, of power and energy, that is, that Christ Jesus gives energy and character to the life, and that, of course, is by the Spirit.
E.C.L. Does the Holy Spirit, in that way, give what is life amongst the saints? The “outline of sound words” by themselves would not necessarily be living in character, would it, although a very necessary feature?
A.J.G. No I think that is right, that the Spirit Himself brings in life and freshness.
F.N.W. Could you link on with the “good deposit” what has been “begotten of God” in John’s epistle?
A.J.G. As far as I understand, the “entrusted deposit” is the system of truth, as he says in the next chapter (v 2), “the things thou hast heard of me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men, such as shall be competent to instruct others also”. That is, there was a certain system of truth in regard to the assembly given to Paul; indeed, he had three ministries given to him, and he had passed these things on to Timothy, entrusting them to him, and he in his turn was to entrust them to others. I think the idea of what is entrusted connects with the thought of the truth.
G.R.C. Have you a somewhat parallel expression in chapter 4: 7 where he says, “I have kept the faith”, telling us what he had kept?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so, and as you read the epistle you can see that it is only kept at the cost of much suffering and much reproach, that the enemy working through men, and often through believers even, is opposed to what is heavenly in character.
G.R.C. Would what Paul speaks of as the faith, “I have kept the faith”, the Christian faith, be a similar thought to what you have spoken of as the system of truth?
A.J.G. I think so, but he kept it, not simply in terms but in life.
G.R.C. Like the Levites who carried things through intact, the whole tabernacle system was carried through.
A.J.G. Yes.
J.O.S. Is that the thought in 2 John? John says, “also all who have known the truth, for the truth’s sake, which abides in us and shall be with us to eternity”. Is that the force of this deposit, do you think, what was carried right through?
A.J.G. Well, it is a similar thought, the truth in John and the testimony or the faith in Paul. But I think the “entrusted deposit” is connected more with a definite system of doctrine because that is what was entrusted to Paul, the truth as to the mystery; whereas the truth in John’s writings is not so much a system of teaching as the truth as to God, the nature and moral attributes of God maintained in those who are begotten of God.
M.C. Is that why the deposit is spoken of as “good”, that we are learning to appreciate it more and value it and understand it by the Spirit?
A.J.G. I think so; and he says, “I have combated the good combat”, that is, he is not saying that he has fought well, that he has fought a good fight, but it is the good combat he had combated. So that we are not to be afraid of seeking to maintain the truth. Whatever exercise or suffering it entails, it is “the good combat”. It is the thing to which Satan is deadly opposed, but which the Lord would support right through to the end.
G.R.C. As to it being carried through in life, does not the fact that “our Saviour Jesus Christ has annulled death” really imply the truth of Jordan? So that this can only be carried through as we know something of having crossed the Jordan in our spirits, in the power of the Holy Spirit?
A.J.G. Yes, I think so.
G.R.C. We have laid hold in our own spirits of the purpose of God.
A.J.G. Yes, and that means that even if fidelity to the testimony involves martyrdom you are prepared for it because you have your life beyond death.
G.R.C. At Jordan there was no water in sight, was there? Death was annulled typically.
M.L.J.M. Would you say that his reference to Onesiphorus would indicate how the good deposit entrusted may be used? He refers to his service to those in Ephesus at the end of verse 18.
A.J.G. I do not know that we can say how far that was connected with the good deposit. We do not know what the nature of the service of Onesiphorus was. What have you in mind?
M.L.J.M. I was wondering whether he was drawing attention to this one as seeking him out to show how far he was prepared to go in the service.
A.J.G. Well, quite so, “how much service he rendered in Ephesus thou knowest best”. I am inclined to think he is referring, not so much to his service to the saints in ministry, or anything of that sort, but rather a personal service which Onesiphorus rendered to Paul at Ephesus.
M.L.J.M. That is what I had in mind, and I wondered whether the governing feature was the deposit in him.
A.J.G. Well, no doubt it would be.
E.C.L. I was wondering whether you would connect the system of teaching with Ephesus where Paul taught in the school of Tyrannus about two years.
A.J.G. Yes, exactly. Paul started with a light out of heaven above the brightness of the sun, and that gave colour to his ministry all the way through. I am sure, if one may speak for others, we have very little sense in our souls of what is heavenly.
E.C.L. The reference to Ephesus might refer our minds back to the kind of teaching which came from that place, as under the Lord’s hand, do you think? And the conduct in Timothy would be regulated by it.
A.J.G. Quite.
E.I. Would you say that Onesiphorus’ enjoyment of life in Christ Jesus came out in expression in his service?
A.J.G. Quite so, because he must have gone to considerable sacrifice and labour to find out Paul and refresh him; he says he sought him out very diligently and found him.
F.W.B. Was not Paul going out in the conflict in the full light of what was heavenly in character? He refers, in the last chapter, to being preserved for his heavenly kingdom.
A.J.G. Yes, he was, and all the opposition he had encountered all through his ministry was because he maintained the heavenly calling at its true character. He may have deflected from it a little at one time when he went up to Jerusalem finally, but if he did he was recovered to it. That is seen before Agrippa, how he stands out in the dignity and power of a heavenly man.
F.W.B. Would then Timothy not take great comfort and encouragement by seeing things exemplified in Paul in this way?
A.J.G. Exactly.
E.J.F. If we turn away from Paul’s teaching we lose the deposit, do we, according to the contrast which follows in the next verse—certain, he says, “have turned away from me”.
A.J.G. Quite so; and we get another important thing too in the first epistle, that if we do not maintain a good conscience we shall make shipwreck as to faith. That is a matter we have always to bear in mind, and the more we profess to lay hold of heavenly truth the more important it is to be exercised as to a good conscience and practical righteousness.
J.W.C. Otherwise we lose the support of the Spirit, do we?
A.J.G. We do, exactly.
J.O.S. Can we enjoy life in Christ Jesus where He is apart from leaving the earthly side where man after the flesh lives, and the system of things in which he lives?
A.J.G. Leaving it, you mean, in our thoughts and affections?
J.O.S. Yes. I thought what you said earlier as to this working out practically with us, can it work out practically unless we are prepared to leave the scene where man lives? Our brother has referred to what is over Jordan; the Israelites actually left the wilderness side, did they not?
A.J.G. They did, and, of course, the difficulty with us is that in Christianity the two things go on concurrently, the wilderness according to God and the land; and that is where a certain difficulty comes in with us. It is presented in type separately, so that we may lay hold of the thoughts connected with the two positions. So it says in Romans, that “the wages of sin is death; but the act of favour of God, eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”, and that is enjoyed in the Spirit and really takes you, as we were saying, beyond Jordan. But then, at the same time the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus renders us equal to filling out our wilderness position according to God.
J.O.S. While Joshua and Caleb passed through the wilderness, they did not live in it as to their affections.
A.J.G. No, that was the position.
F.G.S. So in view of the wilderness path and all its suffering, does Paul draw attention to this great store of grace which is in Christ Jesus to strengthen and stimulate us?
A.J.G. I think so, and that, however much opposition Timothy might encounter, he was to go on “strong in the grace which is in Christ Jesus”.
A.J.E.W. Is it not striking then that there are so many suggestions in the chapter which involve labour? One was thinking of the good soldier and the husbandman and the workman that is not to be ashamed, and the bondman of the Lord at the end, as if the side of labour is brought before us.
A.J.G. Yes, exactly, and the side of being definite with just one thing before us. So that a good soldier does not entangle himself with the affairs of life, and anyone contending in the games has simply one thing before him and that is to get the crown, only he understands that he will be disqualified if he does not contend lawfully; so he is careful to carry on the games, the contest, whatever it may be, according to the rules.
J.W.C. How would that apply spiritually?
A.J.G. It applies, for instance, in what we get at the end of chapter 2, “a bondman of the Lord ought not to contend, but be gentle towards all”, and so on. In conflict you have to be watchful to preserve your own spirit, otherwise you may become disqualified.
F.G.S. Would he be governed by the truth?
A.J.G. Quite so, he is governed by the truth and faithfulness to the truth. “The Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” would involve all that because Christ Jesus witnessed before Pontius Pilate a good confession. He was faithful to the truth.
A.A.B. Would the possession of those great things in our souls free us from any sense of shame? Three times the apostle speaks of not being ashamed in this first epistle, “be not ashamed of the testimony of our Lord”, “I am not ashamed”, and as to Onesiphorus, that he was not ashamed of his chain.
A.J.G. Yes, I am sure it would. The great difficulty with us is to be kept in the sense that we are heavenly. It would help us greatly if we could be kept in the sense that we are heavenly.
A.A.L. Is that why verse 7 comes in, “Think of what I say”?
A.J.G. I think “Think of what I say” refers to what has immediately preceded, that is, the need for being definite and single-eyed, exercised as to carrying things on lawfully and being prepared to labour before partaking of the fruits, as well as the truth of the heavenly and holy calling.
F.W.T-n. Would chapter 1: 7 stand out over against the thought of shame, “God has not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power, and of love, and of wise discretion”?
A.J.G. I am sure it would. So the apostle reminds Timothy in the first epistle, “I enjoin thee before God who preserves all things in life, and Christ Jesus who witnessed before Pontius Pilate the good confession, that thou keep the commandment spotless, irreproachable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ”, chap 6: 13-14. It is remarkable what terms the apostle uses to emphasise the true standard to be maintained—spotless, irreproachable—and how he reminds us of the faithfulness of Christ Jesus before Pontius Pilate. There was no weakness with Christ, no being ashamed with Christ. He witnessed a good confession, whatever it entailed in the way of suffering.
A.A.N. Would the acceptance of circumcision, in that way, set us entirely free so that we have the sense of the reproach of Egypt being rolled away?
A.J.G. Quite. So Paul says to the Philippians, “For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh”, chap 3: 3.
J.B.W. Would you say something as to the “salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory”, v 10.
A.J.G. Well, he was concerned that the elect should obtain it, that is that they should really come to God’s thoughts for them. I take it he is referring to salvation in a present aspect, as well as the full thought of what is future, with eternal glory.
H.W. The apostle was so intent that they should reach it that he was prepared to endure all things on that account. Does it give us a very elevated idea as to the objective which Paul had in view, and what he was prepared to suffer in order that the saints might reach it?
A.J.G. I thought so. Think of Philippians 1, for instance, and what he tells us there, how he was in prison, and he was getting aged by that time, and how there were certain brethren preaching Christ of contention, to add tribulation to his bonds. Satan was doing all he could to overcome the spirit of Paul, and what a triumph it would have been if he had done it! If just at the last Paul had broken down and had been found murmuring and complaining and despondent, what a triumph it would have been! After all the example that Paul had been of heavenly truth, if only Satan could have overcome him at the last, what a triumph it would have been! That is the point in Philippians 1, that he desired the prayers of the brethren and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ so that he should not be overcome at the last.
H.W. Does this give us, so to speak, a side which we do not often take account of, and that is the travail of those who serve?
A.J.G. It was so in Paul’s case; it was a real exercise. But then he says he counts on their prayers and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ that in all things Christ might be magnified in his body, whether by life or by death. That was what he was aiming at, and I have no doubt the Lord saw to it that he was carried through in triumph.
E.C.L. Would the reference to the Seed of David infer how we are to wait in the Spirit of Christ for God to bring things to pass, not to use our own efforts, as Saul did, and consequently failed; he saw nothing through to conclusion, did he?
A.J.G. No, he did not. I suppose, “of the seed of David”, carries with it too that He is the One who is going to reign. He is the One who has suffered, but He is the One who has the kingdom. After all, the thought of the kingdom is a very great thought in the sense of reward to those who are suffering. If we suffer we shall reign.
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