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Reading 3—Saturday Afternoon

A.J.G. For the sake of those who have not been present at the previous meetings it might be said that we are endeavouring to get a little help together as to the thought of “in Christ Jesus”, as that which gives its distinctive character to Christianity, involving that which is most exalted morally, taking character from the second Man, the One out of heaven. It is clear from this scripture and others that we have had that God’s purpose was given us in Christ Jesus. We read in this chapter 3, “according to the purpose of the ages, which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord”. So that from the outset God, as having man in mind—for wisdom’s delights were with the sons of men—had conceived this immense thought that one of the Godhead should become Man and that as a result, through redemption and the gift of the Spirit, those who are men of that order of creature, while never ceasing to be creatures, should be brought into this wonderful order and position of manhood before God. Nothing can exceed the greatness of it; it is the acme of divine wisdom and grace, and one feels that we need to become more impressed with it, and then that it should not be just a matter of an attractive thought objectively but that it is to work out in what is practical. We have already been impressed with that, and we get it again in these scriptures; for instance, in chapter 2 it says that we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has before prepared that we should walk in them”, showing that the greatest truths have in mind what is practical in correspondence with them. The epistle to the Ephesians begins with setting out the purpose of God in regard of the saints personally. When I say ‘personally’ I mean that it does not immediately introduce the thought of the assembly; in fact, although the assembly is brought in just at the end of chapter 1 there is no great enlargement of the truth of the assembly until we come to chapters 3, 4 and 5, the first thought being, apparently, God’s purpose in regard of the saints personally, choosing us in Christ before the foundation of the world and marking us out for adoption by Jesus Christ to Himself. While chapter 1 deals with things from the standpoint of God’s own counsel, entirely emanating from Himself, chapter 2 deals with things from the standpoint of how He shows His glory in conditions, you might say, that are adverse; that is, in chapter 2 we are seen as dead, morally dead in trespasses and sins, and God operating in those conditions because of the riches of His mercy and the greatness of His love and the exceeding riches of His grace. It is in that connection that so much is brought in as to “in Christ Jesus”: “has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, that he might display … the surpassing riches of his grace … in Christ Jesus”, and “created in Christ Jesus”, and then that “now in Christ Jesus” we are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

J.O.S. Is there some reason why the apostle adds, in verse 1 of chapter 1, “to the saints and faithful in Christ Jesus”?

A.J.G. This is the only epistle in which the saints are addressed in that way, “saints and faithful in Christ Jesus”. In Philippi they are addressed as “the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi”, but in the Ephesian epistle he says, “saints and faithful in Christ Jesus who are in Ephesus”. So I suppose it conveys that at the time the apostle wrote, the saints at Ephesus, speaking generally, were in keeping with the truth as to what is in Christ Jesus. That they were not so subsequently, of course, is clear, because 2 Timothy says, “all who are in Asia”, which includes Ephesus, “have turned away from me”, and the Lord in Revelation 2, addressing the assembly at Ephesus, says, “Remember therefore whence thou art fallen”.

J.O.S. You get a similar touch in Colossians, “to the holy and faithful brethren in Christ”. I was just wondering whether there needs to be something on our side to enable us to apprehend the greatness of what is presented.

A.J.G. I think that is right. He says in Colosse, “the holy and faithful brethren in Christ”; they were brethren in Christ and they were holy and faithful brethren. But here he says, “faithful in Christ Jesus”. I think it helps to see that while chapter 1 opens up, as we were saying, God’s own counsels which have their rise in His own heart and are not in any sense dictated by conditions of need or distance or anything of that sort, when it comes to chapter 2 God is presented as operating, you might say, in conditions which were to the greatest disadvantage—“we too being dead in offences”—operating in conditions which were contrary and adverse, and displaying the exceeding riches of His grace in doing so. Hence it does not simply say that He has raised us up together and made us sit down together in the heavenlies, but “made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”. You could not get a position of greater dignity and elevation than that.

E.L.C. Is the thought of the reference to God being rich in mercy, God who is able to go through with His plans in spite of the conditions in which we are found?

A.J.G. That is so, and we get that in Romans 3 where “the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” is brought in early; and then immediately it says, “whom God has set forth a mercy-seat”. So that the same One in whom His counsels are established is the One who effects redemption; so that redemption is in Him, and from that standpoint God, on the principle of mercy, can give effect to His counsels in those who are the subjects of them.

G.R.C. So according to chapter 1, “in the Beloved: in whom we have redemption through his blood”. You were referring to the mercy-seat, and we are in the centre of the system in those verses at the beginning of chapter 1, are we not? And we are reminded that the blood is there, in connection with the title “Beloved”, as the foundation upon which God moves in mercy.

A.J.G. Quite so, giving us a certain depth of feeling, that if we are conscious that we have been marked out for sonship by Christ Jesus to Himself, and that we are taken into favour in the Beloved, we are reminded that there is the additional thought that in Him we have redemption and that through His blood, the blood of the Beloved, the forgiveness of offences. So that there is a certain ability to hold the two lines together, the line of purpose and the line, you might say, of recovery, both held in the soul together so that there is balance and depth with us.

A.J.E.W. Why is the thought of display brought in in verse 7 in connection with the matters of which you are speaking?

A.J.G. We are taken up, are we not, both for the pleasure of God on the one hand, and for the glory of God on the other? That is, God is operating from Himself and for Himself, and He wants to display in the ages to come the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness towards us. He does not display the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness in the Old Testament saints; He takes up those of this dispensation, because they get the best place in the sovereignty of God’s will, and He displays in us the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus.

G.R.C. Would you say that that display is not limited to the world to come, because it speaks of ages, “in the coming ages”?

A.J.G. Yes, I think that is right.

G.R.C. So it is an eternal display.

A.J.G. So that those of the assembly are taken up for this purpose, and then the assembly becomes a vessel in which the response to God is given a lead, you might say, at the end of chapter 3: “to him” (that is to God) “be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages”.

F.E.S. Does verse 4, at which you began, give us the great elevated source of all this in the love of God? “God … because of his great love wherewith he loved us”. Would that give us the great elevated thought of having its roots and beginnings in the heart of God?

A.J.G. I am sure it does. I believe it helps to get God before us more, to think less of ourselves and more of God, because Ephesians particularly has the display of God in mind; and in a sense we might say that Romans has too, though more connected with the line of how He has intervened in the state in which man is found, while Ephesians connects more with the thought of His eternal counsels; but in either case it is a question of God standing out before our minds and hearts.

M.L.J.M. So that he says, “not of yourselves”, and then refers to us as His workmanship.

A.J.G. Yes, we are His workmanship, so that it is entirely of God, and yet it is ourselves—that is the remarkable thing—that it is ourselves, the very same persons, and yet it is entirely of God. So that there is no room left for anyone to boast, save to boast in God.

F.W.B. Does chapter 2 show the way in which recovery has been fully completed inasmuch as the chapter begins with reference to the state of the Gentiles as being “dead in your offences and sins”, and ends with a habitation of God in Spirit?

A.J.G. Yes, that is very striking.

F.W.B. I mean what had transpired in the meantime is contained in the chapter itself, is it not?

A.J.G. Yes. You mean it begins with that condition of being dead in offences and sins, and then brings in what God has done; then it finishes with this thought of our being built together “for a habitation of God in the Spirit”, God Himself finding His dwelling place.

F.W.B. Is it not so much that we may be glorified but God is glorified Himself in what He has accomplished in His purpose and His love?

A.J.G. Yes, I think so.

G.R.C. So that in the beginning of the chapter it says He made us sit down together, and at the end of the chapter we are built together down here. Would you say a word as to “the heavenlies”—“has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”, although, of course, the saints are here at present, but is “the heavenlies” the proper sphere?

A.J.G. I think that would be right, as far as I understand it. The Spirit of God in this epistle is viewing things as already done, because Christ is already in His position as Man; therefore all the rest can be viewed as already accomplished, and actually we may touch this in the power of the Earnest, that is, as together in assembly, if there is power for it, we can touch what it is to be made to sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus.

A.M.B. Is there a link between chapter 1: 3 and chapter 2: 6, with regard to what God has done in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus?

A.J.G. I think so. He has “blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ”, chapter 1 says; that is in the heavenlies in contrast with an earthly blessing. So “raised us up together and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus” is wonderful elevation, in a moral and spiritual sense. Then the word “together” is to be noted too, “raised us up together” and “made us sit down together”, so that conditions of love are brought in, the saints marked by love amongst themselves and characterised by the features of Christ and in restfulness in the presence of God.

R.M.B. Would verse 10 be the answer to that down here?

A.J.G. I think that is so, that we are “created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has before prepared that we should walk in them”. We, perhaps, do not realise the preparation that has gone on beforehand. I suppose it took form, perhaps, in the life of Jesus down here, the things which Jesus began both to do and to teach, it says, the doings of Jesus preceding the teaching. God was setting out the good works in which He took pleasure; and now we are created in Christ Jesus in view of them, to walk in them.

F.E.S. Would you mind saying a word as to “has quickened us with the Christ”? It seems to be the beginning of these ascending stages of privilege and God’s thoughts in His purpose of blessing.

A.J.G. It is a divine operation to quicken, or to make to live. Man cannot do it. But I take it it refers to what He effects in our affections, is it not? Our affections have been quickened towards Christ. Is that how you understand it?

F.E.S. I was enquiring as to “has quickened us with the Christ”. What a beginning it seems to suggest in His great operations of love! We are brought into this wonderful system of life and affections which are centred in Christ.

A.J.G. Exactly, because the epistle is written, and indeed, all ministry of the Spirit through Paul, by means of which we have been secured, has all proceeded from the stand-point of Christ being in the presence of God as Man, redemption having been accomplished. Christ is already as Man in the position that has been in God’s purpose concerning Him, and now God operates in us, quickening us with the Christ. As far as I understand it, that simply means that we are made to live in our affections in relation to Christ. We understand that our portion is bound up with Him.

S.R. “Raised us up together”—is that elevation?

A.J.G. It is, “raised us up together”. The point is “together”, as well as the thought of elevation; and then, not only raised us up together but made us sit down together, which is the idea of wonderful restfulness and dignity in the position.

G.R.C. No one was allowed to sit down in the tabernacle or the temple of old. It shows the superiority of Christianity, that in the highest elevation we are made to sit down, just as at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit Himself came in and filled the house where they were sitting.

A.J.G. Yes, it does, I am sure. It gives one an impression of how great the thoughts of God are, that we should be entirely suited to His presence, so that we can sit down there in restfulness, and yet we are just creatures, but creatures having part in this exalted order of manhood in Christ Jesus.

J.J.McC. Would you help as to why “together” comes in here, and in the end of the chapter, “built together”, before we have the thought of the assembly, as you mentioned at the outset?

A.J.G. I think “together” is such an essential feature in the thoughts of God, because we cannot get the assembly unless we are together, and that involves relations of love amongst ourselves, thoroughly together. So that was one of the first things which came to pass after the descent of the Spirit, that the saints were together, they were one. Before Paul’s ministry came in the thing was there in its essence as the result of the power of the Spirit.

E.C.L. It is striking, when the people came out of Egypt, how quickly God suggests the making of the tabernacle system. It was really the one thing that they were to have before them, not themselves personally, but one thing, the idea of God having a habitation.

A.J.G. Exactly, and the thought of being one, although composed of many constituents, was prominent. So that the tabernacle was to be constructed of curtains of blue and purple and scarlet and fine twined linen, two sets of five curtains, each set of five coupled together, and then the two couplings held together with clasps of gold in loops of blue; and it says, “that the tabernacle may be one”. The idea of being together, constituting one entity as together, was there at the outset. Then over that there were eleven curtains of goats’ hair and they were coupled together, six in one coupling and five in the other, the two couplings held together with clasps of copper; and then again, it says, “that it may be one”.

J.J.McC. In the practical working out of this, is it necessary to notice what we have in verses 11 to 18? I was thinking of making in himself one new man, “one” is stressed there. There it is between Jews and Gentiles, but in its practical application does it apply to all of us?

A.J.G. I am sure it does, and that is an important matter because it is one thing for us to see that the divine thought is that we are to be together, and to be one, but then, that is to work out practically; and the question in every locality is, is it so? Are we, in fact, one and truly together? This second part, from verse 11 down to verse 18, shows how it may come to pass, and must come to pass practically.

J.O.S. Would not a sense of mercy really work in us subjectively, so that there would be no hindrance to the Spirit’s operations to produce this oneness?

A.J.G. It should do so, but we know only too well that sometimes there is disunity among the saints, and if that is so the pleasure of God is largely interfered with, the service of God is greatly hampered, and the testimony to God’s name is dishonoured. There is hardly anything more serious than disunity among the saints.

F.W.B. Does verse 16 of chapter 4 add emphasis to this matter of oneness, for Paul speaks of the whole body, “from whom the whole body, fitted together, and connected by every joint of supply … works for itself the increase of the body in its self-building up in love”? Would that bring before us the great goal?

A.J.G. It does, and just before that we have “holding the truth in love”, that is how it is to be held, “that we may grow up to him in all things, who is the head”, and then what you quote.

E.C.L. With reference to verse 10, “we are his workmanship”, if we have that outlook upon the saints, would it not result in our having respect for one another, and love for one another because of that? That could not be said of anyone in the world, could it?

A.J.G. No, it could not.

E.C.L. It is a wonderful thing that “we are his workmanship”—it must be something very wonderful—“having been created in Christ Jesus for good works”.

A.J.G. Is not that what is involved in the clasps of gold fitting into loops of blue, that love in the saints (the clasps of gold) would link on with what the saints are as divine workmanship as heavenly?

F.G.S. Then as that was seen in Exodus completed under the hand of Moses, the glory filled it. Is that somewhat similar to what we see at Pentecost? They were there as one and providing a sphere in which the Holy Spirit can come and operate.

A.J.G. Yes, indeed.

G.R.C. So does this not give us some indication of what the good works are, for which we have been created? Are they not indicated in what follows in the chapter, that we are reconciled to God in one body, and that we belong to the household of God and the temple and the habitation? Is it not a question of walking practically in those truths? Would not that be part of the good works?

A.J.G. Yes, I suppose so. But I think what it says in the beginning of the Acts is very striking; Luke says that he had written the former treatise to Theophilus, “concerning all things which Jesus began both to do and to teach”. He began to do the things, and it is striking that that is the beginning of the Acts, and the last verse of the previous book (John’s gospel) says that if all the things “which Jesus did, the which if they were written one by one” (it is striking how the Spirit of God speaks in that way), “I suppose that not even the world itself would contain the books written”. But the things which Jesus did were of such value in the sight of God that they are worthy to be taken account of one by one. But then the assembly is being formed as the vessel in which those things will be expressed because, clearly, as we are held under the influence of Christ, we will do what He did. It says, “He that says he abides in him ought, even as he walked, himself also so to walk”, 1 John 2: 6. So that is what the assembly is formed for, as a great vessel in which the things that Jesus did can be expanded for the pleasure of God.

M.L.J.M. So that in writing to the saints at Corinth he speaks of the heavenly One and the heavenly ones, after speaking of the Lord as the last Adam, a quickening Spirit.

A.J.G. Quite so.

F.W.B. Chapter 5 opens with a confirmation of what you are saying as to what is for the pleasure of God; it speaks of our being “imitators of God, as beloved children, and walk in love, even as the Christ loved us”; and then it speaks of “an offering and sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour”. Is that not the practical effect of all these things in the saints?

A.J.G. I think so. The love of Christ, when He gave Himself for us, ascended to God as a sweet-smelling savour. It was the great setting out of love, and God is love; and now the saints are to be formed by it. It is the idea, I believe, of the ram, in a sense, what has often been said, a progenitive idea. The more we take account of Christ giving Himself for us the more it becomes formative in us and we become formed in love.

F.C.M. Could we bring in here Paul’s account of his own service at Ephesus in Acts 20, speaking of “thus labouring” and “these hands”?

A.J.G. Well, there you have some of the detail of it, I am sure.

A.A.B. Would it be right to say that the thought of “created in Christ Jesus” is one of the greatest touches we have in connection with our subject? I was thinking of it in contrast to what was said to Adam, “Dust thou art; and unto dust shalt thou return”, Gen 3: 19.

A.J.G. It is, it is a wonderful thought, and that is what we are. The work of God is of that character, “created in Christ Jesus”. He does not work anything else but what is of Christ Jesus, and we are to take account of ourselves and of one another in that light and link on in our thoughts and affections with what is of God.

F.E.S. I was wondering whether the reference to “we are his workmanship” would have the effect of giving us to understand that we are set up as competent and capable of undertaking good works?

A.J.G. I think so, surely. Then the section which follows is to help us to get on together, notwithstanding natural differences that we still carry with us; and that all depends upon what we were having this morning in Romans, our wholehearted committing ourselves to the death of Christ—the fact that He has died—and really holding in our hearts in honesty the import of His death, because all the differences come to an end if the persons in whom the differences are have died; and that is the whole point.

A.M.B. I was wondering in regard of what you were saying, whether you see it worked out in the last two Psalms of degrees, unity being stressed in Psalm 133 and the house or sanctuary of Jehovah seen in Psalm 134. That is to say, praise and blessing accruing to God is the result of the brethren in unity together.

A.J.G. Yes. You must have the unity first before you can get the service of God according to His desire.

E.C.L. Why do you think the matter of Jew and Gentile is brought in in this section?

A.J.G. I suppose because in the ways of God He was pleased to hedge about the Jew and give the Jew wonderful privileges, and they were not to have intercourse with the nations, so that there was a barrier between the two which had been of God and therefore there was the greatest possible difficulty in overcoming that in the assembly. It is to suggest, I think, that if the Jew and Gentile can move together rightly in the assembly then anybody can move together, whatever their natural differences may be.

E.C.L. That helps very much.

A.A.L. Is that the great test in the Acts, this matter of Jew and Gentile, and how Paul comes in with his ministry finally at Ephesus?

A.J.G. Yes, it is; and, of course, that is why Paul was so bitterly persecuted by the Jews, that his ministry was bringing the Jew down to the level of the Gentile, or rather raising them both up to a new level in Christ Jesus.

A.L.B. Is not the thought of one new man very important in that regard, that Christianity is not graffed on Judaism, neither is the Gentile exactly brought into Israel, but both are formed into one new Man?

A.J.G. Exactly. In the death of Christ Jesus the Jew is ended and the Gentile is ended, and then they are set up as one new man in the power of the Holy Spirit; and it really gets back, I think, to the wonderful influence which Christ personally can exert over men. It is the influence of Christ personally that really sets saints together and holds them together; of course, it is in the power of the Spirit.

J.J.McC. Could you help as to why it is “brought nigh by the blood of Christ”, but “the enmity in his flesh” is annulled?

A.J.G. I think in the first place we need to see that it is in Christ Jesus that we are brought nigh by the blood of the Christ. The blood is a necessity, speaking of death and of every claim of God being met; but to say ‘made nigh by the blood of Christ’ is incomplete; it is “in Christ Jesus” that we are become nigh by the blood of the Christ; and that is important. But that the enmity is annulled in His flesh refers to the fact that in His death man in flesh is ended, whether he is Jew or Gentile.

G.R.C. So that it is a very serious thing if enmity exists amongst the saints, is it not?

A.J.G. Yes, a very serious thing indeed. It is really our refusing the import of the cross of Christ.

F.A.F. So that we need to give increased attention to this combination of mercy and love in God. His mercy has overlooked nothing, but then love has wrought for its own pleasure.

A.J.G. I am sure that is right; and we need to keep before us what the standard is of what God can take pleasure in, that is, manhood in Christ Jesus. We are so apt to lower the standard and adopt our own ideas, but we want to get the divine standard before our minds.

F.A.F. So that Moses comes very close to it in the Red Sea song: “Thou by thy mercy hast led forth the people that thou hast redeemed; Thou hast guided them by thy strength unto the abode of thy holiness”. Exod 15: 13. That is very close to this, is it not?

A.J.G. Well, it is. That would link on with our being built together a habitation for God in the Spirit; and then he goes further in that song and says, “Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, The place that thou, Jehovah, has made they dwelling, The Sanctuary, Lord, that thy hands have prepared”, v 17.

J.O.S. Do you think we have lost by putting the greatest thoughts into the future only, whereas, according to this scripture, they are present?

A.J.G. I think that is right, because all that is future as to its actuality may be entered upon now in the power of the Earnest, save the actual glorified condition.

J.O.S. So that it would be a constant concern with us that we might be in the power of the death of Christ.

A.J.G. That is the thought, that we take time to consider and ask ourselves, what is the bearing upon oneself of the fact that Christ has died? It was not for Himself, it was for me; and let everyone take it up. It means that before God all that one is in the flesh has been ended, judicially ended, and taken out of the way. Therefore it should not be revived, it should never be brought into the assembly. The Spirit of God, holding us in our affections in relation to Christ where He is, will enable us to move on those lines, and to view one another according to what we are in Christ. So it says, “he is our peace”, that is, not peace with God, it is really peace with one another.

J.W.C. Does it help in Galatians where it says in the latter part, “For in Christ Jesus neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision; but new creation. And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace upon them and mercy, and upon the Israel of God”, Gal 6: 15-16?

A.J.G. Yes, exactly, that helps very much. Then earlier in that same epistle we get, “There is no Jew nor Greek; there is no bondman nor freeman; there is no male and female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus”, chap 3: 28. So that all those differences disappear in the death of Christ, and we are all one in Christ Jesus.

G.R.C. We can see how the negative side has been disposed of in the cross, although we need to consider it more, “having by it slain the enmity”. Would you say another word as to the positive side, “he is our peace”? It seems a remarkable statement—the Lord Himself!

A.J.G. It says in the next verse, “that he might form the two in himself into one new man, making peace”. We are set together, in the power of the Spirit, in Christ Himself as the One who influences us, indeed, in whose life we live. It is one new man—made them in Himself one new man—as it says in Colossians, “there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is everything, and in all”, chap 3: 11. I take it that means that if you had gone into an assembly, perhaps, at Ephesus, or somewhere else, and you had looked at the brethren there and what they were, you would say that brother was a Jew and that brother was a Greek, and that brother was a bondman, and that brother was a freeman. You would notice all these natural differences, and differences in social status too; but when actually you saw how they moved together you would say, It is Christ everything! You do not see the bondman or the freeman, or the Jew or the Greek, you see Christ everything and in all.

G.R.C. I think what you are saying about the influence of Christ is very practical and helpful. Speaking for oneself, one has thought too much of being in Christ doctrinally but, as you say, it involves coming under His personal influence.

A.J.G. Yes, I think so. He is the Head “from whom”, it says in chapter 4 which has been referred to. It says, “holding the truth in love, we may grow up to him in all things, who is the head, the Christ: from whom the whole body, fitted together … works for itself the increase of the body to its self-building up in love” (vv 15-16), but it is “from him”, that is, it is the influence that Christ wields over every member.

F.G.S. Then this great access into the presence of the Father is through the same glorious Person, is it not, Christ Jesus?

A.J.G. It is.

A.L.B. Does this help us as to matters of nationality and race, that we should not have any sensitiveness about persons being of another nationality; we are all one in Christ?

A.J.G. Exactly, it does.

M.L.J.M. Is that what is in mind when he refers to being “no longer strangers and foreigners, but ye are fellow-citizens of the saints, and of the household of God”?

A.J.G. Yes, that is so. He is addressing Gentiles now in the main. At the beginning of the chapter he addresses Gentiles, the emphatic “you”, and then the Jew, the emphatic “we” (v 3), and he carries that on to this paragraph (v 11 onwards) to show that we are one, made one. But then at the end of the chapter he concentrates on the “ye”, that is, that the assembly, while it involves Jew and Gentile (and at the beginning, of course, was entirely composed of Jews), is now almost entirely composed of Gentiles. How the grace of God is seen in that, that Gentiles are now the habitation of God in the Spirit.

E.C.L. Would you say why the thought of access by one Spirit is brought in?

A.J.G. That is to stress the unity, is it not, that the Jew did not partake of one Spirit and the Gentile of another Spirit. “We have both access by one Spirit to the Father”. So that is brought in in chapter 4 as another incentive or power for unity. It says, “There is one body and one Spirit, as ye have been also called in one hope of your calling”, chap 4: 4. The things which we enjoy in the Spirit we all enjoy in the same Spirit, and that is a very great bond of unity.

A.L.B. If it is not going back too far, may I ask a further question about “the heavenlies”? Would you make any distinction between “the heavenlies” and “heaven”? I was thinking of heaven as the place where Christ is, to which He has ascended up, whereas the heavenlies is an adjective, strictly, so that it is a wider thought and perhaps having a more present application to our spiritual position.

A.J.G. I think that is probably right. It says, “has raised us up together and made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”, and I think we touch that in the Spirit’s power. It does not mean that we are actually taken to heaven, but we touch “the heavenlies”. Now in chapter 3 the apostle brings in the thought of the mystery. He brings it in parenthetically because the whole of chapter 3, after the first verse, is a parenthesis, but he seems to bring it in in order to enlarge on that wonderful grace of God to us Gentiles, so that he says that the mystery is that those “who are of the nations should be joint heirs and a joint body and joint partakers of his promise in Christ Jesus by the glad tidings”. So that the Gentiles are in no sense inferior to the Jews, but we are brought in in the grace of God as joint-heirs, the Jews coming into it, of course, not as Jews but “in Christ Jesus”.

E.J.F. Why should it here be connected with promise, “joint partakers of his promise”? Do you normally connect the thought of the mystery with purpose?

A.J.G. I suppose we do. It is mystery in the sense that in God’s ways it has been kept secret until this day of the Spirit, and now it has been brought in, but even now it is something that only the spiritual mind can apprehend. The thought of the assembly as the body of Christ is a most wonderful thing, and it is an immense conception of divine wisdom that there should be a body, or a vessel, composed of millions of persons of every kind, and that they should all be made one in Christ in the power of the Spirit, and held in affection for Christ, as knowing the love of Christ.

G.R.C. Would you say that verses 5 and 6 might be regarded as the generally revealed truth of the mystery, “revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the power of the Spirit”? So far as these verses go, Peter had it revealed to him, I take it, in the vessel like a sheet that came out of heaven, but when Paul speaks earlier of understanding “my intelligence in the mystery of the Christ”, does that involve the full thought of purpose and the thought of union, and so on?

A.J.G. I think it does, and there is one man, at any rate, that is Paul, who had extraordinary intelligence in it. At the same time the fact that he had it shows that it is brought within the range of man—in the Spirit, of course. Is that what you thought?

G.R.C. Yes, and I wondered whether even Peter would be dependent on Paul for that side of it, whereas this more general truth of verses 5 and 6 was revealed to Peter, and he made it known to the apostles in Jerusalem.

A.J.G. I think that would be right.

A.L.B. The reference to promise in verse 6 seems to be connected with the gospel, “joint partakers of his promise in Christ Jesus by the glad tidings”. Would it be that whereas the mystery itself is connected with purpose, yet in the proclamation of the glad tidings they lead on to it, so that in a sense the fuller and deeper thought is promised in the glad tidings?

A.J.G. It is “by the glad tidings”, we partake in His promise in Christ Jesus by the glad tidings. I suppose His promise in Christ Jesus is the Spirit, and sonship in the Spirit, as far as I understand.

E.J.F. When he speaks of it again later in verse 9, he says, “to enlighten all” (speaking of the glad tidings) “with the knowledge of what is the administration of the mystery”. Why is it put that way? It is not exactly to enlighten all with the mystery.

A.J.G. No. I think it is to show that it is a practical matter, “the administration of the mystery”, that is, how it works.

E.J.F. Do you mean that there should be some measure of demonstration amongst us as to how the mystery does work out?

A.J.G. Yes, surely. That is what it says, “that now to the principalities and authorities in the heavenlies might be made known through the assembly the all-various wisdom of God, according to the purpose of the ages”. It must be a wonderful education to the angels to see the assembly functioning under the headship of Christ, to see all kinds of persons of natural differences thoroughly one under the influence of Christ, and moving in the greatest liberty and spiritual intelligence and affection Godward. Then, anything that arises, even evil, is dealt with in divine wisdom, or in the wisdom which the Lord supplies.

A.M.B. Would you say “the unsearchable riches of the Christ” link with the announcing among the nations of the glad tidings?

A.J.G. It just shows that in Paul’s mind the glad tidings was a very extensive thought. He has to start with repentance and remission of sins, but in his mind it goes right on to the full counsel of God, I think. That is what you get in Acts 20, that he reminds the elders at Ephesus of how he came in amongst them and how he commenced with repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ, and then preached the testimony of the grace of God, and the kingdom of God, and then the whole counsel of God. So there was an orderly presentation of the truth from the very beginning right up to the top. But I gather that he connects it in his own mind, the whole thing, with the glad tidings.

E.C.L. Would the appointment of elders in every city give the thought of the administration of the mystery? Not only was the word received but, if Paul left the city, there was that which was there to care for the interests of God in a way which would be according to the divine plan, and not according to human knowledge and wisdom?

A.J.G. Well, I suppose that would be part of the administration, but it seems to me that the glory of the administration is seen, not so much in individuals who have a certain position or office, but in what the assembly does as the assembly under the influence of Christ, both in the service of God and then in dealing with matters in the assembly.

E.C.L. I had not gone further in my mind than the thought that the elders were there to set the position in motion, so to speak. The assembly, I am sure, is the great thought, the assembly working, but there was left, was there not, in every city that representation of God to work its way out in a practical way in the sight of heaven, principalities and powers taking account of it?

A.J.G. The elders particularly represent, do they not, the element of care, spiritual care, not so much gift but care. I think Mr Stoney said² that the prosperity of a local company depends, not so much on how much gift it has, but on how much spiritual care is exercised in the company.

F.E.S. Does not Paul, referring to himself here at the beginning of this chapter as “I Paul, prisoner of the Christ Jesus, for you nations”, give a wonderful lead in the way in which he is prepared, as a Jew, to express such interest and affection and sacrifice for the nations? What a lead in the way of blending and unity, how much the difference between Jew and Gentile had been set aside in himself.

A.J.G. Exactly, and how he stood for the truth in Galatians at Antioch. But Peter, and even Barnabas, are carried away from the truth for the moment, and Paul stands for it, that there is to be no difference made between Jew and Gentile that the enmity has been removed and we are all one in Christ Jesus.

A.J.M. Then the thought of the building of the woman runs through these chapters, do you think? There was to be His counterpart, one who could fully answer to Him, so that there is a reference in verse 19 of this chapter to the knowing of the love of the Christ. Do you think any other but the assembly is so to know the love of Christ, except the one united to Him?

A.J.G. No, that is right.

F.G.S. Then is Paul bowed with the great sense of divine operations in the closing verses we read?—the great end that God has secured for Himself, “to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages”?

A.J.G. I thought so, and I felt the importance of this expression, “the assembly in Christ Jesus”. The King James’ Version reads, “to him be glory in the assembly by Christ Jesus”, but that rather destroys the force. The force is “the assembly in Christ Jesus”—it is to stress the wonderfully exalted character of this company, the assembly in Christ Jesus.

J.O.S. Morally of Him and like Him.

A.J.G. Yes, that is it. So when the woman was brought to the man she was entirely of Adam, there was nothing in her what had not come out of Adam. That is exactly what we are by divine workmanship, that what God works is of Christ and nothing else, so that we are heavenly, and of Christ, and therefore suited to Him.

A.L. Would you say a word as to the distinction between “through the assembly” in verse 10 and “in the assembly in Christ Jesus”?

A.J.G. Well, it is through the assembly that the all-various wisdom of God is made known, that is, the principalities and powers look on. Peter tells us that angels desire to look into these things, and we are told in 1 Corinthians 11 that sisters are to observe something because the angels are looking on. So the angels are taking a great interest in this masterpiece of God’s grace and wisdom, the assembly, and through the way the assembly acts the principalities and powers in the heavenlies learn the all-various wisdom of God. But then, “in the assembly” there is glory to God—“in the assembly in Christ Jesus” —because it is the company that is nearest to God and endowed with the greatest intelligence and therefore it is capable of appreciating and responding to the glory in which God is now known.

F.W.B. In the earlier reading you referred to the fact that the expression “in Christ Jesus” implied the idea of power. Do we get the full idea of power which is connected with the assembly’s response Godward?

A.J.G. I think so. It seems to me that it contemplates the assembly as energised by Christ Himself, in their movements in response to God. So that the affections and the intelligence Godward are derived from Christ, and He Himself gives impulse to the responses of the assembly Godward.

G.R.C. Would you say why it is “in the assembly in Christ Jesus” instead of “from” the assembly. Does it imply that the assembly is the vessel, but the individual expressions of praise would be in the dignity of sonship?

A.J.G. I think that is involved. It must be in the liberty and dignity of sonship, and yet it is in the assembly that these things are expressed. It is the glorious vessel, the dignified vessel. It has in mind, I think, what is in a sense public. It is not merely so many individuals, although it is composed of individuals, but an august company, the greatest example of divine workmanship in the universe.

A.A.B. Is that why there is just the reference to God having created all things, which is not developed, but there is great development in regard of this great vessel?

A.J.G. Yes, God who has created all things, as though to stress that He is the source of all and He must be the end in all.

A.A.B. And that the assembly is the greatest produce in His creative power?

A.J.G. Quite so.

A.A.L. Is it the vessel in which the worship of God is carried out? You referred to the public side. I wondered perhaps whether that would enter into it.

A.J.G. I think so; public in the sense that all the other families, I take it, will learn from the assembly and will take their lead from it.

G.R.C. It shows how important it is that we should understand headship, does it not, because the idea of the vessel means that every part of it, I suppose, is under the impulse of Christ?

A.J.G. “From whom”, it says in chapter 4.

E.J.F. Why should what is said in verse 20 just precede it? “But to him that is able to do far exceedingly above all which we ask or think, according to the power which works in us”? Is it to give us an understanding of the wonderful greatness of the vessel, lest we in our minds limit it?

A.J.G. I think also to give us to realise that if we will only yield ourselves to the Spirit there is no reason why we should not answer fully to God’s thoughts regarding the assembly. It is according to the power which works in us, and that is throwing us back on the Spirit, for all that we think and do.

F.C.M. Does that involve what we had this morning in Romans, in order that we might be completely free?

A.J.G. That is necessary to start with; complete liberation first, but then as free you need to be developed and enlarged.

J.O.S. Is there a sense in which the assembly is to be viewed not as part of new creation, but really as needing a new creation sphere to shine in? I wondered whether new creation really is the whole sphere in which Christ and the assembly will shine?

A.J.G. I do not know. I think new creation looks at the work of God. Maybe it refers to the work in the persons. The assembly is viewed as built according to chapter 4 of this epistle, the gifts are given for the edifying, it says—that is, the building—of the body of Christ. Building contemplates a process that goes on over a considerable period and is skilful and according to plan, you might say; whereas creation just stresses God’s wonderful power that He can create something out of nothing.

F.E.S. Does the end of chapter 3 give a wonderful climax to what began in chapter 2? “God … because of his great love wherewith he loved us”. Is that the beginning, so to speak, of these great operations, and now we reach the climax in the assembly, that there is glory to God in the assembly?

A.J.G. Well, that is it. God seems to have great pleasure in the thought of having man before Him for His pleasure and appreciative of Himself, so that he responds in intelligent worship, and the assembly is the great vessel in which that finds expression.

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